Weird Flea Market Finds (Pirate Famicom)

[Bomberhead]

So I found 6 Pirate Famicom carts at the Swap yesterday. I was hoping someone here could give me insight on these. There are a lot of pictures so stick with me.



Game 1: 1943

This one seems pretty straight forward. The game looks like the Famicom version of 1943. the PCB looks like a standard famicom PCB only instead of the large chips with legs soldered in place, there are smaller "Micro" chips that seemed to be glued to the beard with some kind of black resin.




Game 2: BESKETBALL

The first thing i noticed about this cart, other than the fact that they spelled "Basketball" wrong on the front of the cart, was the fact that it weighed a lot more than the other carts. Later when i opened it up to clean it i seen that it had 2 uncovered windowed Eproms on it. Seeings how they use UV to erase Eproms, i was surprised this game still worked. It seems to be "Double Dribble", and the NTSC-U version to-boot. I loved this game growing up. I would always choose Chicago. Anyway, I quickly took a couple pictures, then got a couple small pieces of masking tape and covered the windows. (No worries, It still plays just fine)




Game 3: Pascar (Purple)

This is another Eprom cart. This cart is not just funny looking, it has a switch on the front that designates what game you want to load. Either "Arkanoid" or "Zunou Senkan Galg" which is a neat Japan exclusive scrolling shooter. However, Arkanoid seems to be the U.S. version. This cart is oddly shaped and held together with a screw, unlike all other famicom carts i've seen. The Eproms came covered this time around. A quick google search tells me this is a "Pascal" cart that might have came packaged with a Famiclone. Funny, because it says "Pascar" on the side,.... not "Pascal". Higher Res scans of the cart can be seen HERE and HERE.




Game 4: VS?!

A quick google detective work tells me this game is called "Musashi no Ken - Tadaima Shugyou Chuu" and i have never seen it before in my life. Its pretty fun though. you run around with a sword and a dog, and whack shit. I got my ass whooped at the end of level one. anyway, this cart feels cheap and the print on the label is a little blurry. The pcb is a lot like the "1943" cart with the smaller chips.




Game 5: Japanese Wrestling 64K

I looked around online for Japan exclusive wrestling games and found this one on a fan review site, they refer to is at "Sumo Wrestling" but not sure that it is actually the game of the game. Its pretty easy, all you have to do is mash the same button real fast and you will win. i did a VS fight, Right hand against Left hand. Right won. The PCB looks like VS and 1943. the case is black and a bit more sturdy than the others.




Game 6: Super C ???

This has to be the coolest NES cart i have seen. Its jet black and minimalist. Other than the token generic warnings embossed on the back, there is not a single word on this cart. Its a non U.S. version of "Super C". I have no idea what region this is from. The pcb is a lot like the other pirate carts however this time its on a 72 pin board inside a NES style cart. However it wouldnt play in my NTSC-U NES, actually, none of these games would. I had to disable the lockout chip to get these games to play. so what was the purpose of making a 72 pin NES style pirate cart if it could not play on an NES?





Well, there they are. If you know anything about these or have any ideas where i could look go get more info on them i would appreciate it. Thank you.

[ASSEMbler]

Pretty standard stuff apart from the charming one with the switch.

LMK if you ever plan to sell it,, I love pirate stuff.

[XxHennersXx]

Perhaps it doesn't work on your revision of the NES, just like Camerica carts had switches on the carts for different NES board revisions.

[Calpis]

The only notable thing about them is that at least a couple are Korean.

A switch is the most straight forward way to make a multicart. Here the only game with actual production value is Super Contra which will contain a MMC3 clone, the rest are basic discrete games.

Camerica games with a switch enable/disable the lockout ("10NES" according to Wikipedia n00bs) defeat circuit. It's necessary for top loaders which don't contain a CIC and I guess instead tie the signal to a power rail which would draw too much current and potentially damage stuff. All of these games should work on any NES with a proper 60->72 pin converter, all of which should have a CIC clone or defeat circuit.

Having to cut the NES' lock CIC suggests that your converter's key CIC is broken.

[Alchy]

"10NES" according to Wikipedia n00bs

?

What do you call it, then?

[Calpis]

I call it "the CIC chip", AFAIK everyone did before a year or two ago. The algorithm/firmware is supposedly named 10NES (I think cited from Nintendo Power) but the chip designator is always CIC and physically inscribed 3193A, 6113B1 etc depending on the region and firmware revision.

When people say "brah, you can fix your blinking NEZ by disabling the 10NES" I gag. Maybe these people call their computer "the Windows", not likely though.


