The unmoderated NEO GEO thread

[Dion]

Hehe this is true, I don't know all the facts but who could come into this thread and get them?

Step 1. Dion says he did have the rights and some say he didn't.
Step 2. Everyone says everyone is lying.
Step 3. Go to step 1.

Here's the BEST and LEGAL solution
snkplaymore signed a sworn affidavit in US Federal Court stating that NeoGeoFreak/NGF-USA were fully authorized by snk-japan for distribution and repackaging with our NGF Corrected inserts.
**Sold by NGF with the permission of snk-japan.**
**NGF Corrected inserts with the permission of snk-japan.**

Click to view the NGF/SNKPLAYMORE PRESS RELEASE
<<Item #137. Shock Troopers>>

**press release isn't a complete representation of all the game sales/repackaging rights we have. The complete list is in the court settlement docs

Click link to view NGF's victory settlement court docs


There is no need to debate the issues.
When was the last time there was this type of undeniable proof and evidence to see if statements are 100% true and accurate?

This all was part of neogeo history and NGF was offered a substantial settlement by playmore. The details of the settlement are sealed, but just with that press release should provide insight as to what kind of amounts we're talking about to not pursue the countersuit of a frivolous lawsuit, slander, defamation, lost revenues, etc... All I can say is $$$$$$
.

[Buyatari]

AFAIK, rights are not retroactive. You'd have to prove it otherwise.
Face it, you had no official rights back in 97/98.
I, then, wait for my official game, COMPLETE (since you finally admit there was no manual), 14 years later.
Feel free to send it to Boulogne-Billancourt address if you still have it, no problem.
Thanks

I'm not sure how he is expected to send a manual even today when no one got one. Complete means that the game has everything that was included when it was originally sold. If it was never sold with a manual then ...I just don't understand I guess.

Your copy is just as complete as every other copy out there I would think? right?

[Adol]

Your copy is just as complete as every other copy out there I would think? right?

Nope. He sold it WITH manual, and claimed it was with manual since first day. I never received it
And you can see that for 2 pages now,he DELIBERATELY AVOID the question.
Dion, WHERE IS THE MANUAL? ANSWER THIS! Stop hiding!

Besides, the uncomplete Shock Troopers CANNOT be official, since when i opened the cart there was ONLY EPROMS and FORTY SEVEN WIRES between them!
Yep, 47!
Just admit it Dion, it was just plain bootleg.
The guy used wires,eproms, and call it official? Duh.

[BM-Viper]

Well as I understand it there was no AES version of Shock Troopers released, so you'd have to have a conversion.. so I'm not sure why you're so shocked.

[DarthCloud]

Repackage/Retrofit
Yes, it was an authorized repackage as listed in the playmore press release.
Retrofitted from an original mvs cart to an original aes cart. (aka conversion)
All parts are fully original (boards, chips, cartridge case, and snaplock case)

Shock Troopers is clearly one of the best action games on the neogeo and one of my personal favorites as well.
.

Nope. He sold it WITH manual, and claimed it was with manual since first day. I never received it
And you can see that for 2 pages now,he DELIBERATELY AVOID the question.
Dion, WHERE IS THE MANUAL? ANSWER THIS! Stop hiding!

Besides, the uncomplete Shock Troopers CANNOT be official, since when i opened the cart there was ONLY EPROMS and FORTY SEVEN WIRES between them!
Yep, 47!
Just admit it Dion, it was just plain bootleg.
The guy used wires,eproms, and call it official? Duh.

Now I understand better why you feel scammed. I would feel the same if I paid 600$ for a cart with EPROM. Anyone could do the same for much cheaper...

If it was really retrofitted from an original MVS cart, it would have ROM not EPROM...

[Alchy]

If you read his posts it's pretty clear he's saying that he's still waiting for an "official" copy, he's not denying you sent something. I understand that there was no official AES release so I'm not sure why he bought it in the first place, but I totally sympathise with his position that something you knocked up in your garage from arcade carts, and lacking a manual, is far from what most people would consider "official" - regardless of whether Playmore later fucked up in court and were legally forced to recognise NGF releases.

