Sega's "Nights into Dreams" XBLA/PSN/PC bound

[Prometheus]

My Toshiba TV actually turns off the sides of the screen when displaying a 4:3 image. This is great because you get pure black side bars. It will only do this if being fed a true 4:3 image froma retro console though.

Huh, so they DO make TVs that do that. I always wondered why my TV didn't have an option for something like that. Funny though, my LCD TV is a Toshiba as well. Why doesn't mine have something like that? What model is yours?

Sonic All=star Racing is far more than a run of the mill kart racer. No other racing game has been played so much on my 360 including the Forza games. Have you ever played the Namco made Mario Kart arcade games? They're fantastic. that's the feeling All-Stars has. Good colourful family fun. As for the demo that was release, yeah that is total shit. The final game is silky smooth.

Definitely. Sonic All-Star Racing reminded me of Crash Team Racing on the PS1, a game I played the hell out of back when I was a kid. The sequel is supposed be coming out this year. I'm looking forward to it, especially since it'll have Vyse from Skies of Arcadia. He'll be my main racer assuming Banjo & Kazooie don't return for the 360 version.

[Yakumo]

My Toshiba is a LED Regza from 2011. I'm not at home at the moment so I can't tell you the model but I can tell you it is a Japanese only model. It has so many pcture options that would make even a TV technician cream his pants. I have no idea what most if them mean.

Yakumo

[Prometheus]

Wish my TV had that feature. It would have saved my the trouble of getting it repaired (lucky for me it was still barely under warranty). Having the 4:3 bars damage my screen has made me paranoid of anything that stays black on the screen for too long, whether it be from old games or blu-ray movies.

Funny how my old CRT from 1988, which had frequent use as my main TV, had no issues with the picture being damaged the last time I used it (around 2008), but my supposedly burn-in proof LCD HDTV made in 2010 couldn't go a year without having something wrong with it.

[AlecRob]

If they released Shenmue 1 and 2 on xbox/ps3 do you think it would have to be on a a disc instead of download? because both games together would weigh in at around 6 gigs, right?

[Anthaemia.]

I'm not actually sure what the overall size of both Shenmue games would be... presumably there was a lot of shared data (such as location and character textures, for example) spread over the total seven original Dreamcast GD-ROMs, though I suspect voice files took up most of the space. While it's safe to say that I'm no expert on the subject, compression techniques must have surely improved over the last ten years or so - unless the assets are being redrawn in a higher resolution as opposed to simply being upscaled, which probably won't help with keeping below the XBLA or PSN download limits. Maybe this is why it's taking so long for a confirmation of this one from Sega, despite previous claims the finished product has been ready to go for at least a year?

[Lum]

My Toshiba is a LED Regza from 2011. I'm not at home at the moment so I can't tell you the model but I can tell you it is a Japanese only model. It has so many pcture options that would make even a TV technician cream his pants. I have no idea what most if them mean.

Yakumo

I've said it before. I get the impression TVs sold for USA market are inferior.

[Yakumo]

That's because they are. I can tell you another thing too about VHS recorders. In Europe (UK) our mid to higher end players had RGB Scart. Yeah, I know VHS isn't technically RGB but our players never had any of the shit problems associated with composite out. Also dubbing from tape to tape was quality thanks to the RGB scart cables. Oh, and another thing. PAL video recorders give a far better image quality that is easily notable. When I first came to Japan I bought a high end Panasonic video recorder and the image quality was shit compared to my Toshiba (PAL & NTSC playback!) and Ferguson (UK Brand) machines back in the UK. Even my parents mid range PAL Panasonic was better. Oh, and EVERY VCR in Japan only had composite out and in or S-Video if lucky.

In PAL Land we really got shafted when it came to game consoles but for actual AV equipment we were better off.

[HEX1GON]

That's because they are. I can tell you another thing too about VHS recorders. In Europe (UK) our mid to higher end players had RGB Scart. Yeah, I know VHS isn't technically RGB but our players never had any of the shit problems associated with composite out. Also dubbing from tape to tape was quality thanks to the RGB scart cables. Oh, and another thing. PAL video recorders give a far better image quality that is easily notable. When I first came to Japan I bought a high end Panasonic video recorder and the image quality was shit compared to my Toshiba (PAL & NTSC playback!) and Ferguson (UK Brand) machines back in the UK. Even my parents mid range PAL Panasonic was better. Oh, and EVERY VCR in Japan only had composite out and in or S-Video if lucky.

