Fahrenheit 9/11 comes out today

[ASSEMbler]

Check it out. Pinch of salt as always, but it's always great to have an opposing view during our very dark imperial times. (Darth rumsfeld).

[madhatter256]

Just letting you all know that ALWAYS take things with a grain of salt.

One part of his movie however was over fabricated. The part I'm talking about is the one where he talks about Osama's family and how they were in the USA during the 9/11 attacks and how the family wanted to get out of there quickly for fear that the USA might hold them for questioning about their son, who they disowned 10years ago. Moore says that Bush himself gave the orders for higher security and a military escort so that the family can fly out of USA safely, during this time all the airports were grounded. What he doesn't tell you is that Dick Clark (the guy who testified against Bush on security to fulfill his own agenda) was the one who gave those orders.

[ASSEMbler]

I doubt very much that the president was unaware.

He spent time in saudi arabia and is even considered part of the royal family.

I don't think the other relatives had anything to do, but it's just common sense not to let relatives of a terror suspect leave the country.

[sayin999]

gonna be seing it in about 2-3 hours, i'll post my thoughts after seing the movie.

[sean]

I was reading the paper today and it said bush's support has waned even further. I still have only come in contact with a very small number of his supporters, and I work in an incredibly diverse atmosphere. Where are all of these "bush supporters?"

[Calpis]

Southern California, The Booneys Texas, Redneck Idaho? I dunno. Polls still indicate that he's a few % over Kerry.

[cahaz]

by the way , im not from the usa but..... do you think that :snipe: bush :snipe: will be re-elected?

[madhatter256]

by the way , im not from the usa but..... do you think that :snipe: bush :snipe: will be re-elected?


99.99999% chance that he will. Don't follow the polls you see on TV about "who will win if voting was held today". Everybody will be suprised come November 7th.

[ASSEMbler]

I hope not. Please Jesus, let mir fall on him.

[sayin999]

Just saw it awhile ago and damn what a good movie. I can't belive he was able to top bowling for columbine. You wouldn't believe how packed it was when i went to go, all sold out. Another huge line formed when i left. Bet disney is pissed at Eisner for not letting miramax release it.

[Greatsaintlouis]

I hope not. Please Jesus, let mir fall on him.
FATALITY!!

While I don't wish as gruesome an end, I sure as hell hope he doesn't get reelected, otherwise I'm emigrating to Hong Kong or somewhere remote in Africa. We are in serious trouble if he gets a second term, and while the consolation is that it would be his last, that will be four long years.

And while I'm obviously not a fan of Bush, I refuse to see any of Michael Moore's films, and I consider any political arguments backed by "in Michael Moore's book/movies/etc, he said..." completely invalid. Everything he's doing strikes me as extreme leftist propaganda bordering on slander. Like I said, I'm no fan of the current administration, I just think that the voice of opposition could come across in a more intelligent fashion, rather than sounding like a liberal student activist of the type found in colleges all across America (albeit one with huge financial resources.) Just my opinion.

[madhatter256]

I know how you guys feel about Bush and all. I know he's giving the US a bad reputation. Sadam wasn't an immediate threat but he was a lesser evil and easier to get to than Osama and the others. Sadam was just trophy statue for re-election fuel. BTW, Disney is pro-Bush, thats why ;-) . Disney employee foundation is largely republican, trust me I worked at Disney world and was part of a Union. MIR burnt all the way as it went through the atmosphere anyway.

[Greatsaintlouis]

Well we've still got the international space station, plus God-knows-how-many tons of shit up there like satellites, space garbage, and bits from other space missions. So there's plenty of ammo at least.

[ASSEMbler]

With the hidden prisoners and torture we have violated the GENEVA CONVENTIONS . Sweet Jesus that doesn't happen with america. It JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN.

If he gets re-elected I'll become a permanent protester until he's gone.

He's done some good, but any fool can surround himself with advisors and do well. He doesn't think for himself and that scares me.

Puppet government in Iraq? We have one right here in the usa...

[madhatter256]

Heh. The ultimate weapon is to unleash small meteors big enough to devestate a country... Thats the future...where we can "throw" meteors to our enemies and make it look like a natural disaster..

[Greatsaintlouis]

Yeah, great idea, until some hero with a triangular spaceship and a trackball comes and fucks all your shit up...

