Well, the Revolution controller was revealed...

[Jasonkhowell]

Ah, it's nice to see that we have a decent discussion. Anywho, I want to bring up a few things:

1. How the hell are the third parties going to adapt to something like this? Main problem I see with the controler so far is the cost and difficulty it will be to create games based around the censor. The way I see it, the big boys of the industry will be the only ones who will be able to effectivly use the motion censor. Even then how will the developers who have never worked on this sort of thing be able to suddenly create a motion censor game when all they have worked on before is creating traditional games.

2. What about the third parties who don't want to use the motion censor? How will Nintendo have other developers create games for their limited controller when they can do the same game on another console without controller issue getting in the way?

3. How much will the development kits cost for it, and do the developers have the knowledge to effectivly create a flawless motion game when motion detection in games is a brand new concept. How will smaller developer firms hope to create games for it?

4. How will this effect different areas of gaming that don't want to use the motion detection? Here's a small look at the difficulties this may produce:


FPS: How will you be able to move around? By the looks of it, it would be like controlling a FPS on the PSP.

RPG, Puzzle Games, Racing games: Not too much of a problem, everything seems fine with it.

Adventure/Action: Depends on the game. Even then, games like that tend to use a fair ammount of buttons to control the camera.

Ports: One big issue that may drive third parties away. If the game they use needs a fair ammount of buttons to use, why bother porting it to the Revolution?

Older games: Nintendo seems to have had the NES in mind, but what about the SNES and N64 games? Why not 4 buttons instead of 2 Gameboy-Like buttons?

Fighting: No way in hell without a extra attachment, unless you like your fighting games easy and button mashers.


So, in my view, it looks like Nintendo is heading the same way they did with the Gamecube, DS, and N64: Making them the primary publisher and developer of the main games of the system, while making it difficult for third parties. Damn it, this was something Nitendo needs to fix, not make worse...

[Sinjd]

Ah, it's nice to see that we have a decent discussion. Anywho, I want to bring up a few things:

1. How the hell are the third parties going to adapt to something like this? Main problem I see with the controler so far is the cost and difficulty it will be to create games based around the censor. The way I see it, the big boys of the industry will be the only ones who will be able to effectivly use the motion censor. Even then how will the developers who have never worked on this sort of thing be able to suddenly create a motion censor game when all they have worked on before is creating traditional games.

Nintendo are saying that the point behind the revolution is that its simple and cheap to develop for, and are welcoming proposals from people (said in the keynote, and mentioned on IGN)
2. What about the third parties who don't want to use the motion censor? How will Nintendo have other developers create games for their limited controller when they can do the same game on another console without controller issue getting in the way?

there is a standard controller attachment that the remote slots into, allowing for standard gaming dynamics if you so please

read here - http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=60917

3. How much will the development kits cost for it, and do the developers have the knowledge to effectivly create a flawless motion game when motion detection in games is a brand new concept. How will smaller developer firms hope to create games for it?

Motion sensing is far from new, Eyetoy and similar devices have been around for a while. Aditionally a device of similar technical ability for the PC (made by Gyration) is available and that works just fine.

4. How will this effect different areas of gaming that don't want to use the motion detection? Here's a small look at the difficulties this may produce:

FPS: How will you be able to move around? By the looks of it, it would be like controlling a FPS on the PSP.

you move using the analogue stick attachment and look around using the remote. They showed this at TGS with a metroid prime demo, impressions of it can be seen at IGN, Gamespot, 1up.com, etc

RPG, Puzzle Games, Racing games: Not too much of a problem, everything seems fine with it.

Adventure/Action: Depends on the game. Even then, games like that tend to use a fair ammount of buttons to control the camera.

Ports: One big issue that may drive third parties away. If the game they use needs a fair ammount of buttons to use, why bother porting it to the Revolution?

again i point to the controller addon, where the remote slots into it

Older games: Nintendo seems to have had the NES in mind, but what about the SNES and N64 games? Why not 4 buttons instead of 2 Gameboy-Like buttons?

controller addon

Fighting: No way in hell without a extra attachment, unless you like your fighting games easy and button mashers.

controller addon again, or some unique usage, such as holding two remotes one in each hand to represent your punches and punching, kinda like Gametrack but without the wires. PUNCHOUT REVOLUTION anyone?

