The unmoderated NEO GEO thread

[Consumed]

What the Pulstar issue says is that Dion was aware that the game would never get a western release so simply converted a shitload of MVS carts and gutted an equal amount of Neo CD copies of the game just for the manual to try and make it look as authentic as possible. We know from previous posts that buyers had complained about the lack of a manual for other releases so I imagine this isn't the only game where this has happened.

Another thing that you have to remember is that nearly all Neo Geo games be they cart based or CD are multi language. You gut any region sac cart and replace the ROMs with those in this case from a JPN Pulstar MVS cart and then play said converted cart on a USA or Euro home system and lo and behold you've got an English game. How official it is is a very grey area as the only genuine English part of the whole package is the booklet that's been taken out of a Neo Geo CD game. It would be interesting to see the manual from the ''official'' USA release of KOF 2000 as that game was never released for the CD system. As Dion himself has admitted, the only ones in existence are conversions so was a manual even produced?

[Adol]

Adol, your query with regards to Neo Geo CD manual is yet another epic fail. Why?
The only thing he is saying is the English version produced by NGF is authorised by SNK Japan, seriously it is that simple so all this Neo Geo CD manual nonsense

You're pathetic.
I just proved another DD's blatant lie, saying he "had SNK art files" and such..if he had them,he could reproduce english HOME CARTS manuals as he wanted.
But guess what, he didn't. Because he never HAD the files. Because he NEVER was anything official back at the time.
He just made MVS converts with tons of wires,and sacrificed the only Pulstar English manuals he could find, the Neo Geo CD ones.
Proof. Period. Now STFU.

Consumer, you're absolutely right. We just pointed out another lie of DD, one in a hundred.

[LeGIt]

Yes Adol, I'm pathetic because you can't answer simple questions or present any facts which are relevant to your case /rollseyes

I'm treating you no different than a Judge (Well... except for calling you Adolf and swearing, but I'm a northern commoner so deal with it). I'm losing hope of ever deprogramming you though.

I tried to point you in the right direction, you have no intention of listening or being reasonable. What more can I do, except wait for you to provide the resonable and rational answers? Until that day on the balance of probabilities you leave me no choice but to side with Dion here and a 14 year grudge for something so trivial is still the stupidest issue of the year - I'm amazed you haven't won a Darwin award yet.

The only thing I can say is no matter how intelligent you think you are Adol, you are either too angry, stupid, naive or even some combination and for these reasons your judgement is clouded. If you ever do go to court with your case as it stands now, you will fail and with your lack of evidence, on the balance of probabilites the Judge will have no choice but to side with Dion too.

[Pannolino]

lolz at the neogecd manual O_o

a well done dr. frankenstein work.

[Consumed]

Another thing that keeps going round in my head is about the ownership of 'arts' etc for cover reproductions etc. Yes we know Dion has them now as he's uploaded images of them on this site in another thread but that doesn't automatically mean that he had them back in the day. Upon his own admission he was able to help himself to untold amounts of artwork and other goodies during the final days of SNK's collapse so he could have picked them up then, months or even years after certain titles were released to the public. Ownership proves only that he has them now, it does not prove how long he's actually had them.

Going back - sadly - to the issue of manuals though, surely it would have been in SNK's best interests to demand that all NGF's releases came with one as it would reflect badly on the parent company, to all intents and purposes they would be seen to be shortchanging their international buyers. We know how proud Japanese companies are and were so the practice of allowing their distributors to put out incomplete product just doesn't make sense, it would have been seen as an embarrassment.

[Adol]

Yes Adol, I'm pathetic because you can't answer simple questions or present any facts which are relevant to your case /rollseyes.

No you're pathetic because you have too big of horse blinks to see the truth, and i won't waste anymore of my time explaining it.

We're not in court, and i'm not judged here: Dion is.
And i'm not an avocat, but a law professionnal, a good one and certainly better than you, no matter what you think ^_^
You got lectured by your lack of french law system knowledge, and you don't know the difference between a lawyer and an "avocat", too bad for you.

If you're stupid enough to think i have a "grudge" here, then be.
I won't change you.

