Sega Saturn HDTV cable?

[GaijinPunch]

Interesting. Something to do with RGB vs. non-RGB SCART sockets you think? Or something else?

Actually, I think it would be SCART vs. non-SCART RGB. Possibly a Euro export model made in Japan? Cheaper to have both of them on all TVs then only one on certain models.

[Yakumo]

You could be right there but Toshiba TVs are made in the UK (British ones) Toshiba have always been a great TV to have for NTSC stuff. Even their videos have NTSC playback !!

Yakumo

[Qjimbo]

Japan does not use SCART. They use, as you stated, 21-pin RGB. AFAIK, it's only a couple of wires that have to be switched for it to work.

And as I stated as well a couple of posts before that noone seemed to notice ;)

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

So, I wonder why both of the Japanese RGB cables that I got were wired as SCART cables then.


...word is bondage...

[LocalH]

On the Genesis, I would say it would be worth it because its non-RGB video output is low quality, but not on the Saturn. Maybe you disagree, maybe you're more hardcore than me, maybe you have more money to burn on crap like this.

It'd be a trade-off, because many games relied on the blurry composite output to create the illusion of a higher color count. For instance, if you have a graphic made up of alternating black and transparent columns of pixels, when viewed on a stock NTSC Genesis you will see a pseudo-transparency effects where the video encoder has blurred the image. So, yeah, you'll get better color quality and better sharpness, but in return you'll be exposing more of the hardware's true color count (and such dither patterns will instead appear as what they really are).

[Lyris]

I was under the impression that the Saturn DID have an (unused) HDTV output mode.

The documentation is confusing though. Take a look at the VDP1 developer documentation which is filled with references to HDTV.

http://koti.kapsi.fi/~antime/sega/fi...-R3-061694.pdf

Strangely, it makes reference to this "HDTV" mode having a max resolution of 352x240. Eh?

[lvsteven]

I was under the impression that the Saturn DID have an (unused) HDTV output mode.

The documentation is confusing though. Take a look at the VDP1 developer documentation which is filled with references to HDTV.

http://koti.kapsi.fi/~antime/sega/fi...-R3-061694.pdf

Strangely, it makes reference to this "HDTV" mode having a max resolution of 352x240. Eh?

Strange because that isnt even EDTV:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhance...ion_television

[Rogue]

I was under the impression that the Saturn DID have an (unused) HDTV output mode.

The documentation is confusing though. Take a look at the VDP1 developer documentation which is filled with references to HDTV.

http://koti.kapsi.fi/~antime/sega/fi...-R3-061694.pdf

Strangely, it makes reference to this "HDTV" mode having a max resolution of 352x240. Eh?

I remember the Saturn "High Resolution" being 704x480, no? (yeah, it's "wide" if compared to N64 and PS)

Also, why people bother when someone says that 640x480 is HD?

How old are you? If you don't remember, several sizes were called HD before the existence of 1080p. Almost everyone here should have lived before the whole "FullHD" thing.

When I'm talking about N64 it's totally right to say that HD is 640x480. The Expansion Pak provides "HD mode" in some games. It's obvious that it's not related to 50 inch displays.

The strange thing is a "human being", being unable to identify the difference and brag about this. And worse, applying 2011 concepts in a 1994 thing. That's stange, and not very smart. IMHO.

[Druid II]

The Saturn DOES have a hi-vision / EDTV modes, which is the only way to get 480p from the machine (31khz 640x480 in EDTV, 704x480 in Hi-Vision). Regular high-resolution on the console is 15khz 480i. Understand that hi-vision was bleeding-edge-experimental when the Saturn was introduced in 1994, so its probably not the same thing as todays HDTV modes. EDTV output seems to be the same as VGA from what I gathered.

Three problems with it, though:
- no games used either modes, because
- these modes probably need their own special cables, because
- regular TV cables display these modes totally out of sync (they are not standard 15khz signals).

However I don't even know if the Saturn video encoder IC can even handle these signals to begin with: it's possible that the Sony CXA1645 cannot handle non-standard-15khz signals, which could be another reason why these display modes make the screen go bonkers.