So, in my view, it looks like Nintendo is heading the same way they did with the Gamecube, DS, and N64: Making them the primary publisher and developer of the main games of the system, while making it difficult for third parties. Damn it, this was something Nitendo needs to fix, not make worse...

Well the developers all had nice stuff to say, hell even Kojima was there saying how its "what i've been waiting for", the guys from square enix too, the DQ designer, guys from THQ, EA, etc etc ... they all see the possibilities..

Sure nintendo probably have an uphill battle, but this presents all sorts of possibilities for gaming, you just need to think outside the box a little... also the thing is SENSITIVE you dont need to wave it around like a madman (as can be determined by the hands on impressions at IGN, 1up.com etc) the video clip that nintendo released was overexagerated to get the point across. If it just showed some dude sat there flicking his wrist a little it wouldn't be very interesting...

I really wish people would read all available info before making wild accusations and passing judgement... *sigh*

[Jasonkhowell]

Sure nintendo probably have an uphill battle, but this presents all sorts of possibilities for gaming, you just need to think outside the box a little... also the thing is SENSITIVE you dont need to wave it around like a madman (as can be determined by the hands on impressions at IGN, 1up.com etc) the video clip that nintendo released was overexagerated to get the point across. If it just showed some dude sat there flicking his wrist a little it wouldn't be very interesting...

I really wish people would read all available info before making wild accusations and passing judgement... *sigh*

This brings up another point: Why should we PAY EXTRA for something that should have been there in the first place? Why should we have to pay for a add-on when it should have been on the controller in the first place.

Please think a little, Mr. Person.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Erm no? Apart from the DS i cant think of any nintendo system that had any homebrew following. Maybe the gameboy might have something.

The Gameboy and gameboy Advance have a *TON* of homebrew. Easily more than any other systems out there. Probably more than all other systems combined. including the GP32.

But as far as home systems go, nah. Nintendo's systems are actually probably the weakest as far as homebrew communities go.

Not that a homebrew community should there be one (and there probably will) would be likely to make real great use of the motion sensors in this controller anyway. Homebrewers have a bad track record when it comes to innovative use of peripherals. I haven't seen what they're doing on the DS, but I know that almost nothing has been done by the homebrewers with any of the Dreamcast's great peripherals. I have an idea for an off-the-wall game that uses the lightgun with a mic plugged into the back of it, but I'm a bit scrared to jump into Dreamcast programming. I'm not a trained programmer at all. In C, I've only done a few things (one game) on my computer and two for Neo Geo Pocket. A Dreamcast game seems like a huge leap, but I think that one day I definitely will. I also want to make a music visualization-based 2-D shooter.


...word is bondage...

[Sinjd]

This brings up another point: Why should we PAY EXTRA for something that should have been there in the first place? Why should we have to pay for a add-on when it should have been on the controller in the first place.

Please think a little, Mr. Person.

Well the analogue attachment comes IN THE BOX (Iwata said so in the keynote), as for the shell, there is a possiblity that it will too, although it wasn't mentioned (in the keynote)

I love how you ASSUME that it doesnt come with it... i personally dont remember them saying that in the speech... equally it could come with a GC pad, id does have GC ports after all. Granted im making an assumption myself, but i prefer to be optimistic rather than pessimistic... but hey I know this is nintendo and its "fashionable" to bash them

[Paulo]

yeah because no one bashed the x360 and the ps3... Everyone gets bashed in here but clearly there are some people drawn more to each of the consoles.

[Jasonkhowell]

Well the analogue attachment comes IN THE BOX (Iwata said so in the keynote), as for the shell, there is a possiblity that it will too, although it wasn't mentioned (in the keynote)

I love how you ASSUME that it doesnt come with it... i personally dont remember them saying that in the speech... equally it could come with a GC pad, id does have GC ports after all. Granted im making an assumption myself, but i prefer to be optimistic rather than pessimistic... but hey I know this is nintendo and its "fashionable" to bash them

What the hell is wrong with you? I'm talking about the paying for a add-on for extra buttons needed to play things such as fighters. Not once did I say the analog stick wouldn't be added.