If you ever do go to court with your case as it stands now,

Fortunately, I won't. I don't give a damn about your stupid court theory. We're not in court, WAKE UP.

[geddon_jt]

"Verified in US Federal court, sworn testimony under oath, with a signed affidavit by snk-japan, playmore, snkneogeousa, NeoGeoFreak, and US Federal Court settlement, under the Honorary Judge David O. Carter. All NeoGeoFreak items are 100% official and fully authorized. "

Dion,
I requested that Chris provide the documents you speak of and he directed me here. I have reviewed the documents posted. The only one that matters is the "Stipulated Permanent Injunction Against Defendant's Dion Dakis d.b.a. Neogeo Freak and Chris Ray," as that is the one that resolves the case.

Unfortunately, there does not appear to be an Exhibit "A" attached to the copy I've reviewed, nor have you guys posted the Settlement and Release Agreement referenced in the document. I understand that you say it's confidential and you can't post it. That makes it impossible to know exactly what the terms are of the agreement between NGF and Playmore, so there is no way to vet your claims that it was "lucrative" for you guys.

Here is what this Order DOES mean:
You and Chris were, and presumably still are, permanently enjoined (meaning, prohibited) from selling unauthorized games, printed products etc as well as those games set forth in Exhibit "A" (wherever that is).

Here is what this Order DOESN'T mean:
That Judge David O. Carter, who for some reason you felt necessary to post photos of, decided any issue on the case, or otherwise issued any declaratory judgment "declaring" anyone's rights. That is NOT what happened here. All this is is a Judge approving a negotiated Stipulation of the parties. Again, we haven't seen the Stipulation. This stuff happens all the time in Court. When the parties reach an agreement, the Judge signs off on it by entering an Order approving the agreement, and including any other terms necessary. In this case, the Judge approved the agreement, and entered a permanent injunction against you guys.

It does not mean the Honorable DAVID O. CARTER declared, pronounced, or ratified your position that anything was legitimate or non-legitimate. That did not happen. If you all come up with additional documents, like the "Exhibit A" or the settlement agreement, I'd be happy to look at those too. If you don't, thats all we can conclude from the documents you've posted.

[LeGIt]

No you're pathetic because you have too big of horse blinks to see the truth, and i won't waste anymore of my time explaining it.

No facts, no proof, no truth, just words, sorry. I'm still annoyed you said the cart was full of EEPROMS and wires and was a mess and I believed you, but when the pics came out, despite the fact the cart was clearly modified (albeit tidily) your were full of shit. If I applied your logic of every slip up Dion makes means he lies all the time, then by your own logic, you bullshitted so you bullshit all the time too, so why should I believe you?

We're not in court, and i'm not judged here: Dion is.
And i'm not an avocat, but a law professionnal, a good one and certainly better than you, no matter what you think ^_^
You got lectured by your lack of french law system knowledge

Yes there was a lecture on the French legal system, but as it is clear for all to see, it was me lecturing you. Despite what you think the 2011 laws you cited wern't worth shit in 1997. Just admit it already, you made a big boast about your professional accuracy then linked the wrong laws from the wrong years and you foolishly believed L121-20 in 2011 would be L121-20 in 1997. Just admit that I was right and you were wrong, for the point you were making the relevant year was 1997 and the relevant law was L121-16 - we all saw how the 1997 L121-20 had no bearing on your case.

and you don't know the difference between a lawyer and an "avocat", too bad for you.

Given that you have gone from being a lawyer, notary, estate agent and now legal professional and now you bring this avocat crap up as well, too bad for you if you don't even know what job you're supposed to be doing, no wonder you're fucked up.

Fortunately, I won't. I don't give a damn about your stupid court theory. We're not in court, WAKE UP.

Wake up, if you want people to take you seriously you should treat it as such and substantiate your claims. Your refusal each time only weakens your case. Dions refusal is irrelevant as you brought no case for him to answer. It is impossible you are so stupid that you cannot see this?

[Dion]

I hope i'll have more time in the next days to comment all the crap you said in 1 post,but just answer ONE question:
WHY, if this "english" Pulstar cart was issued by SNK-Japan, WHY does it have a Neo Geo CD manual?