[Calpis]

I'm young, I recently registered for the selective service, I'm not in school yet, I don't want the draft back or my ass will be first to be hauled off to Iraq!

[Greatsaintlouis]

Selective service and the draft in this day and time is such bullshit. I wasn't going to register when I became eligible 3 years ago until my mom pointed out to me the fine print on the envelope that said something to the effect of not registering can net you jail time, a hefty fine, or both. Needless to say that kindof decided for me. The draft was a beautiful thing in World Wars I and II, you know, back when there was something worth fighting for. But damned if I'm gonna be risking my life for any cause other than to keep my free way of living. The people that started this mess can clean it up themselves - I'll be up kicking it with can_dude or something.. :smt043

[A. Snow]

They won't draft. They saw what it did to the military in Vietnam. The military wants draftees as much as the draftees want the military. They just keep it around in case of another world war.

You might find this funny though.

http://snopes.com/military/icecream.htm

[AntiPasta]

lol, in all my 19 years as an expatriate US citizen I have *never* received any correspondence from the US government :P

I will register as a voter though, and vote for Kerry. IMHO, a lot of change is needed in the US.

[cahaz]

I know how you guys feel about Bush and all. I know he's giving the US a bad reputation

indeed , a really bad reputation....

no one seem to love it outside the usa...they hate him

[ASSEMbler]

Come on Mir.....

[kstyle25]

I'll be voting for Bush....I know i'll get flamed for it but I'm glad he was the one in office during everything thats happened the last few years...Michael Moore makes a good movie , Budweiser makes a good commercial...I won't be basing my political opinions on either... :smt043 At least bush is protecting U.S. citizens instead of the Greated spotted owl, or whatever it was yesterday or the day before or last year, that the leftists seem so worried about....hope 9/11's reviews are written on recycled paper or the writers might get a scathing story told about them by Moore! :smt043
Most of this was trying to make levity and not intended to get me killed.....

[ASSEMbler]

I can only hope for peace and... MIR! MIR ! where are you!?? Please! Some form of falling space debris...

[Metal_4evr]

Could you please explain to me how attacking foriegn countries with completly inferior weapons etc is defense? It would be virtually impossible to invade the US as it is due to all the guns and it is possible to protect your country without attacking others unless they pose a real threat. I'm still waiting to see these weapons of mass destruction...

[ASSEMbler]

It's EASY!

1.) No one in the USA votes. (Especially the poor)
2.) Those who vote are rich and profit from poverty and war. These are the people who like to vote. It keeps the rich minority in control.

3.) Elect a damn fool, and then think you'll just ride the next four years with contracts from the government (thanks to your having supported their election fundraising)

4.) Add in an unexpected attack, then use as excuse to give billions of borrowed dollars to arms makers and industrial giants. (They will take care of you after you're out of office). The working class won't realize your scam until their children have to pay it off with record taxes and the cutting of all their benefits.

5.) Bomb the fuck out of your choice of brown people. There's a lot of them, just make sure you restrict the media so no one sees the dead brown children you create.

6.) Make sure you are the first president to violate the Geneva Treaty. Piss off all of your historical allies. Piss off the French, even though they funded the war of independence for your country, and gave you the statue of liberty.

7.) Repeat if re-elected.

I voted democrat, I got all my friends to vote. Hopefully
he will lose. If he WINS there will be serious social
unrest, unseen since the 1960's.

[kstyle25]

This post is in response to Metal_4ever:

Bin Laden has no where near the weapons of Iraq of a year ago and yet he and his backwoods brigade were able to stage and execute an attack on U.S. soil that managed to kill thousands so don't tell me it takes top weapon ability to launch terrorist attacks that kill many and mame many more....the bank accounts of Hussein have been linked to backing Bin Laden as well as countless other terrorist groups....guess we could sit back like those with info on Germany did before WWII and hope nothing happens but we've seen what that gets us....it just gives those willing to kill a little more time to plan and arm....if the world had acted on the info of Germanys armament and plans sooner think how many countless millions would have lived...sad part is that no one thinks of the groups that Hussein was supporting and the countless potential lost lives that regime was making possible.. :smt009

[Metal_4evr]

Sorry about the DP

[Metal_4evr]

He got his cronies stage the attack IN the US. Getting rid of foreign countries may get rid of some of them but you can be sure that it will spawn many more. Concentrating on defense and attacking only when necessary would be much more successful at saving the lives of US troops and civilians. Let me know when the car bombings stop in Iraq and Bin laden is found. I'm not really against the right wing but Bush is tool and needs to be given the boot ASAP before he starts launching nukes or some other bullshit...

