Question about the N64 Emulator for Zelda: Collector Edition/Virtual Console Emulator

[Jasonkhowell]

So I finally got component cables for the Wii today, and decided to try out several GCN games to see how they look. Eventually, I got up to Zelda: Collectors Edition and tried it out. Thing is, even with the widescreen option turned on with the Wii (Also progressive scan turned on), pretty much all the GCN and non-3D virtual console games run in a pseudo-widescreen with two little black bars on the side of my TV screen.

However, with Ocarina and Majora, they run in a "full" widescreen mode (Filling up the whole screen, although not quite widescreen mode like in more recent titles). Same goes for the Virtual Console version of Super Mario 64.

My question is this: Is this some sort of feature with the N64 emulator that they use, or just something the 3D titles can support that the 2D ones cannot (Due to pixelation?). I find it odd that emulated N64 games can support this while normal GCN games cannot.

[Barc0de]

take it this way.

when you re rendering 3d graphics, you don't need to streatch your sprites or anything else, since its polygones, u just literally widen your camera's view on the X axis.

on the other hand, most 2d graphics are designed to be used the way they are, stretchign them would make the sprites look ugly, and the frame is pretty much "Set" to show certain things at a certain time within the 4:3 ratio. For example an overhead Zelda game, would show neighbouring screens (Zelda 1) if one was to "pan out" and have wide-screen. Stretching it also looks ugly. So they leave it at 4:3

[Jasonkhowell]

take it this way.

when you re rendering 3d graphics, you don't need to streatch your sprites or anything else, since its polygones, u just literally widen your camera's view on the X axis.

on the other hand, most 2d graphics are designed to be used the way they are, stretchign them would make the sprites look ugly, and the frame is pretty much "Set" to show certain things at a certain time within the 4:3 ratio. For example an overhead Zelda game, would show neighbouring screens (Zelda 1) if one was to "pan out" and have wide-screen. Stretching it also looks ugly. So they leave it at 4:3

Hmm, I figured that much for the 2D games, but why does the GCN games do the same thing? They show the same black bars on the television that the 2D virtual console games do. Granted, this is something the 360 and PS3 do with backwards compatability as well. Mostly just curious on why the N64 games can do full widescreen when all other GCN games show the black bar

[Barc0de]

because GC games are ran natively, whereas the rest of the VC line-up runs in emulation. When emulating, you can choose different resolutions (in general) and aspect ratios, since you're handling rendering as you see fit.

When Wii runs GC games in its native mode, it doesn't go through the trouble of setting extra parameters for rendering.

[PhreQuencYViii]

Wow! No bars? Sounds nice!

[mdmx]

are you sure that the image of the N64 games isn't stretched?

as far as I know it's possible to change the resolution with emulation but not the aspect ratio. If you want to change the aspect ratio to 16:9, you need to re-programme the whole game.

btw, some N64 games do support widescreen, e.g. goldeneye or jet force gemini.

[sayin999]

Actually egm interviewed one of the producers of the GC remake of Resident evil and said it actually wasnt hard to add progressive scan to a game, its just they didn't bother to include it.

Now the 16:9 argument is interesting, cause Miyamoto has said in interviews that the reason why zelda ttwp didn't include it in the game cube version was due to it not having the power to do so.

My guess with some games not supporting it on GC would be how much of the screen the system can actually display at once. And mdmx is right, there are a good amount of 64 games that do support 16:9. Mission impossible even supports this.

I find it odd the 2d virtual console games don't fill up the screen. The HD TV I have in the living room displays even the 2d virtual console games in full wide screen, though it looks stretched and very pixilated. Could it be the way your TV reads the signal from the wii?

[Jasonkhowell]

Actually egm interviewed one of the producers of the GC remake of Resident evil and said it actually wasnt hard to add progressive scan to a game, its just they didn't bother to include it.

Now the 16:9 argument is interesting, cause Miyamoto has said in interviews that the reason why zelda ttwp didn't include it in the game cube version was due to it not having the power to do so.

My guess with some games not supporting it on GC would be how much of the screen the system can actually display at once. And mdmx is right, there are a good amount of 64 games that do support 16:9. Mission impossible even supports this.

I find it odd the 2d virtual console games don't fill up the screen. The HD TV I have in the living room displays event the 2d virtual console games in full wide screen, though it looks stretched and very pixilated. Could it be the way your TV reads the signal from the wii?

May have to do with size and type. How big is yours? Also, mine is more of a HDTV/Computer Monitor combo then anything else.

[sayin999]

It's a hitatchi ultravision 52inch. It supports up to 1080i and the only way to display a comp on it is through dvi. What brand exactly is your display?

[Jasonkhowell]

It's a hitatchi ultravision 52inch. It supports up to 1080i and the only way to display a comp on it is through dvi. What brand exactly is your display?

Olevia. 37 inch that supports VGA and a bunch of other slots. Can go up to 1080i Resolution.

[subbie]

are you sure that the image of the N64 games isn't stretched?

as far as I know it's possible to change the resolution with emulation but not the aspect ratio. If you want to change the aspect ratio to 16:9, you need to re-programme the whole game.

btw, some N64 games do support widescreen, e.g. goldeneye or jet force gemini.

Actualy via emulation it is somewhat posible to hack a game to run in a new aspect ratio. It depends on how the GPU is emulated (if HLE or LLE). If LLE it will be much trickier but if HLE, then it is more posible but the problem lies in the game. If the game does extensive culling and software clipping then changing the ratio will result in seeing nothing or area with some polygons but not others. Yet if the game went the lazy route and did not need to clip, it's posible changing the aspect ratio will work.

[mdmx]

Actualy via emulation it is somewhat posible to hack a game to run in a new aspect ratio. It depends on how the GPU is emulated (if HLE or LLE). If LLE it will be much trickier but if HLE, then it is more posible but the problem lies in the game. If the game does extensive culling and software clipping then changing the ratio will result in seeing nothing or area with some polygons but not others. Yet if the game went the lazy route and did not need to clip, it's posible changing the aspect ratio will work.

interesting. haven't heared of such emulation tricks before. But I'm still sceptic. There are several other things, which could be problematic when you have a new aspect ratio (e.g. a cursor which cannot move outside its defined 4:3 aspect ratio).

[subbie]

interesting. haven't heared of such emulation tricks before. But I'm still sceptic. There are several other things, which could be problematic when you have a new aspect ratio (e.g. a cursor which cannot move outside its defined 4:3 aspect ratio).

Truthfuly that is fine. 2D huds can stay in a 4:3 ratio or be re placed in a new 16:9 position. 3D, providing it meets the criterias i mention, should be fine. :)

[Sonikku]

Yea, Mario 64 is definately being stretched to 16:9 aspect ratio on my 51" Sony Wega HD (Wii is connected via component and set to 480p/widescreen).

On a side note, unless i'm on crack Super Mario 64 looks to me like it's running at 60fps as opposed to the original 30fps ...