Here's a question. How honest were you at the time that these were conversions? Irrespective of whether or not you had official blessing, you must agree that potential buyers should be aware of the nature of the product they're looking at.

[Dion]

If you read his posts it's pretty clear he's saying that he's still waiting for an "official" copy, he's not denying you sent something. I understand that there was no official AES release so I'm not sure why he bought it in the first place, but I totally sympathise with his position that something you knocked up in your garage from arcade carts, and lacking a manual, is far from what most people would consider "official" - regardless of whether Playmore later fucked up in court and were legally forced to recognise NGF releases.

Here's a question. How honest were you at the time that these were conversions? Irrespective of whether or not you had official blessing, you must agree that potential buyers should be aware of the nature of the product they're looking at.

I understand what you're saying, but if playmore, snk, and US Federal Court say all games sold by NGF are official, what more does anyone want? Playmore didn't mess up anything in court. They just made a bad judgment in not contacting us first to see what documents and agreements we had in writing with snk-japan for many years prior.

We always stated that we were the official distributor for NeoGeo AES back in 1997, and people chose not to believe us. We offered conversions for mvs only titles so people could complete their aes collection, if they so chose to include those titles.

We've always been upfront and honest in all our transactions. We've been online and in public for many years, and have never used screen names and have never hidden. We've been personally invited to NeoGeoWorld grand opening by snk-japan, at the Tokyo Game Show booths for snk and later for Aruze, at public trade shows in the USA, even had booths at the CGE 3 years in a row without fear of trying to hide or avoid anyone.


Andre originally stated he never received anything from NGF.
He has now changed his story 3 times.

What else can I do or say at this point?
He's had the game for almost 14 years. He knew it was a retrofit. He was fully aware the game did not include a manual. He was fully aware/is aware that the game is 100% official and fully authorized by snk, playmore, NeoGeoFreak/NGF-USA, and stated as such in US Federal Court.
I'm sure if the day ever comes and he decides to sell his Shock Troopers, he will clearly state that it's an official version from NGF.

Can people please drop the questioning on if NGF is official or not. It's been verified over and over again, and the case is closed.
.

[Alchy]

We always stated that we were the official distributor for NeoGeo AES back in 1997, and people chose not to believe us. We offered conversions for mvs only titles so people could complete their aes collection, if they so chose to include those titles.

Sorry to hammer away on this one, but that doesn't actually answer the question. Did you clearly label all conversion sales as such? If you did then Adol has no leg to stand on. If you didn't then your business practices were deceptive.

Andre originally stated he never received anything from NGF.

He didn't, at least, not here in this thread. He originally stated that he's still waiting for an "official" game to be sent because he feels that what he was sent doesn't qualify, hence the discussion about what people consider "official". And yes, I'll agree we're probably as far along with that topic as we're going to get.

[Alchy]

Yes, it was fully understood that it was mvs/aes retrofit (conversion). This was talked about on the dhp mailing list years ago, and we told everyone that NGF would be offering special conversions of mvs only titles.

Unless anyone can say otherwise then Adol is in the wrong here. What I can't understand is why someone would buy a conversion and then complain that it was a conversion. I'll bow out until Adol contributes his version of events.

[_SD_]

Do you have any pictures of your Shock Troopers, Dion? I've seen a few conversions all with different inserts, just wondering which is the official NGF design? Did you only do English versions of the inserts or Japanese too?

[Buyatari]

Unless anyone can say otherwise then Adol is in the wrong here. What I can't understand is why someone would buy a conversion and then complain that it was a conversion. I'll bow out until Adol contributes his version of events.

From the sound of it I think Adol is mad that his $600 conversion cart looks like a umm.....conversion cart.

I can't blame him there but then why do you buy a $600 conversion cart in the first place? Perhaps back then that was the only way you could play the game at home.

From how upset Adol is and without seeing the game I am guessing Dion could have probably done a better job with appearance but as with any business I am sure he was more concerned with the actual working product than with the packaging esp on what would have to be called a special order.

