Sega Saturn Clock gen (50/60hz) chip leg snapped

[Xeauron]

Hi all,
It's been a little while since I posted (been lurking).

I've basically got a major disaster on my hands here and wouldn't mind some suggestions if possible.

Basically the 50/60hz switch mode broke on my Saturn a few days ago, it wouldn't switch between the two modes. Also the console identifies itself as PAL-4 in the BIOS settings menu instead of NTSC when in US or JP mode.

I resoldered pin 1 on the clock gen chip and that seemed to fix the problem, however it returned again a couple of days later. So I've been back in to re do it again. Was as careful as I could be.

Long story short, pin 1 has now broken off completely as it was in a fragile state to begin with.

Pic:
http://imgur.com/dzG9N

My question would be is this fixable? Is it possible to carefully drill into or file away the top/side of the chip above where the pin was to reveal something I can solder on to?

Or is that all she wrote?

Thanks in advance for any advice folks....

[DefectX11]

There may be a very small it of metal where the pin goes into the chip. The best I can suggest is putting a bunch of flux there and hoping for the lead to bond a wire with the small portion of metal left. I have tried this before, with success on a Gamecube.

Drilling away at the chip sounds risky, but don't take it from me- I have little knowledge of how a standard IC would look like in the inside. Maybe eBay's got an extra chip with legs that you can replace this one with.

[Xeauron]

There may be a very small it of metal where the pin goes into the chip. The best I can suggest is putting a bunch of flux there and hoping for the lead to bond a wire with the small portion of metal left. I have tried this before, with success on a Gamecube.

Drilling away at the chip sounds risky, but don't take it from me- I have little knowledge of how a standard IC would look like in the inside. Maybe eBay's got an extra chip with legs that you can replace this one with.

Cheers for the reply.

I do have some 'no clean' flux (in pen form) from when I reflowed my ps3. (well had it on standby anyway)

My initial thought is to use some emery cloth or a very small file and spend a long time filing the top of the chip down to where the metal contact would be to reveal a bit more of it then soldering a thin (probably RJ45 internal) wire onto there if possible. But like you, I've no idea of the internals of a silicone IC. I've also never used the flux pen before (haven't needed to before now) so I've no idea how it would work (advise on using flux welcome!).

There isn't anything sticking out of the side of the chip I don't think, well that I can see anyway.

Ugh....worst thing that could have happened.

Not sure how difficult soldering a whole new IC on there would be ether, pretty damn hard would be my guess...

VERY pissed off, gonna get some sleep now anyway. Will be back on tomorrow morning when I'll probably be going through my tool box looking for something to file the bastard down with.

[DefectX11]

Flux will help when used properly. It helps to bond the lead solder with the metals that come in contact. Stops the blobs that form when you solder without flux- and those blobs might just jump over a couple pins and be a bitch to remove (unless you have a solder sucker).

Generally it's a good thing to use with precise soldering jobs. Makes for nice, clean joints.

[APE]

I've fixed region mod screw ups on similar before. Grind off the silicon casing until the inner wiring is just barely exposed, flux and tin the wiring and solder a wire to it.

Not for the feint of heart or for anyone who has not practiced this on dead hardware. I wouldn't suggest anything but a Dremel tool (or other rotary tool) as it'll go quick. A file introduces many possible gouges into the board.

[kaput]

I've got no personal experience of this situation, and I don't say this is the "right" way to do it, but I think I'd try something close to your file/emery cloth/drill idea. I'd probably start by doing a notch right above the leg using a needle file, as deep as possible without removing any material I don't want to remove, and then use an X-acto knife or equivalent, or perhaps a needle, and try to very carefully chip away the rest of the material covering the leg, until enough metal to get a strong solder laid bare.

Another possible way could be to try soldering as it is now, and once you've tested that it works, secure the resulting very weak joint from eventual strain with a blob of hot glue.

[Bad_Ad84]

Send it to me and I will fix it for you.

Also, I am not familiar with this way of modding for 50/60hz? I have never touched that chip when modding them

Edit:

Just googled it, thats not how I do the mod on that particular motherboard. But I can fix it if you like.

[Xeauron]

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies.

Bad_ad, I'm completely skint at the moment mate and will be for the forseeable future unfortunately (I'll check parcel prices though anyway). Otherwise it'd be on it's way to you mate.

I'm sensing an impending disaster, since this is the only power tool I own:
http://imgur.com/a/lTWoe

If you look at the first pic, in the light of day I can see that there is a tiny reminence of the leg, however it isn't sticking out at all.

My first thoughts are to drill very carefully downwards into that corner of the chip then finish the job with emery. Then basically flux the hell out of it and hope I can get the RJ45 internal wire to bond with it.

As it stands at the moment, it's the switchless mod, and holding the reset to switch between 50/60hz flashes the power led but nothing else occurs, it also only identifies itself as PAL now in the BIOS settings screen.

