The unmoderated NEO GEO thread

[cyberguile]

yeah, only four posts and you can´t even tell I didn´t posted solely on this topic and none of my four posts where actually directed to dion. Hardly I would be part of a community that welcome scammers with open arms as long as they are polite with each other.

Better post your username there if you want to keep up with the impression you know what are you talking about.

Your life must be very sad not being able to trust anyone.

Well, all this story at least made me remember why I had forgotten my account on neo-geo.com.
I tried to post and explain my point of view politely there, here is what I got:

"@CIB, I'll give you the TL;DR version of what Geddon said.

Shut the fuck up already about this tired ass dead horse."

I laughed.

If it's a real Q/A session then why not answering all question clearly? No need to elaborate, a yes or no is just fine.

So far, the dude has been answering all of my questions (elaborating when he knew, telling he had no clue when he didn't) and already got some really interesting informations.

The SNK forum here is DEAD. There is basically tumbleweeds in that forum. Even digital press has a more active SNK speak than here.

The only real topics that keep getting daily views/posts are his own, everything else is a ghost town.

What exactly was contributed to the community? His sales figures and how he made money as well as how much money he made and also how big the profit margins were on the wholesale/retail side?

One thing he could contribute would be to at least tell us the confirmed NGH numbers for the protos he says he has. That way we can at least mark off the reserved NGH numbers. That would be a good first step.

Yup, the SNK forum was totally dead for two years and now ressurected thanks to him.
I understand you being very sad, as a SNK fan, that neo-geo is again being talked about here.
Maybe you don't give a shit about the sales figure but... it does actually interest some people.
As for the NGH numbers, why would he do that if he doesn't want to ? It's the exact same shit with the court stuff. The guy knows he's right (and retro PROVED that by downloading the court paper), everybody says he's a liar. But he doesn't give a shit about what people think and does not give you what you want. I really don't see the problem.

I don't think the roms getting dumped would affect the collector value of the carts.

You think totally wrong.
Every time a prototype is being released, it's value dramatically drops.
Of course, as you said, the proto remains a one-of-a-kind and still is worth good money, but never as much as before the release.

[metallizer]

TOPIC, not THREAD. The topic being Dion. Your posts span two threads - this one and his other one.

What does it matter who I am over there? I haven't visited the forum to any great extent in years, because I was fed up with the petty squabbling and snobby attitudes.

Jeff Kurtz is a nice guy - I helped him with his component mod years ago, and he helped me with something in return. I haven't even spoken to him in a long time, though, unfortunately. Other than him, there weren't many members I really bonded with over there - but here, it's quite the reverse.

Besides... my involvement, or lack thereof, in ONE forum does NOT mean I am not, or was not, part of the Neo Geo crowd. Your one forum does not dictate whether someone is a Neo Geo fan or not. For your information, I was associated with the local importer (and one of the few in the UK back then) of Neo Geo items back in the day, before the SNES was released over here.... more than 10 years before I joined the NG forum.

If you REALLY wanted to know who I am, I'm sure you could narrow it down from the information I've already given you.

bzzz, wrong! dion would be the subject of my posts, the topic would be admin/moderators behavior towards a scammer.

About whoever you were at neo-geo.com, you´re the one that brought it up in the first place, why do I have to guess who you were? Can´t you simple tell, it has it be crypty and dodgy? You must have figured I´m not jeff kurtz so your clues don´t apply to me.

and that´s not what I commented the begin with, I just made an observation on the fact that opinions where being issued without any back knowledge on the matter.

[LeGIt]

Is he a scammer though?

OK so he put a sticker on somthing and someone got pissed. He was the distributor and applies the sticker to all titles but as he was the official importer it doesn't make the item(s) any less collectable as every other thing got the same treatment.

OK so he printed off piss poor quality stuff. That in itself is not a scam just poor reprographics service. Don't get me wrong I'd want something better than an almost homemade laser printed piece of shit, but bottom line again he was the official importer and that was the official product - people still got their games whch is the most expensive part, correct? If you don't want crappy printing don't buy it from someone renowned for crappy printing, buy direct from Japan...

Now if he actually scammed someone instead of having piss poor customer service or really shitty quality printing I'm all ears but to be honest other than the $150 car damage story (which I personally wouldn't pass on the cost for something so trivial, shit happens) I haven't heard of him doing a non-delivery and if he did it is never from the victim... but a warped friend of a friend of a friend of a friend story.

