Wii U, its the new _____________

[stevenjcampbell]

I seriously almost named that blank "dreamcase", but I hope that this doesnt happen. Before you accuse me of being a troll, just read on, please.
(I purchased an N64 and gamecube on day one. I bought a Wii within a month of its release... I love the Big N and my childhood was centered around them. I am not a troll)

I am intrigued regarding the WiiU... I have my boss telling me nintendo should quit and go third party ala sega, however if the WiiU can produce a metroid game that looks like mass effect 3 would I really be dissapointed?
How about a zelda game that looks like Uncharted 3 (or even 2?) That would be pretty remarkable to play IMO.

Reports are starting to surface as more developers get Wii U development kits that the specs of the Wii U are something like:

• Quad core 3.0ghz power PC
• 768 or 1024mb ram
• Unspecified AMD/ATI graphics
• The RAM is close to the CPU so as to increase bandwidth and system speed.

The problem many are pointing out is that this means the system is very very similar to an xbox 360 which has a 3 core cpu clocked almost identical, with 512 mb ram...

Some developers are saying without outing themselves of course, that the system will be less powerful than the 360 and the ps3, while some are saying it is somewhere around 50% more powerful than microsoft and sony's machines.

So here is the thing... I have owned every console nintendo has put out aside from handhelds of which I stopped at the GBA but only because my gaming habits changed.

I am just starting to get concerned that nintendo is relying extremely heavily on "innovations" as opposed to future proofing their hardware and machines to compete with everyone else.

The market leader in regards to technology for so long has disregarded tech to do their "own thing."

I remember vividly how the SNES beat down everyone in terms of graphics, sound and technical tricks... The n64 was admittedly better graphically than the Saturn/3do/playstation...

but now they just dont seem to want to go that route.

So does this become the last stand for them? Or do they end up focusing on mobile games that bridge the gap between the 3ds and that massive controller on the WiiU, forming their own sort of market and eco-system akin to what apple does with the iOS?

Thoughts?
These things will all become clear at E3 I suppose.

[Cyantist]

I remember vividly how the SNES beat down everyone in terms of graphics, sound and technical tricks... The n64 was admittedly better graphically than the Saturn/3do/playstation...

That was the bit wars. Graphics are important now (to kids who think better gfx = better games), but not as important as they were back then.

[LeGIt]

3GHz chips have been around for a decade yet you don't see anyone selling 4Ghz+ at retail. There is a point of diminishing returns, which means there comes a point when more raw clocks are no longer worth the effoprt to get them.

Now we have more work per cycle and more cores to run more threads which is just fine. Even under load, the xbox 360's CPU probably isn't hammered 100% and if so, not for long.

The possibility that the WiiU CPU spec may be similar to the xbox 360's is irrelevant - it will be the GPU doing most of the kicking.

Even if the WiiU graphics suck, so what? They do not need to have equivalent graphics to compete - the Wii *cough* Gamecube *cough* proved that.

In any case there was a point where visuals were in need improvement. These days good graphics are easy to reproduce but fun isn't.

[stevenjcampbell]

3GHz chips have been around for a decade yet you don't see anyone selling 4Ghz+ at retail. There is a point of diminishing returns, which means there comes a point when more raw clocks are no longer worth the effoprt to get them.

Now we have more work per cycle and more cores to run more threads which is just fine. Even under load, the xbox 360's CPU probably isn't hammered 100% and if so, not for long.

The possibility that the WiiU CPU spec may be similar to the xbox 360's is irrelevant - it will be the GPU doing most of the kicking.

Even if the WiiU graphics suck, so what? They do not need to have equivalent graphics to compete - the Wii *cough* Gamecube *cough* proved that.

In any case there was a point where visuals were in need improvement. These days good graphics are easy to reproduce but fun isn't.

I agree. I am also remembering that they claim the architecture in the WiiU is based off of watson, which is interesting and intriguing in terms of AI and other things that go into games such as pikmin and the like.

[7Force]

Even if the WiiU graphics suck, so what? They do not need to have equivalent graphics to compete - the Wii *cough* Gamecube *cough* proved that.

The old hardware has really hurt the Wii when it comes to third party development, since they can't just port the same game from PS3 and 360. A lot of companies don't seem to bother making a new version for Wii anymore.

These days good graphics are easy to reproduce but fun isn't.

Most Wii games don't have either.

[GodofHardcore]

Jaguar It's the new Jaguar. HUGE controller, Said to be really powerful but it isn't and The games won't be there. Just replace the num pad with a screen and it's the Wii U controller.

When will nintendo start making systems for gamers again?

