Driving Pleasure

[madhatter256]

Serious question, don't take offence, but have you ever actually driven a real car???

He's done everything ;-). He lives all over the place. He's a lawyer, gigolo, superstar, whatever. He's also a race car driver.

This is barcode. He does everything!

I don't drive like that. I don't have the car that can do that sort of stuff you guys are talking about. I can however get 300 miles per tank between fill-ups.

Can your cars do that? lol

[Yakumo]

Clutching does take time, more than a serial gear-box, but what it offers is power-control over the engine. You can half-clutch with a 3rd gear over a curve while maintaining your foot on the gas as appropriate in order to deliver the precise amount of horsepower needed to avoid under/over-steer.

That's 100% true. I do that every time I drive. In an automatic you just can't do that. It's either brake or take your foot off the accelerator. Neither of which have anywhere near the control.

Someone mentioned the sound of the engine as a pleasure. I also agree on this. many a time when late night / early morning driving I'll wind down all the windows, turn off the stereo and just listen to the deep bass rumble of the exhaust. But what I like best from the sound my car makes is the roar of the engine as I push in the clutch and shift up gears. Lovely sound, ROAR!!!!:thumbsup:

Yakumo

[GaijinPunch]

I think driving is bullshit. Give me a cycle any day...especially living in the city. Obviously this doesn't work for travelling or getting the kid from A to B, but for getting to work... I just sit there and laugh at all the suckers who can't bob & weave through car traffic and people traffic alike.

Neither of which have anywhere near the control.

I can cycle with more control than the average Tokyo-ite can walk with. I'd rather them perfect the art of putting one foot in front of the other and staying on a straight fucking path before tackling more challenging tasks like driving standard transmission.

[oldengineer]

He's done everything ;-). He lives all over the place. He's a lawyer, gigolo, superstar, whatever. He's also a race car driver.

This is barcode. He does everything!

Well yeh, quite, lol!

I was just amazed that he talked about slipping the clutch on the run, summat a driver wouldn't normally do, unless they wanted to wear a clutch out prematurely, not mention it's about the worst way of 'un-controlling' a car I've ever heard!

"You can half-clutch with a 3rd gear over a curve while maintaining your foot on the gas as appropriate in order to deliver the precise amount of horsepower needed to avoid under/over-steer."

[Yakumo]

I think what he was trying to say was that using a combination of clutch and accel while cornering is far more effective than just using the break. It may also depend on what type of car you're driving (No idea) but I do the clutch accel ballance when cornering at high speeds. Works a treat in keeping the power on.

@GaijinPunch: Yeah, we who drive in Japan know that most of them are complete shit heads at driving. No respect for other drives, can't fucking drive straight! and have no idea what an indicator is for. As for walking, yes you're right about Tokyo and other big cities. The amount of people I've seen not being able to walk without knocking in to someone is amazing.

Yakumo

[Jamtex]

Anyway, back on topic. Driving early in the morning is bliss. Only yesterday I went for a 1am drive through the country. Most relaxing and exciting when I built up the revs. I did get lost though which was quite scary. In the middle of nowhere without a single street light in site. Thank God for Sat navs!

You scouse pussy :110: Getting lost in the middle of nowhere, on a bike with failing front lights, a back light that turns off randomly and a road map that is just outside the area you are in, at 11pm on a Friday night is a little more scary. Especially with idiots that decide it's fun to speed on twisty dark roads.

[Barc0de]

He's done everything ;-). He lives all over the place. He's a lawyer, gigolo, superstar, whatever. He's also a race car driver.

This is barcode. He does everything!

I don't drive like that. I don't have the car that can do that sort of stuff you guys are talking about. I can however get 300 miles per tank between fill-ups.

Can your cars do that? lol

:lol::lol:

don't feel bad mate, I don't have a car of my own yet and i drive around in a Hyundai Accent, courtesy of my dad, 4door hatchback ffs, with a 1.3 L engine - the brakes are so shit that I rely mostly on gears and clutch to keep the damn thing on the road :110:

as soon as I settle down and get a real job I m eyeing one of these asap:

[oldengineer]

using a combination of clutch and accel while cornering is far more effective than just using the break. It may also depend on what type of car you're driving (No idea) but I do the clutch accel ballance when cornering at high speeds. Works a treat in keeping the power on.

Yakumo

Yeah, but its not true or correct is it?

There are no if, buts or maybe's.

Going back to basics you are supposed to used the brakes for braking and the clutch for disengaging/rengaging the drive between the engine and gearbox. The clutch has no other purpose in life and should never be used as something to get a car cornering at high speed.

Again, depending on what you are driving, the idea, at high speed, is that you brake just before a corner, to setup the CofG, steer through the corner and accelerate out.