Oh, and for the record kiddo: I have never bashed Nintendo this badly. In my eye, all three of the companies are worthy of the gaming market. Is it too hard to express a opinion about something you dislike because it's, well, fucking stupid? I love Nintendo and the concept of the controller. However, as it stands: Good concept, but very bad design.

[Sinjd]

yeah because no one bashed the x360 and the ps3... Everyone gets bashed in here but clearly there are some people drawn more to each of the consoles.

yeah, sorry that was probably an overstatement, here anyway ^_^ ... I'm spending too much time on Gamefaqs ._.

I need help... :smt100

What the hell is wrong with you? I'm talking about the paying for a add-on for extra buttons needed to play things such as fighters. Not once did I say the analog stick wouldn't be added.

Oh, and for the record kiddo: I have never bashed Nintendo this badly. In my eye, all three of the companies are worthy of the gaming market. Is it too hard to express a opinion about something you dislike because it's, well, fucking stupid? I love Nintendo and the concept of the controller. However, as it stands: Good concept, but very bad design.

The extra buttons would come on the controller addon, which unless nintendo are stupid would come with the console, it would be a TERRIBLE business decission to release it in "neutered" form like that... Sorry for getting so bleh, it was unintentional, but i've been all over the web reading forums and people just seem to be baselessly bashing the design without reading anything first (im not saying you did that, although my original reply to your post makes it look that way (should have clarified myself)...

I'm just seeing a lot of potention here, cos I dunno, i can see how this could be used in my head, and to be honest it excites me, and I haven't felt that in a while for video games, sure I like playing the latest release or w/e.. but I always remember the first day I played an import n64 rented from my local vg store with mario64, i was so in awe... and just thinking about the possibilities brings some of that feeling back.

I'm taking it all far too seriously haha... Anyways, sorry if i was being a bit of a ****

[Tachikoma]

Serious question, what is doing the motion tracking? because it looks like a cheapo IR emitter stuck to the front of the "controller"

[Jasonkhowell]

yeah, sorry that was probably an overstatement, here anyway ^_^ ... I'm spending too much time on Gamefaqs ._.

I need help... :smt100



The extra buttons would come on the controller addon, which unless nintendo are stupid would come with the console, it would be a TERRIBLE business decission to release it in "neutered" form like that... Sorry for getting so bleh, it was unintentional, but i've been all over the web reading forums and people just seem to be baselessly bashing the design without reading anything first (im not saying you did that, although my original reply to your post makes it look that way (should have clarified myself)...

I'm just seeing a lot of potention here, cos I dunno, i can see how this could be used in my head, and to be honest it excites me, and I haven't felt that in a while for video games, sure I like playing the latest release or w/e.. but I always remember the first day I played an import n64 rented from my local vg store with mario64, i was so in awe... and just thinking about the possibilities brings some of that feeling back.

I'm taking it all far too seriously haha... Anyways, sorry if i was being a bit of a ****

Understandable. I, myself, have had a horrible day. Dealing with shitty comments on both sides of the market at a gaming store is NOT fun.

[Sinjd]

Serious question, what is doing the motion tracking? because it looks like a cheapo IR emitter stuck to the front of the "controller"

How it works (from what i have read) is that you place a sensor on your tv, its a small thing (apparently, havent actually seen a picture). The IR looking thing is where the emitter on the controller is, it sends signals to the receiver, which is able to judge where you are in both vertically, horizontally and distance from the tv, as well as being able to judge the angle at which the controler is at both vertically and horizontally. So you could spin the controller in either direction and it would know. The recieiver can also tell when you are out of area, as apparently one of the tech demo's would signify this with an arrow pointing which direction you should move to get back where you should be.