In PAL Land we really got shafted when it came to game consoles but for actual AV equipment we were better off.

You'd think it's the other way around...

[Vosse]

I don't see a problem on re-releasing games in HD. It lets people that never played these games the opportunity to try some classics. Of course there's cash-in opportunities, but just avoid those. There's a big difference between good HD remasters and terrible ones.

The Good:
GOW Collection Vol.1 (better framerates than originals, no Screen tearing. This is one of the ubiqutious examples of "Unlocking Potential". FMVs are only 480p)
ICO / Shadow of the Colossus: (As long as you play SOTC in 720p. 1080p mode is cheap vertically upscaled)
Devil May Cry: (Only flaws are that it was technically near "Impossible" to get 16:9 FMVs, and menus for some of the games;according to some of the developers; and that apparently it has some bugs while playing on a SDTV;which isn't as stupid as you think considering DMC1 ran at 512x224 originally. Interlaced to 512x448. So the jump would still be nice for those with a good SDTV.
Sly Trilogy:
Rayman 3 HD (solid throughout, but when running the game on a good SDTV over component, it's clear it's actually running at 480i, because the amount of aliasing is ridiculous. Which is funny because usually these days HD games seemed to get downscaled to 480i/p or do nothing to optimize it for that resolution. This applies to all games not just HDC)
Resident Evil Chronicles HD (better than the originals in everyway except for no WiiZapper, so using the Move controls apparently takes a little bit to get used to)
Beyond Good and Evil HD
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath(Unquestionably superior. They actually remade assets and updated the look of the game to take advantage of the newer platform while not compromising the original art's integrity)
Halo Anniversary Edition: (By far the best of all Remasters. It actually improves the graphics in everyway possible while updating the look of the world to be more consistent with the Halo universe as of late. The real kicker is if you dont' like it, you can play with the original graphics "Up-rezzed" too. And the entire musical score is re-recorded by a live orchestra +the original music as an option if you choose. The only downsides are that it doesn't use the original MP ;which I could care 2 fucks less about; and it's not native 720p by just a little bit. But neither were any of the other Halo games on the 360. So not a huge issue)
Tales of Graces ƒ

