Best SNES revision
EDIT: For those of you who want answers the best SNES console is an RGB modded SNES mini/jr. It is a very easy mod, just make sure your RGB cable has capacitors in it. Here is a guide http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:snes2rgb.
If you want details then go to JimmyCrackCorn's post (post #3).
I highly recommend you enter your SNES serial number and chip versions in the database
My original post is below.
With the SD2SNES on it's way I have been trying to work out what the best SNES version would be.
The gripes I've found with SNES consoles are
1. The super annoying vertical line in the center of the screen
2. Non-1chip consoles don't display as nicely
3. SNES mini/jr have some low level differences which affects certain games
"There are "drastic" changes. Not so much stuff that's going to affect most games directly, but stuff that tells you the chip is radically different on the inside. Things like the SMP Timer Glitch vanishing, different behaviors of the TEST register, some DSP subtleties, the PPU being entirely different, and mid-scanline effects are totally different which affects games like A.S.P. Air Strike Patrol where the plane's shadow is almost invisible."
So from this I've come to the conclusion that 1chip standard size SNES consoles are the best in terms of picture quality. They have the crisp 1chip picture quality and no SNESmini/jr glitches. From what I can gather about the vertical line issue it affects different units to varying degrees, however I can't find any information about how to avoid it.
Your thoughts and opinions?
Last edited by gray.fullbusterzzz; 05-03-2012 at 09:13 AM.
Interesting. And cool thing is I just happened to buy The Lion King and can enter into the database.
I can be of some help since I am a lunatic who purchased every single SNES revision, and I am also very picky when it comes to visual stuff. All my consoles are RGB (even my NES) and I have an XRGB Mini Framemeister ($500) going to a DVDO Edge upscaler ($700) going to a 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma TV.
The RGB-02 is the rarest version (it came with the Killer Instinct bundle which is pretty rare; it's pretty much any SNES1 released in 1995). This came out after the 1CHIP version.
All the units from launch until the 1CHIP version have pretty crappy picture quality. The 1CHIP picture quality is wonderful in comparison. The RGB-02 which came out after the 1CHIP looks just as crappy as everything before the 1CHIP. This is especially interesting because the RGB-02 is the only model of the SNES model 1 that has the BA6596 encoder, which is the same encoder the SNES2/mini/Jr. has. Apparently the encoder is not what makes the SNES2's picture quality so nice, because it's in the RGB-02 which looks terrible.
The SNES2 (aka Jr. or Mini) has just as nice picture quality, if not better than the 1CHIP model 1. This is because on the 1CHIP SNES1 there is that ugly vertical line still present. This line is not there at all in the SNES2. Ok, I should be a little particular here...it's still there in the model 2 but is almost literally impossible to see it.
The easiest game to see the vertical streak is in Final Fantasy 3 US. It should be noticeable as soon as you turn the game on and see the white logo and then the stormy clouds. On the model 1, I see it in every revision. On the model 2 (the mini) I do not see it in FF3US unless I am using a Powerpak. Using a legit FF3US cart I own, or the Everdrive (good job, Krikzz!) the vertical streak can literally not be seen unless playing FF3US with the Retrozone Powerpak. So using the worst game for vertical streak detection on a PowerPak is the only way I get the vertical streak on the SNES2/mini/Jr.
For this reason alone the SNES2/mini/Jr. is easily the best revision. Unfortunately you need to mod the system to get RGB working but it's literally 4 puny wires. I was able to do it and I never soldered before in my life.
The 1CHIP model 1 is very good, yes. It's the only SNES model 1 I find acceptable. However, the vertical streak, coupled with a bit of picture noise (moving artifacts and lines within the thick vertical line) makes me never want to use it. It's unfortunate, since I like the look of the model 1 and all my friends think the model 2/mini/jr is bootleg when they first see it, but picture quality trumps all. If for some reason you HAVE to use a model 1 (again, I wish I could because I love the look of it and I have a storage unit that fits the model 1), the 1CHIP model is undoubtedly the one to get. But if picture quality is your #1 concern, definitely get the mini and RGB/s-video mod it.
Keep in mind since I am being very thorough here that there is a strange "ghosting" effect I get on the model 2. Other people get it to, but I literally did not notice it until someone pointed it out. It's almost impossible to see; I actually was only able to see it in Donut Plains 4 in Super Mario World at the very end of the level where the green mountains in the background are. You'll see a very faint outline of your character a few inches over from where he is standing. Again you'd have to look for it to notice it, and it's so rare to see it. I could not see it under any other circumstances. The thick vertical line is noticeable no matter what; and I can't ignore that thing, so the model 1 unfortunately is unusable to me. It really stinks because again I love the way the model 1 physically looks.
One other thing I will add in this long post is that I tried everything to remove the thick line from the model 1. First of all, it's present in every model including the rare RGB-02 and the 1CHIP. Secondly, I desoldered the RF module inside the SNES to see if that would help (it did not). I removed shielding, even added shielding, neither did anything. I have no clue what else to try.
