Paypal now doing full refund on "not as described" claims

[Cyantist]

one thing the guy did not even sent the item back after PayPal refunded the item.
anyway.
so i am at a loss so how can i be a scammer.

So you have refunded and he hasn't sent you the item and yet he's calling you a scammer.

Do exactly what he is doing. I assume you have his address? get in contact with local police force and get somebody who can speak english and explain the situation. Hopefully they wont just side with him because he's Spanish

Also correct me if im wrong but isn't what raylyd sold an illegal item ie both sides were in the wrong and the spanish police wont do anything because its illegal? If thats the case then i think ray you did wrong to refund him as you wont see the discs or the money

[thelastuser]

When a seller closes out their ebay/paypal account after you express an issue you have with the item/transaction... well that's just kinda suspect on the sellers part... i've had a few $500+ items I've sold where the buyer opened a dispute... to me closing your account at that point or when you see that a dispute is imminent is pretty sketchy at best.

And the 2 times i've had sellers close their account after the transaction I got my $$ back both times.. i think it's almost a given that paypal will side with the person who DOESN'T close their account in the midst of an issue ;-)

[thelastuser]

Question, How come nobody has tried launching a class auction law suit at paypal over this? I'm sure there's got to be some legal wiggle room to get one going.

there was one iirc 3-4 years ago... but it was because of buyers getting ripped off if memory serves me. Maybe why they seem biased in favor of the buyer now a days.

In my opinion and from my experience the resolution paypal usually wants to give/offers is for the return of the item and both buyer and seller being out postage for one way.

[ASSEMbler]

The class action, I was part of it.

The people who filed got 90% of the money and the add on people like myself got $15-30.

Class action only rewards the lawyer and original claimant.

[subbie]

The class action, I was part of it.

The people who filed got 90% of the money and the add on people like myself got $15-30.

Class action only rewards the lawyer and original claimant.

Sure they don't really work out for everybody involved but they do, do a good job of sending a clear message to the other company.

Paypal isn't going to quit what they are doing till there is some real repercussions from it.

[arnoldlayne]

This is a pretty sad story, but like others here I've been in the same boat. I sold a load of dvd's to someone in France - they clearly got annoyed when I asked them if they were going to pay (I didn't receive any kind of response at all, and the auction had ended a week and a half before...) The buyer finally pipes up and pays - I message them to say the parcel has been sent and less than 48 hours later the buyer claims their money back.

Anyone buying on eBay is basically quite free to steal whatever they want - there are thieves and there are honest people. Luckily most people are honest so it's not such a bad thing, but it would be nice if PayPal really did look at both sides of the story before making what appear to be automated decisions. The problems is - they don't.

I do sympathise with the buyer here though - 'Beta' means 'beta' it doesn't mean 'preview' or 'review'... or 'localisation copy'. 'Beta' means the game isn't finished yet.

I'm just glad that the Assembergames forum marketplace has recently addressed this issue and adjusted the rules accordingly. eBay might suck but at least there's some common sense around here.

[raylyd]

I did not refund the guy paypal just did it.
plus i dont think he will even send it back now.
i will just count this as a loss now.:thumbsup:

So you have refunded and he hasn't sent you the item and yet he's calling you a scammer.

Do exactly what he is doing. I assume you have his address? get in contact with local police force and get somebody who can speak english and explain the situation. Hopefully they wont just side with him because he's Spanish

Also correct me if im wrong but isn't what raylyd sold an illegal item ie both sides were in the wrong and the spanish police wont do anything because its illegal? If thats the case then i think ray you did wrong to refund him as you wont see the discs or the money

[Alchy]

I did not refund the guy paypal just did it.
plus i dont think he will even send it back now.
i will just count this as a loss now.:thumbsup:

See, the bit that still bothers me is that it looks very much like you sold copies of the same discs to two people. You have (or had) the capability to duplicate GDRs by the look of your photos and sales on this site and on ebay.

The same sale "SHENMUE BETA REV V0.400" is listed twice in your ebay history:
http://feedback.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayI...edbackAsSeller
On the 10th of October and the 20th of October. Both received good feedback (until the second buyer added feedback calling you a scammer) so obviously in both cases the discs arrived.

You need to clarify this. You're a decent seller, I've had no problems with you in the past, but this just looks bad.

