The unmoderated NEO GEO thread

[Adol]

Even if you prove Dion wrong then what? It is not going to change anything, you're never going to get an ERPOM or manual. A 14 year grudge over a fucking manual is quite frankly one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of to be honest.

Damn edits :)
Then commenting about it would be even more stupid to be honest, especially when you're not directly concerned by it.

Read my posts, i already said i commented it because someone said no one says he was a scammer (or something like that).
That's when i posted. I didn't jump at tit, i came weeks after.

[LeGIt]

You are speaking again but clearly not listening so I'll present the question in another form.

Lets say you were deceived. You can say you were deceived but no one nor no court will care. The only way the courts and I will listen is if you substantite your claim, which you have failed to do. The only thing you have provided are words.

The only reason it is so hard to disprove Dion/NGF had the rights in 1997 is because in all probability they did have the rights. If they didn't have the rights in 1997, after a whole 14 years you or the others would have found out and posted who did by now, yes?

If he said he is doing you an official release, pending the rights issue then an NGF conversion would still constitute an official release so you have no grounds here, sorry.

Now if he did promise a manual too then he would be a bit scammy and I would be pissed for maybe 14 days but NOT 14 fucking years! Get over it already!

Shit I've been scammed 3 times this year already but you don't see me stalking people. I either complain to them directly, take them to court or the case is ignored or resolved.

Given as you say you are a lawyer or paralegal or whatever you're changing it too now, if you had a strong case you would have been in court and won many years ago and this would be water under the bridge. You may have a valid grievance but sadly a week argument as you continually refuse to substantiate your claims.

As for 'officialness' and official I don't know how many times I can repeat this so you can understand it. You may be happy with SNK Japan quality but unhappy with NGF quality, both may use different styles, but pending the rights issue both are official. You don't have to like it but for the love of god you should just learn to accept it that official quality can be poor quality.

FYI it takes me 20 or so mins to write a post as it goes through many edits. Mostly typos (fucking brain damage argh) but now and again I see something I can improve upon too whilst I am at it. Also FYI as I have no invested interest ie neutral it makes me the perfect person to judge but I have the right to comment regardless so I do so in the hope of making you see sense.

[Adol]

It think the issue here is more about how the games was advertised before the sale than anything else. I think everyone can agreed that a manual was not mandatory back them. Only if it was made clear in the ordering form that a manual was indeed included IMHO.

Ordering form?
There was not even a website back at the time,only emails within provate email boxes or via DHP list. :)

How that game was advertised way back on NGF order form???
I see three possibility:

1. Only mention that it was an official release coming directly from SNK-Japan.

If that the case Adol is right to complain. Even if Dion have the right to sell those games in any form in US, it's not correct to say that this game was originally manufactured by SNK-Japan.

2. The order mention that it is a conversion using original part from MVS cartridge.

If Adol received a cartridge with EPROM then he is right to complain because original MVS release never used EPROM.

Dion probably have the right to burn EPROM with SNK software but still if he say in the order form that it's a conversion with original MVS part then the final product must respect that.

3. The ordering form say it's a converted cartridge of a games only released for MVS by SNK-Japan, with no mention on what the cartridge hardware contain.

If it was not advertised clearly what kind of part the cartridge contained then you can't do any complain about what the cart contain.

In fact it was a:
4. Mention that it was an official US home release, having rights from SNK-Japan.

[LeGIt]

Ordering form?
There was not even a website back at the time,only emails within provate email boxes or via DHP list. :)

In fact it was a:
4. Mention that it was an official US home release, having rights from SNK-Japan.

If Dion/NGF did have the rights from SNK Japan and converted an MVS cart for use on a USA AES system and that is exactly what he sold you, where is the lie?

[DarthCloud]

Ordering form?
There was not even a website back at the time,only emails within provate email boxes or via DHP list. :)



In fact it was a:
4. Mention that it was an official US home release, having rights from SNK-Japan.

If Dion indeed had the right back at the time, then it's what you got, no scam there.

[Adol]

You are speaking again but clearly not listening so I'll present th question in another form.
Lets say you were deceived. You can say you were deceived but no one nor no court will care. The only way the courts and I will listen is if you substantite your claim, which you have failed to do. The only thing you have provided are words.

And the only thing he provided are words either. No official document proving he had the rights back in 1997.
In 2000 or so yes, in 1997, nope.

Yes, I will substantite my claim, as i have plenty of materials to do so (emails,invoice,archives). But i'll do it when i claim to French court (whenever i want up to 2027). Here is not the place to do it.
You can check NG DHP list if you want to.

The only reason it is so hard to disprove Dion/NGF had the rights in 1997 is becuse in all probability they did have the rights.

Absolutely not. In all probability they did NOT have them.