An interesting angle to try to get the vertical line removed from the SNES system is probably focusing on the power the system is using. I was able to determine the vertical line is worse when using the PowerPak. Keep in mind that on an NES, the Powerpak also increases the jailbars! I think it more has to do with increased power draw than an actual interference; or else why would I only see the vertical line in the SNES2 using a PowerPak, but it's not there when using an Everdrive? Something to think about to lead us into the right direction!
Hope this post was helpful. I sure did spend enough money finding all the SNES revisions, so I figured I would spread the wealth (of knowledge).
I registered just to say, JimmyCrackCorn, you are amazing. Fucking magnificent.
You need to post more, possibly start a blog.
Last edited by JimmyCrackCorn; 04-19-2012 at 02:25 PM.
I'm just curious why you're running both the XRGB and the DVDO, doesn't the mini framemeister perform upscaling itself?
Originally Posted by JimmyCrackCorn
I actually don't have a good answer for you. I just don't really want to sell the DVDO Edge on eBay because I've been ripped off on eBay before. Also, the DVDO Edge takes the Dreamcast via VGA to RGBHV and the XRGB Mini doesn't. The DVDO Edge is also very good at upscaling anything not 240p.
Originally Posted by derekb
This is a very good theory! I have a 3rd party SNES power adapter I will try when I get home. I would be very surprised, though, because Nintendo usually has high quality stuff. I'd be surprised if a 3rd party power adapter would give a "cleaner" power. Unless you think it just needs to be higher amperage or something? Electronic noise is another very good possibility, though I'm not too sure because even retail carts produce it?
Originally Posted by MottZilla
The issue is that the PowerPAK probably draws more power than Nintendo intended when they produced the Power Supply for the SNES. I think the SNES only had a 850ma power supply which may be stressed more by the PowerPAK. If you instead use a power supply that can provide more like 1amp or more you might not see this issue.
Originally Posted by JimmyCrackCorn
The EverDrive may not have this issue because it uses Flash Memory which requires less power than the SDRAM in the PowerPAK.
i haven't any memory about this problem.
maybe an composite/svhs issue. :/
I was actually one of the ones to post on Sega-16's forum. I have a model 1 SNES that's the 1 chip model that is affected by the vertical streak. The first game I noticed it on was Actraiser. I don't have a powerpak/Super Everdrive yet. I'll be waiting for the SD2SNES
Does using a better more stable power supply help? If power draw is the issue, that should help. The other possibility could be electronic noise generated by the cartridge maybe.
LOL, I am almost buying a SNES2 because of Jimmy's post. :-P
Last edited by Rodrigo; 04-20-2012 at 03:39 PM.
It's definitely the best looking video quality wise, but if you want the SNES1 the 1CHIP is the best. Don't forget the SNES2 requires wiring up 4 wires inside the system. It's a very simple mod, though.
Originally Posted by Rodrigo
So far the best one is the 1CHIP version. I discussed this already over there: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic...450&start=1380
If you check the post from about 2 month till now their is a lot of feedback regarding this.
I'm also currently maintain this list to help people easily locate the SNES version they want by looking at the serial:
Btw if you guys can check the PCB version by opening yours SNES and sending me the info that would be cool :D
I still have a Jr but I am OK with S-Video with my big SNES to my 240lb Trinitron CRT. I can tweak the picture settings a little to try and get closer to the color and contrast of the RGB.
Certainly better than what I originally was gaming on in the 90s. I don't think black existed on the 20" Zenith in my parents room. But that thing did last for 20 years.
Could still be electronic noise of somekind. You could try shielding the powerpak cartridge to see if that helps. Afterall the cartridge actually lacks any RF shielding as I recall.
The regular carts and Everdrive don't have shielding either, though!
Originally Posted by MottZilla
Just tried a different 3rd party power supply and the issue was not resolved, unfortunately!
You don't understand. The PowerPAK and other devices may cause alot more RF interference. Regular carts obviously don't, and don't need any shielding. The PowerPAK was never licensed by the FCC and has no shielding. That doesn't mean that adding shielding couldn't cut down on electronic noise. It's hard to say.
If it's not a power issue though, then I would guess it's a shielding/noise issue.
Last edited by MottZilla; 04-23-2012 at 11:54 AM.
Okay then how about the fact that the noise is there with a legit FF3 cart? And why would the cart product noise on the SNES1 but not the mini?
Originally Posted by MottZilla
Also, I did try adding shielding, it made no difference.
Last edited by JimmyCrackCorn; 04-23-2012 at 08:00 AM.
I should probably point out that the original Super Nintendos had more power available through the cartridge port. The early SNES game copiers would draw power from the cartridge port to operate. Nintendo reduced the amount of power in later revisions to combat this, but the cart copier companies just started using external power supplies. If I remember correctly, when attempting to use a Super Wild Card copier on the later models the screen would flash like crazy while trying to load a game and then the loading would fail. This happened around the same time Nintendo also removed the plastic cartridge lock from the system.