"Piracy" war room, all stances invited

[Calpis]

Thought it'd be productive to have a place where everyone could rant about this issue, please support your opinion coherently and use facts if possible. I'm tired of hearing "damn f.ucking pirating bastard", I'm not enlightened. Talk about legal technicalities and ethics. Someone start already!

[ServiceGames]

I think that the reason that we did not have a piracy thread is because the majority of the board users are collectors and as good collectors we do not own backups. We're the type who not only want to experience the game, we want to experience everything that encompasses the game. Including packaging, artwork, and any extras that may be found. Overall we are more about 'owning' a game than just playing through a game.

[A. Snow]

Here are my personal rules for the justification/hypocrisy of pirating.

Games: I never pirate current gen systems but I do consider games for them that are never released on my side of the pond to be fair game. Same with betas or never released games. As for older systems like SNES, Sega CD, and especially MAME I consider to be fair game. I supported most of these systems when they were thriving. Why should I stop enjoying them when their considered dead. If the IDSA had a website where I could order any game that was on any system I would never pirate games again.

Music: I try not to download more than two or three songs from a mainstream album. I look at it as no different than when a band releases single on TV or radio except that I pick the songs. Classical, Import, Music from a TV show or commercial that you just can't get out of your head (It took me forever to find the music from the Metroid Prime and Panzer Dragoon Orta commercials) are fair game. As for videogames I figure if I bought the game with the music I should be able to listen the music when I want.

Movies/TV: I don't consider downloading an episode of a TV show to be any different than if I recorded it on my VCR. The only difference is the format it is on. As for movies If like the movie I'll end up buying the DVD. If I hate the movie then it's off the hard drive but I will at least rent it once.

As for what I do consider true piracy. Going to a rental store just copy movies and games is piracy to me. Selling for personal profit isn't just piracy it's flat out theft and should be punished. I also frown on people who pirate everything and never contribute a cent to the people who make it.

Of course that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[Hawanja]

You know, I tend to side with Mr. Snow on most of the issue.

I don't really see P2P networking as "piracy" per se, becasue no one is making a profit off of it (except for maybe Kazza.) Back before Morpheous or napster people just copied songs onto blank tapes and shared them that way, the only difference now is that through P2P it's world wide. The record companies made a big stink about blank tapes too but that didn't drive them out of business.

However I am well aware that the music industry has changed for the worse becasue of P2P networking. Anyone who's in a band trying to break big knows all about this. If you thought it was hard to get signed before.... But still, sharing MP3's and such doesn't seem like it's going to drive Warner Bros. or Virgin out of business anytime soon, and the first record company that starts making money off it will be the one that takes over. This is the new technological paradigm that the music of the future will be distributed by, and those who fall behind will be eleiminated. That's how free markets work.

Still, I am an Emule whore. I usually have a dosen downloads going at once (keeping it small to avoid attracting attention to myself.) But I still buy CDs and DVDs all the time. I tend to only download rare stuff that isn't commercially availible, like live concerts or subtitled Asian films/anime.

As for games: I will not buy a pirated game for a current system. If I see some fool selling bootlegged X-Box disks I report the bastard. That guy is taking money directly from the people who work hard to provide my hobby. For the same reason I do not download any commercially availible ROMs for current systems, or buy bootlegged DVDs off the street. These are the guys the movie/record companies should be going after, not suing P2P users at random.

But ROMS for discontinued systems are fine. I don't see any problem with that. It's not like the company is making money off it anyway. But still I prefer to have the real thing in my hands playing on the real console like it was intended. I think it cuts out some of the experience when playing an NES game on an emulator.

[Evangelion-01]

jrock ownz :smt017

[karsten]

I admit that i have nothing against piracy.

i have various copyes, tought these copyies are only the game i would never have buyed. the game i like are all originals.

and sharing is nice :smt043

and i hate music companies.. i'll never buy a CD for 25 Euros :snipe:

[AntiPasta]

indeed, CD's are just way too fricken expensive where I live. When I was 'Stateside I noticed most audio CDs were $15, even some limited editions! In Holland though new releases are 20e (sometimes even 22e, and the limited editions being more expensive if you can find them) and then they make a big fuss about it when the price drops to 18e :axe:

I *do* buy CD's from my fav bands though, now if only I had bought that LE Accelerated Evolution album by Devin Townsend when I saw it for $15 in Philadelphia :Hangman:

[halo]

Can I just say this:

You want to talk about copies? Go to a forum where people don't spend a lot of money COLLECTING GAMES. Not difficult. Please don't discuss any pirate games inssues here otherwise the forum will get ruined.

Sure. emulation/copied games can occasionally come in useful. But I don't want to talk about it here. I wanna talk about the hundreds of original games I own, weird obscure stuff etc. There is also no kudos associated with downloading a game and burning it. There are plenty of forums and IRC channels about pirated/emulated... go there.

