Saturn Shen-Mue & other unreleased Saturn talk

[Segafreak_NL]

Found it:

.
Looks genuine to me.

[Yakumo]

looks just like the black one. I've sold one that colour before. I had no idea it was extra special. I just thought it was a black one that faded a little. The one I sold had no box.

Yakumo

[hl718]

That also doesn't look very green. ;)

-hl718

[Barc0de]

smoke more like it. To own some colour of console is one thing though, and to say you own sonic Xtreme and a bunch of other vaulted titles is another.

[Druid II]

The "This is cool" Saturn is nothing special.

As for that beta list, its bullshit. OK, they guy may have a copy of Fighting Force (near-complete versions were handed out to magazines), but Shenmue AND Sonic Xtreme? Shenmue was created in complete secrecy, no PR builds no anything. Unless the guy broke into AM2, its unlikely any copy exists, not to mention that why would an incomplete game range at 6 cds?
And for Xtreme, well, that game was never more then a pile of sourcecode. The only PR demos ever made are very highly incomplete (one of the reasons why Sega pulled the plug on their concept).

edit: for Fighting Vipers, it was built off Sonic Fighters. Or the other way around, Sonic Fighters was built from Fighting Vipers. I forgot.

[Segafreak_NL]

Alright...aalllright. No need to jump onto this guy with everyone. Just wait and see, ok?

[sayin999]

The "This is cool" Saturn is nothing special.

As for that beta list, its bullshit. OK, they guy may have a copy of Fighting Force (near-complete versions were handed out to magazines), but Shenmue AND Sonic Xtreme? Shenmue was created in complete secrecy, no PR builds no anything. Unless the guy broke into AM2, its unlikely any copy exists, not to mention that why would an incomplete game range at 6 cds?
And for Xtreme, well, that game was never more then a pile of sourcecode. The only PR demos ever made are very highly incomplete (one of the reasons why Sega pulled the plug on their concept).

edit: for Fighting Vipers, it was built off Sonic Fighters. Or the other way around, Sonic Fighters was built from Fighting Vipers. I forgot.

As revealed in one an interview with one of sega am2 members fighting vipers 2 was the bases for the sonic fighters engine. Those hidden characters that were inserted in the arcade rom but not used were test characters or sometimes put in there as sorta jokes made by the team.

[hl718]

The "This is cool" Saturn is nothing special.

As for that beta list, its bullshit. OK, they guy may have a copy of Fighting Force (near-complete versions were handed out to magazines), but Shenmue AND Sonic Xtreme? Shenmue was created in complete secrecy, no PR builds no anything. Unless the guy broke into AM2, its unlikely any copy exists, not to mention that why would an incomplete game range at 6 cds?
And for Xtreme, well, that game was never more then a pile of sourcecode. The only PR demos ever made are very highly incomplete (one of the reasons why Sega pulled the plug on their concept).

edit: for Fighting Vipers, it was built off Sonic Fighters. Or the other way around, Sonic Fighters was built from Fighting Vipers. I forgot.

And there *are* builds of Sonic X-treme out there. As mentioned they are limited, but to assume they never left Sega is false.

-hl718

[Anthaemia.]

There's no doubting that Sonic X-Treme exists in disc form, but haven't we already concluded this game didn't get much further into development than a proverbial boat-load of ideas and some playable engine tests? However, the same definitely cannot be said of Shenmue in its 32-bit guise. Despite the mythical figure of eight discs (and not six as mentioned in that list!) being supposedly required to store the final game, what a lot of you are forgetting is that Shenmue was never finished as a Saturn project. Also, just because members of AM2 have confirmed that video was of the game running on a stock Saturn doesn't automatically mean they were referring to the console - surely a standalone development kit could also share the same definition? If anything, Shenmue is probably one of the most unlikely games in that person's alleged collection as it may never have gone further than a development kit or perhaps even magnetic storage tape. Considering how top-secret this game's production was, I doubt it ever made it onto a disc - never mind anything close to being remotely playable! Being a third-party team, it's not impossible that builds of Fighting Force could somehow leak, as I know for certain that several magazines received near-to-complete review code. On the other hand, this guy's more than likely just got the rolling demo like everyone else... especially when you take into the account the sheer unlikeliness of his other claims!

P.S. Come to think of it, I'm surprised he didn't add Sonic The Fighters, the prototype version of Biohazard 2 or both revisions of Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 to that list as well...

[Yakumo]

P.S. Come to think of it, I'm surprised he didn't add Sonic The Fighters, the prototype version of Biohazard 2 or both revisions of Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 to that list as well...

Well, he couldn't really because everyone knows there is only one copy of each of those in the world and that I own them;-) So if he did put them down he'd well be found out to be a little fibber :rolleyes:

Yakumo

[Barc0de]

Yeap, and everyone knows Yakumo got them from me on a Sunday pic-nic to Antarctica.

[Yakumo]

:lol: :lol: You said you'd never tell !! :lol: :lol:

Yakumo

[Anthaemia.]

Back on a more serious note for just two seconds, it's been suggested that copies of the Biohazard 2 prototype really do exist and are almost certainly out there in the hands of collectors who'd prefer to stay quiet just in case the lawyers over at Capcom are still pursuing this matter. However, as I said before, there's very little chance the same could ever be said of Shenmue Saturn Version. We already know that something entitled Sonic X-Treme has made its way into the public domain, though whether anything more substantial is ever going to surface remains to be seen for now - why fans aren't interested finding anything from the later (and presumably more complete) PC version is a mystery to me, even if Chris Senn has already confirmed that former development partner Ofer Alon doesn't want such a thing happening for personal reasons.