Any attempt to do anything, other than steer through the corner will upset the CofG, unsettle the car, run wide etc, and lead to an increased risk of uncontralability.

If you are having trouble cornering at high speed you should either slow down, or adopt the heel-toe method of driving technique, or install a LSD and adjust the bias to suit.

I won't get in to suspension camber angles, castor angles and anti-roll bar settings here, but suffice to say nothing I mention is rocket science, with regards to basic driving skills.

[Calpis]

Everywhere I've lived driving sucks balls, especially in the morning commute/weekends/downtown/ghetto/East Coast.

Edit: having a manual in stop and go traffic or a hilly city also sucks.

[graphique]

Driving's a pure undiluted pain. If I had money to spare I'd just hire someone whose job it would be to drive me around when I want to go places.

[WanganRunner]

I generally prefer a proper three-pedal manual gearbox, but some sequential gearboxes aren't too bad. Others are awful.

I tend to like older, lightweight, fairly spartan cars.

I'm building an MX-5 trackday car at present.

[kiff]

Driving is a total love/hate with me.

I love driving when I have no set destination. Friday for example; I went for a meal with the other half and then we decided to go for a drive. Drove upto the north York moors and listened to some great music and just chilled out totally. I don't even think we spoke 10 words to each other in nearly 3 hours (If you met my gf you'd understand thats a rarity in itself).
Then on the other hand I hate driving. I had a site meeting this morning in Sheffield. There was an acciddent on the M62 and I was sat in traffic for 30 minutes then some 'old dear' decided to sit in the outside lane doing around 60mph. I think its other drivers incompetances that wind me up the most, for example -

Not moving over after overtaking on the motorway (sitting in the middle lane)
Not indicating on roundabouts
People on there mobile phones
People purposly getting in the wrong lane then cutting you up

Recreational driving = Win
Driving for a purpose = Big Lose

[Barc0de]

Yeah, but its not true or correct is it?

There are no if, buts or maybe's.

Going back to basics you are supposed to used the brakes for braking and the clutch for disengaging/rengaging the drive between the engine and gearbox. The clutch has no other purpose in life and should never be used as something to get a car cornering at high speed.

Again, depending on what you are driving, the idea, at high speed, is that you brake just before a corner, to setup the CofG, steer through the corner and accelerate out.

Any attempt to do anything, other than steer through the corner will upset the CofG, unsettle the car, run wide etc, and lead to an increased risk of uncontralability.

If you are having trouble cornering at high speed you should either slow down, or adopt the heel-toe method of driving technique, or install a LSD and adjust the bias to suit.

I won't get in to suspension camber angles, castor angles and anti-roll bar settings here, but suffice to say nothing I mention is rocket science, with regards to basic driving skills.

I see you're versed in Forza/Gran Turismo, too. Too bad our everyday cars have to deal with real roads and mostly factory settings. Then again, you might be driving a Ferrari for all I know and I m driving a Hyundai, but it's undeniable that using the clutch you can control motor power - it was used in rallying quite a lot, which translates better to the roads in Greece =)

[alecjahn]

I don't drive like that. I don't have the car that can do that sort of stuff you guys are talking about. I can however get 300 miles per tank between fill-ups.

Can your cars do that? lol

My Protege, though definitely not a race car (hell, it's a hatchback; boy's gotta carry shit!) got almost 32mpg last fillup (which is a number or two above what I normally get). 387 miles on the trip, and the empty light hadn't even turned on.
And it's fun to drive! Cold air intake and reserved aftermarket exhaust make it sound fantastic but not loud enough to knock your neighbors over. I love the slurp effect when changing up and giving it the boot. I wish I had a big turbo and blowoff so I could hear that, too. Psseaww!!

Though I really don't enjoy my coilovers sometimes... the roads are just not very well kept around here in some parts of the city. Try having a nice relaxing date while bumping and shuddering around the center of town! "I swear, this suspension came with the car." When I had the engine rebuilt, I was made aware that my front shock mounts had basically snapped at some point. Too stiff...!? Then again I get to blame that on the previous owner as I certainly do not thrash the thing.


At my last job, (IT support at a Ford dealership), one of the salemen had an STi with almost 500bhp. We went for a spin in it on lunch one day. 130mph is pretty crazy. I love how short first gear is when you've got that much pull. I drove an M3 once and I thought that was quick (sidestory: I was merging onto the highway and there was a semi in the way. I slowed down to get in behind him, and accelerated [well, gas pedal pressure] like I would have in my old car, and suddenly I was in front of the truck. waaa!).

[oldengineer]

I see you're versed in Forza/Gran Turismo, too. Too bad our everyday cars have to deal with real roads and mostly factory settings. Then again, you might be driving a Ferrari for all I know and I m driving a Hyundai, but it's undeniable that using the clutch you can control motor power - it was used in rallying quite a lot, which translates better to the roads in Greece =)

It is totally deniable "using the clutch to control motor power" and is definately NEVER, ever used in rallying, if it was you would be crashing/changing clutches on every stage, pure crazy lol!