Oh yeah, one more pet peeve of mine: UNCOVERED EPROMS DON'T NEED TO BE COVERED. This is a noob crusade. EPROM cells "regrow" only under a specific spectrum of UV; they're difficult to erase with direct daylight (days-weeks), much less ambient room lighting, much much less enclosed in a cartridge. When EPROM have a label or sticker covering the window, it's usually there to deter field upgrades/show copyright notice/show officiality/for warranty purposes, not to block sunlight which a PCB should not be left under anyway. I would hate for someone to damage existing location or revision labels by layering with electrical tape because they think uncovered windows need covering. This isn't to say you shouldn't backup your EPROMs, you should, since irrespective of exposure EPROM cells will only hold their state for so long before needing refreshing.

[Alchy]

Seems like a strange thing to object to. It's the 10NES chip because it contains the 10NES code, that's what it does.

Who cares, really.

[XxHennersXx]

I call it "the CIC chip", AFAIK everyone did before a year or two ago. The algorithm/firmware is supposedly named 10NES (I think cited from Nintendo Power) but the chip designator is always CIC and physically inscribed 3193A, 6113B1 etc depending on the region and firmware revision.

When people say "brah, you can fix your blinking NEZ by disabling the 10NES" I gag. Maybe these people call their computer "the Windows", not likely though.

uh, I heard it called the 10NES chip when I made a tutorial on youtube about 6 years ago...

[Bomberhead]

Oh yeah, one more pet peeve of mine: UNCOVERED EPROMS DON'T NEED TO BE COVERED. This is a noob crusade. EPROM cells "regrow" only under a specific spectrum of UV; they're difficult to erase with direct daylight (days-weeks), much less ambient room lighting, much much less enclosed in a cartridge. When EPROM have a label or sticker covering the window, it's usually there to deter field upgrades/show copyright notice/show officiality/for warranty purposes, not to block sunlight which a PCB should not be left under anyway. I would hate for someone to damage existing location or revision labels by layering with electrical tape because they think uncovered windows need covering. This isn't to say you shouldn't backup your EPROMs, you should, since irrespective of exposure EPROM cells will only hold their state for so long before needing refreshing.

I hope you are not referring to me in all of this. Because nowhere did i claim to be on a "Noob Crusade" or did i state that i "Layered" or "Destroyed" anything. i simply used a small piece of "masking tape" not "Electric tape" to cover the windows.



Then again this can all be a misunderstanding.

But yeah. Im sending Assembler a pm now. i think these items might go unappreciated with me.

[Calpis]

I hope you are not referring to me in all of this. Because nowhere did i claim to be on a "Noob Crusade" or did i state that i "Layered" or "Destroyed" anything. i simply used a small piece of "masking tape" not "Electric tape" to cover the windows.

No, not you in particular. Everyone does it. Even if these ROMs had labels it wouldn't be a terrible loss to alter or damage something by a bootlegger. I say there's a crusade because any time EPROM are mentioned chances are someone who is unlikely to understand how any ROM actually works will pedantically blurt that it needs to be covered ASAP.

Regarding the CIC, I read up and in the patent one diagram labels the entire IC 10NES though it's ambiguous whether it's really talking about the hardware (which is abstracted and something Nintendo did not invent) or the algorithm (which they probably did). Still, this is if anything an internal name, and possibly not even the final name or is a purposeful disambiguation which are common in patents. I'm sticking by CIC as that is what it's clearly labeled is consistent across Nintendo platforms. My gripe with the whole thing is that while "10NES" is probably not the appropriate primary name for which it's known, if at all regardless of whether it's the hardware, it persists and propagates through word of mouth and Wikipedia. Should the SNES CIC be called "10NES" too? They are derivative chips. I realize that this is pretty anal but that comes with the territory of talking about computer chips.

[Alchy]

/makes a mental note to start calling the SNES CIC "10SNES" whenever Calpis is around.

:p

(On the EPROM issue, I'd definitely cover any that I had on a bare PCB, at least, if the data was important. Why take the risk?)

[link83]

I call it "the CIC chip", AFAIK everyone did before a year or two ago. The algorithm/firmware is supposedly named 10NES (I think cited from Nintendo Power) but the chip designator is always CIC and physically inscribed 3193A, 6113B1 etc depending on the region and firmware revision.

As far as i'm aware it was only the N64 lockout chips that are actually labelled 'CIC'. I'm not sure where the chip designator would be located for the NES/SNES but unless the official Nintendo Service Manuals referred to it as a CIC then i'm not sure if either 10NES or CIC would be a valid name for the chip in all three systems. I guess a more accurate name might be 'security chip' or 'security processor' as it is called in some of Nintendo's patents.

[APE]

Calpis is right 100%. Using the numbers of how much UV radiation hits the Earth's surface on a sunny day at the equator and the amount needed to completely erase an EPROM it'd take much more than casual exposure to erase such a thing.

That said, I'd still cover them as a matter of principle. Shit happens and I'd rather be safe than sorry if the difference is a $0.001 piece of tape.

