The unmoderated NEO GEO thread

[spoonman]

My Neo-Geo website has always stayed out of the Dion/NFG business, but as I posted in the other area, when I ordered my Metal Slug USA from NEO-GEO Freak I was never offered the original insert or Japanese manual. I received a color laser copy of the insert and manual which I didn't even feel I could legitimately sell on eBay without backlash from the buyer.

To talk to Dion without letting people inquire about their practice of reprinting inserts and manuals seems to be a bit absurd imo. Many people were very unhappy with their purchases and it's a big part of his history now, like it or not.

Dion said he is going to send out these inserts to everyone who bought a game from him and wasn't asked originally. Last time I asked him about this (3rd time actually) he said he's still trying to find a box to ship it in. Do I really expect him to follow through on this? Hmm...

[Trenton_net]

I think there has been stuff said that's regrettable on both sides. On the one side, I do believe in following the rules in a consistent and impartial manner. When you start arguing the person, instead of the subject at hand, your already fighting a loosing battle. So I don't really condone the unnecessary bad language.

But on the other hand, I don't think airing out your bad laundry is a good thing ether. I would have probably taken things off-line and worked it out there.

That being said, regardless of all the regrettable stuff which did happen, I think the end result would have been the same. Given his avoidance of important questions, the bragging of other seemingly unimportant facts, and his overall attitude and demeanour, I think there was enough rope that he would have hangged himself anyway. And this feeling comes from someone who has nothing invested in the Neo-Geo scene. I can only imagine how I'd feel if I did have some invested!

EDIT: Spelling mistakes. Doh!

[Christer-swe]

As this is not a question, I'll post this here. I enjoyed Dion's answers, and like ASSEMbler wrote, his attitude. It's been very enjoyable, despite some "faggot" comments. I don't know anything about the situation with NGF, he may have been in the wrong, but here on this forum, it is not he who has been behaving badly.

[cyberguile]

Went to the neo-geo forum to read about the "dion came to assembler" thread.
Funnily enough, the guy didn't have to post other there for members to start insulting each other. he's got some obscure super-powers :) (or the thread pretty well summarize the "neogeo collector spirit")
Been on the videogame network for 12 years and read about how dion stole from 10 people like one thousand times.
I do not believe the guy when he says he bought the whole SNK stock. Why ? Because I know about telegames (UK), people who also bought from the SNK final sale. And I'm not talking about some hardcore neogeo fan buying 5000 games at once to resell them from his garage. Telegames is a wholesale society that had probably a 200 000 games (not only neo geo, of course) BNMIB stock three years ago when they started a massive ebay sale (btw, all the sealed neo geo common games you will find nowadays on ebay come from this telegame ebay sale. I know a couple of wholesalers that bought thousands of games on various systems from them such as moeroshop, french vg dealer).
BUT, the dude pushed his neo-geo obsession to buying 5000 games at once so I know he's probably got some intersting informations to share about neo-geo history.
And moreover, the way he posts is pretty damn funny making the threads interesting to read.

[LeGIt]

I've never owned or cared to own a Neo Geo (well except for a Neo Geo Pocket Colour with no games) and by extension I didn't really know or care who Dion is/was too (no offence) I'm sure Dion is a minor celebrity somewhere but it is not going to make me give a shit or want to see his picture every few posts, sorry.

That said provided he abides by the rules he has every right to be here as does everyone else. There is a feedback forum... if people actually purchased from him and had anything to add you would think they would post it there but noo... it is either friend of a friend of a friend crap or at the very least still in the wrong place and you should all know better.

If he is a cunt, let it be known that he is a cunt, but have the decency to have the correct qualificaton to comment and raise your concerns in the approapriate place. In fact even wth Dion's double or even triple posting (which is annoying!), despite his alleged past he is one of the few people in his Q&A thread doing anything right...

Anyhow...

I hope Dion enjoys his stay and we enjoy his answers.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

[Xian Xi]

As this is not a question, I'll post this here. I enjoyed Dion's answers, and like ASSEMbler wrote, his attitude. It's been very enjoyable, despite some faggot comments. I don't know anything about the situation with NGF, he may have been in the wrong, but here on this forum, it is not he who has been behaving badly.

