The unmoderated NEO GEO thread

[retro]

This is what it comes down to for me as well, and especially in conjunction with the many reports of people unwittingly buying "official" home carts that weren't labelled as conversions. I mean honestly, how many people out there buy conversions knowingly and then complain they're conversions..? Does it not seem exceptionally unlikely that a lot of similar complaints would be made?

I think you'll find that the conversions were basically what was contended.... although it seems they were left on the list, so I don't get that, really.

WOW.
You NEVER learn, do you?
More and more people come to explain you the guy is a FRAUD, that he never had the rights back in 1997-98, hell that NGF didn't even EXIT at the time, and YET you think his stuff is official?

Seriously, how much did he pay you?

Adol, Legit was merely voicing his opinion on a GENERAL statement. Nothing to do with your fucking game, so drop that for now. Legit stated that, if NGF were official distributors and granted the right by Playmore to sell their repackaged games, then he sees no problem with someone wanting to collect their games. NOBODY said anything about 1997, so in this case, the chip on your shoulder is entirely uncalled for.

Legit's statement was basically "if someone officially releases games, then why not collect them?" He didn't say anything at all about your old game.

And I wouldn't bother replying with the usual bullshit if I were you. I know what it'll say and I'm not interested. Incidentally, are you just one person now, or are there still two Adols? You certainly sound like two different people at times.

As I think I've said before, I respect you as a collector and I'm in awe of your collection, but this shit is getting tiring. All you've managed to do is make Dion look like a calm, rational person and yourself look like a childish person with a chip on your shoulder from 14 years ago, bordering lunatic.

To the newcomer who asked for docs, I posted them in one of the other Neo threads - go look through those. Although, as Dion stated, if you're a lawyer surely you must know that you can simply look up the case number? I merely googled it and came up with it - but a lawyer in the US may well have access to documents not available online.

To everyone who is "warning" us about Dion - he doesn't sell games any more so WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER?!?!

[geddon_jt]

To the newcomer who asked for docs, I posted them in one of the other Neo threads - go look through those. Although, as Dion stated, if you're a lawyer surely you must know that you can simply look up the case number? I merely googled it and came up with it - but a lawyer in the US may well have access to documents not available online.

Respectfully, Dion (and your) assumption that being a lawyer magically grants you access to online court records is off the mark. They might be on Lexis or Westlaw, but I don't have the time nor the energy to search for them myself, not to mention that A) that costs money (federal trial court-level cases are outside of most subscription plans), and B) Dion and Chris have these documents, and it would be easiest for them to just post them themselves.

I have read the documents you posted. Again, the key items are the Exhibit "A" attached to the permanent injunction and the settlement agreement itself, which NGF will not divulge, and which was probably not filed with the Court. So, there really aren't any more conclusions that can be drawn at this point without the additional documents.

[retro]

The settlement, at least the important part, has been posted by Dion several times.

[geddon_jt]

The settlement, at least the important part, has been posted by Dion several times.

No, it hasn't.

Again, this is why it is helpful to have someone who can understand court orders around. There is as document known as the Settlement and Release Agreement referenced in the Stipulated Permanent Injunction. All Dion and Chris have said about it is that the terms were "very lucrative" for them, etc., but also that it is confidential and they can't publish it. While that may be true, we are left guessing as to the real terms of the settlement without it.

Except, of course, for the fact that the Court entered an agreed-upon permanent injunction against them both.

[Dion]

I have read the documents you posted. Again, the key items are the Exhibit "A" attached to the permanent injunction and the settlement agreement itself, which NGF will not divulge, and which was probably not filed with the Court. So, there really aren't any more conclusions that can be drawn at this point without the additional documents.

Sealed per request by Playmore
Playmore asked for the settlement agreement to be sealed and confidential, not us at NGF. I would love to show it to the world, but there is no way I would ever violate a US Federal Court order, under the Honorary Judge David O. Carter. Look up Judge Carter online. This guy doesn't mess around. He rarely grants a continuance on any case in his court room. (Imagine a judge not granting a continuance). He's very serious about his court.


"I'll Shut you down!!"
I will say this about the trial.... Judge Carter came very close to shutting down Playmore from doing further business in the United States and almost shut down their attorney's office for not following his orders and procedures properly. His exact words to playmore was "I'll prevent you from doing business here!!" And when the playmore attorney's didn't follow Judge Carter's orders, he said "If you don't follow my orders, I'll shut down your law firm!!"

Playmore offered us a settlement in a very timely manner after that.
All items were returned to NGF, the public press release was posted on Playmore's site, and the rest is confidential. $$$$$$ It was very lucrative for us = all we can legally disclose.

Transcripts can be ordered to to read all that transpired in Judge Carter's court room.
(The settlement agreements will still be confidential and unavailable)
.

[retro]

No, it hasn't.

