The unmoderated NEO GEO thread

[_SD_]

None of the NGF MVS - AES conversions, nor their English AES releases (inc. KoF '00) are on the Master List, and they never will be. N-G.com simply refuses to beleive that NGF had the rights to distribute/repackage/convert these titles and that's just the way it is.

I'd really like to see a truly complete non-biased list, that includes all the NGF and !Arcade! titles. At the end of the day, pretending that these games don't exist is kind of silly....

[DarthCloud]

I guess this list is for people who want to stay away from NGF stuff.

Anyone is free to collect what they want, I see not problem with that.

[LeGIt]

Actually, We have pictures of Dion, Do any exist of Adol, Alchy and Retro? I might give it a go on fireworks at school tomorrow.

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums...ead.php?t=1611

retro and I are both pictured there, incindentally 2004 was the first year I became a fat cunt after gaming hard and drinking lucozade like it was water in 2003 - don't be fooled though there is some muscle too :P

It took a while to find the thread, I was actually looking for another reason: I saw sneakypeanut on MSN and he looks like a younger, slimmer version of retro, so he is either retro's secret brother, love child or quasi-lookalike regardless :P

Anyhow I believe buyatari posted the cover art to manipulate, enjoy!

[Cyantist]

Why are you starting shit again?

Go and look at the NGF thread - you'll find artwork there. Shared by Dion. Go look, then come back and apologize to him.

As I've told you before, you are entitled to precisely FUCK ALL. Quit begging. If you want something and the owner doesn't want to share it for free, fucking buy it or keep your mouth shut. That goes for prototypes, betas, artwork - whatever.

That's werejag for you pretty much.

[BM-Viper]

At least he finally is done trying to get that Dolphin logo? He's moved on to scans of neogeo stuff. :P

[Annoying_one]

i got the scan of the dolphin logo. i can wait years for stuff im looking for and i have. all due time.

[wheelaa]

It has got to be one of the strangest lists ever seen - note how pretty much every official SNK MVS to NGF AES conversion has been boycotted by not being dated as an official release when the SNK Playmore list shows the rights to distribute games?

NGF distributed an english version of Garou Mark of the Wolves, but for some reason they accept that as official? Didn't NGF sell KoF2k1 and 2k2 to N-G and that list also accepts them as official?

Note how many of the titles NGF probably sold to N-G they accept as official are convenietly for sale in the N-G store... but many similar out of stock titles are conveniently unofficial?

The bigger hypocrisy still is the same people who didn't believe NGF were genuine went and bought from then anyway - WTF! If you think somone is a fraud and you don't want fraudulent products, you don't go and buy the bullshit off them, then complain you got bullshit! What kind of sense does that make?

The lack of rights claims earlier make no sense. They say NGF have no rights, yet they list some titles whch NGF produced in english form as official titles.

Am I missing a trick or does no rights mean NO rights, or do they just mean no right to do MVS to AES conversions, but rights to reprint japanese games into english with corrected inserts and ultimately failed to articulate this point? Even then no proof was ever offered to support their allegations so :(

Legit, your getting very confused.

SNK released many of those titles in English format. SNK printed the insert and manual and sticker etc.

So there is a legit US Garou with all parts made by SNK.

Distributing an SNK made product without altering it in any way, where's the problem. In those instances NGF was akin to a store that merely distributed SNK made product. Unless of course Dion wants to claim the US Garou insert sticker and manual are made by NGF. I can assure you they aren't. (If you ever seen an NGF insert in the flesh, aside from the NGF logos giving it away, the quality is far less than SNK produced product) In those instances NGF was a distributor of SNK made product. SNK MADE PRODUCT!

The whole issue is that NGF made their own product, either from scratch suing MVS chips, or possible eproms, or just by trashing a legit JP insert and printing off an NGF created US one. Inserts, carts etc that were not made by SNK. Those are not listed. I guess this thread really must be a complete clusterfuck if you haven't aprpeciated that.

So US Garou, with all parts made by SNK. Doesn't matter who sells it, it's SNK made product 100%.

What NGF did for lots of carts was to destroy the SNK made inserts and make their own, with NGF logos emblazoned all over the insert etc. Or for those released where SNK did not make a US verision, they freaked JP carts (see the Pulstar frankenstein shit a few pages back).

So you are missing a point here. Yes NGF sold some English homecarts. What that lists boycotts (although English KoF2K is listed I believe) is any product that solely has NGF inserts etc, is solely an NGF creation.