[jp.]

Jaguar It's the new Jaguar. HUGE controller, Said to be really powerful but it isn't and The games won't be there. Just replace the num pad with a screen and it's the Wii U controller.

When will nintendo start making systems for gamers again?

As someone who owns a Jaguar and has owned it since a year or so after it came out, I couldn't disagree more.


Atari had virtually nothing in terms of brand recognition or mascots or big name games when the Jaguar came out, and they were never able to remedy this.


But Nintendo? Are you kidding me? The Wii sold millions of consoles and I said it for the 3DS (and was right) and I'll say it again:
Nintendo makes a Mario and a Mario Kart. System sells.

The end.

[stevenjcampbell]

Jaguar It's the new Jaguar. HUGE controller, Said to be really powerful but it isn't and The games won't be there. Just replace the num pad with a screen and it's the Wii U controller.

When will nintendo start making systems for gamers again?

they (nintendo) could argue that their games are for gamers. Just their core gamers.
Truth be told, if I as a consumer living through a quasi-recession with limited entertainment dollars need a machine, that machine will not be limited to SD resolution netflix and motion based BS when for $50 more I can get something like a 360 or ps3.

That's the main problem. they cater to their gamers.
That is fine, but so did apple who only experienced the insane growth when they started to realize that mainstreaming products (iPod that works with USB and WINDOWS) was a much better marketing position than a walled off apple only world.

Could you imagine if an iPad ONLY synced with a mac?

[Mack702]

Hmmm Can't wait until pre orders are ready I will be ordering 2 ;)

[APE]

Wii U, its the new "3rd place console because of a lack of games that aren't Nintendo franchises and shovelware".

[Mack702]

Wii U, its the new "3rd place console because of a lack of games that aren't Nintendo franchises and shovelware".

I totally agree but the fact it's Nintendo means a lot. We will atleast get MB and hopefully Paper Mario ;) it's going to be worth the price tag!

[stevenjcampbell]

I totally agree but the fact it's Nintendo means a lot. We will atleast get MB and hopefully Paper Mario ;) it's going to be worth the price tag!

Well the issue to me is the $450 investment to play two games (a Mario and maybe 2 zelda games)... Is it worth it? Maybe not at this point in my gaming life.

[Mack702]

Well the issue to me is the $450 investment to play two games (a Mario and maybe 2 zelda games)... Is it worth it? Maybe not at this point in my gaming life.

Yeap more than worth it but you seem to forget DK , Metroid , PM and so on. I am sure you will b uy one as well. We all will.

[la-li-lu-le-lo]

Even if the WiiU graphics suck, so what? They do not need to have equivalent graphics to compete - the Wii *cough* Gamecube *cough* proved that.

The Wii is not a Gamecube any more than a Naomi is a Dreamcast, or a Chihiro is an Xbox. It's the same basic hardware, but with much higher specs. In fact, there's a much larger difference in specs between the Wii and the Gamecube than in those other examples I gave.

Regarding the Wii U, I'm not incredibly excited about the controller. What I am excited about is the idea of Nintendo games with next gen (or maybe current gen) graphics.

[DefectX11]

Me and my friend are out of place I guess. I'm not worried at all for the gfx power for the U, and I'm going to love that controller. The sheer power in the controller itself allows for massive expansion and capabilities for future games.
Plus, Zelda in 1080p is... eye wateringly beautiful. I'm going to miss work, school, anything for E3 this year, as I'm hoping for a nice update on the U's release date/price/specs.
And really, who's to complain about the U's power? If it can handle 1080p, it's already outrunning current hardware. Really, people complaining about it doesn't make much sense- it's like giving something a score that hasn't even come out yet. I'm waiting for official specs, and even then i don't think I'll be complaining.
Oh and on topic with the Wii/Gamecube- The day I found out a Wii was (essentially) an OC'ed GC... Wow. I knew the GC was a powerful system, but not that good.

[la-li-lu-le-lo]

It's not overclocked, its a revised version of the CPU. They upped the clock speed from 486Mhz (GC) to ~729Mhz (Wii), making it close to the Xbox in terms of CPU power.

[DefectX11]

(essentially)

The Broadway is the big brother to the Gekko, with Brodway just being 20% more energy efficient due to a die shrink.
Close enough.

[TVC 15]

I remember vividly how the SNES beat down everyone in terms of graphics, sound and technical tricks... The n64 was admittedly better graphically than the Saturn/3do/playstation...