Stick to your guns man. Are you against gay slurs or not?

[Dion]

As this is not a question, I'll post this here. I enjoyed Dion's answers, and like ASSEMbler wrote, his attitude. It's been very enjoyable, despite some faggot comments. I don't know anything about the situation with NGF, he may have been in the wrong, but here on this forum, it is not he who has been behaving badly.

I do try to make the reading a bit more interesting than your average person making a reply.


Here is a good part of the NGF History:


SNK Press release NeoGeoFreak (click link to read details)
(no more untruths or doubt can be spread)


<<December 04, 2003

As a limited exception to the Permanent Injunction, the video games on the list below, and only those video games, were purchased from SNK Corporation Japan, and were sold by Neogeo Freaks/NGF USA with the permission of SNK Corporation Japan. These games were sold by Neogeo Freaks/NGF USA with the corrected English AES inserts with the permission of SNK Corporation Japan.>>

Some interesting games listed:
Item 44: Ironclad (we had/sold this 10 years before the wii dump)
Item 169: Warlocks of the Fates



Chris forwarded me this message to post:

> What sums it all up is very simple. Playmore posted on their own website
> that we had the rights to distribute pretty much every neo geo (protos
> included) at one point. We embarassed them in federal court and ended up
> getting paid bigtime. The confusion lies in the word "injunction" like
> this is something bad. In reality, it is moot, we happily agreed to the
> injunction when the case was settled.
> Ask yourself - what does the injunction do?
> We had and sold our stock, there was nothing left to
> "distribute", and we no longer had any interest In dealing with Playmore.
>
> Also, if you read the injunction, you will see it says we are not allowed
> to "distribute copyright infringing items", and since they posted right on
> their own website we had the rights to distribute all these games, what
> does the injunction do? Nothing.
>
> Its called trying to save face after spending close to $1M (estimate) to
> fight a case they lost pretty much across the board as a general
> consensus.
>
> That's pretty much it.
>
> ChrisR



Logic prevails
Once you remove the emotion from those 5 people who constantly attack NGF, you can clearly see that everything we said and did has always been true and accurate. Take away the emotion and logic will prevail. (logic was never capable of happening at ng.com)(ng.com has even banned the words neogeofreak and ngfusa, and all links from being mentioned. total censorship at that site).

[Christer-swe]

Stick to your guns man. Are you against gay slurs or not?

I was referring to someone who called people "faggots", however that wasn't clear since I forgot quote marks, but that's fixed now.

[retro]

***Original Thread title: My Thoughts on Recent Events in SNK forum, what your opinion?Now we have Dion coming here and from What I see, he didn't really want to contribute to the community.

Allow me to quote Dion's very first post here:

I just found this place and I wanted to join in and say hi to everyone, especially the neogeo fans that have gathered here.

As some may know, I don't join and post on forums that allow flaming, childish banter, or places that allow people to allege and say unwarranted and undeserving comments So, this site looks very promising and I am looking forward to have some interesting discussions.

Since many years have passed, and by now many people are doing home-made artworks, conversions, and hopefully people have finally grown up,.... so maybe now we can focus, and stay focused, and really discuss the neogeo, and seeing if we can teach and learn from one another.

I'm very excited to already see a lot of familiar names have joined here.

So friends, feel free to ask my any questions and I'll do my best to answer and help in any way I can.


thank you,
Dion Dakis

How is that not wanting to contribute to the community?

Some people asked simple question about the possibility of releasing ROM binary of some unreleased Neo games. Thoses questions never got answered although it's quite simple to answer: YES or NO.

Dion stated several times in the NGF history thread (and both he and Kevin stated that it was NOT the thread to be asking the question, but it continued to be asked) that he had already answered this question elsewhere. Any intelligent person would have tracked down the other thread (titled "Lets Talk Neo Geo Prototypes" - surely the title suggests it is a better place to ask about ROMs of unreleased games?) to see his answer. They would have found the following:

We have sold Warlocks, Crossed Swords 2, Last Odyssey, Bang Busters, to our select group of private collectors. And it is a special select few.