If I called up a company and wanted to special order something. Anything. I can't see them creating new documents to match the special order. Either I'd get the standard documents that came with the non custom order product or none at all.

[LeGIt]

Lets say for arguments sake that Dion is and was the official distributor. Whatever crap he peddles then becomes official too provided he operates within the terms of his agreement.

Now Adol bought a conversion cart. He didn't get a manual for it, so he is bitching about it. But no one else got a manual too as the official release came with no manual.

The lack of manual in no way shape or form makes the product any less official - it is still the real deal.

Adol - you paid $600 and got the complete official release and you should be greatful you even received the game at all - I didn't appreciate paying $700 for a disc that arrived damaged now I have no disc, no money and no communication at all from my seller (who isn't Dion/NGF BTW) and I have been a whole lot more civil to them than you have with Dion.

You should also be greatful Dion as a seller is speaking to you despite your unreasonable attitude, though clearly you do not appear to be listening.

As for the loss of the manual which isn't a loss at all because there was no manual - you are not wrong to have expected a manual but until Health and Safety laws came into place they were not mandatory, nor do they need to provide content beyond the epilepsy warnings etc.

Adol be reasonable, get over it and end your conquest or I should have to name you Adolf in future :P

[Adol]

Yes, it was fully understood that it was mvs/aes retrofit (conversion). This was talked about on the dhp mailing list years ago, and we told everyone that NGF would be offering special conversions of mvs only titles.

In his original post in this thread (page 4), he originally said he sent me $600 for Shock Troopers conversion and that he is still waiting. That I sent him nothing and completely scammed him. He edited the post, but I did manage to make a partial quote where he admits he ordered a shock troopers conversion.

As I said, his story has changed 3 times in this thread alone.
Now can we drop the subject. I don't want to talk about one person's order, especially when he wasn't being honest in his original post. Also, he did many deals with us after that purchase.
.

My true original posts were on the DHP Mailing list,back in 1997.
I complained already at that time, as well as dozens of buyers. I was completely honest since 1997 in this deal, and you can check DHP list by yourself to see my posts.

You want to look more idiot than you already are: i never changed my story, it's simple to understand:
I paid for an OFFICIAL Shock Troopers, complete cart, and i received a stupid convert, full of WIRES and EPROMS, without even a manual.
This DOES NOT QUALIFY for an official cart because:
1) When you shipped it, you hadn't any official rights, and such rights are not retroactive.
2) A cart full of WIRES and EPROMS cannot be official.
3) A game without manual is NOT COMPLETE.

Then YES, i am STILL waiting to recieve the product i paid for. I NEVER RECEIVED IT, but garbage instead. I didn't pay $600 for such shit.

Finally, Dion, be a man, and don't avoid the question a fifth time: WHERE IS THE MANUAL.
You can be certain i won't drop the subject until i receive it.

Buyatari: i'm mad because Dion is a liar and a scammer. He scammed DOZENS (maybe HUNDREDS) of buyers back at the time, because he lied faithfully on what he sold.
I was doing converts by myself way before he did, i wasn't waiting for NGF to have some. That's why, when he claimed to sell official carts for $600 (or $700), i paid for one.
And the shitty convert i received wasn't worth more than $200, since i could do better ones with such money (ones with REAL chips and NO WIRES)...the guy was so cheap he used World Heroes 2 boards,so he had to use tons of wires and EPROMS, because it'd be even more profitable than using FF3 boards (i don't even say if he was using REAL Shock Troopers MVS chips)..
So yes, he lied from the beginning, and thanks to DHP ML archives everybody can see that.

LeGit: a crappy convert with 47 wires and EPROMS is NOT what you can call an OFFICIAL RELEASE, as he claimed back in 1997. He lied, period.
I cannot be grateful of anything, since he scammed me.
I'm in AWE seeing nobody really checked DHP lists, forums, and realized what kind of guy he was, and still is. Wake up,guys.
I mean, the guy was asked FIVE TIMES a question and still DOES NOT answer! Othermembers in another thread asked many "disturbing" questions, and OF COURSE he never answered them. That's the way he alsways acted: to brag and avoid. I'm not surprised 15y later, the guy stays the same.