[Alchy]

the sad part is that no one thinks of the groups that Hussein was supporting and the countless potential lost lives that regime was making possible.. :smt009No, the sad part is that some people assume that Sadam is the only vicious dictator needing to be overthrown. It's also sad that some people can't see beyond the bullshit reasons that have been thrown at them to justify this whole incident.

32,000 children die every day due to preventable causes (google it if you don't believe me). The $100 billion this war cost could have gone a long way to solving that. If the rest of the world saw the USA giving that amount of cash away you'd see a lot less planes being flown into buildings...

[GaijinPunch]

No, the sad part is that some people assume that Sadam is the only vicious dictator needing to be overthrown.

Amen. My favorite right-wing, pro-war statement is "Saddam is a vicious dictator that needed to be overthrown." While I'll agree the guy was a total asshole, I won't agree that this is why we bombed his country and murdered so many Iraqi citizens. The world is FULL of evil-doers with more weapons... look at North Korea for fuck's sake.

Does the US media not show all these disfigured Iraqi kids? I don't live in the states, so they show them at "the family hour" -- otherwise known as the hour when Janet was nipple-flashing.

[Metal_4evr]

You have to remember that Iraq has something very precious to the US... OIL!

[ASSEMbler]

Don't forget the famicom mines.

[Evangelion-01]

"fool me once.....she.....shame on you, a fool can not be fooled again"

[kstyle25]

Here we go from today:

European Security Council has info regarding Iraq trying to buy enriched Uranium from Niger 2 years before the U.S. strikes...(oh I forgot its ok to try to buy and develop weapons as long as they're not actually found).

Next lets see what has happened that critics said wouldn't happen with the Bush administration:

1) Left says we won't hand over power to Iraqis during this term:
fact: it happened today.
2) Left says that Iraqi public won't support the U.S. in helping with handover of power...fact: 48 out of the 57 newly established state areas of Iraq are in favor of U.S.helping with this handover of power and desire our presence to maintain security...as reported by CNN..(that must have hurt them to report)

3)Left said this handover of control will in no way happen on time... fact: the handover happened 2 days earlier than predicted and without the anticipated attacks or casualties..

4) Left said the Bush administration wouldn't allow them to choose their own people....fact: They chose their own Prime Minister without any vote coming from outside influence....

Bush for President in '04

Everybody hates President Bush for making a stand on anything when thats his strong suit....too many politicians in the world won't make a stand thats likely to upset anyone...Bush answers questions and maintains a stance that can be very unliked but its honest. Can't wait to talk to the Bush haters in 25 years when everyones talking about the stability that this administration brought through much unfortunate yet necessary blood and effort....

[madhatter256]

The 1960s bought lots of shame to the USA because of the atrocities in Vietnam War. The people forced the government to stop the war. The people who did that were the people that rallied in front of the white house, capitol hill, etc. Back then, that kind of rallying worked but now it doesn't work. Even if we start to see major rallies outside of government buildings, nothing will happen. The government (both sides :wink:) have it to where people don't have true control, people with money and connections do. Only thing we can do is get to the top of the system by their way and then change it.

[Metal_4evr]

Did they ever get any uranium? Probably not, but the fact still stands that the US government claimed Iraq DID have weapons of mass destruction. Weapons like that are not something that just disappear without no one knowing. The US may have handed over the "power" but do you really belive they are really under their own control. At the moment Haliburton is in control of their oil and that is an American company. The main resource Iraq has is its oil, and without control of it they are not really in control of their economy and nation. Polls shown on CNN have very little meaning unless other networks / news sources post them. How can you say the Bush administration has been honest when their excuse for invading Iraq is a lie. At this point them "claiming" they had found some would purely coincidental or engineered to give the public justification for the war. Stability? How is calling terror threats every few days stable? If you really wanted to maintain stability you would do things silently so as to not scare the public. Again years from now we will probably have just as many if not more terrorists. Removing the leaders of "terrorist harboring" nations is not the answer, internal defense and increased intelligence is.

