Best SNES revision

[technohat]

I should probably point out that the original Super Nintendos had more power available through the cartridge port. The early SNES game copiers would draw power from the cartridge port to operate. Nintendo reduced the amount of power in later revisions to combat this, but the cart copier companies just started using external power supplies. If I remember correctly, when attempting to use a Super Wild Card copier on the later models the screen would flash like crazy while trying to load a game and then the loading would fail. This happened around the same time Nintendo also removed the plastic cartridge lock from the system.

[MottZilla]

Well I don't know, I'm not an electrical engineer. But I do recall issues like the Game Doctor SF series would cause RF video to be terrible because of RF noise from the unit.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

I should probably point out that the original Super Nintendos had more power available through the cartridge port. The early SNES game copiers would draw power from the cartridge port to operate. Nintendo reduced the amount of power in later revisions to combat this, but the cart copier companies just started using external power supplies. If I remember correctly, when attempting to use a Super Wild Card copier on the later models the screen would flash like crazy while trying to load a game and then the loading would fail. This happened around the same time Nintendo also removed the plastic cartridge lock from the system.

What was the reason Nintendo removed the cartridge lock/changed the shape of the cartridges? I always wondered that. It's funny seeing different looking versions of the same US game.

Well I don't know, I'm not an electrical engineer. But I do recall issues like the Game Doctor SF series would cause RF video to be terrible because of RF noise from the unit.

Yeah I have a Gamedoctor I was able to test; there's RF noise and interference but it's nothing close to the thick vertical line. It's not even the same kind of visual defec.t

[MottZilla]

At this point, ask Calpis or something else with some kind of electronics background.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

To be honest I've all but given up. I'm simply going to place my SNES2 motherboard inside an SNES1 shell, which other than having to rewire the multi out and controller ports, isn't such a big project.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

I actually have a fairly big update.


I'm almost totally done converting an SNES2 motherboard to fit in an SNES1 case when after rewiring everything, for video I only connected the R, G, B and csync lines to the multi AV out. The picture was visible but dark, had a decent amount of snow, and some colors were funky. Anyway, there it was: the vertical line. I managed to make it show up in an SNES2, in any game on any screen. When I hooked up the 5V and ground wires to the multiAV out, it was gone... literally impossible to see if I tried.


So basically that streak in the model 1 has to have something to do with the 5V or ground. Now if I could only figure out what that thing was.

[Bad_Ad84]

You need ground wired up...

[JimmyCrackCorn]

You need ground wired up...

Yep I know, I was just testing stuff out. I thought it was interesting that without ground and 5V wired up the vertical bar was there. Just trying to lead everyone in the right direction to figuring out why it's in the model 1 systems.

[APE]

DarthCloud, got a SNES revision+serial for you:

Model: SNN-CPU-01
Serial: UC308604405

[dragpm131]

I should probably point out that the original Super Nintendos had more power available through the cartridge port. The early SNES game copiers would draw power from the cartridge port to operate. Nintendo reduced the amount of power in later revisions to combat this, but the cart copier companies just started using external power supplies. If I remember correctly, when attempting to use a Super Wild Card copier on the later models the screen would flash like crazy while trying to load a game and then the loading would fail. This happened around the same time Nintendo also removed the plastic cartridge lock from the system.

Interesting.I remember from snes dev manual,nintendo advertise you,(when you designing a game to the fx chip),yo need program a limitation in software so you can`t use the multiplayer accesory.Because yo can overcome easy the power aviable fron the transform of snes.

But in Doom you can use the xband accesory to play online.So this means more power drained from cartridge.And if nintendo limited the power in later revisions.Maybe the doom with the xband can't work in later models?.

[technohat]

What was the reason Nintendo removed the cartridge lock/changed the shape of the cartridges? I always wondered that. It's funny seeing different looking versions of the same US game.

I believe it was a combination of cost savings and consumer complaints. I think some people had a hard time turning the system off and on because the cartridge lock had to slide in and out of the thin slot on the carts and it was sometimes a tight fit.

[ApolloBoy]

Here's my Super Famicom:

Serial: S15600248
Model: SHVC-CPU-01

[Eviltaco64]

I'm certainly not an electrical engineer, but I've noticed that vertical bars can also come from certain AC Adapters as well as your method of connecting the console to the TV.

I had a late TMSS Sega Genesis (1993?) that produced a rather nice picture through composite. I ended up losing the original AC Adapter, though, and had to go pick up a cheap 3rd party replacement from an indie game shop. What a dramatic reduction in quality. Whenever the console was on, it produced high-pitched frequencies and some strange video output errors.

In most instances that I've seen a SNES output vertical bars, it's also hooked up to something with additional upscalers, filters, or velocity modulation. I believe these additional features bring out more of the picture than Nintendo had initially intended. I'd honestly say that your best bet is to use an NTSC TV that isn't too significantly bright but still outputs a wide spectrum of colors.