About the laws, being a lawyer myself, i'm glad to tell you that, since i'm French, buyer's country laws apply, so French laws apply and he should have known that selling to me :)
I still have 14 years to make a claim and sue him if i want, and he will have, for his defense, to come to France to explain his point of view. That's how it works.

By the way, there's no conquest here, i only posted in this thread (with 6 weeks delay from the beginning of this thread), because someone said he hasn't scammed anyone.
I just opened my mouth to say: YES, he did, and he did it with LOTS of guys.
But other ones who told such thing (Tonk, etc) were banned or menaced to be, or saw their posts deleted..Nice.

Name me Adolf if you want, it wouldn't be the first time mods here take side with scammers :)

[LeGIt]

1) When you shipped it, you hadn't any official rights, and such rights are not retroactive.

Being a lawyer yourself, you should be well aware then that the burden is on you to prove he had no rights at that time. This proof has not been presented because AFAIK it does not exist - all evidence points to the fact he did have rights.

2) A cart full of WIRES and EPROMS cannot be official.

To be official is a legal technicality. Whether you are satisfied with the build quality or not is irrelevant here as it has no bearing on the official status. Sony sold official PSU's and batteries which burst into flames, Toyota sold cars wth pedals which failed and killed people. I have no doubt Dion may have on occasion sold what people may consider as badly made pieces of shit, shit happens, but they are still the official product pending the rights are in place.

3) A game without manual is NOT COMPLETE.

A game without a manual is still a fucking game FFS! Did you ask for a manual when you bought it and was a manual promised? As I stated before you are not wrong to assume you have a manual incoming however there is no obligation to provide one unless local laws dictate it is necessary for health and safety reasons. When you take the large costs of printing a high quality product for a small production run into consideration the numbers don't justify the pressing. All you got was a conversion from the official distributor. The only diffrence bwteeen Dion's and some other asshole doing it without a manual is that his conversion is legal - the bottom line is that's all you paid extra for.

Name me Adolf if you want, it wouldn't be the first time mods here take side with scammers :)

I do accept that you may have an argument, but if you do, you are completely off the mark and arguing the wrong points. With regards to the evidence against Dion, as in a court of law the burden of proof is on you to supply it. For all intents and purposes whatever sack of shit Dion produced in 1997 is official, end of story, thus you have no case to argue and Dion has no case to answer.

The only reason I take Dion's side here is because the evidence (or lack of) and reasonable logic take it to be the correct course of action but as an FYI I have annoyed Dion too by merging many of his posts :P As the site rules require 50 posts to sell this delayed his right to sell here somewhat and made some of his posts not look like as intended, but he has had to come to terms with the fact that I am the merginator! lulz

Feel free to change my mind but

a) you will have to prove he had no rights in 1997
b) accept piss poor build quality can still be the official build quality
c) accept that you bought the converted cart and not the non-existent manual

And lastly become somewhat what more courteous and less of a retard - your anger my be tainting your behaviour but you need to keep it in check, if anything to make you look less like a tard and more like a concerned consumer. If your intention is to make Dion look bad, sadly your anger is only serving to make you look bad.

I don't know about you but I struggle to take tards seriously and if I had to deal with you going off your current behaviour I'd have just asked for the cart back, given you a refund and politely told you to fuck off!

[retro]

Well Adol, don't forget this is the unmoderated thread. Of course, that means that you can say what you like about Dion (within reason) - but it also means we're entitled to our opinion on the matter, too. So if someone replies with something you don't like, I'm sorry but that's tough shit.

An official game can't have EPROMS in it?! BULLSHIT!! We've seen official games that have EPROMs in them before on other systems. If Nintendo want to make a NES game with EPROMs, Nintendo can make a NES game with EPROMs.

