Plug n' Play

[StarWolf]

Looking in the Argos sale catalogue today, I came across a Batman Plug n' Play game. I've been trying to find some screen shots online to show everyone, but I'm damn sure it's a new game. So I'll get to the point of this topic:

I assumed all PnPs used either single chip NES/MD/2600 hardware, such as the Radica/EA Sports MD based ones or the Atari Jstick with built-in games. But what about all these other PnP jobbies such as the gungames, Spongebob, Spiderman, Bratz dancemat etc? Anyone know if this is custom hardware being used, or are these running on, say, the MD-on-a-chip? The graphics do look fairly basic though.

This is the best listing of PnPs I could find quickly: here.

[Fonzie]

I think they are all MD related hardware.
Cause it would be too hard to code games for NES actualy (games that look decent).

And, once they found how to build the genesis in a chip, it is easy for them to use it for all their pnp games (the Genesis is the faster official in-a-chip video system I know...).

Thats just the logical way, isn't it?

I still don't understand why sega don't produce a REAL new MegaDrive system (with decent sound) and a cartridge port... It is 1000 times better than those crap "PnP systems"...

[the_steadster]

Because then people would just buy 2nd hand games for that rather than expensive compilations

[Fonzie]

Umm, maybe, you're true... But it should be a sort of rebirth of interest for this system...
Sega already did something like that for the pico, they continue to release games!

[Calpis]

I don't think it's existing hardware at all. My guess is that the cores are a little more modern than MD.

[tom61]

Varies between the systems. The Genesis (red and blue at least) controllers are a chip version of the real thing, and you can take out the ROM and replace it with a cartridge slot and play real Genesis games on it (minor compatability issues, though). Some are famiclones, like the Game Station Arcade (you can take the ROMS out and put them in a NES cart).

I think most are either custom PALs or small ARM/MIPS based 'systems-on-a-chip', though. It's hard to tell, as most are small circuit boards with only a couple of unlabeled chip blobs and minor supporting hardware (capacitors and stuff).

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Many of the older ones from Jakks Pacific (even the ones that had new games) used Famicom-on-a-chip. Most other companies use Famicom, too. Even the Intellivision 25-in-1 systems that came out a few years ago were actually Famicoms, not Intellivisions. This can always be provisionally confirmed by noting that the timing crystal matches the NES even if the chips are glop-tops.

I'm not sure about the Atari and Activision ones, I think they might be 2600 architecture or maybe something new, but not Famicom. There's also some systems from Radica (Tetris, Space Invaders and a couple others) that I think are probably some sort of unique architecture.

The old Spongebob one is a Famicom and so are the other ones form that period. More recently, though, I think the Jakks Pacific systems are all Genesis based; the Spiderman, Disney, etc. ones. I'm not sure about that, but they look very much like Genesis graphics, but I don't actually own any of them yet.

There's also an architecure called Xavix that was formerly used in a lot of plug'n'play systems and may still be used by some companies.


...word is bondage...

[XerdoPwerko]

The C64 one is an actual C64, though. Right?

[StarWolf]

Apparently, you can add a keyboard/mouse and floppydrive to the C64 ones.

I was thinking that Spiderman and Batman were based on single-chip MD hardware, with their 3 buttons. I'd be interested to see if they're using actual old MD dev kits, or if its all PC emulation based.

So, would it be possible to dump the Spidey/Batman games, and play them on an actual MD, assuming it is running on a MDoac?

[WolverineDK]

The C64 one is an actual C64, though. Right?

yes of some sort yes because you can hack it out and make a C64 out of it......

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

So, would it be possible to dump the Spidey/Batman games, and play them on an actual MD, assuming it is running on a MDoac?

Yes, it would work, this has been done with some of the Famicom-on-a-chip based systems (including the Intellivision one, so now there's a 25-in-1 Intelilvision ROM floating around for NES emulators). The problem, though, is that most of these systems don't use real chips that can just be pulled out and plugged into a dumper, they use little tiny chips covered in plastic resin. Someone here mentioned once that that doesn't necessarily mean they can't be dumped, and while that's theoretically true, dumping a glop top chip would be insanely complicated, I don't think anyone's ever done it. PLus, in a lot of cases, they have the game ROMs and hardware integrated into one chip, which I'm pretty sure would make it impossible to dump.


...word is bondage...

[Greatsaintlouis]

Anyone know what the Street Fighter 2 PnP game is running on?

[tom61]

Anyone know what the Street Fighter 2 PnP game is running on?

I've been hearing that its a Genesis on a chip.

Any ideas on the Atari joystick and Flashback?