As for a mass release, it's pretty much not in the cards for a full NGF release (with insert, sticker, and full manual). We simply don't have the stock or the time for the conversions (all releases need a cart case, boards, and outer box).

This suggests that either he has sold the original prototypes, or he has in the past sold copies of the games. If he has sold the prototypes, how could he release the games??!?

He's clearly stated that he's unable to and/or not interested in doing a release as an official cart. Fair enough.

Now, this has been said before time and time again, but it seems it has to be said again:

If someone owns a prototype of an unreleased game, it is THEIR PROPERTY. We do not have any right to see it or have a copy of it. WHAT SOMEONE DOES WITH THEIR PROPERTY IS THEIR BUSINESS. Sure, ask if they'll show you. Ask if they'll release it. If they say no (as Dion has), then DROP IT.

Also, wouldn't he be breaking the injunction if he distributed illegal copies of the ROMs without permission? I know I wouldn't want to do that, and I'd get quite annoyed if people kept asking me to do so. Dion has remained very calm. People keep asking him, he has the right to ignore those questions.


To Juste...

I'm sorry if you feel there have been unfair practices in the forum. As I mentioned before, I got caught up in what I felt to be an unfair practice. I had my gripe and then left it at that. I didn't go on like a dog with a bone - it looks childish. Look, life is unfair. You get pipped to the post in all sorts of situations. People snipe you on eBay. People make private offers for something that's for sale in auction, and the seller decides to withdraw the item and accept. Jobs get advertised internally before going to the public. And yes, the owner of a website may well call first dibs on an item. Yup, it sucks. Get over it.

I like to feel that things on the forum are fair. We can all usually behave like adults and have civilized discussions. Even Kev's decision to buy an unreleased game and release it to the community is ultimately in our best interests - it means we know we get to experience it.

To Tonk

You've been here a relatively short time compared to some of us, but some of us knew you from NG forum of course, and even those who didn't have come to like and respect you, especially with your moderator duties.

When you came here, you were fully aware that there have been squabbles between this forum and the NG forum in the past. Those stem way back to the second phpBB forum we had, before this one (yup, at least 6 years ago). It is, frankly, quite petty - as is often the case over there. As such, Kev has kept a wide berth from them, and left them to their own devices.

I appreciate that you had a grievance with Dion. As has been stated before, there are correct procedures to take for that. I am sure you must have something similar to our Trading Standards and Citizens Advice Bureau that could offer advice. Ultimately, you could have taken him to small claims court. Again, I appreciate that travelling to the court may be time-consuming and expensive, but you can file the papers online to start with. Having said that, if your grievance really was about a sticker, then I do find that rather petty - especially as Dion has stated that Playmore posted information pertaining to them being the authorized distributors. That said, I can understand your not being happy with the quality of the product received, and I would certainly have hoped you could have got reimbursement without going to court.

I don't feel that your petty arguments with him in the discussion were the right way to go about either resolving the matter with Dion, or letting people know your dissatisfaction. As Kevin pointed out, there are proper channels for rants and bad feedback. As a moderator, we looked up to you, and I would have expected you to act appropriately. I am very disappointed that you resorted to childish name-calling. As your NG forum moderator said (initially to Hewitson):

In all honesty though, were all big boys now and calling him a faggot makes you look like a child. By resorting to that (as well as even recognizing him) you are giving him exactly what he wants. have you not realized that after all these years?

EDIT: and in the end many of you here want to feed into the BS as well. It takes two to do this sordid little dance and many of the members here have been willfull participants in low brow shit slinging & name calling, .

Dion has as much right to be a member here as anyone else. If he's going to lie to us, we'll call him out on it. You don't need to accuse him of being a liar every time he speaks.

Incidentally, I posted a link to more documentation regarding the outcome of the injunction. If you had really been searching for it for that long, I'm surprised none of you went to the PACER website, where you can find legal documents and download them for a small fee (although, last time I looked, they don't actually charge you until your account is at $5). You would most likely have found the documents you required there, and saved yourself the embarrassment of looking like an idiot.