Besides, everyone knows that tape is also there to help keep the electrons in.

[Calpis]

/makes a mental note to start calling the SNES CIC "10SNES" whenever Calpis is around.

Who knows, it could be "10SNES" internally but thankfully SNES and N64 people online still call them CIC.

As far as i'm aware it was only the N64 lockout chips that are actually labelled 'CIC'. I'm not sure where the chip designator would be located for the NES/SNES

NES boards designated it CIC:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5260/...73c9815dde.jpg
http://www.greatlakesvista.com/rgb/n...NonWorking.jpg

NES carts designated it CIC:
http://assemblergames.com/images/nes/turrican_3.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4...alfantasyi.jpg

SNES carts designated it CIC:
http://www.snescentral.com/0/0/0/000..._PCB_Front.jpg
http://www.omgrofl.com/wp-content/up.../stuntrace.png

N64 CIC are actually inscribed CIC but AFAIK they're pretty far removed from the NES ones in firmware and I'm assuming hardware.

Why risk it?

Sure most people are competent enough to cover the window without tearing a label or using something that will leave ridiculously sticky residue, but why take THAT risk? I'm for protecting people from themselves, both for their benefit and everyone else's in case a future owner of an item is preservation inclined. I know I've made enough dumb mistakes over the years that could have been avoided with someone else's opinion.

It's also important for people to remember that covering a chip isn't a substitute for dumping and reprogramming. That's really the only true precaution you can take to guarantee another decade (or so they say) of integrity, and digitally archiving a ROM will preserve the data at least, forever. Of course this could carry the risk of a bad soldering job, but most games worth preserving with EPROM will have sockets.

[ave]

Just for the records - Super C is the Japanese version called "Super Contra" and the Japenese Wrestling game is "Tsuppari Oozumou" made by Tecmo. It's one of the regular guests on x in 1 pirate carts though.

[Trenton_net]

I dunno about other people, but I've always called them CIC chips. Especially when in context of copier devices. No one goes and says "Does your copier have an 10NES/10SNES chip in it?" Nor does any of the documentation say that.

EDIT: And who goes "You need to sack a cart to desolder the 10NES/10SNES" anyway? It's always CIC. Same with pass-through devices, you never go "You need to plug in an official game to use the 10NES/10SNES on it". You always go "You need a game with a CIC chip".

[cabbage]

I would guess these all came from a Korean collection.

The sticker that's peeling off the back of the 1943 cart is written in Korean and shares the same "Quality Guaranty" as Mushashi no Ken and the Sumo game. Not sure if these ones were made in Korea or for the Korean market or simply brought in from China or someplace else.

The Pascal cart with the switch is by a company called Yong-shil (see red text by the elephant) that made famiclones -- some rather interesting ones in addition the standard recolored Famicom body-types, will try to dig up some pics later -- and produced their own series of carts to go along with them. I have seen some 4-in-1's that look very similar but have two switches instead of one as yours has. I think they were pretty successful at one point and made lots of carts and several famiclones. I've never been able to figure out their strange numbering system(s) though...

The Double Dribble cart is obviously Korean, with the korean word for basketball on it above the "besketball." Korea saw Famiclones (obviously taking famicom carts) as well as the officially licensed Hyundai Comboy, which took NES-style carts. So there are both famicom and NES pirate carts floating around from Korea--hence the nice Super C pirate cart.

Anyway, some nice finds. There's surely some history to be found about these and the companies that produced them with a bit more digging.

[Bomberhead]

I would guess these all came from a Korean collection.

The sticker that's peeling off the back of the 1943 cart is written in Korean and shares the same "Quality Guaranty" as Mushashi no Ken and the Sumo game. Not sure if these ones were made in Korea or for the Korean market or simply brought in from China or someplace else.

The Pascal cart with the switch is by a company called Yong-shil (see red text by the elephant) that made famiclones -- some rather interesting ones in addition the standard recolored Famicom body-types, will try to dig up some pics later -- and produced their own series of carts to go along with them. I have seen some 4-in-1's that look very similar but have two switches instead of one as yours has. I think they were pretty successful at one point and made lots of carts and several famiclones. I've never been able to figure out their strange numbering system(s) though...

The Double Dribble cart is obviously Korean, with the korean word for basketball on it above the "besketball." Korea saw Famiclones (obviously taking famicom carts) as well as the officially licensed Hyundai Comboy, which took NES-style carts. So there are both famicom and NES pirate carts floating around from Korea--hence the nice Super C pirate cart.

Anyway, some nice finds. There's surely some history to be found about these and the companies that produced them with a bit more digging.

Awesome! Thank you for the info. I was surprised when the guy at the swap meet offered them all to be for $3. I don't know what the value of these carts are. But they are neat shelf fillers and conversation pieces.