At the end of the day I've seen or heard nothing that would constitute proof in a court of law that he ever scammed anyone. Dion has a bad rap and maybe he deserves it, but he is also innocent until proven guilty and if he is guilty, can a man not be reformed or get a second chance? His business is dead. Your beef is with the business, not him. Granted Dion may have ran the business and you dislike him because of it, but the business itself is an entirely separate legal entity and after all he is here as an individual... so treat him accordingly.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

[Cyantist]

I have one question on the inserts. Why bother making them? Surely the games were worth more with their original inserts and such. Not to mention profit lost from using high quality Ink and paper. Doesn't seem smart from a business point of view.

[ASSEMbler]

Probably a "pride" thing, leaving one's mark on something.

[metallizer]

people still got their games whch is the most expensive part, correct?

that´s where you get it wrong.

take a look at kizuna encounter

a bare MVS cart will cost you 15 USD
the japanese homecart 150 USD
the euro version 15000 USD

every cart above has the same code, was made from the same roms and will play the same no matter what. What differs a 150 bucks japanese homecart from the euro $$$$$$ release is just the paperwork.

So when the paperwork gets damaged / replaced with laser print / stamped or it´s a converted cart, it´s a big deal since thats is basically what are you paying for when you get a homecart. If you wanted to just play the game, you better get a bare MVS cart for next to nothing.

[Cyantist]

that´s where you get it wrong.

take a look at kizuna encounter

a bare MVS cart will cost you 15 USD
the japanese homecart 150 USD
the euro version 15000 USD

every cart above has the same code, was made from the same roms and will play the same no matter what. What differs a 150 bucks japanese homecart from the euro $$$$$$ release is just the paperwork.

So when the paperwork gets damaged / replaced with laser print / stamped or it´s a converted cart, it´s a big deal since thats is basically what are paying for when you get a homecart. If you wanted to just play the game, you better get a bare MVS cart for next to nothing.

the sad truth of Neo-Geo games.

Probably a "pride" thing, leaving one's mark on something.

I think if it wasn't for that pride eventually costing playmore hundreds of thousands in legal fees a partnership could have been on the cards.

[Dion]

I have one question on the inserts. Why bother making them? Surely the games were worth more with their original inserts and such. Not to mention profit lost from using high quality Ink and paper. Doesn't seem smart from a business point of view.

Genre correct inserts
We started making the inserts because snk made many errors on the genre striping.

All games were to be color striped as following:
Action: Orange genre stripe
Sports: Green genre stripe
Puzzle: Yellow genre stripe
Variety: Pink genre stripe
Fighting: Red genre stripe
Shooting: Blue genre stripe

A good example is the Metal Slug series. 1 and 2 have a blue stripe, X had a red. Total screw up.
Baseball Stars 1 had a green stripe, but Baseball Stars 2 had a red stripe.
there are plenty more I can name.

And since we had the rights and were fully authorized to repackage the aes cartridges with NGF inserts, with permission of SNK, all the inserts had a disclaimer box on the back stating that fact.

I'm sure someone can post a close up photo of the back of an NGF insert.
(if not, I will do it later)

[sneth]

People here do not know that Tonk is honest and reliable as hell, and goes to bat for the right purpose. anyone scammed will tell you how tenacious Tonk can get to make shit right.

Dion has and always will be an attention whore. The coloring had nothing to do with the reprints. He was screwing buyers and bloating his ego all at once. NGF was chased out of the Neo community years ago, and is now feeling a lil old and lonely.

and dammit, i wasn't going to contribute to this mess...

[derekb]

Dion seems like a very upright fellow.

edit: jk, everything he posts comes off as cocky

[spoonman]

the sad truth of Neo-Geo games.


I think if it wasn't for that pride eventually costing playmore hundreds of thousands in legal fees a partnership could have been on the cards.

It's not just Neo-Geo games. People are also reprinting NES games, boxes, instruction manuals. There have been at least 2 fake Nintendo World Championship that sold for thousands of dollars. Boxes can now be easily printed. Factory seals, including the "H-Seam" are becoming easier to replicate. People just need to educate themselves on what they plan on spending money on. It makes you wonder how many of those VGA graded acrylic boxes might actually be reseals. Even the pros can't tell the difference it seems.

[derekb]

could someone enlighten me on the injunction stuff mentioned earlier in the thread?

[Hewitson]

[cyberguile]

rofl

[LeGIt]

Nice pic but I have half a mind to slap you for posting it in the wrong thread... I moved it here anyway so... keep the Q&A thread for Q&A please.

[Buyatari]

For the most part I like this place. If this site was mine there are some things I would do different. I'm sure everyone would do something different and no two would be exactly the same.

