Originally Posted by Alchy
Not that it matters, but the old list is still posted on www.neogeofrerak.com from almost a decade ago. Fine print is located at the bottom.
http://www.neogeofreak.com/cartridge_prices.htm
Of course, he will claim his purchase was from before 2002. But we always updated our prices regularly starting with email lists and then web lists, using the same style of cartridge designations.
.
"You have enemies?
Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - - Winston Churchill
Is this the Shock Troopers game in question?
Last edited by benhat; 04-25-2011 at 04:16 PM.
Well, yeah. I meant, does Adol have the advert in question. Sounds like he might in his email archives.
Well,it is a scan i made back at the time about one of the carts he sold me, yes, but i don't think it is Shock Troopers, it was more like a Super Dodge Ball.Is this the Shock Troopers game in question?
However, it already shows many wires.
Thanks
I had to do a good deal of digging around old threads, but I ended up here:
http://gamesource.groups.yahoo.com/g...neogeowarroom/
You have to have a Yahoo account to view the "Photos" section, and that's where I found the pics. It does say "Shock Troopers LogicBoards" in the description, posted Dec 12, 2004
I really don't give a fuck what SNK did or didn't do. It could well be that you'd find a repaired cartridge with wires in it, actually. However, if SNK license the rights to produce something, their own practices become irrelevant.
Cadbury's chocolate is, or was, made by Hershey's in the US, under license. It doesn't taste the same as the "proper" UK chocolate. Does that make it not an official product? No, of course not - Cadbury gave the license to Hershey's, and they don't care that they don't make it EXACTLY the same as they do here in the UK.
I think you're misunderstanding my point.
Regardless of what you think about the product, you agree that NGF got the license to officially sell Neo Geo games on that list, do you not? OK, so you bought your product perhaps before that agreement.
However, once that license came in place, you then owned a product that was made by a licensee. Ignore the fact it was made before the agreement - OK, that's a bit dishonest. Still, if they still sold that product, what they sold in 2002 would be identical to what you already owned - correct?
Therefore, if you sold your copy as "made by licensee", you aren't telling any untruths. It was made by NGF, NGF are a licensee. The buyer doesn't need to know that it was made 5 years previous - it's the same product, and it works! If you wanted to be totally honest, "conversion cart from licensee" would also be telling the truth.
With no disrespect to you, I doubt that anyone who purchased the cart, especially if you say it's a conversion, would take it apart and criticize the workmanship. If it works, it works. And I'm not saying you shouldn't be saying that, obviously you're unhappy - I'm saying if you sell it on honestly, noone's going to complain to you.
Ahh, bad example, I'm afraid!
I've had to dismantle my friend's Ferrari to repair a faulty headlamp. There are lots of poor quality parts used in a Ferrari! The wiring on the headlamp was poor and had come off (how the hell does that happen?!). Also, the relay box is REALLY poor - it rattles around and the cover won't stay on! There are MANY problems with these fuse/relay boxes, actually! And what do you think the local Ferrari garage said? "Yeah, they're shit!"
And here it is as of December 2000:
http://replay.web.archive.org/200101.../ngfstock1.htm
Note that the price on Dion's 2002 link was $599, but the price in 2000 was $649. If Adol bought it in 1997 for $600, did you put the price up and then back down again, Dion? Or did he get a discount? The odd thing is, any of the archived pages from pre-december 2000 don't even have a sales list! So uh, where did Adol see it advertised?
Adol, I notice that NGF's site in December 2000 stated:
Well, SNK existed until October 2001 and Playmore was founded a couple of months before. So, if NGF claimed to be official distributors back then, perhaps they did have permission from SNK and it was only Playmore who kicked up a fuss after the original company folded? I'm not saying that's the case, merely a possibility.
Well, I hope it does help clarify things a bit. Hat's off to benhat for the pics, although I came across them just after him before reading his post heh.