Could you all link to the info you have on what's what in the Plug'n'Play world? Info that I have:

Radica Genesis controller (Genesis core):
http://benheck.com/Games/Exodus.htm
Pinout:
http://benheck.com/Data%20Downloads/...tridgeSlot.jpg
Compatability:
http://benheck.com/ipw-web/bulletin/...pic.php?t=1517

Game Station Arcade (NES/famicom core):
http://tripoint.org/kevtris/mappers/...LT_15in1A.html
Game Station Arcade with pirate roms:
http://tripoint.org/kevtris/nes/pirate17.html

[SuperGrafx]

Anyone know what the Street Fighter 2 PnP game is running on?

I'd be interested to hear as well. THe packaging states that the Genesis version of Ghouls N Ghosts is included as well.

[AntiPasta]

Sega already did something like that for the pico, they continue to release games!

They do? :smt1069 Got more info on this?

[Fonzie]

Yeah, just look:
http://www.pico-club.com/
Btw: The pico is in fact, a classic sega megadrive (without z80 and FM i guess).


"I've been hearing that its a Genesis on a chip."
Yeah, its a genesis on a chip, i confirm.

[Calpis]

Yes, it would work, this has been done with some of the Famicom-on-a-chip based systems (including the Intellivision one, so now there's a 25-in-1 Intelilvision ROM floating around for NES emulators). The problem, though, is that most of these systems don't use real chips that can just be pulled out and plugged into a dumper, they use little tiny chips covered in plastic resin. Someone here mentioned once that that doesn't necessarily mean they can't be dumped, and while that's theoretically true, dumping a glop top chip would be insanely complicated, I don't think anyone's ever done it. PLus, in a lot of cases, they have the game ROMs and hardware integrated into one chip, which I'm pretty sure would make it impossible to dump.


...word is bondage...

Epoxy is hard to remove but it's not impossible, sometimes it can be done without too much damage to the component underneath. Of course people have read epoxy'd ROMs, as long as you have access to the data and address tracks you're good to go. Hardware + game under the same epoxy, is a different story. That requires people to read the ROMs manually, transistor level.


Until you guys actually hear a statement claiming that whomever uses whatever system or you can actually SEE the code, I don't think it's smart to say whichever game uses whichever system. Yes you may see similar characteristics between the composite image of a Famiclone and Game A or Mega Drive and Game B, so what? VDP are what you can see, and if Game B looks like a MD screen mode, how would you know that a MD from a Texas Instruments VDP with the same mode? You can't see a CPU core. If you can hear similarities in the PPU, do some comprehensive tests to convey your hypothesis. Nobody has done this to my knowledge yet so it would be interesting. Otherwise, I think the hardware should be treated as an "unknown" since that is truely what they are...

[tom61]

Until you guys actually hear a statement claiming that whomever uses whatever system or you can actually SEE the code, I don't think it's smart to say whichever game uses whichever system. Yes you may see similar characteristics between the composite image of a Famiclone and Game A or Mega Drive and Game B, so what? VDP are what you can see, and if Game B looks like a MD screen mode, how would you know that a MD from a Texas Instruments VDP with the same mode? You can't see a CPU core. If you can hear similarities in the PPU, do some comprehensive tests to convey your hypothesis. Nobody has done this to my knowledge yet so it would be interesting. Otherwise, I think the hardware should be treated as an "unknown" since that is truely what they are...

I agree with you. I'm very tempted to buy and take apart some of the unknowns (esp. ones made by Radica, as they have a confirmed MD/Gen on a chip based system). I already have some, but most of those are glop-tops and very hard to tell exactly what they are. I took apart the Ms. Pac-Man stick (best of the arcade sticks IMO) recently, the bottom is nice and well labeled, what contacts are what (Pause, reset, up, down, etc.). "Very nice, I bet they even labeled the glop tops," I thought. However, I un-screw it and the top was only labeled minimally, U1 is a large glop top, U2 a smaller glop top. :smt022

Considering how well labeled stuff on the bottom was, I wouldn't have been surprised to find SMT DIPs and SOICs on the other side. Oh well. I need to take a look at it again, as I really want to figure out how it works. The games are very close to the orginals, so close in fact that I wouldn't be surprised if they were using emulation and modified roms (not that hard to remove the boot-up diagnostics, and replace 'insert coin' with 'press button').

[Radar]

According to my sources none of the Jakks systems are based around Nes-on-a-chip.

The following are his comments:

Disney 5 in 1, Classic Pinball - built around SunPlus Ver 1.0 (unSP)
Namco Ms.Pac, Batman, - built around SunPlus Ver 2.0 (unSP)
Atari TV Games, Activision, Namco Pacman - built around Winbond Ver 1.0 (65816)
Spongebob SP - built around Winbond Ver 2.0 (65816)

[Fonzie]

Thx dude.
So It certainely means that nesonachip/mdonachip are too expensive and too limited for actual programmers...
Funky anyway!