panasonic m2 blackboxes

[Sandman]

Whats the full model # listed on the back of your console ( I think its in a white rectangular box)? I always hypothosized that those settings may be exclusive to the model type based on the configuration. But I couldn't tell because panasonics literature seems to contradict itself on which models offer what.

Incidentally, there are two white boxes on the back of the box - - However, I'm sure the one on the left is the model number because it has model no. fz-35s printed above it. I will print the other number just in case it is of any importance . . . The contents read as the following:
[Left Side]
"MODEL NO.FZ-35S
1H1-M"
[Right Side]
"OIKSA03488" (Probably is just the serial number)

Anyways, I hope this helps out on solving the problem as to whether the dipswitches are configured differently according to the model. I mean, I'm interested in knowing also.

How does Panasonic contradict themselves on which model offeres what? (Just asking) - - Also, what do you think the switch settings mean? (What they might control and/or configure?)

(The pleasure is all mine on the pics. I'll do as much within my power to support this whole M2 "Project" [if I can call it that . . . ] considering that I'm interesting in seeing results)

[jwhazel]

I can't be positive that the dipswitchs correlate to the model #. It was just a hypothosis for now. As for what they do, I'm really not sure until I get my hands on one. According to windowskiller, 1 is for network device (modems are installed on the cardslot I think) and 4 is for the optical drive. 2 and 3 are still a mystery although I would guess maybe something to do with buses and add-ons (maybe has something to do with the super floppy).

In terms of the model "uncertainty" its kind of complex. I can post if you really want to know, but would need to go back into my stuff to find it all. Awhile back somebody on here posted the first couple of megs of one of the kiosk discs online for windowskiller to look at the FS attributes. I greped through it and dumped all the plaintext which gave me several html documents, some of them were actually copies of promo material for the FZ-35 and the unreleased FZ-55. The model #'s there seem to contradict the model #'s posted on their website years ago which also seem to contradict what the model #'s that were actually made. So to this day I still haven't been able to track down what all is out there.

[Sandman]

I can't be positive that the dipswitchs correlate to the model #. It was just a hypothosis for now. As for what they do, I'm really not sure until I get my hands on one. According to windowskiller, 1 is for network device (modems are installed on the cardslot I think) and 4 is for the optical drive. 2 and 3 are still a mystery although I would guess maybe something to do with buses and add-ons (maybe has something to do with the super floppy).

I suppose that Panasonic probably planned on the M2 having the capablility to upgrade. That would explain why there would be a switch for network devices. I heard a while back that it was meant to have ethernet capabilities. Basically meaning a connection to high-speed internet, which I'm guessing is for upgrades of software and such. I mean, that's all I really all I know as far as the add-ons go . . . I mean, it is very possible that the switches were for things you've named previously.

In terms of the model "uncertainty" its kind of complex. I can post if you really want to know, but would need to go back into my stuff to find it all. Awhile back somebody on here posted the first couple of megs of one of the kiosk discs online for windowskiller to look at the FS attributes. I greped through it and dumped all the plaintext which gave me several html documents, some of them were actually copies of promo material for the FZ-35 and the unreleased FZ-55. The model #'s there seem to contradict the model #'s posted on their website years ago which also seem to contradict what the model #'s that were actually made. So to this day I still haven't been able to track down what all is out there.

I mean, I don't wanna trouble you by making you dig for old stuff like that. If you have the free time, I'll be very grateful on obtaining that information. Thank You (if you choose to post it) - -While we're on the topic (trying not to push it) . . . Do you know where I would be able to obtain a copy or iso image (whatever it may be) of an arcaed disc based on the M2 Hardware? Windowskiller was able to get his hands on some. Also, would finding the software/program CDMotion help progress anything whatsoever? I mean, how important of a role does it play in getting the M2 to run arcade games?

[Yakumo]

The people, who I know speaks Japanese are GaijinPunch, Warakia Yakumo-sama. And well I think either gaijinPunch, and Warakia, would be the best bet. If I remember right, but ask Yakumo too. And if you want to go into the extreme, then also ask Japan-Games.com. Since he is a member too.

:crying: I'm thrid choice ? :crying: Just as well really since speaking and writing are two different things. I can speak very well indeed but those F*ing kanji !!!