Now, Tonk was banned not for saying that Dion was a scammer, but for his manner. He was rude, abusive, I believe there were some homophobic comments in there IIRC and he kept on like a dog with a bone - and not in the correct channel. Tonk was a moderator, we expect moderators to be the voice of reason and act professionally. When he was told his behaviour lost him his position, he started on Kevin. Bad move.

I'm no lawyer, and as I understand you are I'll take your word for it, but I don't see any court accepting that waiting 29 years to bring legal proceedings against a retailer is reasonable - most retailers would be gone in that time! I would imagine that distance buying laws, as here, have a reasonable amount of time to take action - but that time would have long passed.

Why did you not turn it around and take benefit of the court case result? You then had a cart produced by an official distributor. I don't give a shit what you think, you have to admit that Playmore allowed him to sell the games on the list, which makes him a distributor. Therefore, If I wasn't happy with the game, I'd simply sell the game on and mention it's "from an official distributor".

I think we come to expect a standard of quality in the video games world when it comes to licenses - usually, games were still given a seal of approval from Nintendo, etc. However, there are times when people get a license to produce merchandise and it is of a poorer quality than we have come to expect. That doesn't make it unofficial, it just means the manufacturing quality was poor.

Don't forget, a video game cartridge isn't meant to be opened. If the manufacturer needs to use wires inside it, so what? It works.

[Adol]

Being a lawyer yourself, you should be well aware then that the burden is on you to prove he had no rights at that time. This proof has not been presented because AFAIK it does not exist - all evidence points to the fact he did have rights.

Yes, it is on me.
But thanks to DHP Mailing List archives and picture i've kept, i have them, thank you.
And i have dozens of testimonies available about his scams as well (not on this forum of course, but on neo-geo.com, and ML, yes)

To be official is a legal technicality. Whether you are satisfied the the build quality or not is irrelevant here as it has no bearing on the official status. Sony sold official PSU's and batteries which burst into flames, Toyota sold cars which failed and killed people. I have no doubt Dion may have on occasion sold people badly made pieces of shit. Shit happens, but they are still the official product pending the rights are in place.

Yes,what's relevant is to prove he had rights in 1997.
And so far, he has only shown a 2000+ press and court releases , and you must be aware rights are not retroactive.
He just has to show similar documents priori to 1997. Simple.

About the the build quality, he has to respond anyway. If i'm not satisfied with it, he has to comply with my griefs, and answer my demands. That's what a customer service is. Sony or Toyota customer services are excellent, you won't see them telling that their customers lie, no matter what. That's what a serious business is.

A game without a manual is still a fucking game FFS!

But uncomplete.

Did you ask for a manual when you bought it and was a manual promised?

YES.

As I stated before you are not wrong to assume you have a manual incoming however there is no obligation to provide one unless local laws dictate it is necessary for health and safety reasons.

Absolutely not. You have to deliver what was promised.
Once again, you're lacking knowledge of french laws, as much as i'm probably lacking knowledge of US laws, but fortunately, french laws apply here, thanks to rights conventions between nations.

When you take the large costs of printing a high quality product for a small production run into considertion the numbers don't justify the printing. All you got was a conversion from the official distributor.

Nope, since:
1) it was not proven he was the official distributor back at the time (and still isn't)
2) The product sold was not promoted as "conversion", but official complete release. FALSE ADVERTISING.

The only diffrence bwteeen Dion's and some other sshoel doijng it without a manual is that his conversion is legal - the bottom line is that's all you paid extra for.

No, until proven otherwise, there is absolutely NO difference between crappy HK conversions and what he sent me. Hell, the HK ones were better, since they managed to do a manual :)

A game without a manual is NOT what he has advertised and sold for.
He claimed to sell official complete games, and SO FAR, back at the time, we (customers) were not aware that the game wouldn't have manual, and the insert would be printed with crappy ink-jet color printers.
It's only when customers received the shitty converts we realized there were no manual.
It is just plain FALSE ADVERTIZING, and he has to respond for it.

