NGF history and snk buyout details

[Dr.Wily]

interesting reading ! Thanks

[A. Snow]

You talked a few pages back about the prohibitive costs of doing a new run of games due to the need of new molds, pressings, ect... My question is do you have any idea where the originals molds might be now and were you ever offered the chance to purchase anything on the manufacturing side like that back when SNK was closing up shop?

Excellent thread BTW.

[Christer-swe]

I know I've asked this before, but you probably didn't see my question. Do you know if the rumours of a successor to Neo Geo Pocket Color ever was more than just a rumour? I remember reading an article where SNK claimed the successor would boast a 64-bit processor and being very excited about the possibilities.

[Amaradona]

Dion,

I am a fresh member of both NG.com and Assembler and this thread is a good way for me to build my own opinion on the matter.

I have few questions for you if you are agree.

When you entered the market in 1997 what was the size of the US market?

You have been working with SNK japan and may be a little bit with Playmore.
Have you been able to give more market insights to SNK or Playmore in order to adjust their strategy?Do you think you have been heard?

Thank you in advance

Amar

[Dion]

When you entered the market in 1997 what was the size of the US market?

Very good question. I've never been asked that question, nor is it something I've ever thought about. (well played).

The neogeo was at it's peak at that time in term of releases and production numbers (units made). I'm sure the US market was bigger than we or anyone else knew. Back then the internet was still in it's infancy, and all sales were originally done by word of mouth. As I learned of a new video game retailer, I would call them and offer them an opportunity to buy AES titles. Likewise, retailers would heae of NeoGeoFreak from their customers ( or from other retailers), and they would phone/email us asking for prices, etc....

You have been working with SNK japan and may be a little bit with Playmore.
Have you been able to give more market insights to SNK or Playmore in order to adjust their strategy?Do you think you have been heard?

Thank you in advance

Amar

We never worked with playmore. All our business was done with snk-japan, snk-usa, and later with their parent company Aruze.

snk-usa passed on so many great games
I attempted to help out the 3rd and 4th crews of the snk-usa branches. They really had no idea how to promote the aes system to the proper market. When the 4th snk-usa crew came, they pretty much passed on all aes releases for the US market. That's why during the periods of 1996-2000 there were so many wonderful neogeo games being released in japan, and not in the usa (kizuna encounter, breakers, double dragon, kabuki klash, ragnagard, waku waku 7, pulstar, blazing star, shock troopers, ultimate 11, aerofighters 3, twinkle star sprites, overtop, etc....)

(Luckily snk-europe did take a chance and release kizuna encounter, double dragon, and ultimate 11. But they too passed on a huge number of possible releases).

Around that time is when we started offering mvs/aes retrofits and also optional NGF english inserts for the japanese releases. That was around 1996/1997. 15 years ago!!

We started doing retrofits when no one had ever heard of or even thought about. Now many people do home-made conversions with inserts, but NGF was the very first, and the only officially recognized versions by snk and by collectors world-wide.
.

[Dion]

- I, as other people did, have contacted personally Visco, and Visco told me that it was true and they have given rights for Bang2Busters.

Even with that, Neoconception told me that Visco were going to publish the game release at his web, or even if Visco didn't do that, he will show the contract to given proof of that: at least, this is what he told me, and truly I expect this to be done, as promised.

I was simply pointing out how people rely on word of mouth, and some didn't accept snk-japan, playmore, or US Federal Court when it involved NeoGeoFreak.

- Regarding making money, life is not all about money, and even making little money is good if it involves little effort, but you make happy a lot of people... it would be a spiritual profit.

As I said, I would be willing to let various people use the NGF inserts, but some were strayed away from the negative propogand from ng.com

We always offered the NGF inserts for sale, so anyone and everyone is free to order the official inserts for any of their cartridges.

- Regarding the Playmore press release, it recognizes those titles were authorized with THE CORRECTED ENGLISH INSERTS (no sticker, manual, or conversion explicity named there, although in the list are showed some MVS only games), BUT this does not means the starting date of that right.