[raylyd]

i have mailed the guy to ship me the discs back plus one thing why wait to leave good feedback on ebay and do that. to me.
plus how could i have removed the bad comment on my ebay guys any ideas thats a cheek calling me a scammer after all he had the cash back plus the postage and i lost on ebay fees so i am a real loss plus i owe money out to pay that debt back to my kind dad.
i will just never sell betas i may just do away with all my sega dev stuff i dont want to as i relly like all the stuff i have.
that's how it make me feel.
if i get the discs back i may give them to a lucky member here. i am not sure yet what lucky member will get this yet even if i get my discs back.

[raylyd]

One more thing i would never dream of being a scammer or scamming anyone.

[raylyd]

Sorry to here that dude.

[LeGIt]

Not sure how it would work though when you tell the police someone has possibly stolen my possibly stolen dev kit, though I guess maybe that part was left out and just mentioned you got conned?

If 'It was lost in the mail' he would then have the tracking number for the lost package and be able to claim insurance for you? The police would have probably asked to see such document as evidence, but as they are pretty stretched out at present, or incompetent, many investigations are not as thorough as they could or should be. The ipcc has had several complaints from me and I'm sure they will get several more. They wil ltry and they will fail, but at least they try to get things done though so you have to take your hat off to them for that, but it doesn't help when we need results :S

You should complain to the ipcc too with regards to poor investigation, make sure it is within a year of the incident or even the ipcc will try and shaft you. If they say there was not enough evidence tell them it is because they didn't get off their arse and get it.

[arnoldlayne]

In a follow up to my original post above - I had a look at the eBay listing for Shenmue and the few screenshots that were posted (notably the shot of Ryu in a clear landscape...) and the menu (with debug options clearly visible) seem to indicate that the game is some kind of beta (the retail version certainly didn't look like that!).

A question to the 'buyer' - what is it that you didn't like about the discs you received?

As for the 'two copies' being sold - I have no idea (or opinion) about that. That's for the seller to clarify.

[Cyantist]

Not sure how it would work though when you tell the police someone has possibly stolen my possibly stolen dev kit, though I guess maybe that part was left out and just mentioned you got conned?

Exactly. Surely his police force would check out the item.

[raylyd]

Hi dude i have paid paypal and my paypal is back to normal now so he will not reply to say he is sending me my disks back.
could some of other members tell him to please could some help me.
Thanks

This is for my disks back
kensaiken

[Serantes]

raylyd i had a similar situation as you, let me explain you how it ended, it may be good for others, cause it was a pain

I sold some arcade boards to a guy from australia called john macken


928,00 GBP


Well, first mistake i did it was to ship the items to a different name (but same address as the ebay account holder, well, it was my fault ...)

Anyways, guy opened a paypal claim telling the boards were not working, but as i was already scammed once, i cancelled my credit card, retired all the money i had on this bank and closed bank account aswell, so paypal couldnt get the money back from me.
This became a big problem to myself ...
Paypal asked the guy to ship the boards back as i did, but he refushed, so paypal ended closing the case and returning my money back (well, they never had it, but they returned my blance to 0 on my paypal account).
So two days after that, i got an email from paypal Australia that the guy gave the apropiated info to get his money back ...
this was after the case was already closed to my side, and if you guys read paypal eula you can see that once a case is closed, it cant be changed or reopened anymore.

So i got -928 pounds at my paypal account again, and paypal started sending me emails to pay or they will take lega actions ...

Well, one month latter, i got a letter from a Spanish company that tries to get money from ppl that dosent pays telling me to pay or i would be added on a public blacklist ...
I called them and told why i was there and that i was not going to pay if the guy was not going to send the boards back (thing that he never wanted), so they acepted my proofs and said that they would talk with paypal ...
Two weeks latter i got a letter telling me that i had 2 weeks to pay or we would go to court, so i got pissed and decided to hire a lawyer and sue paypal.
Lawyer called this company and told them to remove my info from theyr database or he would demand paypal, he remember them that i had proof that i have shipped the items, that he received the items, that he never shiped the goods back, that paypal case was closed and two days letter they changed the resolution (thing that goes against paypal eula) and so ...

Result :

Company said sorry and paypal closed my paypal account (i asume they got pissed to not win this time :) )

So my advice is : if some1 opens you a paypal claim, make sure they cant steal your money

Also, world is really small, once i was scammed, i knew that this guy was on the scammers list of some major arcade board seller i know :)

I wonder what paypal did to this guy (or they are going to do, cause this ended 1 month ago ...)