Because that's how we packaged it.
We had english iinserts printed, but since snk already printed english manuals when they released the cd, and since the game play and all buttons used are the same, we decided to save money and use that manual.









We repacked the japense version cartridge of Pulstar (for sale and use in japan only), with all new english insert, sticker, and manual. Everything matched and the finish product is beautiful. Still 100% official.



The NGF version matches the japanese artwork beautifully.
.

[Dion]

Unfortunately, there does not appear to be an Exhibit "A" attached to the copy I've reviewed, nor have you guys posted the Settlement and Release Agreement referenced in the document. I understand that you say it's confidential and you can't post it. That makes it impossible to know exactly what the terms are of the agreement between NGF and Playmore, so there is no way to vet your claims that it was "lucrative" for you guys.

Someone here had posted links to the final permanent injunction that did state all the games we had the rights to distribute and repackage. you say you're a lawyer, so you should have access to the same signed documents.

As for the particulars and terms of the agreement, those are sealed. But playmore did isssue the press release. That alone should tell you that NGF is official and that our case was so strong.

Click to view the NGF/SNKPLAYMORE PRESS RELEASE
"As a limited exception to the Permanent Injunction, the video games on the list below, and only those video games, were purchased from SNK Corporation Japan, and were sold by Neogeo Freaks/NGF USA with the permission of SNK Corporation Japan. These games were sold by Neogeo Freaks/NGF USA with the corrected English AES inserts with the permission of SNK Corporation Japan."

Here is what this Order DOES mean:
You and Chris were, and presumably still are, permanently enjoined (meaning, prohibited) from selling unauthorized games, printed products etc as well as those games set forth in Exhibit "A" (wherever that is).

No one is allowed to sell infringing items. Not you, or anyone else. It's against the law. But NeoGeoFreak does have the rights for repackaging every game listed in that press release, so it's a moot point for us.

Here is what this Order DOESN'T mean:
That Judge David O. Carter, who for some reason you felt necessary to post photos of, decided any issue on the case, or otherwise issued any declaratory judgment "declaring" anyone's rights.

I posted information on the Honorary Judge David O. Carter, because many people asked for information on the court case and who the judge was. So now you know that much more information.
.

[Adol]

No facts, no proof, no truth, just words, sorry. I'm still annoyed you said the cart was full of EEPROMS and wires and was a mess and I believed you, but when the pics came out, despite the fact the cart was clearly modified (albeit tidily) your were full of shit. If I applied your logic of every slip up Dion makes means he lies all the time, then by your own logic, you bullshitted so you bullshit all the time too, so why should I believe you?

And the cart was indeed full of wires.
Only 2 pics came out, MY pics, of ONE cart, when i received plutiple ones from the scammer. and it DID have wires,yes.
Proof,then. STFU, you're full of shit :)

Yes there was a lecture on the French legal system, but as it is clear for all to see, it was me lecturing you.

And it was an ep!c fa!l

Despite what you think the 2011 laws you cited wern't worth shit in 1997.

Yes,they were. I had to react within 7 days,and that's what i did.
I could speak with you too about the fact he sold a cart to a MINOR, and that special protection laws apply, but i don't want to go too far into that, because you're clearly overwhelmed haha x)

Just admit it already, you made a big boast about your professional accuracy

I'm proud of my professionnal accuracy and degree, yes. I have not to be ashamed.
It's something quite more difficult to achive than a simple lawyer degree, who goes in court like hundreds of thousands of other lawyers.
Notaire don't go in court. Such job doesn't even look for customers, because it doesn't need to, customers come to it, literally.
I let lawyers battle and argue in court.

Given that you have gone from being a lawyer, notary, estate agent and now legal professional and now you bring this avocat crap up as well, too bad for you if you don't even know what job you're supposed to be doing, no wonder you're fucked up.

I'm a notaire. there is no equivalent in your system, so don"'t try to call me a notary, or a lawyer, it is just NOT the same.
By the way, Legit, what is your job? Tell me?

Wake up, if you want people to take you seriously you should treat it as such and substantiate your claims.

