HDMI - DVI - Component - RGB = Confused!

[Trenton_net]

Hey Everyone,

If a PC or device says it has HDMI out, does that mean any TV that has HDMI input can accept the video that another HDMI device can produce?

I ask because I noted there are lots of cables for converting HDMI to Component for instance, or DVI to HDMI, but they all mention that the signal must be compliant or you need a transcoder. You know, Sync on Green and stuff like that.

Anyway, I was looking at some netbooks/mini PCs and some have HDMI, some only VGA, some DVI, and I wanted to know what to get or what to avoid in order to get a PC that can output directly to an HDTV.

Any ideas/information?

[Twimfy]

Not 100% sure what to suggest but a while back I had a PC set up whereby I used a DVI to HDMI adaptor and it worked perfectly with my TV. There was nothing special about the GFX card, just a budget Geforce 8 and the TV was a very early HDMI compliant model.

So I would guess from my experience that you can just chop and change the adaptors and they do the rest when it comes to HDMI and DVI, but from what I've read on a few Xbox 360's it's not so simple with component.

[phate]

If your TV has a HDMI input it can except a video signal from a HDMI source or a DVI-D source with an adapter. Usually the signal has to be all digital and possibly support HDCP. for the most part HDMI and DVI-D are interchangeable.

HDMI/DVI-D to an analog source such as DVI-A/Component requires a Digital to Analog Converter to work. The same goes for the reverse DVI-A/component to HDMI

There are some video sources (like some Dell laptops notably the current XPS laptops) that can output a analog signal like VGA/RGB via the HDMI port. In these instances the HDMI port is just emulating a DVI-I or DVI-A port and you need a HDMI to DVI-A/DVI-I cable.

Usually its best (and easiest) to look at it like this:

HDMI -> HDMI - Should work fine.
HDMI -> DVI-D - Should work fine, needs adapter and possibly HDCP support
DVI-D -> HDMI - Should work fine, needs adapter and possibly HDCP support
HDMI/DVI-D -> Analog(*) - Needs a converter
Analog(*) -> HDMI/DVI-D - Needs a converter
*Analog includes VGA, Component, Composite

[Trenton_net]

Hrm... How about VGA --> Component? I guess that's where the sync on green deal comes into play? I guess that requires a special (expensive) converter box as well?

[phate]

VGA -> Component is a bit trickier, and depends highly on your source and receiver. For the most part, if the source and receiver support Sync On Green you'll be fine. Otherwise your going to need a converter box.

[Calpis]

There's more to component than sync on green, green in component isn't green, it's luminance ie a black and white composite signal. I really don't think most component inputs will alternatively allow you to put RGB (VGA/sync on green) on them.

[retro]

Most TVs have VGA inputs nowadays, though.

Of course, you still have to ensure that the computer can output in the right resolution. Sure, the TV should accept 1024x768, but it'll no doubt look shite. With laptops, for example, they often aren't set up by default to output in odd widescreen resolutions. My friend found this last year when he bought a brand new Toshiba laptop with VGA out but it wouldn't do the resolution his television required. It led to problems with how the image was displayed on the screen. You'll usually find that a BIOS update should cure that.

[skavenger216]

Of course, you could download powerstrip and set up a custom resolution that matches your TV's native res. Thats what I had to do at least:icon_bigg

[Barc0de]

On that note.. Component is even wrongly labeled as RGB in Gran Turismo 5 Prologue's manual and shows supporting resolutions up to 1080p. The issue is that Component does 1080p but it's certainly not called RGB which brings up the question:

Calpis, is the RGB standard ever used in commercial products to display a) progressive signal (240p obviously is there, I was thinking 480/576p upwards) and b) 720p/1080i and/or 1080p ?

[Calpis]

On that note.. Component is even wrongly labeled as RGB in Gran Turismo 5 Prologue's manual and shows supporting resolutions up to 1080p. The issue is that Component does 1080p but it's certainly not called RGB which brings up the question:

Calpis, is the RGB standard ever used in commercial products to display a) progressive signal (240p obviously is there, I was thinking 480/576p upwards) and b) 720p/1080i and/or 1080p ?