That leaves just Saturn Virtua Fighter 3, which I know for definite has been the cause for many journalists signing non-disclosure agreements in the past. One last hope is that AM2 could include footage similar to how they did with Shenmue in its 32-bit form, but I wouldn't hold out for either revision getting a release now. Unlikely as it may be, some kind of unofficial leak is our only hope... and we all know how strict Sega of Japan's security has proved so far in comparison to its western counterparts! Still, I remain hopeful that one day those still interested might strike it lucky - if I've learned anything, it's that miracles do happen every now and then.

To be fair, most people would be content with playing VF3tb on the Dreamcast or the Gems Collection port of the original Sonic The Fighters arcade game, but I'm sure that I can't be the only person who also would like to see just how well the Saturn could be pushed in the right hands. Nobody knew that console's real performance like Sega's own in-house teams (well, maybe not the US-based ones), and you only have to look at VF2 or even the Shenmue prototype video to see that AM2 was by far the best at proving its true capabilities! Actually, it seems that not even Sega could have imagined the greatness achived with these sadly unreleased titles - for that just refer to the system's official specifications and then what AM2 had managed later on! Who said videogame companies knew their own hardware? Perhaps we shouldn't be too critical of Sony for overhyping its systems and their potential, after all?

[Yakumo]

I'd rather play Virtua Fighter on the Saturn than the Dreamcast just to see how it was. Even it it turned out to be a sack of crap I'd still love to see it. As for Sonic Xterme, that's as interesting and standing in a cow pat. What I'd love to see and would pay big money for is Giest Force (DC), Virtua Fighter 3 (SAT) and Thunder Force 6 (DC) but that never got past the GC intro and soundtrack as far as I know.

Yakumo

[Barc0de]

Yakumo, I m not aware of the contents of Geist Force (in short i dont know what the game is about), could you please provide a link or info so I can desire one copy too?:p

[Anthaemia.]

Geist Force was supposed to have been Sega of America's first big Dreamcast title, which looked quite similar (in terms of its gameplay mechanics) to Panzer Dragoon. However, following a poor reception during pre-release shows in late 1998, it was decided not to complete the project. There are more complex reasons for its cancellation - such as the notorious internal politics that led to the downfall of so many other games in the past - and I'm sure others here could possibly elaborate further, though as a primer this is all you really need to know. I can recall hearing about prototype copies in the hands of certain collectors, and fortunately there is plenty of media out there for anybody interested when it comes to learning about Geist Force. You should check out Yakumo's site, as I believe he's got some of the only footage of this game in action. Also, I've done my share by uploading high-quality screenshots in the past. Now if only someone could do the same for other games that have been mentioned here recently...

P.S. I'm pleased to see that I'm not the only one desperate to see how Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 would have turned out - anyone with half a brain cell knows the Dreamcast could easily have reproduced the Model 3 version pixel-for-pixel, but anything worthwhile on the Saturn was a little more of a challenge for even AM2. Why can't they just accept what happened, swallow their collective pride and share with us what promised to be an incredible showcase of the otherwise undersupported console's true hardware capabilities?

[Yakumo]

:crying: Geist Force was actually almost complete. The main and probably the only reason it was cancelled was due to internal politics. The reason that it was poorly received is a load of crap. If it was true then how the hell did all the other shit get released? Sega and their bloody politics have caused gamers to loose some true classics. Actually some one here at ASSEMbler owns or knows someone with a copy of Giest Force :cry: I want that so badly !!. Ever since the first ever shots in 1998 I wanted it. Another odd thing is that all the released versions of it are in Japanese as are all the promotional materials. If it was a Sega US produced game then wouldn't there be an English version in production first or at least at the same time?

Yakumo

[Barc0de]

I can feel for you Yakumo, it is cases such as this that a a community dump can give so many people a taste of what could be. Originals always hold their true value to collectors;)

[Yakumo]

I know if I had an unreleased proto I'd be posting shit loads of info about it !! All without my name attatched that is :smile:

Yakumo

[Anthaemia.]

I know if I had an unreleased proto I'd be posting shit loads of info about it !! All without my name attatched that is :smile:

Sadly, not everyone seems prepared to show that much generosity or we'd now be enjoying more from the prototype of Biohazard 2 and Sonic X-Treme to give just two examples. Also, poor crowd reception to Geist Force at the 1998 Tokyo Game Show definitely was one reason for its cancellation as this formed part of the official explanation given in an article I can remember from way back. Of course, internal politics were mostly to blame - just look at how the Dreamcast version of Sega Rally 2 was handed back to its arcade developers around this same time frame because they felt the original team wasn't up to the job. Sega of Japan has always favoured its own groups, and I wouldn't even be surprised if SOJ wanted Geist Force killed off to give their own Panzer Dragoon sequel (later reworked into what became Orta for the Xbox) a chance.

On the subject of games that are similar to Panzer Dragoon and Geist Force, whatever happened to the "Future City" project that was created by Tom Szirtes (sp?) for Sega of Europe's own Dreamcast tech demos? Was this ever intended to be a commercial game, or simply just a showcase of what the then-new console was capable of? How come more people aren't interested in finding copies of this or AM2's other great late-Saturn-early-Dreamcast era production, the so-called "Tower Of Babel" tech demo? Considering that was made in just two weeks using incomplete development kits by members of the now-disbanded Team Andromeda under Yu Suzuki's supervision, this presumably deserves to be of greater importance to any hardened Sega fanatics among us...