Thanks for clarifying that Adol did indeed get discounts - that's fair enough. How did he find you in America from France in 1997 if you weren't online until 1999? That's Neo Geo dedication for you! ;-)
And if you read the group, you'll find this:
Posted Fri Jun 11, 1999 6:44 pm - 11 times! Nothing like spamming a message board to get your point across, eh Adol? ;-)
So, Adol, it seems that IS your "EPROM" cartridge - only I don't see any EPROMS (which have windows) in the pics! As for those links, I have indeed seen manufacturers save money by using boards designed for different ROMs and linking like that, so I don't see anything wrong with it, personally. I wouldn't know if SNK did or not - I don't go around opening my carts up when they function 100%. Now, I'm not saying that these aren't conversion carts - Dion fully admits they were.
Now for the last part of the mystery - you say he falsely advertised it back in 1997. We've established his website didn't exist in 1997 - so where did he advertise it? Do you have a copy of the advert we could see?
For Adol and Dion, could you please confirm or deny the following?
The various archives that people made of the NGF exploits state these facts:
- Dion wrote his name on the back of the insert in black permanent marker.
- Adol tore the sticker off the cart in a fit of rage.
- Adol then sent the cartridge back to Dion, requesting a refund.
- Dion stated that Adol should pay for the damage to the sticker.
- Dion claimed that the sticker cost him $400.
- Dion offered Adol a refund, but it was only for $100 or so.
- Adol received said refund.
Could you guys state which of the above are true?
Also, to Adol, what does French law state about receiving a refund for goods? Does it not state that they need to be returned as received?
Break time.Got an hour or so.
Thanks for appreciating my work, you're welcome.
You can clealry see all the unneccessary wires, that wouldn't have been necessary if job was made professionnally. This looks like an amateur work done in a backyard garage ^^
Then Shock Troopers it is, thank you.
(I bought Super Dodge Ball and other stuff from him at about the same time, wasn't really sure of it)
Haha. Since you don't know a damn thing about all this, i'll explain it to you, even if that's not easy because french/US laws & jobs in such department really differ.
I'm a "notaire",. It would translate as notary in your country, but we're not doing the same job than your notary at all (who, basically, just authentifies any document you give him)
I don't go in court (don't need to), but i'm receiving ALL real estate sales, ALL sales/trades of company sharestocks, ALL successory acts,etc...we have a "monopoly" of those things here, and no one can buy/sell a house, or "split" the of a deceased person without passing by us.
We have, as well, the very boring job to "correct" all the very bad work done by real estate agents (when they sell a house/apartment), who don't know a thing about law, and we have then to draft "real estate sales acts" the way it needs to be done.
But, since we're "officiers ministeriels", unlike lawyers (avocats) we're responsible for our drafts, and such drafts have the title of "acte authentique", which give them a value superior to any private contract in this country (BECAUSE it is received by us). If there is a court case about property, our acts are the premium proof, above anything else...it's like deeds in UK/US system. (so let's say we establish deeds)
That's why we need to know laws of such subjects way better than any barrister (in UK), because we can be sued for our drafts, unlike them.
Our "mistake rate" (meaning how many of our acts are sued) is by far the lowest in law jobs , about 1/10000. That shows how serious and professionnal notaires are. (Lawyers have a mitake rate 10-20 times higher).
That's why i don't go often in courts, but if i have to go there to sue you, why not. You'll have to learn french law system really fast :)
I got thousands of NG Carts in my hands, not ONE got wires. This is a "NGF special" :)
Yes, but if Hershey was selling stuff promoted as "Cadbury's products" BEFORE getting license from Cadbury, would it be right? Of course not.
No, i DO NOT. On the day of my acquisition, they DID NOT HAVE them. They got them only later, and such rights are NOT retroactive.
YES.
NO, they were NOT licensees back at the time of the sale.
It is. I can't ignore such fact :)
Maybe, maybe not. You can assume they didn't change their way of business, and continue to sold amateur work still in 2002, but that's up to them.
I never sold this shitty work. I'm not dishonest enough to try to scam another guy with such amateur stuff! This would be completely unethical!
DOZENS of buyers criticized the workmanship, just check NG DHP List or www.neo-geo.com forums, it is FULL of COUNTLESS testimonies.
Well,if you're happy with such shitty response from a professionnal business, that's your problem. It is still unacceptable.
Through NG DHP List and private emails.
As you say, only a possibility. It's up to Dion to prove he had rights in 1997 (guess what, he won't).