In the Middle:
GOW Collection Vol.2 ( Take a look at this video of the PSP version emulated @720p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXw2PV4OB-Y-looks pretty similar to this "HD version" in terms of texture/model quality; No AA at either 720p or 1080p and no Vsync resulting in annoying Screen Tearing. 1080p looks better but runs worse. It looks far better just from increased resolution though from 480x272 to 720p and 1080p. It sounds better AND they actually went back and redid the FMVs in 1080p.)
Resident Evil 4 HD:
Resident Evil Code Veronica HD:
(^ These are changed for the simple fact that they still look better than they originally did. And it doesn't compromise the original in anyway unlike MGSHDC. It's just two of those games where "Up-rezing" doesn't "Unlock potential of the existing assets" it's the same shit that everyone else pulls.)
Prince of Persia HD Trilogy: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...trilogy-review (ported from the PC versions but inferior to them in some ways with Missing effects. But PS3 version has some minor updated textures;quality difference really isn't great; higher quality FMVs , 3D support etc. See for comparison videos: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...79&postcount=3 )
Tomb Raider HD Trilogy:( Near definitive versions,but Underworld has DLC exclusive to the 360, and the PC version of Legend still looks far better than the PS3 version. Better lighting,better model quality etc)
MGS Collection:(PS3/360:this one had so much potential, but they fucked up too many things. 3DS has actual graphical upgrades that are Mitigated by low resolution on 3DS that could've been used on the HD versions. Plus Emulating the game looks better apart from the fact that Post processing stuff is disabled in HW mode right now and you can't get everything native 16:9. So here look at this, HDC 16:9 Cropped VS Emulated @4:3 http://i.minus.com/ibzbLoW4QB1p6G.png HDC is on the left. Another but this time in 16:9;Emulated doesn't have PP effects and has incorrect AR http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1866/comparison3.png
They tried stupidly to run MGS2 and 3 at 60FPS in every area, which completely compromises the Cinematic feel of the games and the Metal Gear Universe, not to mention the framerate on MGS3 is incredibly inconsistent on PS3 because of trying to run at 60FPS instead of just locking it to 30FPS like it was designed, which would also have preserved the Cinematic feeling of the game. MGS2 Originally ran : 60FPS gameplay,30FPS cutscenes with motion interpolation to make it more smooth. The HDC stupidly changed cutscenes to 60FPS so now it looks terrible. Like it was shot with a home video camcorder. And they didn't remove the MI to mitigate.
MGS3 Originally ran: 30FPS target all around, frequently went way below that
Also: they removed Content, no more guy savage nightmare;which means no more hilarious Sigint conversation;, no more Snake Vs Monkey, no more Secret theater with hilarious videos, no Duel Mode;which is basically boss rush; and no MGS2 Skateboarding.
Peace Walker originally ran at 20FPS Solidly This was developed by a different company in Japan, than MGS2&3 which is why they were released separately in Japan. The move to 60FPS here is much less of an issue, because the game features very little cutscenes in-game. This by is the best in the collection for that reason even though it doesn't feature any meaningful graphical upgrades to the core assets and that the Cutscenes are upscaled;but the interface over them is rendered native so it mitigates it a little)
(PSV: This too features no graphical upgrades from the 3DS version,but it also doesn't render at the Vita's Native 960x544 resolution but at 720x448;consider the originals ran at 512x448;And is still missing all the same content from the 360/PS3 version as well there is no Peace Walker;however this could be because of storage limitations of PSVita cards which max out at 4GB currently.
But there is one redeeming quality that makes this better than the 360/PS3 version. It doesn't try to stupidly break the cinematic feeling of the cutscenes, MGS3 runs at 30FPS. MGS2 runs at 60 and 30 in cutscenes. However MGS2 has some minor slowdown issues;the original did too; but in a different way since the PS2 version had no Vsync and the Vita version does. PSVita version,the back pad is used awkwardly to do actions that were previously mapped to buttons)

The bad ones:
Silent Hill HD : http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...silent-hill-hd AND http://www.destructoid.com/review-si...n-224478.phtml (Too many issues, things removed,inferior to originals they were ported from and inferior to PC versions from yesteryear)
Splinter Cell Collection: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...s-hd-remasters (Not really higher resolution for first 2. Also: Inferior to the versions they were ported from)
Jak and Daxter HDC (Mentioned below)
Medal of Honor Frontline(Insane screen tearing and performance issues)
Fixed.

And as it stands, Halo Anniversary beats ALL of these. Every single one listed above minus that is a cheap and simple "Up-rez" ports and in some cases like Jak and Daxter they don't bother to fix the issues that come in porting/hacking the original game to render with a wider FOV and different AR. This leaves you with rendering artifacts and pop-in.

See: http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-PCSX2...5316#pid245316 (Pictures are here if you can't see the attachments: http://min.us/mNVSlzCUW/1)


Many people also bitch about PS1 games not getting HDCollections and it's for obvious reasons too. They just can't go "Whooop" and port the game to a higher resolution, give it widescreen and call it a day. PS1 games up-rezd still look like PS1 games and will be quite ugly to most people.


If anything, the stuff that gets truly improved for these releases is the sound with DD and DTS where it didn't exist before.


And i'm sure Nights Will end up being one of the Good ones. I don't see how they could fuck it up since it's basically just a SS game.


ALSO: There are TVs in the US with TONS of picture options. Many brands go "no frills", but some like LG do not.
My LG set has no less than 30 adjustable options for video calibration for ISF expert modes.

[Shadowlayer]

The problem is that Sega were so good that they had further to fall than many other companies. The same could be said about Konami but nobody does because they were never in the console hardware market. Nintendo is another. They make next to nothing since most of their stuff is 3rd party and what stuff they do make is always bloody Mario this and Mario that. People complain about Sega flogging Sonic yet nobody says anything about Nintendo flogging Mario. Sonic Sega All-star Racing is a fantastic game that blows away the Wii Mario Karts but did anyone care, nope.

I agree, if I told my 6 yr old me how Sega is now he wouldn't believe me.