Again, this is why it is helpful to have someone who can understand court orders around. There is as document known as the Settlement and Release Agreement referenced in the Stipulated Permanent Injunction. All Dion and Chris have said about it is that the terms were "very lucrative" for them, etc., but also that it is confidential and they can't publish it. While that may be true, we are left guessing as to the real terms of the settlement without it.

Except, of course, for the fact that the Court entered an agreed-upon permanent injunction against them both.

Yes, it has. The part that is important to us, Neo Geo collectors, was published by Playmore. Why do people keep ignoring this?

http://replay.web.archive.org/200502...n_press15.html

As a limited exception to the Permanent Injunction, the video games on the list below, and only those video games, were purchased from SNK Corporation Japan, and were sold by Neogeo Freaks/NGF USA with the permission of SNK Corporation Japan. These games were sold by Neogeo Freaks/NGF USA with the corrected English AES inserts with the permission of SNK Corporation Japan.

The List of Authentic Games owned by Neogeo Freaks/NGF USA is as follows

How the hell can anyone dispute that, AFTER THE CASE, NGF were authorized to sell their games with corrected inserts? IT SAID SO ON PLAYMORE'S WEBSITE!!!

We don't need to know the rest of the settlement. The part that matters to us was posted by Playmore. And Dion, here, time and time again.

[Buyatari]

To everyone who is "warning" us about Dion - he doesn't sell games any more so WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER?!?!

It doesn't even come down to the belief in his right to create these inserts or not. He has shown proof in the document which recognizes particular titles. Nothing has been shown to the contrary. If this were a company and not a single person that one could attack I'm sure there would be less hostility.

I've ordered old instructions from Nintendo.com and sometimes I get old stock originals and sometimes I get photocopies. The photocopies come with a cover letter and you have to say that the photocopies are legit instructions but they may be less desirable to collectors. Then again these photocopied instructions with the Nintendo letter attached may end up being harder to find if Nintendo stops the practice all together. Collectors choose what they want to collect. What is desirable to a particular collector and what can be consider a legit product aren't always the same thing.

At gamestop I've seen games with gamestop price stickers on the paper of "new" games. They also make black and white inserts when none exists for used games and you may or may not get a manual. People who just want to play the game may not care about any of these things. As a collector you just might care. If so don't buy those items.

There isn't a single collector who is complaining here in this thread who would feel better if Dion convinced them that he did own the rights to do all this. They are not happy not because he did not have the rights. This just happens to be the only way they can express the complaint and it is a weak one. They are not happy because the inserts and carts are not what they expected them to be. I can't blame someone for not wanting this or that. You are free to collect whatever you want.

If you send serious money on anything make sure you ask for pictures and ask very detailed questions and make sure it is something you want before you buy it. These were not one of kind games but retail games so you had the time to ask someone else who recieved one for thoughts. Once the first report of a game being sold with a different insert or a stamp was made public why would someone who cares about these things order one?

To me the games are legit but in some cases less desirable to some collectors for the reasons they have expressed. I've seen no cases of theft presented. If you bought these new retail games at retail prices to play then it shouldn't matter. If you bought them as collectables then just as with any other game system they may have gone up or they may have gone down.

If you bought games for any system at full retail price you know most do go down. How many $60 titles can you pick up today at Best Buy today and play for 5 years and get your $60 back on? That was a major problem for me and Neo Geo. I just couldn't see paying $200-$300 or more for a new game knowing it could fall in price but I am more a collector than a gamer. You really have to be a die hard collector to pay that type of money just to play a game.

The Commavid example isn't a good one. It isn't really a game and is one of those titles I've never had a desire to own.

There is a blue label Computer Magic version. A white label Commavid version and a loose board with no case release. There have been several releases by collectors and one group of collectors went so far as to see the owners of Commavid and bought all remaining stock AND got the rights to release an up to then unreleased game and all the old titles. Is the new release legit? I guess you could say it is but not as valuable to collectors.

I've never cared for this title. If someone had a copy for 1k I'd pass that information on to another I know who I think might be interested. For sure, neither one of us would spend 1k on a title like this without some in depth questions and pictures.

[wheelaa]

My take on it is the opposite. Anyone spending $500 on a game will have made damn sure they know what they're getting.

So true. Or at least they 'should'. But a seller 'must' represent goods accurately at the outset, and when asked questions. It seems this is where NGF failed consistently.

[geddon_jt]

Yes, it has. The part that is important to us, Neo Geo collectors, was published by Playmore. Why do people keep ignoring this?

http://replay.web.archive.org/200502...n_press15.html



How the hell can anyone dispute that, AFTER THE CASE, NGF were authorized to sell their games with corrected inserts? IT SAID SO ON PLAYMORE'S WEBSITE!!!

We don't need to know the rest of the settlement. The part that matters to us was posted by Playmore. And Dion, here, time and time again.

I'm not ignoring anything. I've seen the press release. I get it. I wasnt even making the argument that they didn't have the rights... Come on, dude. Please read my posts more carefully.