I do accept that you may have an argument, but if you do, you are completely off the mark and arguing the wrong points. Without the evidence, as in a court of law the burden of proof is on you to supply it. For all intents and purposes whatever sack of shit Dion produced in 1997 is official, end of story, thus you have no case to argue and Dion has no case to answer. The only reson I take Dion's side here is because the evidence and reasonable logical take it to be the correct course of action.

Again, NO, following french laws, as him being a professionnal and me being the customer, he will have to respond to my demands, since what he advertised is NOT what i received. And i asked for the manual 14 years ago. I'm sorry, but that's how it works.

I could even make a second claim for the crappy customer service, since i'm waiting for 14 years the missing part :)

Feel free to change my mind but
a) you will have to prove he had no rights in 1997

No,that's the opposite. He has to prove he had right sback in 1997, since the only
I can't say "i'm Jesus, if not prove it otherwise",it's up to you to prove you're the one you say you are.

b) accept piss poor build quality can still be the official build quality

Again, if i can see a document dated PRIOR to 1997 from SNK showing that he had the rights, yes. Otherwise, NO.

c) accept that you bought the converted cart and not the non-existent manual

I cannot accept to be delivered something that is different of what was advertised no. That'd be just....eh...scam.

And lastly become somewhat what courteous and less of a retard - your anger my be tainting your behaviour but you need to keep it in check, if anything to make you look less like a tard and more like a concerned consumer.

I'm not more retarded than you or him are. Please calm down, there is no need to insult me. I'm a concerned customer, who has been scammed so far, and there's nothing wrong about it, nothing which would justify using such terms as "retard".

I'd have just asked for the cart back, given you a refund and politely told you to fuck off!

I asked so, 14 years ago (to refund me), within the first 7 days i received that thing.
Guess what, he denied. How surprising.
A professionnal and serious business wouldn't.

[Adol]

An official game can't have EPROMS in it?! BULLSHIT!! We've seen official games that have EPROMs in them before on other systems. If Nintendo want to make a NES game with EPROMs, Nintendo can make a NES game with EPROMs.

Ok, name me ONE Neo Geo official release that i can open the cart and see EPROMS on the boards. AND 47 wires.
Not Nintendo, on Neo Geo. Please.

Now, Tonk was banned not for saying that Dion was a scammer, but for his manner. He was rude, abusive, I believe there were some homophobic comments in there IIRC and he kept on like a dog with a bone - and not in the correct channel.

Yes, but whatever rude or abusive he was, he was telling the truth about Dion. I strongly condemn his homophobic posts, but i praise him for saying the truth about him.

Tonk was a moderator, we expect moderators to be the voice of reason and act professionally.

Well, you're only expecting then. More than once i saw mods here not act professionally. But that's another subject.

I'm no lawyer, and as I understand you are I'll take your word for it, but I don't see any court accepting that waiting 29 years to bring legal proceedings against a retailer is reasonable - most retailers would be gone in that time! I would imagine that distance buying laws, as here, have a reasonable amount of time to take action - but that time would have long passed.

It's precisely 30 years.I never said it was reasonable, i just said it's possible. There is a time limit, anyone can use it.
Whatever the form of the company, i still have around 16 years to take action.
Since i got "billed" by Dion Dakis back at the time and NOT any company, that means i can sue him up until 2027 or so, if he is still alive.

Why did you not turn it around and take benefit of the court case result? You then had a cart produced by an official distributor. I don't give a shit what you think, you have to admit that Playmore allowed him to sell the games on the list, which makes him a distributor. Therefore, If I wasn't happy with the game, I'd simply sell the game on and mention it's "from an official distributor".

But SNK PLAYMORE DID NOT EVEN EXIST back in 1997! Only SNK was.
They cannot grant rights retroactively. They can grant rights to produce POST-2000 products (like Shock Troopers) AGAIN, but can't grant retroactively rights for 1997 SALES. Impossible!

And, as we say in France "refiler la patate chaude", meaning i try to sell a crappy product to make ANOTHER unhappy buyer and being considered yourself as a scammer/liar (as the seller of such thing) is really not a solution.

