Sonic X-treme - Cancelled Sega Saturn "nights" concept video

[ASSEMbler]

This is a video of the concept "nights" version of Sonic Xtreme for Sega
Saturn. Looking to produce a concept for a 3D sonic, a Sega USA team
used the nights engine to produce a concept for demonstration. Upon
hearing about the use of their engine, the Japanese team had a fit and
forced the adoption of a different engine, the so called "fish eye" version
that was later canceled as unworkable.

This bickering lead to the cancellation of the only "Killer App" for Sega Saturn.

This video is from the only copy of the game in existence, which sold for
nearly $3000 in 2006.

HQ version torrent is up:
http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/370...34.TPB.torrent

[Keiji Dragon]

Very neat. So thats what Mr. Wallis meant about using that particular engine. It actually looks fun.

I liked the BGM you choose for the video, ASSEMbler.

[ASSEMbler]

That music is on the game.

[hxc]

Nice to see :)

PS. Not to cause contraversy and just to let you know, the engine used here was Chris Coffin's engine, which is frequently seen in screenshots with Metal Sonic and Nack the Weasel and the like. Quote from my email conversations with Chris (it was also put onto wikipedia, by Chris, I will screenshot the email if I must):

"The boss engine never used the NiGHTS engine, never saw any code,tools or assistance from Sonic Team. Even one of AM2's own arcade teams from japan that was transplanted to the offices of STI and developed Dynamite Deka (known as Die HARD ARCADE) was not privelaged with any such knowledge or special support.
Teams had to pretty much fend for themselves which was evidenced by almost nonexistent 3rd party tools and support network for Saturn at that time.
A few months into Chris Coffin's involvment in Sonic Xtreme, the studio director Roger Hector showed Chris Coffin a playable pre release level of NiGHTS.
Chris Coffin fell in love with the game's look and feel of NiGHTS for Sonic Xtreme's boss levels, which may be why [[Yuji Naka]] himself threatened to quit Sega several months later because he assumed the Sonic Xtreme team had been given access to his game's source code and art which was not the case.
The boss level engine began to evolve into a game of its own using this new source of inspiration, trying to stay closer to its 2d roots by adopting a 3d but side scrolling viewpoint seen in games like Klonoa, Pandemonium and NiGHTS which was more fluid and lent itself to the fast moving gameplay of previous sonic tites.
The new boss engine gameplay prototype adopted a more pastel color scheme and organic flow of the inspirational NiGHTS game causing some divided opinions amongst team members inlcuding designer Chris Senn that originality was being compromised in the interest of appeasing Sega of Japan..""

If there is any other like, evidence that this was a Nights based game, I'll be happy to accept that though :)

[ASSEMbler]

Good to know

[GarethDE]

Hmm, what are the chances of getting this version of Sonic Extreme too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftNgzZ3Ovig

[ASSEMbler]

I think they are trying to redo / opensource that.

The fisheye gives me a giant headache.

[CrAzY]

So awesome. I am really lovin' the BGM. :love:

[WolverineDK]

Nice video. Just sad, so much shit has happened around Sonic Extreme.

[Bramsworth]

I can't beleive it sold for $3000. I don't remember if that auction from back then stated how much gameplay was in it but if anybody knew that this was as much as you're getting I can't believe someone would spend that much for just 30 seconds before you've practically played the whole game.

Of course this isn't from a collectors point of view so...

[GarethDE]

It's difficult to tell from the Flash video above, but it looks like STI were doing just fine without Naka's Nights engine if the one above really is Chris Coffin's creation. It even seems more fluid than the Nights engine, though of course with the addition of more effects, a more populated level and some NPCs with AI, I guess things could have been more balanced at the end.

On the other hand though since this is a demo and unlikely to have had any optimisation applied to it, maybe Naka should have been asking STI for their 3D engine and not the other way around? =P

[ASSEMbler]

Do me a favor and rate this on yourube, some disgruntled people are trying to give it a negative rating.

[Borman]

Originally Posted by ASSEMbler

I think they are trying to redo / opensource that.

The fisheye gives me a giant headache.

If you are talking about Project S, its a new game inspired by Sonic Xtreme, it wont directly resemble it in any way really.

[madhatter256]

Awesome. Thanks for sharing.

[Mark30001]

Thanks for sharing. :)

[Codeman]

Great vid!
Probably has been asked before but.....

Since this first concept used the Nights engine, does the Sonic in Xmas Nights have anything to do with this?
How about Sonic Jam's engine?