Yakumo

[jwhazel]

From a post several weeks back

Hmmm... Just off of the 2mb chunk that you posted, I was able to dump the following:

http://www.slowlyburning.net/misc/opera1.html
http://www.slowlyburning.net/misc/opera2.html
http://www.slowlyburning.net/misc/opera3.html
http://www.slowlyburning.net/misc/opera4.html
http://www.slowlyburning.net/misc/opera5.html
http://www.slowlyburning.net/misc/opera6.html
http://www.slowlyburning.net/misc/opera7.html

Not blindingly interesting. However it looks like you can access/change "registry" settings straight from the browser. I wonder how much "hacking" could be done simply through HTML then reburning the disc.

One of those pages that I extracted listed the model #'s. Theres another page hidden somewhere on archive.org regarding a different set of #'s with the same configuration. And finally, I can't seem to find any produced models which match up with whats on any of these pages (yours for instance is a FZ-35S1H1-M). It's not a huge deal though. Just kind of an annoyance in my quest to document all of the 3do consoles.

Do you know where I would be able to obtain a copy or iso image (whatever it may be) of an arcaed disc based on the M2 Hardware?

I'm afraid that I don't. I'm just a simple man, trying to gather information and put together a website. If I did have legit copies of the software, I wouldn't have any problems making them available to the public (I've got the space and the bandwith). Actually i'm far more interested in having the kiosks than any of the games because I think they may hold some valuable information about what all can be done on with the FZ.

Also, would finding the software/program CDMotion help progress anything whatsoever?

I suppose. The guy who wrote it lost it and every other product he worked on in a hard drive crash. I think you'd have better luck actually finding a real dev kit before finding cdmotion though.

[jwhazel]

:crying: I'm thrid choice ? :crying: Just as well really since speaking and writing are two different things. I can speak very well indeed but those F*ing kanji !!!

Yakumo

Actually I hate asking people to translate stuff for me (so much so that I've started to try to learn japanese myself). But could you by chance tell me what this picture is all about? Posted on the official M2 website some years ago. It's way over my head. It sticks out like a sore thumb on a corporate website full of tech specs.

[Sandman]

One of those pages that I extracted listed the model #'s. Theres another page hidden somewhere on archive.org regarding a different set of #'s with the same configuration. And finally, I can't seem to find any produced models which match up with whats on any of these pages (yours for instance is a FZ-35S1H1-M). It's not a huge deal though. Just kind of an annoyance in my quest to document all of the 3do consoles.

I'm sorry, I don't wanna seem like a pest - - I'm probably just missing something here . . . but when I open the html files I can never see the pics/photos - - Also, The first and last couple seems to be simple account logins. My question is, are these the files that are said to be able to boot 'something' on the M2? Also, is this the so-called opera file system I've heard about?

I suppose. The guy who wrote it lost it and every other product he worked on in a hard drive crash. I think you'd have better luck actually finding a real dev kit before finding cdmotion though.

It sucks that he didn't back it up. Oh well, anyways, on ebay someone is selling a dev kit, but I don't think it is for the M2 we're talking. Maybe you should take a look:
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-PANASONIC-3...QQcmdZViewItem

What do you think? It's kinda exspensive - - Oh well . . . By the way, I think Assembler has some kiosks for the M2 - - However, I'm not sure if he parted wit' em' yet.

[jwhazel]

when I open the html files I can never see the pics/photos

Yeah, all I extracted were the html files. It was only the first 2 megs of an entire 650mb disc. I could have maybe extracted a few of the images, but didn't really feel like delving that deep into it.

Also, The first and last couple seems to be simple account logins. My question is, are these the files that are said to be able to boot 'something' on the M2?

Hmmmm... not sure if I understand you q? correctly. The login files that I posted were just ripped off of one of the kiosk discs. What I found to be interesting was the fact that the FZ-35s not only has some sort of web browser but also that you can apparently configure the system through it. Maybe some potential for hacking the system that way (hence the reason why I am interested in the kiosk, not so much in the arcade games). In terms of booting something on the FZ, I don't know. Thats windowskiller's expertise.

Oh well, anyways, on ebay someone is selling a dev kit, but I don't think it is for the M2 we're talking.

Yep, thats the m2 we're talking about. The 3do M2 NuBus development kit. Rare piece of equipment. Search around on this board and you'll find a few members who own one.

[WolverineDK]

:crying: I'm thrid choice ? :crying: Just as well really since speaking and writing are two different things. I can speak very well indeed but those F*ing kanji !!!