It seems people still don't understand how licensing rights work.
They didn't need to post a start or end date on the release because the dates were not in question nor were they an issue. Once the rights have been established, all backdates become grandfather and official onward.

I would continue believing is Aruze who gave you rights (starting year 2000), so all before that date would be not official, and all manufactured after that date would be official.

Dion, could you show the contract giving you distribution rights to end this eternal doubt about when rights started, and what they granted?

All aspects of contracts, agreements, payments to and from snk, and particulars are now officially confidential.

Our distribution and repackaging deals were done with snk-japan prior to Aruze becoming the parent company, and during the Aruze/snk years as well. Our repackaging rights consisted of all games from 1990 release to the final KoF2001/Sengoku 3 time-line (1990-2002).

[caren103]

It seems people still don't understand how licensing rights work.
They didn't need to post a start or end date on the release because the dates were not in question nor were they an issue. Once the rights have been established, all backdates become grandfather and official onward.




All aspects of contracts, agreements, payments to and from snk, and particulars are now officially confidential.

Sorry to ask more about this, but believe me it's only as I love to read about this facts, and learn more about all of them.

- So, according about you're saying: let's suppose during the SNK USA years you did not have rights. Let's suppose after the SNK USA years and the Aruze years, you had rights.

Playmore sues you, and it is demonstrated right then you have the rights.

Are you saying that would mean that if you sold MVS to AES conversions, or corrected inserts, during the SNK USA years, they were unofficial then, but after the trial, then automatically they would become official?

- Why Playmore could want the SNK or Aruze distribution contracts and agreements would become confiential by the settlement?

It makes sense they do want the settlement in itself being confidential, but I do not see sense regarding those other documents which are NOT of Playmore concern, as they were signed with other companies.

- Regarding the NGF inserts, it is possible even today to order them to correct collections?

[Dion]

Playmore sues you, and it is demonstrated right then you have the rights.

Are you saying that would mean that if you sold MVS to AES conversions, or corrected inserts, during the SNK USA years, they were unofficial then, but after the trial, then automatically they would become official?

Once official, always official
Yes, that is how it works.
If a company does indeed grant distribution rights to a said item, it is the item that is deemed official. Dates are irrelevant once an agreement has been made and items are deemed official/authorized.

Obviously NGF wasn't around in 1990-1995, but we are granted rights to repackaging of games from that time frame as well.

All retrofits and conversions have always been fully official and authorized by snk-japan.
We never sold any infringing items. All the artworks were provided by snk-japan for NeoGeoFreak official distribution and repackaging.
This dates back to 1996/1997.

- Why Playmore could want the SNK or Aruze distribution contracts and agreements would become confiential by the settlement?

It makes sense they do want the settlement in itself being confidential, but I do not see sense regarding those other documents which are NOT of Playmore concern, as they were signed with other companies.

Plantiff offers settlement, and wants confidentiality
Playmore offered NGF the settlement (plaintiff offered a settlement). They probably wanted all previous agreements and settlement terms to be confidential as it showed what costs and payments were made. Maybe playmore didn't want other distributors seeing what prices NGF paid. Of course, I am only speculating.

- Regarding the NGF inserts, it is possible even today to order them to correct collections?

Yes.
You can order any insert you want from NeoGeoFreak.
Remember, NeoGeoFreak/NGF-USA was a "doing business as" (dba) aka "fictitious business name" (legal terms) created by Chris and myself. The "NGF" company isn't in business anymore, but we still associate ourselves with the NGF brand name.
NeoGeoFreak and NGF-USA were legally registered fictitious business names.

Fictitious Business DBA link (for clarity on fictitious business dba)

That being said, since I joined at assemblergames, we have still been selling the last of our items, including repackaged games like Shock Troopers, Flip shot, Captain Tomaday, and the last 2 copies of our mass release titles. These were from our personal collection, and everything is all but sold out.