[madhatter256]

Removing the leaders of "terrorist harboring" nations is not the answer, internal defense and increased intelligence is.

Well getting rid of the source of the problem is better than hoping that you don't get attacked by one again. But of course having good intelligence is the only way to achieve our goal quicker, we need more spies in the field.

[Calpis]

Tonight I went to a house party (hosted by MoveOn), where other house parties around America could chat live with Michael Moore and view a documentary which parallel's 9/11, it was pleasing to see that my city of 70,000 had the second largest party in the nation :) Be sure to vote and convince someone to vote from a swing state.

www.spiritedaction.org
www.democraticrenewal.us
www.redefeatbush.com
www.moveon.org
www.act4victory.org
www.wvwv.org
www.drivingvotes.org
www.punkvoter.com (headed up by Fat Mike :D)
www.musicforamerica.org
www.turnnevadablue.org
www.noamericanleftbehind.org

[GaijinPunch]

I just saw the movie. I can see how it took the cake at Cannes. Brilliant. Whether or not you agree with the movie, it was fantastic film-making. The current administration usually does a very good job of making themselves look like idiots... Michael Moore does a good job of editing it.

Also worth noting for you righties out there... for the most part, he doesnt' hit his points with a sledgehammer, like in Bowling. In fact, most of the stuff really isn't new... it's just laid out very well. As I don't live in the states, I see a lot of graphic news stories involving citizens getting slaughtered. WHat I don't see however, is interviews with troops which I thought was interesting.

I think my favorite part was when the Iraqi women, after watching her house get bombed, and neighbors/family get slaughtered, did nothing but pray to Allah. She wished only victory to Iraq through God.

[AntiPasta]

Removing the leaders of "terrorist harboring" nations is not the answer, internal defense and increased intelligence is.

Well getting rid of the source of the problem is better than hoping that you don't get attacked by one again. But of course having good intelligence is the only way to achieve our goal quicker, we need more spies in the field.

Frankly I think this whole Iraq debacle had the opposite effect, in a sense that it gave muslim terrorist propagandists more ammo to spread hate against the US among the (ingnorant) masses in the muslim world. Also, with the whole WMD mockery the US lost support of a lot of western nations, as well. Everyone with half a brain knows that the US wouldnt spend hundreds of billions of dollars, lose lots of troops & equipment and ignore the UN just to "oust a vicious dictator" (as good as that goal in it self is), "bring democracy" and "stop terrorism". If that would've been the case they would've gone for North Korea with their public flaunting of their nuclear weapons programme, as opposed to Iraq whose alleged possession of WMDs (most likely not nuclear ones, either) is supported by pretty slim evidence.

Just my $0.02.

[kstyle25]

If you notice the headlines the last couple of days: N Korea issues statement allowing that they will discontinue Nuclear program if U.S. provides the economic aid to build programs necessary to their governments progress...Don't think the ousting of Sadaam hasn't made a few people with nukes nervous....sometimes its smarter to start with a lesser opponent to let others know your serious and will be there shortly if things aren't corrected...hopefully it won't come to that..

[GaijinPunch]

Don't think the ousting of Sadaam hasn't made a few people with nukes nervous

While I think that statement holds true to some, I do not think it holds for N. Korea.

1) Their leader is a nut. He is the Saddam of Japan/Korea, and all I saw on the news for two years was N. Korean crap (ask Yakumo... it was ridiculous). The only reason they quit showing North Korea so much is b/c of the war.

2) Your worst enemy is the one that has nothing to lose. N. Korea has nothing to lose, and everything to gain. What do they care if we invade, and they launch? Either way, they're better off than they were before.

I think have you to live in Asia to appreciate the level of mentalness Asian leaders inhibit. I'm sure I can't appreciate the hypochrasy of Muslim extremeists as I've spent no time around/near them. I have some idea, but I can't fully appreciate their deep-seeded hatred. N. Korea... well... they're kind of the thorn in everyon'e ass over here, and I think *IS* an actual threat to the free world. I still think we should give them economic aid rather than bomb them. They're really fucking poor.

[kstyle25]

I agree aid is much better than war...hopefully they're sincere in their statement and just want the help....