Jusitification is stupid:
"But games are too expensive where I live" :smt015 I don't have a job, I'm a student. I own several hundred games.
"I can't find the game!" :smt015 Maybe this is some justification if it's a beta or someting particularly rare, but thanks to the internet the majority of games can be picked up easily and cheaply.
"It's the same as buying a preowned game" :smt015 No... no it isn't. Y'see, the games industry as a whole includes the games stores where most preowned games are sold. No-one makes any money out of copies... except the CD-R and DVD-R burner/media producers. Preowned games are reselling original copies, too, which must have had a purchaser in the first place.

Now can we all shut up about goddamn piracy and talk about something worthwhile? Keep this argument elsewhere.

[TheDeathcoaster]

I like Pirates, they have cool beards and search for treasure :smt023 But seriously now, I do own some copied games (mostly NTSC Playstation titles I got before they came out over here in Scotland) and have always tried to buy the official copies ^_^ I disagree with piracy of videogames UNLESS it is seriously just to test before buying OR t is due to securing an original copy costs too much (e.g. I would buy a pirate Panzer Dragoon Saga due to the price of that game being too high). But people who pirate common games :smt011

[Metal_4evr]

This is a perfectly legitimate discussion. Piracy is part of the games industry whether you like it or not. I don't get ROMS of current consoles but stuff out of production is fair game. The developers have already made money off of that game for that particular system so they are not losing money from it if it is out of production. Whether there is a newer version on a current system does not matter. The experience is different on every console so saying I shouldn't download REZ for DC (for example) because I can buy it for PS2 holds no merit. Most I intend to buy anyways but where can you rent DC or SNES or Genesis games for instance.

[halo]

The experience is different on every console so saying I shouldn't download REZ for DC (for example) because I can buy it for PS2 holds no merit. .

You shouldn't download Rez for DC anyway because when they ripped the game they lowered the sound quality for it to fit on a CD, rather than a 1.5gig GD-ROM. Enjoy low sound quality now!

Piracy is piracy whether the system is dead, the games impossible to get, or whatever. It's always ethically bad... there is no justification. Live with this.

[Yakumo]

I'm now downloading an ISO of Shikigami No Shiro 2 for the Dreamcast so that I don't have to keep opening my original. Now, is this classed as pairacy? I DO own the original as many here know so aren't I entitled to make a back up for private use? If not then I guess I'm a pirate but I see no harm in what I'm doing. I've bought the game so Sega have my cash. I wouldn't buy a second so I don't ruin my first copy so a back up is the way to go. What views do some of you guys have on this?

Oh, before anyone asks, NO I won't tell you where you can download it from. Go and buy Shikigami No Shiro 2 you leechinn gits :smt019

Yakumo

[LeGIt]

Nothing wrong with downloading a dc game which you allready own and wish to boot on your dc imo - however if you was to download a saturn game (you have the game for playstation but NOT saturn) then imo that's a very big NONO!

I have no problem with people downloading 'backups' provided they exclusively download the exact game for the exact system version they own - it's the assholes with lame excuses lie they want to try before they buy, preview or simply just be lame and play for free without any ownership or intention for ownership of originals which are the scourge of the planet - they should be extradited then executed :snipe:

Im also against mod chipping - a modded console is proven from years of experience to be less reliable and could possibly reduce system life aswell as void the warranty, but on top of all that a modded console isnt even worth 2nd hand crapped-on bog roll. if you want to play jap games buy a jap machine. if you want to emulate, then you should be emulating only original games you own for the format of emulator - i doubt many people even own a bunch of arcade cabinets in there bedroom (most ppl dont even own a jamma board + roms) so stuff like mame is a big no no imo :P

[Chief Chujo]

I think that is bullshit(buying only originals for obsolete systems).
Why the hell should I have to pay the insane prices on eBay for RS and Panzer Saga. The only person benifiting off it is the fuckwit selling said games for $200+.
If all I want to do is play the great games that I never got a chance to buy(because of Australia being treated like shit) why should I pay some eBayer a stupid amount of money.

Regarding current systems. If a game isn't released in Australia I pirate it. If there going to treat Australia like it's a backwater country I'm not going to pay an importer double the price to get the game.

[SuperFunkNinjaYoshiiKun]

I reckon that unreleased games are fair game. Otherwise we'd never get to experience Halflife, PBA Bowling, Prop Arena and hopefully more (GP500?) on the :prayer: Dreamcast. If i'd spent 2 yrs making a game, I'd be pretty pissedoff if it got cancelled. In fact, I'd probably 'acquire' a final beta and rip n' release it myself......

As for modchips, 99% of owners use them for piracy. The only legitimate modchips, until recently, were Xbox mods to allow Linux loading. But now you can flash the BIOS with Cromwell and the 007trick. I find the hacked 4981/M7 BIOSs very usefull for runnning XBMC.

At the end of the day, ppl hack, because they can. Ppl rip, because they can. And leechers leech, because they can. Not every one knows where to get 'backups' from off the internet, which is why in every office/factory/town there's a 'Dave the DVD man'. Someone who knows his stuff, and then sells CD/sDVDs/PS2/Xbox everything to his friends/family/workmates. I know a chap who payed off his mortgage yrs ago by pirating Playstation games. These are the ppl taking the piss, and need to have their monkeyasses kicked. :smt027

[Johnny]

I'm not gonna say i support piracy, but i can't blame people that prefer it to the original

A PS2 game in brazil cost from 150 to 250 Reais (50 to 84 bucks aproximatelly).