What inserts or items are you looking to buy?
The NGF inserts are 100% official and authorized, and really make the aes collection look amazing.

Fighting(red)
Shooting(blue)
Action(orange)
Sports(green)
Racing(grey)
Puzzle(yellow)
Variety(pink)

Inserts range from only $10-$20.
That's a very low price for getting an officially authorized insert.
.

[Pannolino]

All retrofits and conversions have always been fully official and authorized by snk-japan.
We never sold any infringing items. All the artworks were provided by snk-japan for NeoGeoFreak official distribution and repackaging.
This dates back to 1996/1997.

but this make no sense
if SNK itself didin't have intention to release some of the mvs title already out, to the home market.. are you trying to say they had the artwork for the isert "just in case"?

i mean, let's call superdodgeball
never saw the light of the sun in Japanese market as SNK didn't work for the "port"
but still original artworks for an home release really exist and you had them?

am i missing something?

and

Originally Posted by caren103
Playmore sues you, and it is demonstrated right then you have the rights.

Are you saying that would mean that if you sold MVS to AES conversions, or corrected inserts, during the SNK USA years, they were unofficial then, but after the trial, then automatically they would become official?

Once official, always official
Yes, that is how it works.

eeeh?

[Dion]

but this make no sense
if SNK itself didin't have intention to release some of the mvs title already out, to the home market.. are you trying to say they had the artwork for the isert "just in case"?

i mean, let's call superdodgeball
never saw the light of the sun in Japanese market as SNK didn't work for the "port"
but still original artworks for an home release really exist and you had them?

am i missing something?

and

eeeh?

Artworks
Yes, you're completely missing everything. The artworks exist.
Artwork were also used for promotional flyers, leaflets, mvs marquis, mvs flyers, etc...

Most times the same artwork is also used for music cds, posters, etc...
Design teams place the same artwork into the insert template, and voila.

snk-japan had sent us many digital files, positives, negatives, etc...




Twinkle Star Sprites






Folders filled with original arts, sketches, positives, negatives, etc..



Video links showing some original arts

NeoBook1

NeoGeo Pocket Promo flyers: complete english collection
(more videos coming soon)


Just do a little research and you'll see plenty of photos of the original positives and digital art files. Check the NGF Posterity thread. I added many photos there and also show the positives. Plus this has been talked about in the NGF History thread as well.

Please research before asking a question that has been asked and answered numerous times already.
.

[spoonman]

Once official, always official
...everything is all but sold out.

What inserts or items are you looking to buy?
The NGF inserts are 100% official and authorized, and really make the aes collection look amazing.

Fighting(red)
Shooting(blue)
Action(orange)
Sports(green)
Racing(grey)
Puzzle(yellow)
Variety(pink)

Inserts range from only $10-$20.
That's a very low price for getting an officially authorized insert.
.

So you were able to retain the rights to reprint AES inserts?

[Dion]

So you were able to retain the rights to reprint AES inserts?

We never gave up or relinquished any of our rights for repackaging.

Per playmore's settlement offer, we gave up nothing.
Playmore offered NGF a settlelemt not to countersue for frivolous lawsuit, defamation of character, lost revenues, etc...

NGF inserts, officially authorized by snk-japan and playmore, cover all titles from 1990-2001.
.

[Dion]

Clarity on mvs/aes retrofit conversions and on english inserts
Some people still ask questions as to the retrofit conversion from mvs to aes, and if those are also official. As I have stated many times, all games sold by NGF were 100% official and authorized by snk-japan.


Playmore posted a press release that states:

the video games on the list below, and only those video games, were purchased from SNK Corporation Japan, and were sold by Neogeo Freaks/NGF USA with the permission of SNK Corporation Japan. These games were sold by NeogeoFreak/NGF USA with the corrected English AES inserts with the permission of SNK Corporation Japan.