...When I was younger I scratch built, raced, rallied, rally crossed, hill climbed, 24hr enduranced many, many cars, over roughly 20yrs, but don't take my word for it, I'm just amazed. :love2:

...I still own/drive 'super-cars' for 'fun'.

You have a accelerator pedal for controlling motor power and a brake for slowing the car down. Any other issues can be sorted at design stage.

As explained before a clutch only has one function in life, accept it and don't abuse it, it's your friend :-)

[Barc0de]

oh well..maybe you'd like to tell that to the folks who made Dirt 2..they have included clutch support in the H-shifter manual transmission mode, although you don't need to press it to shift gears...but -surprise surprise- it works like a charm in draining the engine's high revs so you can stay on course.I guess the world is full of unorthodox drivers then :P

eg:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driftin...29#Clutch_Kick

This is done by "kicking" the clutch (pushing in, then out, usually more than one time in a drift for adjustment in a very fast manner) to send a shock through the powertrain, upsetting the car's balance. This causes the rear wheels to slip. The foot should be at an angle (Heel-and-toe) so the brake and gas may be pressed as well, this being needed to control speed and stop from spinning out in the drift.
Clutch kick can also be used during a drift to gain angle at the expense of speed. If the car is about to straighten itself out, kicking the clutch will cause it to rotate more. However since power delivery is interrupted while the clutch is depressed the car will lose some speed during the process and damage the gears and crank shaft. The steps to clutch kick:

• Start driving into a corner but slower, and/or in a higher gear.
• Turn into the corner.
• Push the accelerator and a split second later, tap the clutch. Keep tapping the clutch to make the wheels spin and lose traction so that they slide, but don't let go of the gas when clutching.
• Control the spin with the handbrake, brake, or gas.

(If necessary, keep popping the clutch to keep the wheels sliding. This technique can be later learned at speed to add an additional amount of rear wheel slip resulting in more drift angle. During drift it is common to half or part depress the clutch pedal in a sudden manner to adjust the drift angle and wheel speed)

[WanganRunner]

Drivers in certain motorsports events absolutely use a clutch kick technique to rotate the car and/or initiate a slide. Admittedly, this is mostly confined to drifting-specific events like D1 and Formula D. I can't see a Rally driver doing it except for *maybe* on a tarmac stage, but even then they'll probably use other means.

Same idea as lift-off or a braking drift, you're intentionally destabilizing the car in controlled fashion at corner entry to let the rear loose and rotate.

[Yakumo]

At my last job, (IT support at a Ford dealership), one of the salemen had an STi with almost 500bhp. We went for a spin in it on lunch one day. 130mph is pretty crazy. I love how short first gear is when you've got that much pull.

Tell me about it. In my STi 1st gear is almost a waste of time. You're in it for 1 to 2 seconds then up you go. Many a time I just start off in 2nd if I'm not in a hurry to dart off.

We should do a Car sound thread. What does your car sound like? The only problem is how to record the sound from the exhaust when you'Re driving. You can't really hear it as it should be in the cabin, only the engine.

You have a accelerator pedal for controlling motor power and a brake for slowing the car down. Any other issues can be sorted at design stage.

As explained before a clutch only has one function in life, accept it and don't abuse it, it's your friend :-)

but what about when you use the clutch in combination with the accelerator to drive at a slow speed without juddering the car? I was taught that in the UK by a BSM driver and again here in Japan when I had to get my Japanese License. Clutch control is more than on and off for changing gears.

Yakumo

[oldengineer]

but what about when you use the clutch in combination with the accelerator to drive at a slow speed without juddering the car? I was taught that in the UK by a BSM driver and again here in Japan when I had to get my Japanese License.

How can you compare trying to stop the car juddering at 5mph in 2nd gear (for instance) with slipping the clutch during high speed cornering?

[Barc0de]

Imagine driving in the city at 80Km/h. You see a left corner at 90 degrees which is a narrow street. You brake, bringing down the speed to about 40Km/h, put in second gear and use the clutch to give the power a pause when you make the turn and then you release the clutch in proportion to the power you need to go off with enough speed. Street driving can be quick this way.

These are not racing conditions and there's a lot more going on, so you really can't afford to fuck up - precise control of your car's power is imperative - else you' d have to brake, shift into second gear and slowly build up revs/speed.

Reving the engine a bit with a half-clutch movement is the only way to get an acceptable acceleration out of weak cars, because their torque is too low at 1K RPM. It's as fast as you can get around a corner safely with a front-wheel drive >100 Bhp inside a city grid - slingshoting the car with a flick isn't really an option here.