I think we come to expect a standard of quality in the video games world when it comes to licenses - usually, games were still given a seal of approval from Nintendo, etc. However, there are times when people get a license to produce merchandise and it is of a poorer quality than we have come to expect. That doesn't make it unofficial, it just means the manufacturing quality was poor.

And in such case, you can ask for a refund, can you?
I did, within the week. It was denied.
Which serious company do that?

Don't forget, a video game cartridge isn't meant to be opened. If the manufacturer needs to use wires inside it, so what? It works.

Are you serious?
If you buy a Ferrari car, open it and see the components which were used are crappy chinese stuff when it is advertised as "made in Italy with the finest components ever", would you take "Such car isn't meant to be opened by the customer. So what?it works." for an answer? :lol:

[LeGIt]

Well to start off Dion does have to right to refuse your request of a refund.

If the item is defective, then NGF must replace or refund it. The item does not appear to be described as defective, therefore NGF doesn't have to do anything. A cart without a manual when no carts were supplied with manuals does not constitute a defect. The presence of EEPROM or wires does not count as a defect. If you opened the cart to detremine the state of conversion then you also voided your warranty and waived any rights you may have had. As in your laws you state he must respond to you - NGF did and said no thus NGF did everything they were legally obliged to do. Beyond that, given as the cart is assumed to be functional NGF has no other obligation to you. Your problem then is not that NGF is operating outside of the law, but more the fact NGF didn't go above and beyond the minimum legal requirements as other retailers might.

You must surley realise the Playmore press release in the 2000's is because the court case ended in the 2000's? Why would they have games in the list that NGF was distributing several years prior if they had no right to distribute them? You may argue NGF has the rights to rerelase older games at a later date, but if so where is the injunction against them for violating the other periods? There isn't one thus it can be assumed it is because NGF did indeed have the rights. Even though you are refusing to accept it, which is strange given as you claim to be a lawyer, the onus is on YOU to prove Dion wrong. I'm sure he could just post something to defend himself but he doesn't have to. As the aggressor you need to support your allegations and prove he had no right to redistribute in 1997, otherwise you're just spouting unsubstantiated drivel

As far as I'm concerned you clearly don't understand the definition of scam. A scam is a deception. Now Dion said he will provide you an official conversion cart. He converted it, which becomes official because NGF apprently had the right to do so. He then shipped the cart to you. That should be the end of the story - there was no scam, just a misunderstanding on your part as to what to expect.

If you are unhappy with the build quality, you should have argued about the build quality and dropped all this scammer bullshit. Lets not forget Dion was under the protection of a company and whilst Dion owned it, your problem is with NGF not him. Whatever timeframe there was for NGF to be legally obliged to address your issue has long since passed and you should just suck it up and get on with life.

Even if you prove Dion wrong then what? It is not going to change anything, you're never going to get an ERPOM or manual. A 14 year grudge over a fucking manual is quite frankly one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of to be honest.

[DarthCloud]

It think the issue here is more about how the games was advertised before the sale than anything else. I think everyone can agreed that a manual was not mandatory back them. Only if it was made clear in the ordering form that a manual was indeed included IMHO.

How that game was advertised way back on NGF order form???
I see three possibility:

1. Only mention that it was an official release coming directly from SNK-Japan.

If that the case Adol is right to complain. Even if Dion have the right to sell those games in any form in US, it's not correct to say that this game was originally manufactured by SNK-Japan.

2. The order mention that it is a conversion using original part from MVS cartridge.

If Adol received a cartridge with EPROM then he is right to complain because original MVS release never used EPROM.

Dion probably have the right to burn EPROM with SNK software but still if he say in the order form that it's a conversion with original MVS part then the final product must respect that.

3. The ordering form say it's a converted cartridge of a games only released for MVS by SNK-Japan, with no mention on what the cartridge hardware contain.

If it was not advertised clearly what kind of part the cartridge contained then you can't do any complain about what the cart contain.