Mostly because Sony, Microsoft and now Nintendo don't release their products here, not even with the help of a distributor. So they can't complain of piracy in Brazil, when their products don't even were released here. All consoles and games in brazil, except for PC games, are imported.

If they only imported the consoles and manufactured the DVD's here the price would go way down, making people think twice before buying the pirate. I'm not gonna say it would end the piracy (this will never end) but it would be lower and those companies would sell more, making more profit.

[Yceman]

I must say that I don't feel guilty downloading an iso of Radiant Silvergun to play on my Saturn, instead of paying US$150 for a used copy of it
Of course I'd love to have originals for RSG and PDS, but I simply can't afford them.

[s0urce]

Support the companies who make good games and if you life in a kinda poor country and can't afford lot's of original games you wouldn't have bought them anyway cause you got no money.But mass downloading will destroy your gaming fun rapidly and you won't know how to appreciate a good game anymore.If you got the money and really want the game go and buy it,game developers don't life of love and air ;-)

The prices a saw in the last weeks for some games here are insanely low (I life in Germany).Like good GBA games new for 10EUR or GC games for 15EUR.

[AntiPasta]

then Germany is certainly cheaper than Holland... granted, I did see a few GC/Xbox/PS2 games for 10-20e today but I got an inkling that they're stolen... it's called 'black market' for a reason :butthead:

You shouldn't download Rez for DC anyway because when they ripped the game they lowered the sound quality for it to fit on a CD, rather than a 1.5gig GD-ROM. Enjoy low sound quality now!

Guess what, the PS2 version of Rez is a CD game... so maybe the DC version wasnt that big either.

[Greatsaintlouis]

it's the assholes with lame excuses lie they want to try before they buy, preview

Guess that makes me an asshole then.. :smt043

I have, assuming people don't think I'm just lying, a rather uncommon (I think) stance on piracy and such things. I am a huge fan of original packaging and cd artwork, and there are only a few reasons why I will download games, movies, and music.

Games: So I can try them out. Now before anyone starts crying foul, let me explain. Most of the games I want to try are either Japanese, or for systems that you can't rent games for, like the Dreamcast or Saturn. So, I could shell out the $30-60 or more on eBay or whatever to try out a game on the chance that I like it, or I could invest $.25 for a CD-R and try the thing out. I would much rather own an original then a crappy-looking CD-R with downsampled sound and no artwork save for the title written in black marker. As I am able to get original games, I toss out my CD-R - I'd rather play the originals anyways. There is one exception - screw the assholes that are trying to pass off Panzer Dragoon Saga or Radiant Silvergun for $150+. That is a rediculous price for games that aren't really that rare, and my owning burned copies of those games is only hurting the wankers trying to pass them off for that price, not Treasure, who only probably charged $60 at the most for it.

Emulation: The main amount of games I emulate are arcade games. Aside from Pac-Man, 19XX, and Bust-A-Move (Puzzle Bobble), none of the arcade roms I have have a machine anywhere near me that I have been able to find. I still go to the arcades regularly and play games, so it isn't like I'm playing the games on my computer instead of paying for them. The only ones I emulate are ones that I cannot find around here. I don't really think I'm stealing from any potential arcade profits that way. The console systems I emulate are only the Genesis and Super NES, and these are, again, only until I'm able to come across hard copy versions of the games.

Movies/TV shows: Grainy quality, sound syncing problems.... I'd much rather spend the few bucks to see the movie in theatres or rent it. The only exceptions really are anime. I usually download the stuff that is on TV in Japan, so again it's no worse than someone copying the program to their VCR. If I have a favorite series, I will attempt to buy the DVDs, but I usually end up getting a pirate DVD from Hong Kong. Yeah, it's cheap and underhanded, but there is a very good reason. Here in the US, anime DVDs are priced between $25 and $35 - a fairly steep price. The thing is, they only include 4 or so episodes per disc, requireing you to spend around $200 for a full series of DVDs here. My example is FLCL (Fooly Cooly). The entire thing is 6 episodes long, and all 6 can fit on one DVD, as I ordered one from Hong Kong before it was released here. FLCL here has 3 DVDs for $30 a piece with 2 episodes on them. That is bullshite, and I am not going to support overpricing like that.

Music: It's been a while since I've happened upon a quality album in which I liked every song. Music is getting to the point now where you are paying for 2 or 3 good songs and 8 or so crappy ones. All the albums I've liked, I've bought, and if I just like individual songs, I download them or buy them off of iTunes. Music is, again, like anime, in that the original artists recieve so little from the sales of an album, that most of the cds you buy are going to support record label workers and RIAA staff. Despite the fact that the RIAA here in the US is suing the hell out of its customers for not buying their overpriced shite, this is my little way of saying that I'm not going to spend a ridiculous $15-$18 on a cd witha few good songs that only benefits a few already rich people.

Wow, that was long.