But here's the difference with current nintendo games: quality. The original Sonic games of the 16bit era were FLAWLESS, everything was crisp and clear you had none of the black-screen spaces of other games, everything was detailed even the trees were animated. Sonic pushed the Genesis the way other games didnt, is like Halo4 in the X360 is really amazing how it looks compared to other X360 games.

But when you play ANY sonic games after the Dreamcast it also feels rushed, there are bugs everywhere, the camera is shit. The problem isn't 3D but that sonic games are not AAA games anymore, Sonic games raised the bar but today barely make it through that bar...

I actually really liked that remix.

Sound like crap, the original had Redbook audio, but this one sounds like they fucked up the compression

I don't get it, whenever Sega announce they're gonna recycle one of their old games in HD everyone goes WOOHOO!!
but...when someone mentions the words new Sega console, the world goes BOOO!!

Because everytime theres talk of a sega console it's a load of bullshit

[jp.]

But here's the difference with current nintendo games: quality.

This.

Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every current gen 3D Sonic
New Super Mario Bros. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonic 4, Sonic Generations

[7Force]

Super Mario Galaxy 1/2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every 3D Sonic
New Super Mario Bros. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonic Generations >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Awesome Possum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every Dimps Sonic after Advance 1

Fixed that to be more truthful.

[HEX1GON]

Because everytime theres talk of a sega console it's a load of bullshit

Who falls for that?

[Keiji Dragon]

And I'm sure Nights will end up being one of the good ones. I don't see how they could fuck it up since it's basically just a SS game.

It appears to be a port of the enhanced port on PS2.

Still buy it though.

[Druid II]

But here's the difference with current nintendo games: quality. The original Sonic games of the 16bit era were FLAWLESS, everything was crisp and clear you had none of the black-screen spaces of other games, everything was detailed even the trees were animated. Sonic pushed the Genesis the way other games didnt, is like Halo4 in the X360 is really amazing how it looks compared to other X360 games.

But when you play ANY sonic games after the Dreamcast it also feels rushed, there are bugs everywhere, the camera is shit. The problem isn't 3D but that sonic games are not AAA games anymore, Sonic games raised the bar but today barely make it through that bar...

The Megadrive games had plenty of bugs as well, mostly with object collisions, and sometimes with camera (you could run off-screen, but that actually looked cool so it was more of a feature). The collisions got so bad by Sonic 3 however, that they added a line in the manual about Robotniks diabolical traps that make you get stuck in a wall with no way out but to reset. Also, I'm pretty sure none of the trees were animated.

The only thing making Sonic games stand out as a platformer were the colorful and super-fast graphics for the time (people just weren't used to that fast gameplay at the time), and the pretty cool physics system that took inertia and gravity into account (like how slopes slow you down or how you jump diagonally on a slope instead of straight up like in Mario). It did NOTHING else that was unforseen at the time, and if you take away the "run fast" gimmick, it was just a mediocre title with ok graphics. Back in the 16bit era, I actually had people disliking Sonic because all you did was run around on repetitive levels, there was no other point to the game at all.

As for graphics, it only raised the bar in the manner that it showed how new was the hardware. You can't do that nowadays, graphics are already so high up that its the visual design that matters, not the technical aspects of the graphics. (and the megadrive Sonic games excelled in that as well)

Game design wise, Mario games usually trash the shit out of any Sonic game. But the early Sonic titles did something that was completely unseen before, and graphics that you could only see in arcades, plus the obligatory edgy anthropomorphic main hero. That's how it got popular.

Don't let yourself think that any of the Sonic games were flawless. They were just generic platformers, that had the luck of pulling the right gimmicks at the right time.

[7Force]

Game design wise, Mario games usually trash the shit out of any Sonic game. But the early Sonic titles did something that was completely unseen before, and graphics that you could only see in arcades, plus the obligatory edgy anthropomorphic main hero. That's how it got popular.

Don't let yourself think that any of the Sonic games were flawless. They were just generic platformers, that had the luck of pulling the right gimmicks at the right time.

LOLwut? The Sonic games also had some pretty damn great level design, flawless controls and much more interesting gameplay than Mario thanks to the added physics and the fast, well-flowing levels. And if you think designing a Sonic level is easy, just take a look at Dimps's abysmal Sonic games and their terrible level designs with frustrating bottomless pits and spikes.