[Adol]

Well to start off Dion does have to right to refuse your request of a refund.

Absolutely.As much as i have the right to say he made false advertising, sold me a crappy convert instead of an official release, ans that he handled it like a crappy seller, not as a serious business company.

If the item is defective, then NGF must replace or refund it. The item does not appear to be described as defective, therefore NGF doesn't have to do anything. A cart without a manual when no carts were supplied with manuals does not constitute a defect.

A product which was advertized as complete with box,insert,sticker AND MANUAL, must be delivered that way.
If not, the product is uncomplete and should be completed, or refunded.

The presence of EEPROM or wires does not count as a defect.

You're right, it just counts as "crappy stuff detected".
Seriously, which video game company ever delivered to you an "official" video game with 47 wires in it? Just name me one.
Even !Arcade had the decency, back at the time, to make converts with no wires :)
And they didn't have the guts to claim their products "official".

As in your laws you state he must respond to you - NGF did and said no thus NGF did everything they were legally obliged to do.

Then they're badly informed of French laws.They should get more information. Maybe French courts will help them to be informed, eventually.

Beyond that, given as the cart is assumed to be functional NGF has no other obligation to you.

Yes, they do. They must deliver what was promised. In this case, it wasn't.

Your problem then is not that NGF is operating outside of the law, but more the fact NGF didn't go above and beyond the minimum legal requirements as other retailers might.

Nope, there were 2 problems:
1) NGF (or must i say, just Dion) operated outside of the law, since he had no official rights from SNK (again, NOT SNK Playmore, but SNK, since SNK Playmore didn't even exist) back in 1997.
2) Because the product was not the one promised prior to the sale.

You must surley realise the Playmore press release in the 2000's is because the court case ended in the 2000's?

And you must surely realise the Playmore press release is consecutive to their claim (and the whole police procedure) which was WAY after 1997?

Why would they have games in the list that NGF was distributing several years prior if they had no right to distribute them? You may argue NGF has the rights to rerelase release older games at a later date, but if so where is the injunction against them for the other periods? There isn't one thus it can be assumed it is becaus they did indeed have the rights. Even though you are refusing to accept it, which is strange given as you claim to be a lawyer, the onus is on YOU to prove Dion wrong. I'm sure he could just post something to defend himself but he doesn't have to, as the aggressor you do need to support your allegations and prove he had no right to distribute it in 1997.

I don't claim to be a lawyer, i am (un notaire plus précisément) :)

No, i'm sorry, I don't have to prove Dion wrong.
I'm a customer, which was promised something, and what i received was not that thing. Then i wanted that thing completed. If not, then refund me. Simple and basic customer french law. That's how professionnal-customer laws work here. As the customer, i've been deceived, and the professionnal has to prove.


And later, when i found he didn't have the rights he claimed to have, the deception was even greater. I discovered he lied not only on 1, but 2 things.

It's not because it was found Riding Hero carts in the injunction proedure that automatically you had rights since 1991 to produce them.
It just means that FROM A CERTAIN DATE, you had rights to sell those. You can sell 1991 games FROM THAT DATE. And that date is past 1997. Then, he had no rights to sell Shock Troopers back at the time. Simple.

The lack of older injunctions doesn't automatically prove they had the rights prior to that date. There could be many reasons, and having the rights isn't one of them.

As far as I'm concerned you clearly don't understand the definition of scam. A scam is a deception. Now Dion said he will provide you an official conversion cart.

No.
He said he'll provide an official release. He never used the term of conversion back at the time of the sale.
The "scam" term is then perfectly correct.
End of story.

If you are unhappy with the build quality, you should have argued about the build quality and dropped all this scammer bullshit.

I did. But arguing about the build quality (wires,eproms, color ink-jet printer inserts..) and the lack of the manual doesn't forbid to argue about the "officialness" of this release.

Lets not forget Dion was under the protection of a company and whilst Dion owned it, your problem is with NGF not him.

Nope, it's with him. The invoice says Dion Dakis, not NGF.