That being said I would handle this situation the same way that Assembler is. I don't know who this guy is and I don't know much about Neo Geo. However, I do want to hear what he has to say way more than I want to hear another person ask the same question about inserts and stamps. I really could care less about hearing the same questions over and over.

If you have something to point out then point it out. If he avoids your question or you think he is lying you should be free to state your view and back it up if need be but that should be the end of it.

Do we really need this?
Only to be followed up by someone else asking the same thing?

Q - Did you do this?
A - No I did not
Q- Did too.
A - Nope
Q- prove it
A - you prove I didn't
Q- I asked first
A - I thought of it before you asked
Q- You didn't answer the question
A- Yes I did
Q- Did not

ARRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
<<DELETE>>

Q - Assembler why did you delete my well thought out discussion on the topic at hand?

[Twimfy]

For the most part I like this place. If this site was mine there are some things I would do different. I'm sure everyone would do something different and no two would be exactly the same.

That being said I would handle this situation the same way that Assembler is. I don't know who this guy is and I don't know much about Neo Geo. However, I do want to hear what he has to say way more than I want to hear another person ask the same question about inserts and stamps. I really could care less about hearing the same questions over and over.

If you have something to point out then point it out. If he avoids your question or you think he is lying you should be free to state your view and back it up if need be but that should be the end of it.

Do we really need this?
Only to be followed up by someone else asking the same thing?

Q - Did you do this?
A - No I did not
Q- Did too.
A - Nope
Q- prove it
A - you prove I didn't
Q- I asked first
A - I thought of it before you asked
Q- You didn't answer the question
A- Yes I did
Q- Did not

ARRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
<<DELETE>>

Totally agree. TonK and co. may have issues with Dion but they fail to realise that the rest of us don't give a shit, if we did we'd be over at Neo-Geo.com crying about it.

I for one just want to hear about Dion's history and experiences, his photographs while a little egotistical show the kind of life he's led off the back of selling Neo Carts, it's all really cool and quite a unique story.

He's started to sell some stuff to forum members here. TonK and friends are screaming scammer to us and proclaiming that he'll bring the forum to its knees. Time will tell, we have a feedback system and a good network of well connected people. If he is a scammer we'll soon know about it.

As for the repeating questions. As far as I can see he's provided evidence for pretty much everything, court papers, photographs, links you name it.

Yes he's a little eccentric, yes he likes the look of himself a little too much, but in my eyes he seems like a really top guy and I will continue to hold that opinion until a long time respected member of this forum tells me otherwise and with good reason.

Coming on this board with less than 10 posts and screaming scammer with no solid evidence, topped off with a few derogatory remarks, isn't going to win me over.

[retro]

If you really have an issue with someone, by all means point it out in the correct manner (feedback or the unmoderated thread), then move on and let the rest of us judge for ourselves.

I like to think that we're usually a fairly peaceful community - we're all (more or less) adults and can behave as such.

Even if someone has done something regrettable in their past, they can still make amends. I can appreciate Dion's reasons for coming here, and I think he's been pretty frank replying to our questions about his history. He's shown remarkable restraint considering the abuse that has been flung about.

To be honest, I'm quite ashamed of the behaviour of some members over the past several days - it's not at all what I have come to expect of the community. Anyone should be welcome if their intention is to have civil discussions and share information with the community.

I hope that we can put it all behind us and move on.

[Alchy]

He's shown remarkable restraint considering the abuse that has been flung about.

Whatever else anyone has to say about the man, this is true. Personally I find such levels of egotism repulsive, and the delusions of grandeur are amusingly absurd, but in terms of his manners he's been a gent and nobody can say otherwise.

[awbacon]

I post alot more over at NG.com than I do @ Assembler, but I've read through the entire threads Dion put up, or that involve him.

No matter what I think of what he did / didn't do (and I don't have the time, energy, nor concern to debate it), I am sure he does have some interesting information to share. He has, and that's cool with me.

Tonk...I've bought things from you in the past (or I think I have) and you seem like a decent enough guy. I know for a fact you love the Neo-Geo

Don't call people faggots. It's not cool in any sense of the imagination. While I may not be gay myself, my sister-in-law (well not really, I haven't married my gf yet, but dating for 5 years qualifies haha) is married to a woman, and some of the nicest people I know are gay.

When you say something like "faggot", to me you lose any power your argument may have. It's childish, and has no place on any forum / in any situation.

Stick to gender / sexual orientation neutral expressions like "dickhead" haha