NGF may have been the exclusive seller on KoF2001-02 US, I don't know. I have owned both carts though and neither had any NGF taint on them. Where KoF2K differs is that SNK made the product, then NGF destroyed all the inserts and then made their own. So any KoF2K US has the NGF touch to it, whereas say a US Garou doesn't (although I'm sure they freaked some heh).

So there are numerous US games with SNK made inserts. NGF may or may not have sold them, but if there is an official SNK made product that can be obtained without NGF shit all over it, except KoF2K, then it is listed. Simply cannot get more official than that. Made by SNK, every piece untouched, unaltered.

So for example there is the SNK made Metal Slug US. Then there is the NGF 'corrected' insert MS US. One is a classy collector piece, the other a piece of shit.

Another example. Waku Waku 7 - the only SNK made version was JP. Any US version (ie insert) is solely an NGF creation, therefore it is not listed. NGF may or may not be official depending on what one believes, there they believe not so only SNK manufactured stuff is listed. ie games that one can obtain with no NGF on the insert.

I always found it odd that some of these so called NGF US versions don't have English manuals. What fucking good is a cart / insert in the US style and a manual in Japanese? Freaked shite.

For anything that SNK didn't make themselves, these 'official conversions', they are not listed for all the reasons touched upon in this thread.

So for example the Zupapa run, solely made by NGF. Irrespective of what rights they may or may not have had, the end product was not made by SNK at all. It was a piece of shit cobbled together by scumbags (imo). The only SNK made Zupapa is on MVS. So MVS Zupapa is listed, homecart version isn't.

Also, I don't think anyone here has stated that NGF freaked all their stuff. They sold lots of SNK made produce that was untampered, unmarked, as has been mentioned here. In those instances, it's no different to going into a store and buying stuff. Untampered carts are untampered carts whoever sells them, even a piece of shit (imo).

Why would people buy from them? Well this was a niche markt back then, few choices of where to buy your neo fix. And if you know you can get untampered 100% SNK made goods, why the fuck not. That people claim NGF would stamp carts / manuals even when asked not to....that's where a lot fo the anger comes from.

So the list covers all SNK untampered product. Anything where it is solely NGF creations is not listed. Which is right imo.

Irrespective of what the courts said, Playmore wouldn't have sued if they were happy with the shit NGF pumped out. That NGF won strikes me like thiose celebrity drink speeding cases and Mr Loophole. Irrespective of the judgement, most collectors shun NGF shit like the plague. If SNK made a product, and then NGF altered it, that is a 'freaked cart'. If the only examples of a game are freaked carts, like US Pulstar, they are not product made by SNK, therefore not listed. And I for one am glad. Well actually I collect JP carts anyway, so no freaked shit in my stash, an no chance of freaked shit either.

The lack of rights claims earlier make no sense. They say NGF have no rights, yet they list some titles whch NGF produced in english form as official titles.


So just to really try and hammer home my point, the above statement is incorrect. Woefully incorrect. NGF did not produce US Garou for example. SNK did, and US Garou can be bought with 100% manufactured SNK parts Every piece, insert, sticker, manual etc all made by SNK. NGF may have sold it, but they didn't make it.

Contrast with US Pulstar. SNK never made any US insert / manual for Pulstar homecart. NGF 'produced' English Pulstar insert on their printer, and used the English NGCD manual.

You see the difference?

[Yakumo]

Wow, what a post. Apart from repeating quite a bit i have to agree with Wheelaa 100% in his rant over real official items and fucked up releases. I'm also one of those who hates when companies stamp their mark all over a product. I even don't like the way a turd company such as the long gone Acclaim would get credit from western mags when they released so Taito gems.

[LeGIt]

Wheelaa, as someone who hasn't lived and breathed Neo Geo then get stories people refuse to substantiate then both sides say different things, it is easy to get confused ;) I see the difference and your post does help a little but I still have issues:

I can understand that if NGF destroyed original inserts and produced their own people may not like this or the genre corrected striping or lower quality printing, but given as a distributor typically has the right to put their marks on products, NGF were a distributor and they have been accepted in part to be an official distributor, the 'NGF freaked' titles should still feature in the official lists too.

If SNK granted NGF rights which it looks like they did, removing them purely over a grudge is foolish as not all SNK official products were wholly manufactured by SNK.

To put it into a diferent context - F355 Challenge for Dreamcast was developed by Sega and published by Sega in Japan, but in Europe it was published by Acclaim (even though Sega could publish in Europe too WTF) and Acclaim put their stamp on it too, yet no non-Neo crazy would state the title is unofficial even though no one will have any links as to the rights for Acclaim to have done so.