Yakumo

Yakumo-sama, I apologise. I only thought, because you once said, that GaijinPunch was perhaps a better person (in speaking Japanese) than you, when we talked about the Japanese language. Long before this thread started.

Summimasen friend.

[jwhazel]

As for the different models, I think all customers wanted the top-notch model, that's why we only see the FZ-35S 1H1-M around.

Didn't you say there was a 35J with only one processor?

The web browser is Planet-Web, by the way, and it seems that the provider was Sega's Dreamcast Network. I can upload the whole folder with all files, though most files aren't that interesting.

Interesting. I was wondering what web browser was ported to run on that architecture. Also interesting is the fact that it used the Dreamcast network despite the previous fallout between Panasonic, 3do, and Sega. I'd be interested in the web files at least for some of the pictures and product literature that it looks like it must contain. Alot of that stuff (particularly the pdf's) never got picked up by archive.org.

[Sandman]

the files required for booting are all part of the System.m2 folder. (which doesn't exist on the arcade discs, hence they don't boot on the kiosk unit)

So, this basically means that we need a kiosk disc, right? (or at least a copy of one . . . that's IF copy would contain the files that'll make the M2 boot the disc) - -

P.S.

I'm still having no luck obtaining a copy of at least one of the arcade games that were based on the M2's hardware. I did post a thread, but no one responded. Also, I found a list of (what I think is) all the games that were ever made based on the M2's hardware. (It isn't terribly interesting, but I thought I should let you guys know . . . )

Tobe! Polystars, 97
Total Vice, 97
Battle Tryst, 98)
Heat of Eleven '98, 98
Evil Night, 98

I found this at: http://unmamed.mame.net/non_konami.html

Sandman

[pitsunami]

i think everybody knows the games... check thi out too http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=575

[Sandman]

i think everybody knows the games... check thi out too http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=575

Nice Site :clap: - This clears up a few things for me . . . (But still no games - :crying:) - Oh well, back to the drawing board.

[Sandman]

I HAVE a kiosk disc. Didn't I say that already? :110:


You mean that thread:

http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11367

:confused: :confused: :confused:

For some reason I keep on giving you more and more reasons to think that I am slow, lol. I've been sick lately, sorry if I seem a little "out of it" - - By the way, (I'm asking because you'd probably know [Guru]) - Am I supposed to recieve an email prior to someone replying to my post? (I'm fairly new to the whole forums scene) I'm sorry if I seem to ask questions that you've already answered. :banghead:

I've uploaded the first game (Battle Tryst), everyone who wants it send a PM please. It will stay online for 3 days or so, then I'll upload the next one.

I definately would like to obtain Battle Tryst and/or whatever you may have concerning the M2's hardware (apparently.) - Thanks alot for your help. I never realized that you told me and/or someone that you have a kiosk. Anyways, thanks again for your help!

[Yakumo]

Actually I hate asking people to translate stuff for me (so much so that I've started to try to learn japanese myself). But could you by chance tell me what this picture is all about? Posted on the official M2 website some years ago. It's way over my head. It sticks out like a sore thumb on a corporate website full of tech specs.

That add says nothing about M2. Something about a new trainer. The kanji moves too fast for me to get a good look at it.

Yakumo

[jwhazel]

I think (if I understood the author of FreeDO correctly) that the problem is located in the filesystem. I'm probably using a wrong pre-cache table or something like that.
-----------------------
Yes, that's correct. But the bios is actually what makes the different M2 systems different. ;)

Actually, the problem thats becoming apparent to me is not the file system, but rather upon start up, the arcade disc will execute a self test to verify the main rom (possibly a crc) and the neccessary attached components (each arcade board is slightly different). Even if you could get the FZ to the point of executing arbitrary code, the arcade game would fail upon running a hardware check and seeing no arcade bios, refuse to go any further.

However, before you even get to that point, I don't think the disc will boot to begin with. As you said, all M2 bioses are different (actually 4 of the 5 arcade games share the same one). Trying to get a program designed for a specific machine and bios, to run on another despite hardware similarities isn't going to work. It would be just like trying to run MS-DOS on an x86 computer equiped with EFI (i.e. all of the new Intel Macs). Same basic hardware, but it just isn't going to work.

This is all just a rambling based on my findings today. Feel free to shoot holes in it.

That add says nothing about M2. Something about a new trainer. The kanji moves too fast for me to get a good look at it.

