How was Panzer Dragoon playable on Xbox's Panzer Dragoon Orta?

Discussion in 'Sega Saturn Programming and Development' started by Dave Voyles, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. Dave Voyles

    Dave Voyles Newly Registered

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    Panzer Dragoon was hidden and playable within Orta, a 2002 release on the Xbox, I recently learned.

    But... I'm not sure how it was possible because Saturn emulation is notoriously difficult (and especially back then! and on an Xbox).

    So... did they take all of the assets and re-write the original?
     
  2. ShootTheCore

    ShootTheCore Newly Registered

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    Panzer Dragoon actually had a PC port release very close to the Saturn version. The Xbox is running the PC version on Orta.
     
  3. Dave Voyles

    Dave Voyles Newly Registered

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    I'm learning something new every day. Very good point!

    Thank you.
     
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  4. nonosto

    nonosto Enthusiastic Member

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    Note that, SEGA AGES 2500 game with lof of saturn game (die hard arcade for example) emulate Saturn....when you decompress iso from Die hard arcade you see all file from Saturn CD Rom, execept music....
     
  5. Anthaemia.

    Anthaemia. The Original VF3 Fangirl™

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    I've never heard any suggestion that the AGES 2500 version of Dynamite Deka (AKA Die Hard Arcade) was emulated before now! I'm not doubting it, but would the PS2 have been powerful enough to handle such an approach, or were the developers simply using the original Saturn/STV assets in a similar way to Virtua Fighter 2, where some of the arcade source code was missing, forcing the conversion team to adopt various workaround methods with whatever they could find to get everything running?
     
  6. Lost Dragon

    Lost Dragon Peppy Member

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    Going off memory, but i seem to remember some UK Xbox magazines moaning at the fact it was the PC version being emulated and not the superior Saturn version, when Orta was reviewed.

    But my towering collection of Xbox magazines went in for recycling years ago.:)
     
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  7. Anthaemia.

    Anthaemia. The Original VF3 Fangirl™

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    I always thought it was the Saturn version of Panzer Dragoon that had the inferior graphics, since it ran at a lower fixed resolution and frame rate without the option for additional texture filtering. While it's been years since I've last done a proper comparison, I do remember there being a few minor improvements on the PC (as with most of Sega's releases from the same era - their differences were subtle, but I seem to recall Virtua Fighter 2, Virtual On and Last Bronx also definitely having better visuals overall when pitched against their console counterparts).
     
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  8. Lost Dragon

    Lost Dragon Peppy Member

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    Again, it's purely off memory and indeed the reviewer of the Xbox game might of had rose tinted glasses on/a fondness for the saturn version, you never can tell :)

    I think, but don't quote me..it might of been the choppy frame rate that was the reason for the moan?

    I do remember PC HOTD being much better looking than the Saturn version, Panzer Dragoon you needed a 3D accelerator card (Diamond Edge or something).

    Sega often rushed what should of been flagship conversions to console..Drayton USA to Saturn, Sega Rally II to DC..

    Or were over stretched so gave them to exterior teams to convert..Time Warner handling Saturn Virtual Racing..
     
  9. Anthaemia.

    Anthaemia. The Original VF3 Fangirl™

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    I definitely remember The House Of The Dead offering minor improvements on PC, with much of the difference coming from its filtered textures and much better frame rate. As for Panzer Dragoon, this did indeed launch in a version that required the Diamond Edge card, but I've got a later reissue with less specific hardware requirements, which is probably what Sega used as the basis for the Xbox edition. To this day, it puzzles me as to why later Saturn sequels such as Bug Too! received PC ports, yet Panzer Dragoon Zwei or even PD Saga didn't.

    Daytona USA might not have been available from day one for the Saturn in Japan, though it was here in the UK, and along with Virtua Fighter, this was a downright embarrassment from AM2 (in terms of visuals, at least - the gameplay thankfully remained arcade perfect). Fortunately, we didn't have to wait long for VF2 and Virtua Cop to restore AM2's reputation, with these joining Sega Rally as the so-called "Big Three" conversions. If only Sega had been able to maintain that level of quality and quantity with later arcade-to-Saturn efforts...

    Virtua Racing being outsourced to Time Warner Interactive speaks volumes about how much Sega cared for representing Model 1 titles on Saturn after the reception to VF1, which only suffered because more time wasn't put into striving for accuracy. There's no reason why the Saturn couldn't have faithfully reproduced VF, VR or even a new edition of Star Wars Arcade with additional features taking such a thing beyond the earlier 32X treatment, as happened with Wing War, which missed the 32X entirely to become the vastly different Wing Arms.
     
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  10. Yakumo

    Yakumo Moderator Staff Member

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    I have an early build of Saturn Wing Arms that's quite different from the final.
     
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  11. Anthaemia.

    Anthaemia. The Original VF3 Fangirl™

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    I recall a magazine article from early in the Saturn's life where it was mentioned that Wing Arms started off as a direct port of Wing War, but Sega then decided to make changes as a way of showcasing their new console's power, similar to how Rad Mobile became Gale Racer, which switched out the original arcade machine's sprite-based enemy cars for polygonal models. I'm guessing that one of the first improvements made to Wing War was the use of texture mapping, and that the rest of the end product fell into place soon after. If only Sega had opted to give Virtua Racing a similar overhaul instead of simply outsourcing the Saturn conversion to Time Warner Interactive, but that's another matter entirely...
     
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  12. Yakumo

    Yakumo Moderator Staff Member

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    From memory the early version I have has less textures on the plane models, drastically different plane select and mission screen. The area scrolling during flight isn't well done. There's a split between the sky and sea o the horizon.

    There are probably other changes too. It's been many years since I played either.
    I do have some time over the next 5 days though so I may do a comparison video between the early and final builds.
     
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  13. Anthaemia.

    Anthaemia. The Original VF3 Fangirl™

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    This sounds fascinating! I don't recall such an early build of Wing Arms ever being shown in magazines, and I suspect the preview video footage on that VHS tape included with the first issue of SSM was simply from an incomplete PAL localised version, as it features some of the opening FMV sequence, which I'm guessing would only have been implemented much later into the overall development process. I'd definitely be interested to see a prototype with more significant differences...
     
  14. Lost Dragon

    Lost Dragon Peppy Member

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  15. Lost Dragon

    Lost Dragon Peppy Member

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  16. Yakumo

    Yakumo Moderator Staff Member

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    No worries. I've got time tomorrow. I'll get a video together.
     
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  17. Druid II

    Druid II Officer at Arms

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    What is the date on that Wing Arms prototype?
     
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  18. Yakumo

    Yakumo Moderator Staff Member

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    No idea. I'll let you know once I get it out to make the video.
     
  19. wombat

    wombat Site Supporter 2011,2013,2014,2015

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    Back in '08 someone released "WingArms-early_version(and_others).nrg"
    I guess this is the same version @Yakumo is referring too.
     
  20. Yakumo

    Yakumo Moderator Staff Member

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