I did, and i still do. And since i was the customer, and the one who paid for this, my opinion matters.
Again: NG DHP List and private emails.
For Adol and Dion, could you please confirm or deny the following?
The various archives that people made of the NGF exploits state these facts:
- Dion wrote his name on the back of the insert in black permanent marker. TRUE
- Adol tore the sticker off the cart in a fit of rage. DON'T REMEMBER IT, BUT CAN BE TRUE.
- Adol then sent the cartridge back to Dion, requesting a refund. WILL CHECK, BUT PROBABLY TRUE
- Dion stated that Adol should pay for the damage to the sticker. DON'T REMEMBER, BUT PROBABLY TRUE, HE'S GREEDY
- Dion claimed that the sticker cost him $400. HAHA, SURELY TRUE, ONLY DION COULD ASK SO MUCH MONEY FOR A $10 STICKER. THAT'S ILLEGAL ANYWAY
- Dion offered Adol a refund, but it was only for $100 or so. POSSIBLE, AND COMPLETELY ILLEGAL, REFUND SHOULD HAVE BEEN $600
- Adol received said refund. POSSIBLE,IF SO, STILL WAITING THE REMAINING $500 + legal interest for 14 years.
Article L121-20 du Code de la Consommation
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affich...Texte=20110426
Basically, it says i have 7 days from the day i receive the stuff to ask for total refund (complete cancellation of the sale) without any penalty, and NO need to give ANY reason for it.
And:
"Lorsque les informations prévues à l'article L. 121-19 n'ont pas été fournies, le délai d'exercice du droit de rétractation est porté à trois mois."
If the seller didn't provide the informations asked at L.121-19 article (which here, of course, he did not, being not aware of the French laws), the delay is up to 3 months.
Of course, i complained about the stuff i received within 3 months. And i got nothing. That is clearly a violation of article L121-16.
Too, article L.121-20-1:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affich...Texte=20110426
Once i asked for a refund,he had 30 days to do so. Over that period, the amount is productive of interests at the legal rate applying back at the time..after 14 years of asking,that'd be at least the double of the $600.
It fully depends of the seller, and the merchandise. Some REALLY professionnal companies don't even require you send them back at all.
Adolf I was intending to keep quiet as there is no winning with you as you are like a Scientologist sadly, but you had to have that last snipe at me.
You clearly do not understand the definition of impartial. I weighed the evidence with no favouritism. I accept that you have a grievance, but I also accept that on the balance of probabilities that Dion/NGF was and is providing official products and in light of your ever changing story your demands are unreasonable.
This is important as you are not bringing a criminal case against Dion/NGF, you are raising a civil matter (long after your limitations have expired) and civil matters do require some evidence, but they do not require empirical evidence, only sufficient enough to carry weight on the balance of probabilities.
Also as I have said it before and I'll say it again - you have not brought what would constitute a case to Dion so he has no case to answer.
I also enjoy the way you misrepresnt the law as if one pragraph voids the rest of the book and as a particular note the book published has been amended to incorporate current features, not the 1997 laws in effect at the time of your purchase. Version consolidée à la date du ...
Your version dates in the law links are set to the current date, so your links are misleading, aka a scam, intended to make us believe you had the 2011 rights in 1997.
Just as you do not believe Dion's rights are retrospctive from the judgement I do not believe your laws are retrospective either, so you can stick your notary professional error rate where the sun doesn't shine as your links have an inaccuracy rate of 100%! The correct link for your Article L121-20 du Code de la Consommation legislation at the time of the contract is L121-16: http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affich...Texte=19970426
There are other laws too you know which may work in Dion's favour. You may win your claim for a fucking manual of all things, but as you have already admitted to making better quality reproductions and as you do not hold any rights this could make you liable for a counter-claim. You can't have your cake and eat it in this situation, sorry.
I had no previous private messaging with Dion - only public messages where he was unhappy with me for altering his posts. Yesterday I felt the need to PM him to give him my condolences as if many NGF customers are as annoying with a 14 year grudge over a fucking manual of all things then his life must be shit unless he ignored you all, and if he did I don't blame him.
Last edited by LeGIt; 04-26-2011 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Fucking typos Grr!