EDTV mode is 31khz monitor mode using 320x480 or 640x480 resolutions, so it may just be possible to mode a VGA out to the console by tapping the r/g/b/sync signals directly from the VDP2. You would still need a sync splitter since the VDP2 outputs combined vertical/horizontal sync.
For Hi-vision modes (352x480 and 704x480), I have no clue what you can do. Wasn't that some sort of analog HD mode? Chances are, you won't find any monitor that can handle that kind of input.

Do note, that even if you can get a functional VGA out cable for the Saturn, either from the AV port or by directly soldering to the video chip output, there are NO official products to use these modes. As far as I know, there is a grand total of TWO homebrew titles that use these modes, out of those one is a resolution test mode that just cycles through all available modes. Also, based on that homebrew iso, no (publically released) emulators can handle any of these progressive modes either.

[Xeauron]

I remember the Saturn "High Resolution" being 704x480, no? (yeah, it's "wide" if compared to N64 and PS)

Also, why people bother when someone says that 640x480 is HD?

How old are you? If you don't remember, several sizes were called HD before the existence of 1080p. Almost everyone here should have lived before the whole "FullHD" thing.

When I'm talking about N64 it's totally right to say that HD is 640x480. The Expansion Pak provides "HD mode" in some games. It's obvious that it's not related to 50 inch displays.

The strange thing is a "human being", being unable to identify the difference and brag about this. And worse, applying 2011 concepts in a 1994 thing. That's stange, and not very smart. IMHO.

Alright, I hear what you're saying. Long story short, N64 never was ever considered high definition graphics. We used to call it the fog horn because of the bottle neck Nintendo placed in there from the start. At the time, far better graphics were achievable using simple PC hardware.

All I'm saying is that I never, and it was known, heard the N64 ever referred to as HD graphics or the pinnacle of graphic progress at the time.

[Druid II]

Every new console with cutting-edge technology was called high definition at one point. First gen Megadrives had HIGH DEFINITION GRAPHICS written on the case too. It's a buzzword, not unlike, say, html5.

[Rogue]

Alright, I hear what you're saying. Long story short, N64 never was ever considered high definition graphics. We used to call it the fog horn because of the bottle neck Nintendo placed in there from the start. At the time, far better graphics were achievable using simple PC hardware.

All I'm saying is that I never, and it was known, heard the N64 ever referred to as HD graphics or the pinnacle of graphic progress at the time.

Well, you should read more instruction booklets, then... Maybe game menus.

Where you were when the default resolutions were 1024x768? And 800x600?

If you want to use another console, you can read the words high resolution in the Mega Drive! ok, j/k

I know that people tend to forget the things that happened just yesterday, five or six year ago. So, swallow your pride and don't be so silly.
640x480 was a massive resolution someday in history.

[Alchy]

http://www.gizmag.com/first-bbc-tele...oadcast/13397/

"the BBC broadcasts that commenced on November 2, 1936, from Alexandra Palace in London were heralded as the world’s first, public, regular, high-definition television broadcasts."

Obviously, this just shows how relative the term is.

[karsten]

people must remember that most tv broadcasts were at 512x resolution, so 640x or 704x were actually HD for the time

[APE]

people must remember that most tv broadcasts were at 512x resolution, so 640x or 704x were actually HD for the time

And they're not now which is all that is terribly relevant considering this 5 year old topic originally wanted to interface a Saturn with a (presumably) >720p TV.

Obviously today's "HD" and yesterdays "HD" aren't the same, thus they cannot be cleanly interfaced in a contemporary fashion. Would you want to dump 1920s petrol into your brand new car? Hell no, but I bet you could recondition the fuel for such a purpose.

[Taucias]

I think the only reason people criticize the missing Bridge on Shun's stage is when Sega fan boys go on about how the Saturn could push 750k polys/sec with VF3.

[Druid II]

I think the only reason people criticize the missing Bridge on Shun's stage is when Sega fan boys go on about how the Saturn could push 750k polys/sec with VF3.

Technically the vdp could do 1 million polys/sec, but the machine lacked overall cpu power to move them. Maybe a Zyrinx-style demo, like that 32x one, could've done it.

VF2 on Saturn only looked crap if you run it side-by-side to the arcade machine.

[takeshi385]

guys ,5 years, 2 months 18 days too late

[Baseley09]

This thread is retarded looking back, but then again technology has moved on and we are all the more familiar with it.