4. Aero Fighters 3
12. Bang Bead
13. Bang Busters
16. Blazing Star
19. Breakers
20. Breakers Revenge
22. Captain Tomaday
24. Crossed Swords 2
36. Fight Fever
37. Flip Shot
41. Ganryu
43. Goal Goal Goal
44. Ironclad
45. Kabuki Klash
75. Legend of Success Joe
96. Neo Driftout
99. NeoGeo Cup 98
100. Nightmare in the Dark
105. Overtop
106. Pleasure Goal
107. Power Spikes 2
108. Prehistoric Isle 2
109. Pulstar
114. Ragnagard
137. Shock Troopers
138. Shock Troopers: 2nd Squad
143. Stakes Winner 2
145. Strikers 1945 PLUS
146. Super Dodgeball
156. Twinkle Star Sprites
160. V-Liner
169. Warlocks of the Fates
170. World Soccer 96
171. Zed Blade

The titles in red bold are formerly mvs only. SNK authorized NeoGeoFreak to sell these as AES titles with corrected ENGLISH AES inserts.
The titles in blue bold were formerly only available with japanese insert. SNK allowed NGF to sell these titles with corrected ENGLISH inserts.

**Titles listed in the legal court records, but absent from press release (due to human error) include:
Diggerman, Bust-a-Move,, Bust-a-Move Again, Fun Fun Brothers, Gururin, Last Odyssey, Money Puzzle Exchanger,
Neo Bomberman, Neo Mr.Do, Panic Bomber, Pop 'n Bounce, Puzzle de Pon, Puzzle de Pon R, Waku Waku 7, Zupapa.

Playmore press release: NeoGeoFreak corrected ENGLISH AES inserts.

I hope people can start understanding that the inserts and the games sold by NeoGeoFreak are officially authorized and recognized by the parent company(playmore), by snk-japan, by aruze, and by US Federal Court.
.

[spoonman]

So anything that is already produced by SNK or SNK/Playmore as an English insert is not authorized to be reproduced as a "corrected insert" by NGF. Correct?

Clarity on mvs/aes retrofit conversions and on english inserts
Some people still ask questions as to the retrofit conversion from mvs to aes, and if those are also official. As I have stated many times, all games sold by NGF were 100% official and authorized by snk-japan.


Playmore posted a press release that states:


The titles in red bold are formerly mvs only. SNK authorized NeoGeoFreak to sell these as AES titles with corrected ENGLISH AES inserts.
The titles in blue bold were formerly only available with japanese insert. SNK allowed NGF to sell these titles with corrected ENGLISH inserts.

**Titles listed in the legal court records, but absent from press release (due to human error) include:
Diggerman, Bust-a-Move,, Bust-a-Move Again, Fun Fun Brothers, Gururin, Last Odyssey, Money Puzzle Exchanger,
Neo Bomberman, Neo Mr.Do, Panic Bomber, Pop 'n Bounce, Puzzle de Pon, Puzzle de Pon R, Waku Waku 7, Zupapa.

Playmore press release: NeoGeoFreak corrected ENGLISH AES inserts.

I hope people can start understanding that the inserts and the games sold by NeoGeoFreak are officially authorized and recognized by the parent company(playmore), by snk-japan, by aruze, and by US Federal Court.
.

[spoonman]

Dion, I read it and I'm not sure what you think I missed..
You had a list of 34 Neo-Geo titles in Red/Blue fonts and stated:

"The titles in red bold are formerly mvs only. SNK authorized NeoGeoFreak to sell these as AES titles with corrected ENGLISH AES inserts.
The titles in blue bold were formerly only available with japanese insert. SNK allowed NGF to sell these titles with corrected ENGLISH inserts."

You made it sound as if those were the only titles that SNK/P granted NGF authorization to reprint inserts for.

Come on guys. Read the press release or just listen to what I've stated.
NeoGeoFreak could distribute the games in their original forms or with the NGF corrected inserts. That goes for ALL GAMES.

