Styrofoam and pthalates

[ASSEMbler]

It's well know that pthalates (softeners adds flexibility to plastics)
reacts badly with styrene.

Pthalates laced plastics also interact badly, namely famicoms. The soft cords would need to
be protected from contact with the hard main console. The laced wires soften and damage the hard plastic (melting appearance)

Systems that suffer from this are NES, etc. Systems packed in styrene.

I propose standards for preserving systems from damage.

Proposals:

Thin acid free paper bags (but soak through may happen). Layering may solve this.

Inert plastic bags unaffected by styrene or pthalates (research needed).

Cloth bags, like cotton cheesecloth.

* One could have baggies made with drawstrings.

Systems, controllers and other parts could be placed inside, yet be free enough to fit into the
original spots in the styrene. Long, double ended bags could be tied around the controllers and
the wires on the famicom where they emerge from the system.

Inert, acid free brown paper slips could be used to preserve sealed manuals.

[karsten]

maybe i'm misunderstanding what you are talking about (my english will never be perfect i guess... :( ), but the "white plastic that breaks in small balls" that in inside the packaging of NES, SNES and almost all the console is POLYSTIRENE.

Are you asking how to preserve the plastic parts in contact with it? if so a _cheap_ and effective way that would last for YEARS is to wrap the items in high desity or at least medium density POLYETHILENE bags and termo solder them so that air won't circulate.

pictures would help me understand the problem and helping out.

karsten

edited: forgot to mention that high and medium density polyethilene (not the low ones!) are a tough material perfectly resisting water and most solvents dissolved in air.

[PhreQuencYViii]

Wait, what?

[ASSEMbler]

Wait, what?

polystyrene, styrene will react badly with the softeners put into plastics to make them supple.

hard plastics react to excess and leaching softener in cords, etc.

If you take a cord out of a system box, and it has that film of styrofoam, that is the chemical reaction.

Japan-games famicom is a good example.

[karsten]

high and medium density polyethilene do not contain phtalates or styrene (at least they are not supposed to) so they might be a suitable solution?

[Breetai]

polystyrene, styrene will react badly with the softeners put into plastics to make them supple.

hard plastics react to excess and leaching softener in cords, etc.

If you take a cord out of a system box, and it has that film of styrofoam, that is the chemical reaction.

Japan-games famicom is a good example.

Wow, my Neo Geo AES joystick cord looked just like that when I bought it in box. I wonder how long it'd been in the box for?

[ASSEMbler]

high and medium density polyethilene do not contain phtalates or styrene (at least they are not supposed to) so they might be a suitable solution?

Problem is excess pthalates would affect the polyethilene and "melt it"
hence the paper solution.

[karsten]

maybe i'm recalling badly from my studies, but i think that poliethilene should'nt react with phtalates...

and in case i'm out of my mind and it actually reacts, (i have no wish to start calculating the excess in phtalates and how much they could melt of the PE (because i'm lazy)) but i personally doubt there's so much to be a real issue...

i would be concerned about wetness using paper tought... i'll think again about the matter and see if i can find something better.

in any case i'll keep studying the matter.

[ASSEMbler]

I think you're right about poly. Probably thinking of polyvinyl...

[karsten]

i would avoid most polyvinyls; some of them contain double bonds in their structures or benzoic cycles, that make perfect weak points for sunlight, acids, smoke etc etc...

polyethilene have a full saturated chain that is quite resistant... maybe we might consider polypropilene too...

we have to choose carefully the right plastic (being it vinylic or not) polystirene can be considere a polyvynil for example... and you can easily understand that is the source of our problems ;)

[ASSEMbler]

I still think perhaps a acid free paper/plastic/paper might be good. Best of both worlds I suppose.

[karsten]

not sure what you mean by "acid", but polyethilene and many other polymers are 100% neutre... please elaborate if you can.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Isn't it a bit too late to be worrying about how twenty year old consoles were packaged...? Lol. I thought most modern consoles were packed in cardboard layered packaging anyhow? Dreamcast came in bedpan-style moulded cardboard packaging, and my LE red PS2 comes with some kind of cotton-like baggie to protect the delicate paint job

In this day and age I can't see why consoles are made out of plastic at all, apart from the fact that it's cheap to produce and light - Carbon Fibre would be a nice alternative, but this can be expensive. Ideally I would prefer consoles (Especially the DS) to be made out of somekind of metal, such as Magnesium or Titanium, similar to how many electronics are (Such as Mini Discs / Walkmans / Mobile phones etc), although the downside of this would be cost, weight, and durability - Plus a metal console isn't really insulated, but then neither is my toaster...

[karsten]

we are talking mainly about how to store "ancient" electronic to preserve it in the following years...

concerning tyour ideas.... they are COSTY and heavy and also metal is costier to paint, moldt etc etc

[ASSEMbler]

Museums use wood with hemp stuffing. I'll see if I can get any museum people to chime in.

[retro]

To clear up the confusion....

Polystyrene is a thermoplastic. It can come in hard forms, such as model aircraft, or as expanded polystyrene foam (EPS). This foam is commonly called polystyrene in Europe. Sadly, the Americans do what they do best in these circumstances - call it after a brand name - Styrofoam.

Kev, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that a console such as a NES that comes in an EPS box should not come in contact with the EPS due to the plasticizer. So this plasticizer is in the console plastic?

Thing is, the NES came very well packed - the NES was in a plastic bag, the PSU was in a plastic bag, and the cables were too, IIRC. If you don't have the baggies, it isn't a complete collector's system, so the discerning collector shouldn't have this worry!

[ASSEMbler]

To clear up the confusion....

Polystyrene is a thermoplastic. It can come in hard forms, such as model aircraft, or as expanded polystyrene foam (EPS). This foam is commonly called polystyrene in Europe. Sadly, the Americans do what they do best in these circumstances - call it after a brand name - Styrofoam.

Kev, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that a console such as a NES that comes in an EPS box should not come in contact with the EPS due to the plasticizer. So this plasticizer is in the console plastic?

Thing is, the NES came very well packed - the NES was in a plastic bag, the PSU was in a plastic bag, and the cables were too, IIRC. If you don't have the baggies, it isn't a complete collector's system, so the discerning collector shouldn't have this worry!

Not all collectors have the bags, blus they are easily counterfeited.
I was thinking more of famicom, famitwin