Dion doesn't have to prove he owned particular games. That's his business. I would say that court documents are pretty good evidence of ownership, though, and can't understand why you don't accept them as such. Just because you're jealous that he chose to horde them, doesn't mean you can call him a liar until he proves otherwise. It's his decision whether he shows you or not. Do I have the right to call you a girl, and refuse to believe otherwise unless you show me your dick? Of course not - that's an invasion of privacy. And, for the record, I really don't want to see your dick, and I'm not homosexual. It was an example.

It was nice having you around, but I'm sorry, you're not the only Neo Geo expert. You have to admit that Dion does know his stuff. Whether he'll tell us the truth or not remains to be seen, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Also, admit that your precious Shawn isn't an angel, either. He's certainly not helped repair the relationship between the two forums. which is a shame, really.

I'm sorry to hear you've fallen out with Kevin. According to your screenshots, that means you're down to only 7 friends. Aww, bless!

[Xian Xi]

How is that not wanting to contribute to the community?

The SNK forum here is DEAD. There is basically tumbleweeds in that forum. Even digital press has a more active SNK speak than here.

The only real topics that keep getting daily views/posts are his own, everything else is a ghost town.

What exactly was contributed to the community? His sales figures and how he made money as well as how much money he made and also how big the profit margins were on the wholesale/retail side?

One thing he could contribute would be to at least tell us the confirmed NGH numbers for the protos he says he has. That way we can at least mark off the reserved NGH numbers. That would be a good first step.

[Christer-swe]

The SNK forum here is DEAD. There is basically tumbleweeds in that forum. Even digital press has a more active SNK speak than here.

The only real topics that keep getting daily views/posts are his own, everything else is a ghost town.

What exactly was contributed to the community?

You pretty much answered that yourself.

[DarthCloud]

Dion stated several times in the NGF history thread (and both he and Kevin stated that it was NOT the thread to be asking the question, but it continued to be asked) that he had already answered this question elsewhere. Any intelligent person would have tracked down the other thread (titled "Lets Talk Neo Geo Prototypes" - surely the title suggests it is a better place to ask about ROMs of unreleased games?) to see his answer. They would have found the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dion
We have sold Warlocks, Crossed Swords 2, Last Odyssey, Bang Busters, to our select group of private collectors. And it is a special select few.

As for a mass release, it's pretty much not in the cards for a full NGF release (with insert, sticker, and full manual). We simply don't have the stock or the time for the conversions (all releases need a cart case, boards, and outer box).

This suggests that either he has sold the original prototypes, or he has in the past sold copies of the games. If he has sold the prototypes, how could he release the games??!?

He's clearly stated that he's unable to and/or not interested in doing a release as an official cart. Fair enough.

Now, this has been said before time and time again, but it seems it has to be said again:

If someone owns a prototype of an unreleased game, it is THEIR PROPERTY. We do not have any right to see it or have a copy of it. WHAT SOMEONE DOES WITH THEIR PROPERTY IS THEIR BUSINESS. Sure, ask if they'll show you. Ask if they'll release it. If they say no (as Dion has), then DROP IT.

Also, wouldn't he be breaking the injunction if he distributed illegal copies of the ROMs without permission? I know I wouldn't want to do that, and I'd get quite annoyed if people kept asking me to do so. Dion has remained very calm. People keep asking him, he has the right to ignore those questions.

I've read both thread and what you just quoted just answer the possibility of releasing cartridge replicate and in no way answer the question about releasing prototype ROM. So my point is about the fact he didn't replied to the question. It's easy enough to say NO. It's his absolute right to not release it.

This was just an example of one question that got dodged..

If it's a real Q/A session then why not answering all question clearly? No need to elaborate, a yes or no is just fine.

And btw I don't like the aggressiveness tone I see in your answer. I just said my thought on the situation.

[metallizer]

oh shit, now that ASSEMbler decided to keep the scammer around for a history lesson, while he might be stealing from members of this forum, we have late bandwagon jumpers turning their wiseass 2 cents on a subject they know nothing about.

:lol:

[spoonman]

The only way you are going to see those roms dumped would most likely be a community raising a large sum of money to purchase the board and dump it for the public.

This has been done several times in the past by Nintendo-Age. I'm assuming the collectors of these originals have a pretty high price in mind. It's too bad really because there are a lot of Neo-Geo enthusiasts who would like to be able to play a part of unreleased history.