If they didn't have the rights, you would have found out and posted who did by now, yes?

Simple. SNK USA had the rights to produce and sell Neo Geo home carts back in 1997 in USA. Not him.

If he said he is doing you an official release, pending the rights issue then an NGF conversion would still constitute sas an official release so you have no grounds here, sorry.

Yes. If he sends me NOW a complete Shock Troopers release,it'd be official,i agree.
But he never did and probably never will.

Now if he did promise a manual too then he would be a bit scammy and I would be pissed for maybe 14 days but NOT 14 fucking years! Get over it already!

I wasn't aware there was a time limit for scam.
I was pissed since day one,and complained since day one, as did dozens if not hundreds of customers, and asked for refund. He didn't care at all. That's the kind of business he was operating.

You can find more here if you want:
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222451

or in the whole forum in general..you'll see dozens of testimonies about their ways of doing business. Shawn McCleskey can say a lot about it either.

Shit I've been scammed 3 tiems this year already but you don't see me stalking people. I either complain to them directly, take them to court or the case is resolved.

Shit, i ONLY answered to YOUR post:
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums...0&postcount=43

My story is, then, not "a friend of a friend's story".
I guess you didn't expect posts after saying this, but well, it happened.It looks like you were not "all ears " after all.

Given as you say you are a lawyer or paralegal or whaetver you're saying it is now, If you had a strong case you would have ben in court and won many years ago nd this would be water udnr the bridge. You my have a valid grievance but sadly a week argument as you continually refuse to substantiate your claims.

I substantiated my claims way enough, thanks :)

I didn't go to court YET, because my time is more valuable than this amount. In fact i'm only posting that much because it's a national holiday here today ,and because he showed up. I never thought, after deceiving and ripping off SO many people on this planet, he had the guts to appear again in public.
Just look at NG forums, or NeoGeoFans forum and you'll have an idea up to how many people he deceived.

As for 'officialness' and official I don't know how many times I cn repeat this so you can understand it. You may be happy with SNK Japan quality but unhappy with NGF quality, both may use different styles, but pending the rights issue both are official. You don't have to like it but for the love of god you should just learn to accept it that official quality can be poor quality.

NO, NGF WAS NOT OFFICIAL back in 1997. For the love of God, how many times does it need to be said for you to understand it? SNK USA was the ONLY one back at the time (and SNK Europe for UK,as an example).

I cannot accept customer service can be that poor. Than you ask for a refund 1 day after receiving your stuff, because you were deceived, and you get this refund denied.
In France that is just illegal, any company selling stuff at a distance is forced to accept refund requests within 7 days of delivery. Since i'm a french customer, french law applies.

FYI it takes me 20 or so mins to write a post it goes through many edits.

Then you must imagine how much it'd take to post mine, since this is your native language and this isn't mine...i'd love to explain things better in French, but i'm not sure you'll understand...will you?

Also FYI as I have no invested intersat ie neutral it makes me the perfect person to judge but I have the right to comment regardlss.

I'm sorry, i don't understand your sentence.

[Adol]

If Dion indeed had the right back at the time, then it's what you got, no scam there.

Yeah, but he didn't. Scam it is.

[Adol]

If Dion/NGF did have the rights from SNK Japan

Here is the lie.

[LeGIt]

Adol I'm stil lll ears, but you have still proved nothing.

Dion can just post something to defend himself, but he doesn't have to. He can be content to watch the comedy unfold and not give a fuck as it is all done and dusted and there is nothing you can do about it now your limitations are up. That 2027 crap sounds like nonsense.

Adol you are making allegations against him, you must support them. I can read all of N-G.com and see a lot of complaints against Dion/NGF and maybe Dion/NGF deserve some abuse, this is true. But how many of the complaints are substantiated, PROVING Dion/NGF had no rights in 1997? I'd wager none.

Saying 'simple SNK USA had the rights' doesn't cut it. Where is the link to documents proving SNK USA had exclusive rights in 1997?

Also lets not forget if SNK USA have rights they may have the right to sublet and that 1997 is an entire YEAR with 365.25 days where at any one point in the year SNK USA could have started with the rights and Dion/NGF ended with them.

Lastly SNK Japan don't have to give SNK USA exclusive rights. It is SNK Japan's rights to trade, they can grant them to whomever and as many people as they wish provided they do not violate the terms of existing agreements.

[Adol]

Adol I'm stil lll ears, but you have still proved nothing.

And Dion didn't prove anything about the 2 things i pointed out. So?

Dion can just pot something to defend himself, but he doesn't have to,

Same for me. I don't have to prove anything, the fact i paid and did not receive the product that was adverised for is enough.

He can be content to watch the comedy unfold and not give a fuck as it is all done and dusted.