The SNES had some pretty advanced display hardware with the PPU's, being able to display 256 colours from a 15-Bit palette is nice, and the MODE-7 was interesting though it could be pretty gimmicky when not used properly, Mario Kart is a great example of it used properly, the Sound hardware however is pretty much down to opinion, some people love the SNES sample based soundtracks with its synth string hits, but the hardware adds annoying tinny reverb to everything.

However the Ricoh 5A22 (a customised 65c816 CPU) is as slow as molasses compared to the PC-Engine and Megadrive/Genesis, an 8-Bit bus and slow Rom speeds and Ram wait states meant the SNES cpu was pretty pathetic. Clock for clock the SNES CPU is generally faster at most instructions than the Motorolla 68000 at the same speed, but the CPU is so slow (2.68 - 3.5 Mhz) and also so bandwidth constrained, the Genesis generally had it beat, hence the whole "Blast Processing" marketing gimmick.

Heck bet you did'nt know the PC-Engines an 8-Bit processor, the HuC6280, which is also derived from the 65c816 like the SNES is actually faster at 16-Bit arithmetic (despite being 8-Bit internally) than then the SNES 16-Bit 5A22, due its higher raw clock speed 7~Mhz and less bottlenecks. The SNES to me seems like an engineering nightmare, they should have dropped NES compatibility or stuck with it, ir severely disadvantages the whole system.

So I think its pretty subjective as to wether the SNES had the better sound, and design, most of its "technical" tricks where in hardware, so weren't programming tricks per say with the PPU's for Mode 7, Graphics wise the SNES had an advantage with its higher master palette despite the PC-Engine displaying more colours at once, but often used a 256x224 resolution, the pseudo hi-res 512-224 interlaced resolution was used in handful of game menus, due to the aforementioned bottlenecks in the system, and a great deal of Megadrive/Genesis games were in 320x240 resolution, bandwidth and sprite per screen actually increased when the Resolution was increased. Graphics aren't necessarily all about Colour, theres also resolution to account for. Why do you think most Shoot 'em ups and action games found a home on the MD/PCE? Easier to extract performance from, though later SNES coders better optimised there games and came out with some excellent technical demonstrations for the system.

As for the N64, thats down to taste, grainy warpy Saturn/PSX polys and textures vs blurry shit smeared textures and fogging. Each to there own.

That was a massive derail, but It irate me when people assume that Nintendo used to have bleeding edge hardware, and use examples like the hobbled SNES.

[HEX1GON]

I'm pretty sure the Wii U will still sell, although it's not really powerful (developers are saying), power doesn't mean anything. It's the content that counts, depending if it fails with 3rd party support *cough* Lynx *cough* it will die. Some places have started pre-orders like EB Games, saying it will release at $600!!! Now that's a lot of money for XBOX 360 power for the next gen.

If we take a look at the 3DS it hardly sold on release, once Nintendo woke up to it they released 2-3 Mario games and a Zelda game and it actually hit off after that.

Someone mentioned the Jaguar, well it does seem like it at the moment.

[GodofHardcore]

As someone who owns a Jaguar and has owned it since a year or so after it came out, I couldn't disagree more.


Atari had virtually nothing in terms of brand recognition or mascots or big name games when the Jaguar came out, and they were never able to remedy this.


But Nintendo? Are you kidding me? The Wii sold millions of consoles and I said it for the 3DS (and was right) and I'll say it again:
Nintendo makes a Mario and a Mario Kart. System sells.

The end.

Not gonna curse you out on this one. There's just something about the Wii U that tells me, This isn't going to be a success. Even Nintendo fans are Poo Pooing this thing as are current Wii owners. Though I think comparing the Wii U to the Jaguar is an insult to the Jaguar.

Yeah, I have an anti Nintendo Bias

they (nintendo) could argue that their games are for gamers. Just their core gamers.
Truth be told, if I as a consumer living through a quasi-recession with limited entertainment dollars need a machine, that machine will not be limited to SD resolution netflix and motion based BS when for $50 more I can get something like a 360 or ps3.

That's the main problem. they cater to their gamers.
That is fine, but so did apple who only experienced the insane growth when they started to realize that mainstreaming products (iPod that works with USB and WINDOWS) was a much better marketing position than a walled off apple only world.

Could you imagine if an iPad ONLY synced with a mac?

I only know 1 person who is getting a Wii U and he's only getting it 1. Because he believes the hype about it being more powerful than what's out now and 2. His Anti XBOX and Microsoft bias is so strong he'll buy anything that isn't Microsoft branded blindly.

He's not one of Nintendo's gamers that's for sure.

And I was just thinking, What Innovative games HAS Nintendo put out since the DS? I'm starting to get the impression All Nintendo games are pretty much the same.