I don't think the roms getting dumped would affect the collector value of the carts. IE they would still be a "one of a kind" type of collectible for collectors. Just as Metal Slug being dumped & released on tons of collections for consoles hasn't affected the value of the AES cartridge. I'm not sure the rare rom owners feel the same way though.

[Twimfy]

I requested the Neo-Geo forum be created and at the time everybody said no because it would just turn into a flaming pit.

It was opened and until now it's been fairly peaceful and I've learnt some pretty interesting things, yes things I could have learnt from Neo-geo.com but I won't go there anymore. I spent a few days there as a new member taking my first steps into the world of collecting AES material and I got my ass handed to me in only a few posts. I said nothing to upset anyone...the place is full of assholes.

ASSEMblergames.com as we all know, is a great place to hang out, everybody gets their chance and everybody gets respect....until they start pissing on other peoples.

Dion is someone I'd never heard of before, I'm not really interested in Neo politics, I just like playing the games. That said what he was posting was really interesting to me. I had a great time reading his posts, that is when they weren't interspersed with what appeared to be a forum based police interrogation.

He doesn't HAVE to answer you questions. You're not owed anything. If he doesn't want to talk about it he doesn't have to. If he has truly wronged you financially or otherwise, pursue ASSEMbler's suggestion in his PM with Tonk and A. Call the Police, B Go to the small claims court.

Flaming or aggressive posting has never solved anything, surely you should know that by now. We all slate Neo-Geo.com and yet we've started kicking up a fuss like they do and even made an unmoderated thread to let loose our Neo rage.

Anyway as I said at the beginning of this post I asked for this forum and I got it. I don't want it taken away. I'm not a mod or admin so there's nothing I can actually do to stop you moaning.

But if you want to bitch and moan about Dion, NGF, spine-stickers, logos and how "mint" a copy of Kizuna encounter is down to the case's molecular structure. Then fuck off to Neo-Geo.com and don't ruin this sub-forum.

[Alchy]

I don't think the roms getting dumped would affect the collector value of the carts. IE they would still be a "one of a kind" type of collectible for collectors. Just as Metal Slug being dumped & released on tons of collections for consoles hasn't affected the value of the AES cartridge.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that for unreleased games. They do dramatically lose value when publicly available.

[retro]

I've read both thread and what you just quoted just answer the possibility of releasing cartridge replicate and in no way answer the question about releasing prototype ROM. So my point is about the fact he didn't replied to the question. It's easy enough to say NO. It's his absolute right to not release it.

This was just an example of one question that got dodged..

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. He didn't dodge the question, he answered it:

There is another thread that talks about unreleased games and I already answered that question.

"As I said before, we have no extra stock and that is why we aren't offering any more mass releases. We basically sold out many years ago. I now have less than 100 carts available, and maybe 100 cds, and that's it."

I don't know if you're French Canadian and not a native English speaker, but what he's saying here is that he answered the question before and quoted his answer - the answer quoted clearly is explaining that he won't be releasing the games. Sure, he may not have understood that the question meant (illegally) releasing the ROMs for download, but is seems clear to me that he does not want to do that. As I stated before, that may well put him in violation of the injunction.

Please don't take offence to my assumption that English may not be your native language. I merely wanted to attempt to clarify my reasoning (and hopefully what Dion said) there, in case you're not a native English speaker... as many board members are not. Everyone is more than welcome, of course, and I am happy to explain things better where necessary to make those members feel welcome. I actually have the greatest respect for our foreign members - conversing in a foreign language with both native speakers and those who have a limited command of the language is no mean feat! And if you're not of the French part of Canada, my apologies! :)

He did then answer you and say that you're asking in the wrong forum, but he'll answer, which he did. It kept being brought up, at which point Kevin stated that this matter should be asked in private, this is not the place to ask for ROM releases.

This is Kevin's site, I feel we should respect his wishes. I'm sure Dion feels the same, hence why he didn't reply further.

Xian Xi's attitude of "if you care about the Neo community, give us these games" was inappropriate. Like I said, he doesn't have to do this if he doesn't want to, and we shouldn't pester him about it. Sure, it's frustrating to know there's a game out there that you can't play... but if you want it that badly, rather than demand it get dumped for free, offer an obscene amount of cash for it!! ;-)

If it's a real Q/A session then why not answering all question clearly? No need to elaborate, a yes or no is just fine.