I'm not too sure about trying to solder anything directly to the side of the chip for fear of frying the whole thing.

I dunno, I'm torn. What do you guys think?

I've fixed region mod screw ups on similar before. Grind off the silicon casing until the inner wiring is just barely exposed, flux and tin the wiring and solder a wire to it.

Not for the feint of heart or for anyone who has not practiced this on dead hardware. I wouldn't suggest anything but a Dremel tool (or other rotary tool) as it'll go quick. A file introduces many possible gouges into the board.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's good to know that this is definitely possible to fix though. Thanks...

I've got no personal experience of this situation, and I don't say this is the "right" way to do it, but I think I'd try something close to your file/emery cloth/drill idea. I'd probably start by doing a notch right above the leg using a needle file, as deep as possible without removing any material I don't want to remove, and then use an X-acto knife or equivalent, or perhaps a needle, and try to very carefully chip away the rest of the material covering the leg, until enough metal to get a strong solder laid bare.

Another possible way could be to try soldering as it is now, and once you've tested that it works, secure the resulting very weak joint from eventual strain with a blob of hot glue.

Hi mate,
I don't have access to hot glue at the moment but yeah, we're thinking along the same lines though. As you can see from the above link I posted the drill I have isn't ideal, though I do have some emery, so I might drill down a little then finish with emery. *sigh*

[Bad_Ad84]

Collectplus - £3.49 each way
£10 to fix it

£17 total.

Edit:

Or a trade? :)

[Xeauron]

Collectplus - £3.49 each way
£10 to fix it

£17 total.

Edit:

Or a trade? :)

Is that Royal Mail?

I'll have to see if I can gather the funds together towards the end of the week. Though I'm tempted to have a go myself, just take my time with it... AAARRRGGGHH!!!!

Trade wise, there isn't much else I'm after to be honest (was after a chipped wii at one point), but I just want my model 1 saturn fully functional again...Though technically it is fully functional, just in crappy 50hz.

[Bad_Ad84]

I mean you give me something to the value of the repair. Not after anything in particular though.

And its with collectplus - www.collectplus.co.uk

You book the delivery, then drop it off at a local shop in the scheme. they deliver it to a local shop by me and I collect it. Costs £3.49 for up to 10kg

[Xeauron]

I mean you give me something to the value of the repair. Not after anything in particular though.

And its with collectplus - www.collectplus.co.uk

You book the delivery, then drop it off at a local shop in the scheme. they deliver it to a local shop by me and I collect it. Costs £3.49 for up to 10kg

Oh! LOL sorry, my brain is a bit frazzled today.

I've only got 2 900x model PSXs lying around at the mo...

On the plus side I've found a collect point right around the corner from me.

[Bad_Ad84]

I will PM you my postcode and the local store to select.

[Xeauron]

That's weird! The local collect point address its pointing to is an MOT center...

I'm confused...

Going to see if there are others...

[Bad_Ad84]

Copy/paste from PM (so other people dont get confused).

MOT centre is perfectly possible.

Basically they are local shops that have a "PayPoint" system installed (same thing you get gas or mobile top ups from) and have signed up to be a collection/drop off point with collect plus.

Usually local news agents, but there is no restriction on what type of shop as far as I know.

[H360]

First off, you're using a wire that is way too thick. That is probably why it snapped.

Dont loose you're mind and drill a hole through it now. It is fixable with the right tools.





*Bad will hopefully fix it for you. He is one of the really skilled users here.

[Xeauron]

Hi haunted, I didn't perform the mod originally, raylyd did. I've already been in to fix it three times, the last time was the final straw when it snapped unfortunately...

But yeah you're right, the wire used for that part of the mod is way too thick.

[Druid II]

Don't panic.

Pin 1 on the clock gen is what tells the chip to work with 14.318mhz crystal (when pulled high, in NTSC consoles) or 17.734mhz crystal (when pulled low, in PAL consoles). Other than that it has NOTHING to do with PAL/NTSC selection, it just sets what clockspeed the machine runs on relative to the installed crystal. Pulling it high on a PAL machine would make the system run at 35mhz instead of 28mhz for example.
A design snafu on the VA1 PAL consoles has this pin connected to the 50/60hz selector jumper as well. That connection has to be severed for 50/60hz selection to be possible. This is why mod guides mention raising this pin and grounding it.

But the trick is: that pin pulls itself low. So on a PAL machine you can just cut any connection leading to it and forget about the entire thing.

So, you can leave it as is. The problem with your mod lies elsewhere.

[Bad_Ad84]

I just cut the trace and connect it to ground elsewhere and then use the jumper point for the 50/60hz selection. I didn't realise it had internal pull downs though... Saves me some time in future.

Offer still stands to fix it at the same price, even of that includes reworking the whole mod over from scratch.

[Druid II]

Yeah, on VA1 PAL machines you just cut a trace and put the 50/60 switch on the SW4 slot.
VA0 and VA SD parts only need the switch on the SW4 slot.