People take me seriously.
You don't, but i don't give a damn, since you're absolutely not representative of the people.
You're just a juvenile & childish person, who name people after his nazi heroes, and try to understand some stuff which is beyond your capacities.

It is impossible you cannot see how foolish you are?

[Adol]

Because that's how we packaged it.
We had english iinserts printed, but since snk already printed english manuals when they released the cd, and since the game play and all buttons used are the same, we decided to save money and use that manual.

Hahahaha. :clap:
This is getting more and more ridiculous.
You used NG CD manuals, no, you SACRIFICED GENUINE SNK products to sell your fake carts. Just admit it already.
You NEVER had any manual files, so nothing to print them. Because you're a FRAUD and never got any rights from SNK to sell such games as English Pulstar back in 1997.
You just sacrificed 3 genuine snk neo geo games for your scam:
1 Neo Geo home cart (preferably FF3 or SS3, but since you're a cheap guy you'd use WH2 and solder 34 wires)
1 Pulstar MVS cart (if we're lucky, otherwise you'd use Eproms)
1 Pulstar US Neo Geo CD to steal manual from

That's potentially thousands of sacrificed genuine and authentic Neo Geo products.
Congrats, you ruined Neo Geo history.

[LeGIt]

Adol: you're an idiot. That's all that needs to be said on the matter, case closed.

[Consumed]

All the manuals shown in the above photos are from the Japanese versions of the games. They do nothing but add extra credence to the probability that all you did to create your ''official'' USA releases was to gut and convert JPN titles that were released in large numbers as evinced by the huge number of World Heroes 2, Samurai Spirits III and Fatal Fury Special manuals as these are the carts of choice for saccing due to their ease of availability. It would also explain how easily you were able to come by the correct boxes for all releases.

It's interesting that a title like ZuPaPa! is in one of the old style, non snaplock cases. Your reasoning for this Dion was that because the game was made in 1994 it should be in a softbox. Now the sceptics amongst us would probably say that because the sac cart needed for the conversion wouldn't need to be a newer HI ROM board, you'd be able to get away with saccing an old low ROM soft boxed title and just thought 'fuck it, a box is a box.' But no, I'm sure your reasoning was honourable and genuine.

Another thing that keeps coming up is the ludicrous prices people were paying. Now when in another thread I asked you how you justified charging the prices you did you said you only charged an extra $20 per title wholesale and $40 retail above what they cost you, yet there's talk here of Twinkle Star Sprites selling in excess of $1000 and copies of Ninja Masters going for $600+ so obviously someone, somewhere is lying. As for offering Ninja Masters in an 'economy' version without a manual for just, yes JUST!!!!!!! $400 is nothing but out and out blatant bootlegging/pirating. Just because all the parts used were manufactured by SNK individually, what resulted as a whole after your intervention doesn't make the end result a legitimate item. Bang on as many times as you want about what rights you have or may have had to release titles with corrected inserts etc but I've not seen any documentation that clearly states that you can disassemble both home and arcade carts and release the resulting repackaged bastardization as an official home cart. No matter what paperwork you say you have I can't believe any company would be happy with the way their product was being treated and/or handled. There's obviously been deceptions carried out with much obfuscation on your part so I can only imagine you were as evasive when having dealings with SNK as you were with your customers thus somehow fooling them into believing that they were dealing with a legitimate wholesaler.

Another thing that would make for interesting reading is the original contract with SNK that was written up and signed that gave you the supposed rights to do what you did do. I'm guessing that something, somewhere got lost in translation and you saw a loophole that allowed you to do what you did without repudiation but because they too had signed their hands were tied. Had Playmore not been almost certain that you were acting illegally they'd never have taken you to court, but because of a few words placed out of context you held all the aces. That doesn't necessarily mean that you were in the right, just that through some quirk of fate you just happened to drop lucky.

[Dion]

Hahahaha. :clap:
You just sacrificed 3 genuine snk neo geo games for your scam:
1 Neo Geo home cart (preferably FF3 or SS3, but since you're a cheap guy you'd use WH2 and solder 34 wires)
1 Pulstar MVS cart (if we're lucky, otherwise you'd use Eproms)
1 Pulstar US Neo Geo CD to steal manual from

That's potentially thousands of sacrificed genuine and authentic Neo Geo products.