Everybit of research I do into the m2 makes me question the developers competence more and more. In case anyone was wondering, that animated gif comes from here: http://web.archive.org/web/200202020...com/index.html
Being smack dab in the middle of a seemingly corporate page pushing the technology of a system you paid a cool hundred-mil for, I guess I just assumed it had something to do with software or development for the M2. Idiots. Thanks so much for clearing that up for me though Yakumo.

[jwhazel]

I'm sure the bios does a very basic POST like any good bios would do, but thats it. I doesn't even seem to be aware of some of the additional peripherals of the system. Its only job is to hold portfolio. The real test comes from the arcade disc. It does a crc of the mask rom (just like a regular arcade booting up). Then it preceeds to test and initialize other devices like the rtc. Its interesting because it appears that each game that requires an rtc initializes it differently (presumably because they each use different rtc's). Total Vice so far is the only disc I don't have but I would wager in addition to its startup routine, you'll also find a routine that initalizes the additional sound rom that it uses. I don't know how the interface is done between the jamma connector and the M2's bus, but whatever it does it seems to test that interface (or at least be aware of it) as well. I'm not for certain since I still can't read operfafs, but I'm assuming this is all taking place in the startup program, launchme.m2.

If any part of the aformentioned process goes bad, the program halts execution with an error. Pitsunami has proved this by trying to run different arcade discs on the same board. It doesn't work. I can't pinpoint exactly where its at, but I believe its simply the disc checking to see if the proper hardware is there and not finding it. Hell, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if you would remove the battery on the board, the hardware will halt do to not being able to initialize the rtc. Thats just how touchy it is.

Now fast forward to the bios issues. While I'm not positive, it would seem to me that the arcade was made slightly before the FZ's and most likely completely independent of. I doubt that any though was given into the compatibility between systems and wether or or not code would be interchangable. When I look at the differences between the FZ-35 and the arcade system, I see what I would only guess as a much more complex bus system in the FZ, likely managed mostly by the bios. I also see the possibility of the bios calls being anywhere from slightly to completely different between the 2 systems. This being the reason that konami arcade games will never do anything more than crash when started on the FZ.

An interesting test at this point would be to see if an arcade game works on a dez kit (my bet is no). But at least with a debugger loaded, you might be able to tell where.

[jwhazel]

even the bios of the FZ-35s contains drivers for peripherals like a light gun and other (arcade) stuff.

So then what did the light guns run off of? I assumed it was the jamma interface. Unless its an rs-232 peripheral, I don't see how you would plug them into the FZ.

Did he tell you that he built his arcade system out of two damaged units? That's most likely why no other game is working on it. Besides, the arcade system only contains stuff that is really needed for the game, nothing else.

I don't understand the last line. If the arcade system contains only stuff needed for the game and nothing else, then why would it matter if two busted arcades were combined to make one working one? If that were the case then one working arcade game would play any of the discs.

The FZ-35s on the other hand has all that any of the games may need (NVRAM, RTC, etc.)

So your saying that the FZ also contains the specific sound rom used in total vice?

Compatibility is given by the M2 technology.

The m2 technoglogy was just a set of specs. I don't know that there is anything that requires them to be compatible (fz21's can read vcd's but fz35s can't, right?) and even if so, that may have easily changed once it was sold to matsushita. Another thought, you do realize the arcade was clocked to 33mhz. Aren't the FZ-35's 66mhz?

[jwhazel]

Anyway, I don't think it makes much sense to discuss about that. Let me continue my work and have patience. If I ever have to give up because you are right, I'll let you know!

Just tryin to help man. I respect your work and the fact your a better programmer than I. Theres no question, I want the games to work.

[pitsunami]

He has not proven anything. Did he tell you that he built his arcade system out of two damaged units? That's most likely why no other game is working on it. Besides, the arcade system only contains stuff that is really needed for the game, nothing else. The FZ-35s on the other hand has all that any of the games may need (NVRAM, RTC, etc.)

sorry but you misunderstood what i said my hell mobo is whole and doesnt have a problem, i only needed to put a jumper on the cdrom to work...my total vice has a problem to one of its powerpc's(two legs missing,pretty bad) so i changed the good upper board to the total vices; bad but nothing. anyway my point is that hell mobo is good and the only game that played perfect is hell night nothing more and my total vice is original.thats all idont know why crashes...