I, and others, want to know the rest of the settlement terms, so speak for yourself as to what is important and what isn't. And stop arguing to me that they posted the settlement. Dion posted right above yours (again) repeating that it hasn't been disclosed, and it appears probably won't. That Playmore press release is a totally different thing than the Settlement and Release Agreement, although its obvious they are related to the same suit.

[LeGIt]

But people wasting £700 on games digital content, that have pretty much no resale value are the real crazy people if you ask me :P

Aha, touché!

geddon_jt you will have to forgive retro for his slip (or hold a 14 year grudge), I only let him out of the dungeon on occasion. I'll see to it he goes without food for a few days and as soon as I find my whip... ;)

Anyhow:

a) You want to see the settlement
b) Dion allegedly can't disclose the settlement
c) Your only recourse is to pay to see it and if you did, you say you have no time to look anyway

That should be the end of the story but

d) If court transcripts of the hearing are available, you won't get the settlement terms but you will get a better understanding of what happened at least.

The only thing that seems strange is Neo collectors keep demanding things they're never going to get but ask or comment regardless. I do understand your position geddon_jt and it is nice to speak to someone who is not as crazy as the other Neo chaps for a change, but at the end of the day, what would you hope to get from it? Money? A manual? Closure?

If the settlement was posted very little will change - people will stll bitch about Dion, demand to see yet more things from him instead of offering reasonable doubt on their particular grievances etc, people will still bitch about corrected inserts and warranty stickers even if he had the right to apply them etc.

I can't see a way out of this so everyone wins as some peoples demands are completely unreasonable, it just looks like everyone loses (even Dion) and as such people should just accept it, move on and be thankful they received their games to play but sadly the crazies amongst you will perpetuate their nonsense indefinitely.

[Juste]

My take on it is the opposite. Anyone spending $500 on a game will have made damn sure they know what they're getting.

I think lots of people tried to do just that.

But just like now, Dion was evasive or avoided questions.

Maybe people just went ahead with purchases anyway or they didn't.

I think in this thread, Dion wont seem to answer the most simple/direct questions. Why?

I think like LeGIt said in a reply to to my last post regarding the pictures, he said "sort of". But this is one of the problems, he only sort of answers them. But if you just ask a direct or simple question that could maybe be answered with just yes or no, it seems to be ignored. Why? Maybe because there is no room to sort of answer it or be evasive, when I think all that could be required is maybe a yes or no.

[Adol]

Adol: you're an idiot. That's all that needs to be said on the matter, case closed.

Haha. You're an idiot AND a nazi fanatic. Case closed. :thumbsup:

[Adol]

Repackage
All we did was use the japanese pulstar and repackage with english, just as snk-usa originally did with all their releases. And snk-japan sent us many extra manuals for use with repackaging, like the english Pulstar.

It's a lie.
SNK-Japan would never send you English Neo Geo CD manuals.
You'd have to print those English Pulstar Home cart manuals by yourself IF you had the art files, but you never had them.

Instead you sacrificed genuine SNK products for your bastardizations.

[Adol]

Neo collectors must be such rich and crazy people they almost deserve to be scammed.

Wow. What a nice way of thinking. The world would be a better place without you.

The catch is there is no proof that these people were ever scammed,

You really are stubborn and horse blinked.
Even when geddon,tonk,wheelaa,myself and many other explain it, you won't listen. I hope you'll learn it the HARD way.

[Adol]

To everyone who is "warning" us about Dion - he doesn't sell games any more so WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER?!?!

He just proposed for sale Neo Geo manuals a few posts earlier, SO IT THE FUCK MATTERS.

[Consumed]

Selling manuals after the fact is indeed a shitty way of doing business however you look at it. Dion says he was sent hundreds of spare copies of the manuals but all the manuals in the pictures are for the Japanese release versions so it begs the question why would SNK furnish him with spare Japanese booklets? Quite simply they wouldn't, all the piles of booklets are there because the host cart and box have been reappropriated for conversion.

[LeGIt]

You really are stubborn and horse blinked.
Even when geddon,tonk,wheelaa,myself and many other explain it, you won't listen. I hope you'll learn it the HARD way.

Adol - you're still an idiot. Your explantion is just a story, you also need evidence which must be relevant to your case.

[caren103]

It would be great if somebody could find and post the hearings trancription of the case.

Also, although the settlement with Playmore seems to be confidential, this does not affect to the SNK OF JAPAN original document granting rights to Dion, I guess (as I've read in the case documents: "(e) On January 31, 2003, NeoGeo Freak, who was then discovered to be a fictious business name of Dion Dakis, filed an Answer to the Complaint" ( http://valou.ludo.free.fr/NEO/Copie%...playmore_1.pdf ); so might the original document from SNK OF JAPAN granting rights be scanned and posted?

This way everybody could check dates starting those rights, date of expiration of them, etc. .

[Adol]

case closed.

Blabla

so you're not only an idiot, a nazi fanatic, but you're also a LIAR :lol:

[Cyantist]

The sad thing is if Dion did post the document he can't the Neo Geo collectors would still find a bone to pick.