Help: Sold an Earthbound bootleg and PayPal wants more proof

[MangledLeg]

Hi all,

i realise I'm only a relative newbie on here (more of a lurker than a poster), but I was wondering if I could get some assistance to clear up a dispute I'm having with a seller on eBay who sold me an Earthbound cart that's turned out to be a bootleg copy.

The following is a photo of the disassembled cart:



I also noticed that the cart was not sitting flush on the side that the NAND IC has been soldered to the cart and that one of the screws had also been stripped bare.

I was alerted to the potential issue by another eBay member who found out they had purchased a bootleg from the same seller and they managed to get their money back, so I don't know why mine hasn't gone through yet. I want to add this thread as a link in my response and would really appreciate some helpful opinions if possible. The seller has sold multiple Earthbound carts with the same description, so it looks like its an ongoing issue.

Thanks in advance :)

[MottZilla]

More proof? How about that chip didn't exist when the game was manufactured? This is a picture of what the board *should* look like. http://www.snescentral.com/pcbboards...p=SHVC-1J3M-11

[Mathias]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the seller took a legit board and added an Earthbound eprom.

[APE]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the seller took a legit board and added an Earthbound eprom.

Close but not quite. That is a TSOP->DIP adapter board purpose built for such occasions. Instead of an EPROM it has a piece of TSOP flash soldered to the small PCB; very different technologies but the same end result. An example:

http://www.buyicnow.com/vp.php?pd=2503

Another possible way to verify it is a bootleg is to take a high rez shot of the TSOP flash chip and decode the date code. Unless Nintendo can travel to the future to take back future NAND that datecode will reveal it is far too new to possibly be used in a SuperNES cart.

[Eviltaco64]

Do you think this would still work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmyoV1bkXNI
(^ Earthbound Anti-Piracy measures video)

It crashes the game right before the end of it and erases your record, but I'm guessing this guy figured out how to circumvent this if he's selling multiple copies.

[MottZilla]

No, that video has nothing to do with this. That video has to do with old game copier devices, not bootleg cartridges like this.

As APE said, the cartridge contains a TSOP Flash chip that did not exist in the year that Earthbound was manufactured. Also it is common knowledge that retail SNES games contain a MASKROM chip. They do not contain programmable ROM chips.

[MangledLeg]

Thank you so much everyone for your assistance! :)

I've gone through the photos I already took and jumped in for some hi-res shots of the IC, and look what my delightful camera managed to capture - here's the full frame shot:



And here's the crop:



An AMD chip from 1998 in a SNES cart manufactured in 1995? Madness!

I'll link back to this thread in the documentation I'll send over to PayPal and include the technical details in addition to the new pics.

For the sake of recording this for other people who might have been caught out, here's some other shots:

Image demonstrating the leg height of the TSOP Flash chip vs the other ICs on the PCB:



Images demonstrating the bulge on the case and the stripped screw:







Thanks again guys, I'll keep you posted on how things turn out!

[APE]

Who is the seller? I'm a bit bored and feel like trolling him. i.e. asking for a picture of the inside of the cart to prove it is legit.

Just because the copyright date on the chip is 1998 doesn't mean it was manufactured in 1998. Could easily be much newer than that which aside is still manufactured after most SNES titles ceased to be manufactured.

[HEX1GON]

Who is the seller? I'm a bit bored and feel like trolling him. i.e. asking for a picture of the inside of the cart to prove it is legit.

Just because the copyright date on the chip is 1998 doesn't mean it was manufactured in 1998. Could easily be much newer than that which aside is still manufactured after most SNES titles ceased to be manufactured.

He most likely wouldn't reply, it'd be so funny to see what he would have to say if he does though.

[Mathias]

Close but not quite. That is a TSOP->DIP adapter board purpose built for such occasions. Instead of an EPROM it has a piece of TSOP flash soldered to the small PCB; very different technologies but the same end result. An example:

http://www.buyicnow.com/vp.php?pd=2503

Another possible way to verify it is a bootleg is to take a high rez shot of the TSOP flash chip and decode the date code. Unless Nintendo can travel to the future to take back future NAND that datecode will reveal it is far too new to possibly be used in a SuperNES cart.

Ah, I'm still in the learning phases of snes technology. Cheers!

[mikeryan]

That TSOP to DIP PCB came from dorkbot PDX, which has only been doing PCB orders for about two years now. Purple with tabs is a dead giveaway.

[MottZilla]

Curious, who is the seller and how much did you pay for this bootleg?

[MangledLeg]

Thanks again for the replies guys :)

Not sure on the legalities of naming/shaming as I don't want to fall foul of defamation law :( Will see what comes out of my updated report to PayPal, but I'll divulge that I coughed up a price around ~US$160 for it :(

However, I have managed to track down another official cart that arrived in the post today that was slightly cheaper than the repro, and was actually a genuine cart! The one I grabbed had a torn label so I figured it was more likely to be an original cart, and it turns out it is :) Had a nice little official MASKROM in there!

So all that's left is to fax (not sure why I can't just send a PDF of the document) the updated report, which I'll aim to do tomorrow.

Again, will post pending on how things go!

[Bad_Ad84]

Unless Nintendo can travel to the future to take back future NAND that datecode will reveal it is far too new to possibly be used in a SuperNES cart.

NOR, not NAND.

[MottZilla]

Holy crap. $160 for a bootleg worth maybe $20 at best.

[Lum]

After labor? I'm not sure what donors are suitable for Earthbound anyway. $160 you may as well get a boxed SNES and CIB Japanese copy, sheesh.

[MottZilla]

Actually a CIB US copy of Earthbound seems to go for quite alot now. But still no matter how you estimate "cost", $160 for a worthless bootleg. That's a huge profit.

[Lum]

Well yes I wasn't considering the language barrier.

[MangledLeg]

Yeah, that's part of the reason I'm so angry - $160 for a repro is unbelieveable.

Anywho, quick update - I now also have an official letter from NoA giving their take on the matter, and their confirmation that the game is not a genuine cartridge.

Really wish I could just upload the report I've put together in PDF format, but PayPal have asked for a fax, so that's how it is I guess. Will send it off tomorrow.

Fingers crossed this sorts it out!

[Doom]

An official letter? Props for that.

Mind expanding on how you went about getting the proper individual to review your situation? Sounds interesting.

-Doom