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Probably not. If you work as a paralegal/notary you should know that according to international treaties if you buy something from another country and it goes to court, it will be judged in the country where the seller is.
Woah wait a minute. So you don't even own this cart anymore?
You sent the cart back. He sent you a settlement and you cashed it. Now you want a new cart with instructions 14 years later?
Not sure about France but in the US if you accept a settlement payment and cash it then that is the end of the story.
And you never lied yourself when you sold a bunch of game as "RARE" 7/10 years ago ? Raking over all retro game from Yahoo / ebay jp ? Fictitiously pushing up the prices of retro gaming ?i'm mad because Dion is a liar and a scammer. He scammed DOZENS (maybe HUNDREDS) of buyers back at the time, because he lied faithfully on what he sold.
Everybody is guilty in this video game mafia topic. You have one of the most important collection and I don't beleive you win it with fairness and civility.
My two pence is that Adol is a bit of cry baby and although both sides do seem to have faults, Adol story keeps changing and he uses some piss poor arguements to argue his case.
My dealing with him have not been great. He bought something from me, gave him a number of postage options from standard, uninsured, untrackable postage to insured and tracked postage, he of course goes for the cheapest and when it went missing in the post, he demanding tracking, which I politely told him he did not pay for so he did not get, so he did a paypal claim, I should him a post office reciept of the item I sent him showing that I sent an item to France which someone from Australia backed up as all you get for an ordinary parcel. It was only presure from the moderators that forced him to drop his claim and I still as good will gesture gave him half his money back despite not really having to do so and he still moans about it.
Adol complaining about fraud is an irony explosion
Will Andre ever speak the truth??
Let's look at all his untruths and how many times he changed his story:
1st story. Claims he paid for shock troopers conversion and I never sent anything.
>. Untue. He finally admitted to receiving the game.
2nd story. He slipped and admitted receiving the game, he tried to argue that it wasn't official.
> Untrue. It has been proven and verified that NGF items are 100% official.
3rd story. Claims he was promised a manual.
>. Untrue. NGF never offered full manuals for retrofits.
http://www.neogeofreak.com/cartridge_prices.htm
But, I offered to print and send him a fold over instruction/manual, which is 100% official. He said "no."
4th story. After all else fails, he claimed that the game was full of eproms.
>. Untrue. We did retrofits from original mvs cartridges.
5th story. Photos surface of the game in question, he claims it's another game we sold him.
>. Untrue. His own scans/thread has surfaced proving the game shown in the scans is the Shock Troopers and it did use original rom chips.
6th story. Insisted he is a lawyer.
>. Untrue. He later slipped and admitted to being a notary public.
7th. story. Now he claims he sent the game back to me for a refund and that he only received a partial refund and is waiting for more money.
>. Untrue. This is getting ridiculous.
8th story. ????
>. Be sure he will change his story again.
If this was in a court of law, he would have been guilty of perjury on 7 counts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is clear that anything andre(adol) says will keep being untrue.
He will not listen to reason and he will keep changing his story.
I choose not to deal with andre(adol) anymore.
I will not to reply to anything relating to him or any game he's purchased. Everyone should do the same as he'll keep rambling on and he'll never be completely honest.
.
Last edited by Dion; 04-26-2011 at 01:01 PM.
"You have enemies?
Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - - Winston Churchill
Haven't time to answer evrything tonight,will do tomorrow, but just on that one:
The article hasn't change for 30 years, it is exactly the same in 1997, or even 1980.
Absolutely NOT. Check US/French law conventions, you'll see the law of the country of the buyer prevails.
Not in France.
Please read again the article, settlement has to be done up to 100% of the amount, not 10%, not 20%.
100%, not less. Not $0.01 less.
But tell me buyatari, now you read the figures, what do you think about them?
What do you think about someone selling a cart,with sticker,box,insert (since there was no manual) for $600, and ask $400 JUST for a color-ink printed sticker?
Be honest and fair, tell me what kind of business do that.
You're blaming me for something hundreds of sellers did? Wow. You gave nerves. Sorry, no, i never lied about that.
I did, but feel free to believe otherwise, i don't have extra time to change your mind.