Repackage
All we did was use the japanese pulstar and repackage with english, just as snk-usa originally did with all their releases. And snk-japan sent us many extra manuals for use with repackaging, like the english Pulstar.

Slapped on stickers by the first snk-usa crew, SNK Home Entertainment
All neo collectors can grab an early title like Nam 1975. Look carefully at the cartridge sticker, you'll be able to see that snk-usa slapped their english sticker over the japanese sticker. They were too lazy to remove the japanese sticker.

All the manuals shown in the above photos are from the Japanese versions of the games. They do nothing but add extra credence to the probability that all you did to create your ''official'' USA releases was to gut and convert JPN titles that were released in large numbers as evinced by the huge number of World Heroes 2, Samurai Spirits III and Fatal Fury Special manuals as these are the carts of choice for saccing due to their ease of availability. It would also explain how easily you were able to come by the correct boxes for all releases.

Also in the photos are manuals for AeroFighters 2, Samurai Shodown 4, Eightman, Ninja Commando, Top Players Golf, Aggressors of Dark Combat, Andro Dunos, KoF96, 97, 98, 99, Robo Army, Viewpoint, all in english format. And that was just one box we received filled with extra manuals in case our customers damaged their originals and wanted replacements. We had extra manuals for Ninja Master's, World Heroes Perfect, Gowcaizer, and many more. We also received hundreds of neogeo cd manuals as well.

We still have extra manuals for sale if anyone needs any.

Another thing that keeps coming up is the ludicrous prices people were paying. Now when in another thread I asked you how you justified charging the prices you did you said you only charged an extra $20 per title wholesale and $40 retail above what they cost you, yet there's talk here of Twinkle Star Sprites selling in excess of $1000 and copies of Ninja Masters going for $600+

Details
You're ignoring some important details on our sales and future pricing list.
When we were selling the games on release, we charged the usual nominal fees for profit, $20/$40. It wasn't until years later that certain games became higher in value in the collectors market, thus the increase in price.

You are also ignoring the fact that there are many games on our price list that we were selling for $50-$100. Those games were original sold for close to $200. As those games went down in value, so did our prices. Some titles we sold for a loss to keep inventory moving and to have more capital on hand for future purchases.

Pricing works both ways
A small handfull of games became more expensive, while the majority of the games decreased in price.
.

[Alchy]

No matter what paperwork you say you have I can't believe any company would be happy with the way their product was being treated and/or handled.

This is what it comes down to for me as well, and especially in conjunction with the many reports of people unwittingly buying "official" home carts that weren't labelled as conversions. I mean honestly, how many people out there buy conversions knowingly and then complain they're conversions..? Does it not seem exceptionally unlikely that a lot of similar complaints would be made?

[LeGIt]

Alchy you're forgetting the people who buy those things are on the crazy. If they were crazy enough to spend $500 on retail games when they could easily get 10 great games on one system for the price of one shit Neo game, they're crazy enough to buy a game then complain they got exactly what they ordered.

I was joking earlier how Neo collectors must be such rich and crazy people they almost deserve to be scammed. The catch is there is no proof that these people were ever scammed, just a lot of noise and not a lot of substance which is a shame. I know that if I was scammed, I wouldn't just be pointing fingers and naming names, I'd back my claims up so the shit sticks.

[Alchy]

My take on it is the opposite. Anyone spending $500 on a game will have made damn sure they know what they're getting.

[LeGIt]

That would make sense Alchy, for any system other than the Neo - at leasts going from the examples of collectors presented before us thus far.

[DarthCloud]

Alchy you're forgetting the people who buy those things are on the crazy. If they were crazy enough to spend $500 on retail games when they could easily get 10 great games on one system for the price of one shit Neo game, they're crazy enough to buy a game then complain they got exactly what they ordered.

I guess it's not that crazy given they have a good resale value anyway, no big risk of loosing money if you make sure about what you get.

But people wasting £700 on games digital content, that have pretty much no resale value are the real crazy people if you ask me :P

;) lol