The entire reason we first started offering the NGF genre correct inserts was because of the errors in the ones being offered by snk. We made corrected english inserts for many games that already had english packaging, such as Baseball Stars, League Bowling, Top Players Golf, Thrash Rally, AeroFighters 2, Andro Dunos, Viewpoint, all the action games, etc...

The list I showed above was to give further proof to verify that even the conversions and repackaged "japanese only" titles to english versions were 100% official and fully authorized.
.

[Dion]

Dion, I read it and I'm not sure what you think I missed..
You had a list of 34 Neo-Geo titles in Red/Blue fonts and stated:
You made it sound as if those were the only titles that SNK/P granted NGF authorization to reprint inserts for.

You're answering your own question.
The list on playmore's web site goes up to 171.
I only listed 34 of the mvs only and/or japanese titles that we were authorized to provide english inserts for because some people had some converns of whether or not the mvs/aes conversions were authorized.

The full authorized repackaging list encompasses ALL neogeo games from 1990-2001. Every title, be it english or japanese, we are authorized to repackage with the NGF genre corrected inserts (if the game so needed). (many of the fighting games didn't need corrections as they all had the correct red genre stripes).
.

[Yogue Daddy]

Wow, what a fantastic thread for a Neo Geo fan. I am not a collector (never really was) but I had a AES a one point in time with a couple of the great games.

I always find it funny how much Neo Geo collectors care so much about the inserts. Maybe they should call themselves insert collectors instead.... :P

Anyways, my question to you Dion is this : Do you have or have you ever had a hotel unit? What can you tell us about it?

From my understanding, it was a kind of big AES, but it was working with MVS carts. I would still like to get my hands on one one day.

[Jamtex]

**Titles listed in the legal court records, but absent from press release (due to human error) include:
Diggerman, Bust-a-Move,, Bust-a-Move Again, Fun Fun Brothers, Gururin, Last Odyssey, Money Puzzle Exchanger,
Neo Bomberman, Neo Mr.Do, Panic Bomber, Pop 'n Bounce, Puzzle de Pon, Puzzle de Pon R, Waku Waku 7, Zupapa.

It is interesting to note that all these titles are third party titles, for example all Face corporations Neo Geo releases of Gururin, Money Idol Exchanger and Zupapa are on this list as are Taitos of Puzzle Bobble and Puzzle Bobble 2 and Hudons Neo Bomberman and Panic Bomber...

Now we only have your word that SNK gave you permission to convert these (as they are not on the list), but did you have any of the third parties permission to convert and release them?

[Dion]

Now we only have your word that SNK gave you permission to convert these (as they are not on the list), but did you have any of the third parties permission to convert and release them?

It's not just my words, it is the sworn affidavit and signed declarations under oath by SNK-Japan, Playmore, and SNK NeoGeo USA, in US Federal Court, stating SNK-Japan gave full licensing permission to NeoGeoFreak to sell/distribute those titles and with repackaging rights licensed to NeoGeoFreak.

We signed our contracts with SNK.
SNK granted us licensing and repackaging rights for all games that they themselves had legal rights for.
All companies testified, provided documents, and swore under oath in Federal Court to confirm these details.
As it stands, I doubt SNK and Playmore would purger themselves in Federal Court.
.

[iskander]

Hi guys
I'm new to the neo scene though have watched it with some bemusement for some years but now i am in financial situation where i can start collecting.
i would like to ask Dion his opinion the following rare carts
Specifically what Dion thinks about:
the rarity- i.e how many copies he thinks were released and in why in so many small numbers
Who owns them - does dion think that the market valve holds and that such carts will ever come into circulation - are there more carts out there waiting to be discovered ?
PAL release 's - i come from England and am fascinated why so many rare games come from the PAL region - can he answer any questions about the PAL distribution chain and why some games for example where released in germany but not England?

the carts i would like to know about are

Kizuna Encounter (PAL)

Ultimate 11 / Super Sidekicks 4 (PAL):

Neo Turf Masters:

thank you