To put the same sitution another way, Sega made an official Dreamcast fishing rod which they manufactured and distributed in Japan and the USA. They did not market this product in Europe, the officially authorised Fishing controller for the UK etc was the Mad Catz Fission controller. It was inferior to the Sega controller and manufactured by a third party to boot, but still the official product for the region regardless.

People do not have to like the quality, but they should, given Playmore's statments, accept that on the balance of probabilities NGF had the right to do so - just about every other distributor for every other game in every other region on every other platform leaves their mark, some do a better job of it than others, but the only strange thing here would be for NGF to NOT mark them in their way, thus IMO writing off every single 'NGF freak' title is unreasonable.

I would also understand people may get angry if asked for a cart not to get stamped then it was stamped, but what where the terms of the non-stamping and seriously what difference does it make? The official distributor applied the official stamp - they are no more or less collectable because of it. Now if he cattle branded the carts by melting the plastic like some rental companies, that would be an extreme I'd be particularly unhappy with, but c'mon, a sticker? -_-

Pretty much every game I buy on the high street is stickered in one way or another. On a related note pretty much every store I go to will refuse to refund video games too unless the factory seal has not been tampered with and even then they do not have any legal obligation to do so.

I also understand how people may be angry to get a japanese manual in an english version of a game, but given as people have been complaining about no manual at all, it is a start, right? ;)

Lastly:

However, the sources that lay claims to having the game, have yet to show any solid proof whatsoever, hence why the title remains away from my timeline. I require a minimum level of information for a claim to be officially recognized , but if even that minimum cannot be met, then I will NOT substantiate it here.

This is the same problem I have with regards to the allegations of scamming.

[Alchy]

I'm surprised you're having so much trouble grasping why collectors don't want labels and inserts made by a couple of guys in their garage. It's a pretty simple concept.

[LeGIt]

I'm surprised you're having so much trouble grasping why collectors don't want labels and inserts made by a couple of guys in their garage. It's a pretty simple concept.

A good game with crappy packaging is still a good game.

A crappy game with good packaging is still a crappy game.

I said it many times in many ways:

People don't have to like crap quality products and I get that, but if the official product is a crap product and they're collecting official products, there is no good reason to boycott the 'NGF freaks' by branding them as unofficial.

Brand them as crap if need be, but officially licenced crap nontheless so they should still feature in the lists IMO.

[wheelaa]

Yakumo..sorry for the long post and duplication. Work is manic this week (year end reports) and I'm running on 2 hours kip a night, ie low batteries and my head is all over the shop.

At Legit, re my mega post - sorry if I wasn't clear. I wasn't trying to continue the NGF official or not debate (my views are clear etc). I was merely trying to expain why the NG list does not include NGF stuff. Tbh I'm past the whole official or not debate, but apologies if my post above is a little unclear (see above, no sleep, head fucked). If you feel that strongly take it up with them. I'm just saying why the list is how it is. Hell Geddon_IT (spelling?) even posted here and explained it far better than I could.

As Alchy says, a couple of wankers by and large printing shit in a garage is different to an organised company. And stickers in the manuals of $200 retail items, some of which were sold for considerably more (as Dion has shimself stated here when they became more collectible), is a problem to me. I wouldn't want to pay that kind of dough for anything other than a minty untouched product.

[LeGIt]

Wheelee this is what I'm saying, you don't have to like the quality. A distributor stickered product in good condition is still the minty untocuhed product as said stickering validates the officialness.

Now if it was a retailer putting a special offer sticker on, especially with that really crap adhesive they sometimes use, that would annoy me but irrespective of quality, the offical product with the official distributor's mark should be a non-issue in of itself and thy still blong on the list.

[wheelaa]

And as I say, take it up with them! I didn't make the list. I agree with it, sure. But I was merely explaining to you why it is that way (or why I am led to believe it is that way). I'm not commenting, other than from my own personal viewpoint, as to whether the list is correct or not.

I was also explaining why stuff on there you thought was NGF is actually SNK.

(Also putting stickers inside manuals? And on occasion with no discernible pattern, ie one copy of a game has it page 2, another page 10? Who the fuck does that?)

Anyway, end of on this point for me. Been fun though. As I said a few posts back these cunts are not worth my time (NGF I mean, not you heh), and you've already made a liar out of me, curse yoy :) :)

[Pannolino]

If SNK granted NGF rights which it looks like they did, removing them purely over a grudge is foolish as not all SNK official products were wholly manufactured by SNK.