(edit) Hooking the SNES up to a VCR through composite and hooking the VCR up through RF might reduce the on-screen interference too. It might reduce the picture and sound a little bit more, and create some new interference, but with a composite -> RF solution, the picture and sound are actually defined rather nicely compared to an RF box. :P

[HMPoweredMan]

What is the difference between

SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01 and SNS-CPU-1CHIP-02 ?

[JimmyCrackCorn]

What is the difference between

SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01 and SNS-CPU-1CHIP-02 ?

I have never heard of this model. Can you post a pic? Does the image quality look better than other models?

Also, here's something weird. I have an SNES Mini/2/jr that does not have the BA6596F!



Strange, no?

[amptor]

I've been trying to figure out why it has this vertical bar issue since I got my SWC DX in 1995. That sucker makes a very noticable vertical streak in games and I usually notice it in Megaman X. But I would still prefer to play these games on actual console than emulator. I like how the SNES outputs video although yeah it looks like the worse of the two photos on Ikari's page since I do not own a 1chip or SNES2 1chip deck.

So all I did was try changing cables. I ended up with a monster s-video cable. It cleaned up the image quite a bit but the vertical bar is still there. I have been playing Megaman X2 from sd2snes for a bit and it has the vertical bar in there.

Another thing is I never tried to see if this vertical bar is present on special chip games. I don't remember noticing it in Kirby Superstar which I played more than practically any SNES game that I own. But it might be there. I'll have to check. The reason why I mention this is because the ground on the cart has a clip that attaches it to the shielding of the cartridge slot which I would assume means that it gives the cartridge a solid ground to the motherboard's ground which is probably the -12V DC on the power supply (assuming that this is a 12V power supply I don't have a PSU with me to check.. it was somewhere 9V-14V but I forgot what it is really rated at.

The power supply of the deck itself probably is a good one. I haven't read problems about it like on the Genesis model 1 (which can obliterate ROM if you accidentally unplug a cart while still powered on among other things).

I would like to fix this issue but it doesn't bother me a whole lot. I learned to live with it and I rarely notice it.

I think I should see if FX, SDD-1, and SA-1 games are affected as well. I guess they probably are though.

You guys realize there is one very noticable difference between an N64 cart and a SNES cart. The shielding. Those suckers are heavy because they have a full RFI shield around the entire PCB which appears to hook directly up to the cartridge slot's grounding plate on the outside when inserting. I think Nintendo may have known about RFI problems with the SNES for a number of years just never fixed it because not enough people really seemed to notice or complain. I mean think of it this way, us 80's kids were coming off of coleco and NES sets on RFU and going to SNES still on RFU on old early to mid 1980s manufactured televisions. Most of us didn't notice the glaring defects in products because our TV sets were quite literally junk all the while. But hey, at least they worked and got the job done :P

For a long while I thought the vertical bar was because the SWC was drawing a lot of power from the deck or the motorola cpu inside it was causing this anomale. But apparantly it wasn't related to the hardware inside of the swc though since it occurs on other carts and hardware.

I think what needs to be done is experimenting with the RF shielding of the cart as mentioned previously and seeing if whatever is inserted in the cartridge slot is causing too much power draw which is causing some kind of signal drop in the video output. Although since it is ever present, I would guess that if you put together a kit and boost the signal of the video output, anything that has interference is going to get boosted across too so the line will probably become magnified in presense. It's going to take someone who really knows what they are doing to fix this. I guess if someone is really good with an oscilloscope and micro circuitry they could probably trace it back to the root cause of the problem pretty quickly.

I only know the basic stuff. Cabling, shielding, and that 75ohm impedance match to the TV set (well in the USA anyways) and the fact that the cable has to be able to carry that 75ohms of impedence. It might not be related to any of this. Also I doubt very many people are going to actually makeshift an RFI shield into a cart and seal it up and game, especially not for all the legit carts that they own.

Maybe if more current at the same voltage is applied to the cartridge slot it might have some affect. I wouldn't want to overdo anything. I think applying more current is a start but don't change the voltage; you will fry a lot of stuff doing that.

Oh and come to think of it on current, if someone's vertical bar is more noticable with one flash cart than another (or legit cart opposed to snes powerpak or neoflash snes myth, or even swc dx in my case well I own all of these) then it sounds like that would be directly related to current (amps, mah, however it is rated) than anything else. One cartridge will require the same voltage and more amps than another in that case.

[APE]

One more for the database:

Serial: UN271967644
Mobo: SNES-CPU-GPM-02

[gs37]

For what it's worth, ensure the SNES and TV are plugged into the same power strip. Preferably a high quality one that is well shielded. I think things can get weird if the grounds are different.

[sdekaar]

super famicom
s/n:s17057686
mobo:shvc-cpu-01

s/n:s1094115
mobo:shvc-cpu-01

[keropi]

I have a PAL SNES and a PowePak... never seen that stripe... will triple check now that I know where to look ...
I am using a genuine Nintendo RGB scart cable and the machine is a SNSP-001A (UKV) #UP13922479 (don't remember the mobo rev)

edit: it's SNSP-CPU-02