[APE]

As far as I know all of those were seperate.

[Taucias]

Originally Posted by hxc

Nice to see :)

PS. Not to cause contraversy and just to let you know, the engine used here was Chris Coffin's engine, which is frequently seen in screenshots with Metal Sonic and Nack the Weasel and the like. Quote from my email conversations with Chris (it was also put onto wikipedia, by Chris, I will screenshot the email if I must):

"The boss engine never used the NiGHTS engine, never saw any code,tools or assistance from Sonic Team. Even one of AM2's own arcade teams from japan that was transplanted to the offices of STI and developed Dynamite Deka (known as Die HARD ARCADE) was not privelaged with any such knowledge or special support.
Teams had to pretty much fend for themselves which was evidenced by almost nonexistent 3rd party tools and support network for Saturn at that time.
A few months into Chris Coffin's involvment in Sonic Xtreme, the studio director Roger Hector showed Chris Coffin a playable pre release level of NiGHTS.
Chris Coffin fell in love with the game's look and feel of NiGHTS for Sonic Xtreme's boss levels, which may be why [[Yuji Naka]] himself threatened to quit Sega several months later because he assumed the Sonic Xtreme team had been given access to his game's source code and art which was not the case.
The boss level engine began to evolve into a game of its own using this new source of inspiration, trying to stay closer to its 2d roots by adopting a 3d but side scrolling viewpoint seen in games like Klonoa, Pandemonium and NiGHTS which was more fluid and lent itself to the fast moving gameplay of previous sonic tites.
The new boss engine gameplay prototype adopted a more pastel color scheme and organic flow of the inspirational NiGHTS game causing some divided opinions amongst team members inlcuding designer Chris Senn that originality was being compromised in the interest of appeasing Sega of Japan..""

If there is any other like, evidence that this was a Nights based game, I'll be happy to accept that though :)

This is nothing to do with the boss engine though, according to Senn it is using the Nights engine:

Originally Posted by Chris Senn

Thanks for sharing that, ASSEMBler. If that is footage that accurately represents what was for sale recently by the nervous seller, that appears to be the code created by Chris Coffin's team during the "Project Condor" phase of Sonic Xtreme when Bernie Stolar provided the Nights engine from Sega of Japan to a small group at Sega Technical Institute (which, by then, was called Sega of America Product Development, or SOAPD... lol - FREEZE - SOAPD!). Two weeks this engine was available for them - then all production with it stopped when Naka Yuji got wind of it, at which point he vehemently opposed their use of his team's engine.

I had no involvement in this version, other than art directing Ross Harris in creating his Sonic and ring sprites. I can say with all confidence that this footage does not represent Sonic Xtreme. It can accurately be said to represent a build of one tiny phase of development, but that in no way says "Sonic Xtreme" to me - it's simply a terrain model with some rings and a Sonic sprite running around on it - and a backdrop with clouds behind it... that's not gameplay, it's a tech test of a Sonic sprite in the Nights engine. Good to see this - I'm curious about the "worlds" that are supposedly almost finished if they relate to this footage... because this is clearly not a world, nor is it anywhere near being finished! lol

http://www.senntient.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000047.html

[hxc]

The boss engine eventually became the base for the entire thing, after it was realized that Ofer's fisheye would not be able to be ported to the saturn, as shown by the screenshots of Coffin's engine I released myself recently (available http://www.projectsonic.com/1/ ). Although those show an engine with models.....

I'm suuprised actully, it may well be on the nights engine, I'll have to try and get that confirmed either way from a couple of people.

Thanks for that :)

That was a very old quote from waay back when all the drama first started, plus the fact that Senn was never directly involved with this version, he worked almost exclusively on the fisheye with Ofer., if you read the latest Edge article, which is on X-Treme, it says they had the engine for a couple of weeks, with quotes from Mike Wallis and Chris Senn... I'm still not convinced this was made with the NiD Engine... is 2 weeks enough to make something like this?

Direct quote from the article says they had it for 2 or 3 weeks where they got familerized with the engine., before Naka threatend to quit and all. I guess the demo could possibly have been done in that time. I'll keep an open mind till I get a real answer.

I'll get back to you with confirmation....have emailed Mike Wallis, producer to get a confirmed answer to this.

[SaviourDC]

Man that runs really well on the Saturn..... I think I can understand a possible reason why Sonicteam would be pissed about this...that would be that some other company making the first true 3D Sonic game.