And your forum mods talking about fairness and professionnalism is a bigger one.
Tonk was right, i can't believe you're siding with the most known scammer in Neo Geo history :)
Guess rumors were true...
I'm not a notary clerk, since such thing doesn't exist in France.
Consider me as a real estate lawyer, if you want. But my job's law competences far exceed the average lawyer ones.
Here comes another scammer.
You stole me money without even sending anything, without sending ANY proof you ever sent something, a post receipt,nothing, and you dare to talk.the good gesture had been from me,accepting only 50% of the loss. We're still waiting that post receipt.
Heureusement que le ridicule ne tue pas :)
Thanks to your buddies and dubious moderation who covered your scam.
Fortunately, you're known on other forums, but i wasn't your first victim :(
Dion, one day, when i'll have free time to spend, i'll love to see you come in french court at YOUR expenses. But please do not assault the judge like you assaulted that little kid back at the convention. That's rude manners.
I am just a collector. If someone mailed me back a cart that they had ripped the label off it would be a bigger deal to me that it would be for the manufacturer. I can't say what I would do in that case but no matter what we agree to if we did agree to terms I would hope that the other party would honor those terms 14 years later.
If Nintendo was selling converted carts I wouldn't buy one for $600 but if someone did buy a converted cart directly from Nintendo and there was no manual and there were wires as part of the conversion inside I wouldn't be shocked. Nor would I think they had a leg to stand on when they got what they should have expected.
I wouldn't pay $600 for any Neo Geo cart esp a conversion and to be sure I do not understand what the big deal is here.
Last edited by Buyatari; 04-26-2011 at 03:07 PM. Reason: added "not"
Adolf, you are being deceptive/misleading/scamming again. The changes are obvious to anyone with eyes, most notably the 1997 applicable laws were annexed in 1993 whereas the 2011 applicable laws were annexed in 2005 and added a fuckload more text, so yes there is a big difference and I'm not falling for any of your crap any more.
I actually believed you as I had no reason to doubt you (despite you being crazy, 14 years grudge for a fucking manual FFS) when you said wires and EEPROM mess but upon seeing the pictures, no EEPROM and whilst the cart is obviously modified the work looks quite tidy so I fail to see your problem (as do you as your problem keeps changing)
FYI if you opened the cart it should have voided your warranty, also if you damaged the cart by tearing off the sticker in another fit of stupidity or rage (or both) also typically the seller does not have to accept goods that you have damaged.
Also if you posted all your nonsense in 11 seperate threads here I would have deleted all but one of them, informed you to stop being spammy and if you refused I would have banned you. There is no place here for retarded behaviour (other than my retarded spelling!)
My link as in force 26th April 1997:
Article L121-16
Créé par Loi 93-949 1993-07-26 annexe JORF 27 juillet 1993
Pour toutes les opérations de vente à distance, l'acheteur d'un produit dispose d'un délai de sept jours francs à compter de la livraison de sa commande pour faire retour de ce produit au vendeur pour échange ou remboursement, sans pénalités à l'exception des frais de retour.
Si ce délai expire normalement un samedi, un dimanche ou un jour férié ou chômé, il est prorogé jusqu'au premier jour ouvrable suivant.
Your link as in force 26th April 2011:
Article L121-20
Modifié par Loi n°2005-841 du 26 juillet 2005 - art. 3 JORF 27 juillet 2005
Le consommateur dispose d'un délai de sept jours francs pour exercer son droit de rétractation sans avoir à justifier de motifs ni à payer de pénalités, à l'exception, le cas échéant, des frais de retour. Le consommateur peut déroger à ce délai au cas où il ne pourrait se déplacer et où simultanément il aurait besoin de faire appel à une prestation immédiate et nécessaire à ses conditions d'existence. Dans ce cas, il continuerait à exercer son droit de rétractation sans avoir à justifier de motifs ni à payer de pénalités.
Le délai mentionné à l'alinéa précédent court à compter de la réception pour les biens ou de l'acceptation de l'offre pour les prestations de services.
Lorsque les informations prévues à l'article L. 121-19 n'ont pas été fournies, le délai d'exercice du droit de rétractation est porté à trois mois. Toutefois, lorsque la fourniture de ces informations intervient dans les trois mois à compter de la réception des biens ou de l'acceptation de l'offre, elle fait courir le délai de sept jours mentionné au premier alinéa.