To put it into a diferent context - F355 Challenge for Dreamcast was developed by Sega and published by Sega in Japan, but in Europe it was published by Acclaim (even though Sega could publish in Europe too WTF) and Acclaim put their stamp on it too, yet no non-Neo crazy would state the title is unofficial even though no one will have any links as to the rights for Acclaim to have done so.

Are you completely missing the point where this can be acceptable distributing an official released product, but incidentally become scum when you sell games which don't even exist as official counterpart on the Japanese market
simply because marketing side someone decided to not put the game on the shelf.

Being an official distributor it easy to you rip money from the people selling something like a "retrofit blablah conversion".
We're talking about very fetish and fanatic people (NG owner) so
it's like stealing candy from a child...

While i can imagine NGF had rights about distributing
i can highly doubt about issue game not released officially in home version.

If NGF won against SNKP it's just because SNK Japan was a very ridiculous company back in time
Great games but bad way of doing business or at least not clear plans.

I don't feel like the ng master list had to include NGF games just because even if you have the rights to do so, for the official released products they are just duplicated,
for the retrofits shit
they are shit
homemade stuff
they could have some hacking code for what i know
i don't see nothing official there.

so if this is the point, well let's include all the kof hacks or the homebrew games too.

[LeGIt]

Eh? Not sure how many times I can say this in different forms :P

The list does not include retrofits, but it does include english versions of AES.

Even if they ignore the retrofits due to some doubts, they should still count the english AES releases even if they hate the 'NGF freaked' quality as there are no doubts to rights or officialness there, despite the alleged crappy quality.

[Pannolino]

About the retrofit, is like i said somewhere else.
Building a Ferrari with spare parts just 'cause you have 'em like official distributor doesn't make that car a new model or an official Ferrari.
So i can't understand why you doubt they doubt about including retrofits in the list.
Same goes for Last Hope and Fast Striker
While they are shit for what they are (there's a lack of games there IMHO), they are not official but of course you can collect them and you don't have to argument why.

About the english releases i imagine that they count them as duplicate.
But you don't really know if freaked quality insert and stickers hide a full of wire and eproms core.
I mean .. are we sure ?
Personally i would look for not altered carts.. just to be sure no one messed with them.
But this is just me.
And i guess a similar idea work under that list. (not sure tough)

A side,
seeing english version of Pulstar would you feel confortable to include it in that list?

i wonder if the NeoGio wasn't an arcade console platform..
and Pulstar an Rpg.
Now we had a freaked english version, insert and sticker fully english and the game itself completely and heavy japanese text based. (unplayable for quite everyone)
What i mean is that this kind of tricks was possible just for the arcade feeling of the games.
Otherwise it wouldn't have been possible (or better.. non profitable) to release (or whatever you may call that) a game that the PRODUCTOR hadn't in mind to port for a different market.

[wheelaa]

although English KoF2K is listed I believe

Doh, my mistake. It's on the price guide, and due to it's unique nature I can almost see the appeal, bar the insert, but an anal completist has to have it etc. (not me of course)

But yeah, not on the master list. Rightly so. Gah I'm beat.

[retro]

I fully understand the desire to want the original games as they were. I understand that people wouldn't want items that were stamped or marked.

Having said that, it seems to me that NGF were official distributors back in the days of SNK. Now, we all know that distributors often repackage goods for their market, and slap their logo on it. Maybe they don't want to sell something in a Japanese box - they want it to be readable locally. Maybe the product has a notice stating it should only be sold in Japan - in which case, surely they have a legal obligation to remove that message?

If they were an official distributor, they can do what they want with their stock. And surely that's why SNK supplied artwork in various formats? In a way, it's a shame people knew they were just Japanese games with new covers.

Yes, I understand the desire to purchase unaltered Japanese carts - but obviously NGF wasn't the place to do that. Surely you'd go to Japan if that's what you wanted?

I can appreciate that people feel the quality of the NGF packaging was poor, but it's not like they're the only company to sell a product in shoddy packaging, is it?

Is it really such an issue if someone actually wants to collect games with shoddily produced packaging, all because the distributor wanted a localized version with their name on it?





*cough*

Who remembers the Barcode Battler?









[

Epoch... Tomy... Irwin.... they're all official. That Irwin packaging really sucks, though!

[Annoying_one]

a fool and his money are soon parted