Understandable. I, myself, have had a horrible day. Dealing with shitty comments on both sides of the market at a gaming store is NOT fun.

>_< ... sorry man

[AnalogWinter]

I don't really know what to say about the controller. At first, it looks like the dream of all set-top box fanboys.

The motion sensor and layout is very intriging but still can't be to sure of enjoying a game using this remote like setup.

The sensor reminds me of 'Action Max', a very bad but fun VCR cassette tape based game system from the late 80's.


^_^_^

[sean]

As I have stated before. This controller is part of the revolution known as AUGMENTED REALITY. If you don't know what that is, then you need to do a search and find out. The shape of the controller has little to do with this functionality. I remember when the mouse started being used for PCs. It was only for engineers, but later on they found it worked well for many other applications. Now a mouse is the standard for FPS pc games. Wait until you see the possibilities, new game genres are sure to pop up. Remember, we as humans are resistant to change. You'll see.

[KIT786]

I think it will do what its ment to do, attract non-gamer to gaming ( well when they see games in action and it being used)

[Jasonkhowell]

As I have stated before. This controller is part of the revolution known as AUGMENTED REALITY. If you don't know what that is, then you need to do a search and find out. The shape of the controller has little to do with this functionality. I remember when the mouse started being used for PCs. It was only for engineers, but later on they found it worked well for many other applications. Now a mouse is the standard for FPS pc games. Wait until you see the possibilities, new game genres are sure to pop up. Remember, we as humans are resistant to change. You'll see.

Thing is, you still only thinking about one option. For both sides to work (The sides being the game companies that want to produce multi-million dollar games that may or may not have sensor support) it needs to be designed for both purposes. Currently, the Revolution remote is only really accessable to the companies who want sensor support.

For new technology to work, you need to slowly expand and weed out certain designs. Problem is, the Revolution controller is just a bit too overboard on new technology for it to work with both casual players, gamers, and developers.

[arsenal]

Erm no? Apart from the DS i cant think of any nintendo system that had any homebrew following. Maybe the gameboy might have something.

Gameboy/ color has a hUGE corner on the web, (maybe bigger & comparable in size to NESDEV) to visit headed by some German guy, find it. SNES even has a lot going and N64 is only really having been exploited enough to catch up with the rest, and then there's cd64. I could go on and on but I should stop.

Also the "some dude flicking his wrist a little" was in there too in the video if you noticed.

[ArcticCrash]

Erm no? Apart from the DS i cant think of any nintendo system that had any homebrew following. Maybe the gameboy might have something.

Wow. How is it not possible to be on a gaming message board and not know about the pretty big Gameboy homebrew community. And the DS has a pretty damn good one going, they've even got a SCUMM emulator or whatever (for playing the Monkey Islands) working on it. NES, SNES both have a pretty small homebrew, with the NES mainly being just ROM hacks, and the Gamecube has a modest one due to things like the Phantasy Star Online exploit allowing people to run homebrew code on it.

[arsenal]

<-- avatar is a good description of me right now.

Q: What does the conventional controller cradle/shell do?

A: This add-on makes it possible to play Revolution games in a more traditional manner. The shell is designed to look and function like accepted "regular" controllers, such as the Wave Bird. After its bottom casing is removed, the Revolution's free-hand-style remote is inserted into a gap in the middle of the controller shell. Gamers can then use the shell as they would a traditional controller, with a notable difference: the pointer remote's sensory functionality remains active. As a result, gamers get the best of both worlds: more buttons and two analog sticks along with motion-sensing operations. In a Revolution version of Madden Football, gamers might be able to use the combo to control players with the shell's analog sticks and execute pinpoint passes with the pointer's improved accuracy.


Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do on short notice.
f Madden Football, gamers might be able to use the combo to control players with the shell's analog sticks and execute pinpoint passes with the pointer's improved accuracy.


Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do on short notice.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html

[Johnny Vodka]

see...

the wavebird with the same features would have been great. The mockup looks okay for a mockup..but if nintendo does this, I'm sure they can sway back the haters like me.

:D

[neomatrix]

that is cool I like now the Revolution