It can be hard to keep up with questions. Say 10 people post questions since you last posted. most of them ask 2 or 3 questions. That's 30 questions you have to deal with. As you're writing this reply, which could take you half an hour, another person posts. It's very easy to miss a question.

Whilst it's nice to have all questions answered, I don't blame someone for not asking every single one - especially where repetitive.

And btw I don't like the aggressiveness tone I see in your answer. I just said my thought on the situation.

I'm sorry you see it that way. There actually was no tone to my reply. Text generally has no tone, tone is in the way it is delivered (usually verbally). Having said that, this is an unmoderated thread for flaming - should I wish to, I could call you all sorts of blue words and get away with it (don't worry, I have no intention of doing so)!! I was merely stating that Dion had expressed his wish to contribute to the forum, indeed he started threads offering information, and he had answered the question about release. He did offer his apologies for missing some questions, and go back to them. Just saying! ;-)

oh shit, now that ASSEMbler decided to keep the scammer around for a history lesson, while he might be stealing from members of this forum, we have late bandwagon jumpers turning their wiseass 2 cents on a subject they know nothing about.

:lol:

I'm sorry, but who the fuck are you?! 4 posts here, and all on this one topic because you dislike Dion. Hardly an outstanding member of our community, are you?

Anyway, who were you talking about? Me? I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken if you think that.

[QUOTE = neo-geo.com stats from my user page]Join Date
06-20-2001[/QUOTE]

Don't be so quick to judge people. We're not - hence why Dion is being welcomed here.

[metallizer]

I'm sorry, but who the fuck are you?! 4 posts here, and all on this one topic because you dislike Dion. Hardly an outstanding member of our community, are you?

Anyway, who were you talking about? Me? I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken if you think that.

[QUOTE = neo-geo.com stats from my user page]Join Date
06-20-2001/QUOTE]

Don't be so quick to judge people. We're not - hence why Dion is being welcomed here.

yeah, only four posts and you can´t even tell I didn´t posted solely on this topic and none of my four posts where actually directed to dion. Hardly I would be part of a community that welcome scammers with open arms as long as they are polite with each other.

Better post your username there if you want to keep up with the impression you know what are you talking about.

[DarthCloud]

No offense taken retro, but sentence like "Any intelligent person would have tracked down the other thread " and CAPS does add some tone to text message :P ;)

Btw enough neo for me, I prefer peaceful Nintendo land ;)

[retro]

yeah, only four posts and you can´t even tell I didn´t posted solely on this topic and none of my four posts where actually directed to dion. Hardly I would be part of a community that welcome scammers with open arms as long as they are polite with each other.

Better post your username there if you want to keep up with the impression you know what are you talking about.

TOPIC, not THREAD. The topic being Dion. Your posts span two threads - this one and his other one.

What does it matter who I am over there? I haven't visited the forum to any great extent in years, because I was fed up with the petty squabbling and snobby attitudes.

Jeff Kurtz is a nice guy - I helped him with his component mod years ago, and he helped me with something in return. I haven't even spoken to him in a long time, though, unfortunately. Other than him, there weren't many members I really bonded with over there - but here, it's quite the reverse.

Besides... my involvement, or lack thereof, in ONE forum does NOT mean I am not, or was not, part of the Neo Geo crowd. Your one forum does not dictate whether someone is a Neo Geo fan or not. For your information, I was associated with the local importer (and one of the few in the UK back then) of Neo Geo items back in the day, before the SNES was released over here.... more than 10 years before I joined the NG forum.

If you REALLY wanted to know who I am, I'm sure you could narrow it down from the information I've already given you.

*EDIT*

No offense taken retro, but sentence like "Any intelligent person would have tracked down the other thread " and CAPS does add some tone to text message :P ;)

Btw enough neo for me, I prefer peaceful Nintendo land ;)

Well... it wasn't you who kept asking now, was it? ;-) Therefore, it probably wasn't aimed at you.

Haha, Nintendo IS more peaceful.... usually! ;-)