Lorsque le délai de sept jours expire un samedi, un dimanche ou un jour férié ou chômé, il est prorogé jusqu'au premier jour ouvrable suivant.
As you can see in 1997 there clearly is no 3 month extension if the information such as contact details are not provided but here is the kicker - you did appear to have Dion's contact details thus L212-19 does not apply so you were never entitled to a 3 month extension anyway, if by some bullshit miracle the 1997 and 2011 laws are the same (which clearly they are not).
Did the physical cart return to Dion within 7-8 days? No? Then STFU!
You are of course free to say what you like here and take Dion to court, but if you tried any of that 'you're all biased crap' just because they don't rule in your favour in a courtoom as you do to the mods here any self respecting Judge is going to tell you to GTFO.
If I were you Adolf, I'd start looking for another day job or check myself in to psychiatric ward.
Last edited by LeGIt; 04-26-2011 at 03:36 PM.
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It's funny how you avoid the fact there was wires on purpose ^_^. Talk about credibility
Haha, you're quoting L121-16 with L121-20, and saying it is the same article. Your math is brilliant :thumbsup:
Just read the 1997 one, it just says the same thing: the customer has 7 days to complain, which i did.
The 3 month is ANOTHER extension. I never told that part never changed. Besides, i NEVER USED it, since i reacted within 7 days. and it is NOT THE SAME ARTICLE! I don't give a damn about the 3 months extension, and i never did.
There was NO DIFFERENCE for 30 years. I'm speaking of the 7 days since the beginning, but you're deaf.
I'll do it in french , up to you to translate, i'm tired speaking another language:
Ce dont je parlais, c'est de la base légale des 7 jours. C'est CA qui n'a jamais changé en 30 ans, et non pas les 3 mois qui ont été ajouté SI jamais les conditions de l'autre article (à savoir).
Je me fiche complètement des 3 mois, je n'ai jamais eu l'occasion de m'en servir, ce dont je parle depuis le début ce sont ces 7 jours et ce droit de rétractation légal et discrétionnaire.
si tu ne comprends pas ça, je ne peux plus rien pour toi.
Il ne faut pas te mettre à t'intéresser au droit de la consommation français si tu n'y entends rien.
Je suis navré pour toi que tu ne sois pas dans le monde Neo Geo depuis 1995, mais SERIEUX, ouvre les yeux, ce type est le plus gros escroc de l'histoire de la Neo, TOUT LE MONDE le sait, TOUS LES FORUMS l'ont dit, il n'ya pas un forum neo sans un type qui se soit fait escroqué par lui, et tu as encore la mauvaise foi de le défendre?
Enfin, n'inverse pas les rôles: c'est toi qui a demandé si il y avait vraiment quelqu'un qui s'est fait arnaqué: et là j'arrive. Pas l'ami d'un ami, non un vrai gars qui s'est fait roulé, comme beaucoup d'autres.
Et tu joues les vierges effarouchées? T'es un sérieux hypocrite: sois tu poses la question et tu t'attends à ce qu'on y réponde comme je l'ai fait, soit tu ne la poses pas et tu acquiesces aux arnaques de ton copain.
Demande à ShawnMcCleskey ce qu'il pense de Dione t de NGF, et comment ce type a su négocier un deal de 50000$.
Shawn a fait un peu plus que Dion dans le monde de la Neo Geo: grâce à lui, on a eu DIX titres neo geo en US. Pas un comme KOF 2000, mais 10: Metal Slug 3,4,5,Matrimelee,Rage of the Dragons,SNK VS Capcom Chaos, Kof 2001,2002,2003, Samurai Shodown 5,5 Special,Sengoku 3, etc...
Lui n'a jamais arnaqué personne, et pourtant il est le premier à dire que Dion et NGF ont été les plus grands voleurs du monde Neo Geo.
Si tu ne le crois pas lui non plus, je ne peux plus rien pour toi.
Il n'y a pas de plus sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre.
Last edited by Adol; 04-26-2011 at 03:44 PM.
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