funky Atomiswave pcb (non-cart version of Rumblefish).

[devilredeemed]

I got this in the post today. I refrained from posting any info on this until it was in my hands.

these are not my pictures but those taken by the person who sent it to me (he didn't know what it was but thought it was a boot).
I will take pictures of it myself just that my camera skills are shit (I took some they came out fuzzy).
http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?l...sc000181xp.jpg
http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?l...sc000160sm.jpg
http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?l...sc000177qm.jpg
http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?l...sc000192nt.jpg

as you can see, the bit that fits into the AW is extractable. the underside has rubber/thick foam 'cover'

I tried it out - works perfectly. this is the only copy of Rumble Fish I have and have only played it at the arcades a couple of times so I can't say if it's at all different (probably final release build but I can't be sure).

cool little thing. but what is it?

edit: here's a picture that came out alright to show how the 'top bit' fits onto the 'bottom bit':

[GaijinPunch]

Probably should go into the arcade forum. But, that's pretty cool. Is it a boot? I didn't think we'd see shit like this for a while.

[devilredeemed]

if anyone with 'teh powers' wants to put this in the arcade section please go ahead.

I'm 99% sure this isn't a boot. it's pretty much one of a kind in so far as what's openly available. I picked it up by fluke (found someone talking about this strange AW game, on a french forum), and this is the original Rumble Fish which came out a while ago, and nothing of the sort has since been seen. AW hasn't even been dumped yet from what I understand.

[Yakumo]

move complete :thumbsup:

Yakumo

[Calpis]

Are you asking if it's a bootleg or not? I've never seen a AW cart PCB before but it's unlikely original games contain a Xilinx CPLD & FPGA *&* FlashROM, original game data should be on "mask" ROMs and all logic should be in discrete IC and custom ASIC, not field programmable parts. Xilinx PLD (and Xilinx bootlegs *!*) are prevailant in China because of their price, elsewhere they're not commonly found in production hardware. My first thought would be that it's a bootleg. However, the PCB quality is good, today it's hard to judge whether or not it's from Japan or China because quality PCBs are becoming cheaper to manufacture, 15 years ago there's no way this would have come from China. If you can determine if there's a way to program these FlashROM in system, there's a slim chance you may have some sort of preview cartridge (don't count on it though.)

[devilredeemed]

interesting stuff kyuusaku. thanks. so in your estimation this is a bootleg (edit: ok you clarified that you think so)? I don't know much at all about these things, but it does look extremely well put together. if it is a bootleg it would seem its the only one to surface upto now - this thing was discovered quite a few months ago and nothing of the sort, to my knowlege has been seen since. maybe it's a proto boot? what the bootleggers where considering putting out into the market if the AW took off?
I wish it where possible to have concrete answers with stuff like this, especially since it was made relatively recently.

[Borman]

I doubt its a bootleg. Its hard to create a boot when the games havent even been dumped or unencrypted

[devilredeemed]

btw - the cart that's next to the pcb is a game called Demolish Fist and is the standard size these carts come in. this pcb would not fit into such cart.

edit: could this help get the atomiswave dumped or does it depend on other variants? more specifically, for this to have been made - presupposing it came from a bootlegger - did it have to be dumped in the first place?

[Calpis]

I doubt its a bootleg. Its hard to create a boot when the games havent even been dumped or unencrypted

It's HARDER to create a bootleg when someone else hasn't handed you pseudo decryption code or binaries but in China they have work ethics. Who do you think "unencrypt"s and dumps games in the first place? The scene always turns first to the bootlegs for a chance at a easy crack (Look to PSX scene which thrived off HK & Thai defeation routines) I think that Chinese professional engineers (who do it for the money, not to contribute to a GPL project ) are far more inclinded to crack some encryption than an enthusiast who works on MAME during his free time and out his own pocket. It's a fact that the arcade ROM "scene" is the work of relatively few people whom are almost exclusively hobbiests, there are MILLIONs of people (professionals) capable of dumping a TSOP ROM without a second thought and perhaps even more capable of decyphering a truth table.

It should also be pointed out that just because a game hasn't appeared online for ROM kiddiez to download yet doesn't mean it hasn't been dumped for select circles. Often ROMs stay in those circles for months or even years until some support is added for the particular games.

Again, the game in question uses FlashROMs, retail games don't, period. If the game wasn't dumped, with what were the Flashroms programmed? Or does he have an official Sammy AW "flashcart"? :P (Which I mentioned as the only other possibility I can comprehend, but I see no ISP interface in sight)

edit: could this help get the atomiswave dumped or does it depend on other variants? more specifically, for this to have been made - presupposing it came from a bootlegger - did it have to be dumped in the first place?

Probably not, bootleggers themselves like anyone else don't want other bootleggers ripping off their work, normally it'd almost be safe to assume that all the logic is secure. However, I don't know how secure the FPGA fusemap bit code is on the configuration ROM, commonsense would tell me that it is, but you never know until you know.

[devilredeemed]

how about if it where made to show at an exhibition? what does an ISP interface look like?

what is this bit in your opinion? http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4122/s30112386fz.jpg
its extractable and has pins where it goes connected. I can take more pictures. could this not be the connector you are talking about?

[devilredeemed]

alright:
I took the rubber pad from the bottom of the pcb and there was no writing or anything present.

here's a picture of the pins from the main pcb that connects to the small bit that plugs into the AW. is this not an isp connector? I have no clue.
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/7048/s30112371yw.jpg

the part that connects the pcb to the AW looks identical to the ones found in AW carts, so this caught my attention.
I opened up a Dolphin Blue cart and snapped a crappy picture (I don't know how to take better pictures :( ):
http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/5324/s30112385ds.jpg

as you can (or cannot) see - this cart holds 2 chips found in the PCB:
a Xilinx one and another (I maybe there was 2 of the same) that sais Malaysia on it.
so, what can we draw from this? sammy uses some of the same chips found on the PCB, how likely a coincidence is this?
and there is a connector that connects from the pcb to the bit that plugs into the MoBo - what is this connector?

edit: god that picture of the dolphin blue pcb is really bad. I suck.

[Calpis]

Well, it is a little surprising that Sammy uses a Xilinx CPLD, but as you can see, an official production game has Sammy branded mask ROMs. That "Malaysia" IC is a ROM, perhaps even a Flashrom which would be a first in my book, that's not what's important though, Flashrom can be an exception (just like EPROM in original Neo Geo games) but never the norm.

No, your board doesn't have any ISP capabilities, if it did it would be an obvious enhancement to a normal cartridge.

The connector that connects to the "normal" AW connector is simply an edge, it had to be extended to reach the system. If you want to know what the "normal" AW connector is called, you're on your own. It looks similar to a modern SCSI connector though.

What you need to do is compare your Rumble Fish to another person's, it MAY have the same FPGA (Xilinx "Spartan" IC) which would mean your game could be a preproduction copy or a bootleg. Even if the bootlegger didn't make the PCB, it's very common to swap ROMs from an old game for a more valueable or new game.

[devilredeemed]

great. thanks man.

[devilredeemed]

anyone have a Rumble Fish AW cart they wouldn't mind opening up to take an inside look?
I'm convinced this is a test cart/proto just from build quality and the fact that the bits it's made from are of the same brand as those in regular carts. add that to the fact that there's been no word on a single boot ever being made nor the games dumped, and a member of another site contacting me about having played this pcb or an identical one - before the actual release on Atomiswave of Rumble Fish, and it just adds up.

would ebay strike me down if I auctioned it off there?