Perhaps the game sets up the resolution, but the BIOS controls the internal transcoder, or maybe it's just a mistake. Component is capable of 1080p but I don't believe it's enabled on most devices; the display industry seems to have forbid 1080p outside HDCP formats to keep HD copying out of the average consumer's hands.

I'm not sure what you mean, VGA is a RGB standard to display 480p, WXGA encompasses 720p and WUXGA encompasses 1080p.

[Barc0de]

I ran my 360 over component at 1080p, no issues there. same should go for the PS3.

By RGB i don't mean the colorspace/modulation standard, I mean that they actually have a picture of the component cables (Which are obviously Red Green and Blue) but I never knew that TV sets had the ability to do any progressive signal, let alone 1080p, over TV-standard RGB.

I am aware that VGA is RGB (or was it RGBHV?)

SCART is not part of the discussion since it's not depicted. I think it's just a typo on Polyphony's part but I can't be sure until someone tells me "yeah, the PS3 can do 1080p on a TV with RGB - instead of component". The word component is nowhere to be found and 480p isn't even mentioned as a resolution since it's PAL territory.
The available resolutions are 576i and 576p (the latter being a non-standard progressive resolution since Europe never officially did progressive signal to my knowledge on TVs at Standard Definition)

- the PAL PS2 also does 576p instead of 480p but you have to clearly set the BIOS to "YPb Pr" (clearly Component), else my TV displays it in interlaced black and white when connected with the SAME cables. Additionally, the PS3 system settings are set to COMPONENT on my system, NOT RGB.

I have a SONY WEGA, multi-system TV, that has component inputs (also does RGB to my understanding when PAL signal is detected?) and has a maximum resolution of Standard Definition Progressive. While in GT5Prologue (and the PS3 in general) the TV shows "Component" as the source, not RGB.

I *guess* that it's the inherit nature of CRT TVs to be able to do any resolution, hence why it's able to handle 576p - that said, it is not able to handle 720p or 1080i/p. Is this theory plausible? or does the TV have to have a built-in ability to handle 576p in your view?
Any ideas Calpis?

[Calpis]

I am aware that VGA is RGB (or was it RGBHV?)

Fundamentally the same thing, only the method of sync transmission varies.

"yeah, the PS3 can do 1080p on a TV with RGB - instead of component".

I don't think the PS3 would allow you to, though technically if it allows 1080p component, it theoretically only needs to write a single bit to the transcoder telling it to pass through RGB (sync-on-green) and not transcode it to YPbPr.

The word component is nowhere to be found and 480p isn't even mentioned as a resolution since it's PAL territory.

I've heard that some TVs do mislabel "component" RGB, and a lot of people (perhaps even developers) call it that instead of YPbPr.

The available resolutions are 576i and 576p (the latter being a non-standard progressive resolution since Europe never officially did progressive signal to my knowledge on TVs at Standard Definition)

Nobody did progressive on SDTV, 480p is EDTV like yours.

- the PAL PS2 also does 576p instead of 480p but you have to clearly set the BIOS to "YPb Pr" (clearly Component), else my TV displays it in interlaced black and white when connected with the SAME cables.

I'm not sure if it's the TV's fault or the PS', B&W means the Pb and Pr signals aren't being used.

I *guess* that it's the inherit nature of CRT TVs to be able to do any resolution, hence why it's able to handle 576p - that said, it is not able to handle 720p or 1080i/p. Is this theory plausible? or does the TV have to have a built-in ability to handle 576p in your view?
Any ideas Calpis?

CRT can sort of handle any resolution, there are many factors to it, quite a few I still don't completely understand.

[Barc0de]

thanks for the reply,

my typo there, I meant that I ve never seen EDTV being enabled in anything other than a few DVD-player instances (Ps2, XBOX etc) back in the CRT days in Europe, and even then I m pretty certain it was Chroma/Lumina Component, not RGB.