Oh believe me, he did it for many years, even when it was "fresh", and he will continue to do so.
He'll just mock his customers like he always did.
That's what a clown business is, after all.
And it ends to this:
http://digitalbullet.weebly.com/uplo...277892/ngf.pdf

Now you are making allegations against him, you must support them. I can read all of N-G.com and see a lot of complaints against Dion/NGF and maybe Dion/NGF deserve some abuse, this is true. But how many of the complaints are substantited, PROVING he/NGF had no rights in 1997?

Why would it be needed?
SNK USA was the owner of such rights, it is a common known fact.
Dion would have to prove otherwise, not the customers.

Saying 'simple SNK USA had the rights' doesn't cut it. Where is the link to documents proving SNK USA had the rights in 1997? I'd wager none.

And where is the link to documents proving NGF had the rights in 1997? I'd wager none.
I'm pretty sure with time we can find documents at your national company reigistry that SNK USA did exist and was in business with SNK Japan.
But NGF? Surely not.

Hell,SNK USA was advertiing and selling SNK stuff since 1991...Are you suggesting they were doing it illegally, when NGF had the rights since 1991?

Also lets not forget if SNK USA have rights they may have the right to sublet and that 1997 is an entire YEAR with 365.25 days where at any one point n the year SNK USA could have started with therights and Dion/NGF ended with them.

365 days actually, 1996 being 366 :)
Once again, your words:
And where is the link to documents proving SNK USA subletted rights to NGF in 1997? I'd wager none.

Lastly SNK Japan don't have to give SNK USA exclusive rights. It is SNK Japan's rights to trade, they can grant them to whomever and as many people as they wish proided they do not violate the rights of existing agreements.

Absolutely.
And where is the link to documents proving SNK Japan sold rights to NGF in 1997? I'd wager none.

[Adol]

Wow, i didn't realize that until now: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=92

It is really worst than i thought.

[LeGIt]

Perhaps technically speaking Dion's description is accurate enough to be genuine but misleading enough to make people think it is not an EEPROM with wires, I'll grant you that. But on a technical level whilst it is a cunning use of language which may appear scammy it is just good marketing.

You fail to understand that unless you have a case to present, Dion does not have case to answer. No proof = no case. Now if you approach this issue in a well articulated manner with links proving your claims I'm sure Dion would then be happy to oblige you with some form of well thought out official rebuttal.

I'm getting nowhere with you though and to be honest I'm beginning to see why Dion would ignore the rest of his customers too.

Now lets ssume there is a way out of this. You want an official release. Send Dion your 1997 cart back, get him to send it you back with a warranty sticker on it using the proven 2000's rights, job done it is official all over again. Is'nt that what you really want? Because you won't ever get a manual or your money back nor EPROM nor no wires nor should Dion have to do it if he had the rights in 1997 anyway, but if it is the only way to make you STFU....

I am sorry you feel you were scammed, I'm sorrier still if it turns out you were indeed scammed as I know how it feels to lose many thousands of pounds, but everything you are stating seems to suggest you were merely mislead and Dion/NGF did nothing wrong and your weak unsubstantiated arguments don't help your case one bit, so I bid you adieu.

My silence does not mean that you are right, just that I do not have the stamina to contend with someone as fanatical as a religious extremist, ignoring all logic, pursuing a fucking manual of all things for 14 years with no hope of ever getting one.

I have explained everything I feel I needed to explain, if you fail to understand it then it is your loss but you are be doing yourself no favours by refusing to be thorough.

[Adol]

Perhaps technically speaking Dion's description is accurate enough to be genuine but misleading enough to make people think it is not an EEPROM with wires, I'll grant you that. But on a technical level whilst it is a cunning use of langague which may appear scammy it is just good marketing.

It's just scam.

You fail to understand that unless you have a case to present, Dion does not have case to answer. No proof = no case. Now if you approach this issue in a well articulated manner with links proving your claims I'm sure Dion would then be happy to oblige you with some form of well thought out official rebuttal.

Well, there are cases, mine and others, just go to www.neo-geo.com forums and read them, they've been there for more than a decade.
You can't deny that.
Here's your link: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums
Type in search engine "dion", "thief" and you'll get plenty of testimonies.

After 2 pages of debate, i'm dying to ask you a question: How much Dion paid you?
Seriously, Tonk was right on that point. You have a really shady conception of being neutral.
You're saying "no one was really scammed, it's just a friend of a friend's story".
Then i come. I wouldn't have come if you hadn"t posted such post.

And sincie I'm not a 1 day old member, i'm here for years, and have hundreds of posts (which would disqualify me it seems). I come and i say: i was scammed.

And yet you're doubting it. That's a really incredible conception of neutralism.

I'm getting nowhere with you though and to be honest I'm beginning to see why Dion would ignore the rest of his customers too.