[Lum]

The Megadrive games had plenty of bugs as well, mostly with object collisions, and sometimes with camera (you could run off-screen, but that actually looked cool so it was more of a feature). The collisions got so bad by Sonic 3 however, that they added a line in the manual about Robotniks diabolical traps that make you get stuck in a wall with no way out but to reset. Also, I'm pretty sure none of the trees were animated.

The only thing making Sonic games stand out as a platformer were the colorful and super-fast graphics for the time (people just weren't used to that fast gameplay at the time), and the pretty cool physics system that took inertia and gravity into account (like how slopes slow you down or how you jump diagonally on a slope instead of straight up like in Mario). It did NOTHING else that was unforseen at the time, and if you take away the "run fast" gimmick, it was just a mediocre title with ok graphics. Back in the 16bit era, I actually had people disliking Sonic because all you did was run around on repetitive levels, there was no other point to the game at all.

As for graphics, it only raised the bar in the manner that it showed how new was the hardware. You can't do that nowadays, graphics are already so high up that its the visual design that matters, not the technical aspects of the graphics. (and the megadrive Sonic games excelled in that as well)

Game design wise, Mario games usually trash the shit out of any Sonic game. But the early Sonic titles did something that was completely unseen before, and graphics that you could only see in arcades, plus the obligatory edgy anthropomorphic main hero. That's how it got popular.

Don't let yourself think that any of the Sonic games were flawless. They were just generic platformers, that had the luck of pulling the right gimmicks at the right time.

Check out the Sonic 4 physics, and Sonic Rush level design, then that'll put what you're saying in better context.

[Druid II]

LOLwut? The Sonic games also had some pretty damn great level design, flawless controls and much more interesting gameplay than Mario thanks to the added physics and the fast, well-flowing levels. And if you think designing a Sonic level is easy, just take a look at Dimps's abysmal Sonic games and their terrible level designs with frustrating bottomless pits and spikes.

I said game design, not level design. The level design in early Sonic games was stellar, but it all boiled down to "running from left to right, dodging enemies in setting X" - in a forest, in a city, in a cave, in a factory, and so on. The underwater parts were the only ones different. Mario World and Yoshis Island tended to have much more variety in that regards - sure, it was all "reach the goal" as well, but one stage was generic super mario, in the other you had to dodge full-screen bullets, then go through a ghost house, and then a star level with flying Yoshis or ride a bone raft in a river of lava and dodge the loch ness monster that lives in it. In the early Sonic games the only difference was whether a level was paced faster or slower.

[jp.]

I said game design, not level design. The level design in early Sonic games was stellar, but it all boiled down to "running from left to right, dodging enemies in setting X" - in a forest, in a city, in a cave, in a factory, and so on. The underwater parts were the only ones different. Mario World and Yoshis Island tended to have much more variety in that regards - sure, it was all "reach the goal" as well, but one stage was generic super mario, in the other you had to dodge full-screen bullets, then go through a ghost house, and then a star level with flying Yoshis or ride a bone raft in a river of lava and dodge the loch ness monster that lives in it. In the early Sonic games the only difference was whether a level was paced faster or slower.

The only difference between a regular SMW level and the one with the raft/ghost house/flying Yoshis is that the latter are generally paced slower.

In fact, regarding the "raft" level, Sonic has Sky Chase Zone in Sonic 2. He doesn't have a ghost house, but that would have never made sense in the context of the game. Though I would say Wing Fortress Zone and Metropolis would be Sonic's "ghost houses" (or dungeons anyways). And Sonic had mini-games for collecting emeralds, which the most early Mario games had were slot machines and card matching games. I would also say Sonic had better boss fights, but it is close if we were to consider SMB3/SMW.

I mean really, if you just want to boil Sonic down to "You run fast and dodge things", I must point out that Mario easily devolves into "you walk/jog and jump a lot".

[7Force]

It's just incorrect to say that all Sonic levels are the same, except paced slower or faster. Just look at Marble Zone and Labyrinth Zone in Sonic 1: one of them is about solving puzzles and the other is underwater, which totally changes the gameplay compared to the "prototypical" Sonic level, Green Hill Zone. In Sonic 2 there's Casino Zone with its pinball and slot machines, Mystic Cave which is a confined area with little puzzles, Metropolis is a kind of labyrinth, Sky Chase...is just completely different from anything else, and Wing Fortress is more about tight platforming than any other level in the game.