Then you're as crappy as him when it comes to business practices.
Does the sentence "The customer is always right" exist in USA/UK?
It is so easy to ignore scammed customers.

I am sorry you feel you were scammed, I m sorrier still if it turns out you were indeed scammed as I know how it feels to lose many thousands of pounds, but everything you are stating seems to suggest you were merely mislead and Dion/NGF did nothing wrong and your weak unsubstantiated arguments don't help your case one bit, so I bid you adieu.

Nope, everything suggests i have been scammed.
That's your opinio,i have mine, but i'm the one who lost hundreds of us$ in the process, not you, unfortunately.
so i bid you "dommage"

My silence does not mean that you are right, just that I do not have the stamina to contend with someone as fanatical as as a religious extremist, ignoring all logic, pursuing a fucking manual of all things for 14 years with no hope of ever getting one.

Fine, i guess it's useless to debate with someone who follows, like a sheep or a Scientology fanatic, everything his guru (Dion here) says. I'm pretty sure you'll jump off the cliff if he asks to.
That's how neutral you were. :thumbsup:

[Buyatari]

Ok so you don't question that he has the rights now.

If you send him the game back and he types up a paragraph on controls in Microsoft word,prints it and then sends it back to you with your game then it will be official and complete.

[Adol]

Ok so you don't question that he has the rights now.

To me,it is pretty clear he has no rights at all.
But, if you want to believe he has the rights since SNK Playmore deal/press/release/court stuff whatever,fine.
that doesn't change the fact he never had them prior to this date.

If you send him the game back and he types up a paragraph on controls in Microsoft word,prints it and then sends it back to you with your game then it will be official and complete.

Absolutely not :)
That won't change the fact that he sold something as official when he didn't have rights to do so.
I can't sell cars as Ferraris until i've signed with Ferrari.

[Adol]

Andre, I will try to keep it very simple for you as this will be the last time I explain it.

1. You ordered a shock troopers official cartridge from NGF.

Yes.

2. You received an official shock troopers.

No, i did not.

The game does NOT include a manual.

NO, you advertized it as complete including MANUAL. Honor your words.

3. It was an mvs/aes retrofit. No eproms were used.

Plain LIE. Cartridge was opened, and pictures were sent to you AND to DHP list, showing all the eproms and wires. Don't deny it.

4. playmore press release stated NGF SOLD games with authorization from snk-japan.
(SOLD is PAST TENSE - meaning our rights were from BEFORE the settlement)
(we still have the rights to sell/repackage any/all aes games on the court agreed settlement list)

Until proven otherwise, no date is established. If i follow your logic, you should get rights up to Jesus Christ birth. It doesn't work that way.

5. We are no longer doing neogeo business. NGF is just a part of neogeo history and I am here posting as a fan, collector, and as a past industry insider.

NGF is just part of scamming history in the Neo Geo world, i agree to that.
Those 3 letters are equivalent to robbery and deception.
But the fact that you're no longer doing business doesn't mean you're not accountable for your actions.

6. If you like, I can type up and print a one page instruction sheet/manual fold over. This way you will feel the game is complete. (thanks to BuyAtari for the suggestion)

Haha.
As long as it is a Shock Troopers manual, i'm fine with it.
Do that, along with the 14years interest rate for $600 (that's like another $600 with a low 5%/year interest), and we're good.

[benhat]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dion
3. It was an mvs/aes retrofit. No eproms were used.

Plain LIE. Cartridge was opened, and pictures were sent to you AND to DHP list, showing all the eproms and wires. Don't deny it.

I think this is a central point here.
One claims that the cart was a clean MVS -> AES conversion, the other that the cart was full of EPROMS and wires.
Let have the pics of the cart, PCBs, chips etc posted in the thread so we can see what the conflict is about.

[Cyantist]

It seems there are only one way to solve this

Dion: Find the exact line reference where the Playmore release said that games produced after and before were official

Adol: Find the page that states it promised a manual. The way back machine (and some others) can probably do this. If you were smart all those years ago you would've screenshotted and or saved/printed the page out as soon as you got scammed.

[Alchy]

Can we see the original NGF advert for that game?

[Adol]

I think this is a central point here.
One claims that the cart was a clean MVS -> AES conversion, the other that the cart was full of EPROMS and wires.
Let have the pics of the cart, PCBs, chips etc posted in the thread so we can see what the conflict is about.

When i'll get back to Paris, where my email box has pre-2000 emails inside it, i'll find back the piocture in my old DD.
Unless you can point me pre-2000 NG DHP List,and i'll do the search chronolagically, since i posted all pics back there a LOONG time ago :)
But yes, i saved them of course...maybe there are still pics on Neo-geo.com forums either..will check it.