Wishes and support to our friends in Denmark

[ASSEMbler]

http://assemblergames.com/images/dk.gif

Please show your support for democratic freedom of the press (even PR stunts)
by buying Danish products.

The fun way to show support? Have a few Carlsberg or Tuborg Beers.

[1080Peter]

Does this have anything to do with the image of Allah with a turban shaped like a bomb published in a Danish newspaper?

Edit: I found out it was Mohammed, and NOT Allah. Thanks Wolverine DK.

[socialdrone]

i thought talk of politics/religion was frowned on?

i hope people dont get killed over this, which seems more than likely.
but...if a newspaper here in the u.s. printed political cartoons of jesus molesting children in response to the catholic priest scandal, im sure more than a few christians would turn to violence.

the whole situation is ugly.

[ASSEMbler]

Well when they bombed london, I did the same thing.

[Blur2040]

Theres a difference between politics and burning down buildings. If by chance I find something useful from Denmark, I'll buy it.

[Dot50Cal]

Anyone who is sensible can see its not a state owned paper, so what the hell? If say, the NY Times published something similar with Jesus why the hell would I care? I do beleive in God but anyone who is rational can see that its satire. I dont see why these people are rioting and burning the Denmark building..

Oh noes, a paper in DENMARK published a SATIRE CARTOON about our religious prophet! Quick! Burn some fucking buildings!111 THIS MEANS WAR!!11 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Does anyone else see how rediculous this is? I would be astounded if the cartoon prompted so much as a fight, but destroying buildings.....wow...Just wow.

[liquitt]

i have a Denmark sticker on my car, because i love that country and i'm also eating danish roasted onions very often!

DON'T BOYCOTT DENMARK/SCANDINAVIA!


Does anyone else see how rediculous this is?

of course, this is just another fact that shows how retarded (= not rational; enlighted) these people/cultures are. I don't want to attack anyone with that statement, but it's my opinion, how can I think different when being born in the Western World...?

//Edit: just found this:
http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/uploads/nazimuslim.gif

[Fatalist]

In http://www.supportdenmark.com they have some banners in many languages.
I like the Carlsberg beer. :icon_bigg

[NeoAux]

It just goes to show how simple the human mind can be.
People need to wake the **** up.Carlsburg is the bomb.....er im mean great.

[WolverineDK]

People, I am almost crying of joy, and well the big thing is , Islamic faith society is really those people who have made the worst hate propaganda, since they went down there told lies, and that is why
hell is burning so much. And the whole thing is escalating day by day, and there are news in Denmark almost every hour. Because of the whole deal.

[madhatter256]

Boycott oil... eat more danish bakery goods! Very yummy they are..

Anyway, my hat is off to the Danish for voicing how they feel. I think its funny how they (muslims) get pissed when those cartoons were drawn but they tell us to fuck off when they protray jews, americans, and anyone who is not them in an unrespectful way. There is even a popular comic in Egypt where three teenagers (two boys and a girl who knows her place in muslim society) where their arch enemy is "Zionastra" who looks like a stereotypical jew.

I hope no bombs go off in Denmark because of what had just happened.

[WolverineDK]

Madhatter: they aren´t Danish by the way ;) they are really from Austria, (Vienna).

But I fear the worst as a Dane, with Scandinavian heritage, since some of my family roots are from Scania (Skaane/Skåne).
And well I do fear the worst.

[babu]

I must say I trully really respect denmark for the fact that they defend the freedom of speech, instead of going the easy way out. http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_pray.gif

I hope this ends well. :)

[dhau]

I'll go buy several cases of Dannish beer

[WolverineDK]

I hope this ends well. :)

I doubt it will end well. And I am not a pessimist, I am just a realist. But thanks for the kind words.

[Roi]

Isn't a embassy of any country in another land that lands territory?! If so I don't understand why the EU isn't boycotting countries that have attacked another EU's member state.

[WolverineDK]

latest news, are that Iaranies has come into the Danish embassy in Iran, so well I think there will be a new fire in a building.

[liquitt]

remember when the president of the Iran Mr. Ahmadinedschad said, that Israel should be moved to germany?? haha, idiot

for those who don't know:
Mr. Ahmadinedschad said that germany should cut off a piece of their land where alle the jews from israel should live in. that would justify the death of millions of jews in the third reich...

[madhatter256]

latest news, are that Iaranies has come into the Danish embassy in Iran, so well I think there will be a new fire in a building.

Or take them hostage like they did back in 1979...

[Joe Sancho]

I can't believe what we europeans do.
People from countries where civils are kidnapped, tortured and killed tell us how to live here...
We receive here people for those countries and we share with them our work, schools and sanitary system.
Now we excuse us for our freedom system...
Our freedom system that is indeed the reason because of that they can work and live here.
(I hope you all understand me)

[Roi]

We couldn't judge all muslims after:

- New York
- London
- Madrid
- Bali
- the riots in Paris
- the murder of van Gogh
- the statement of the Iranian goverment
- etc. etc.

But when there are a few cartoons made of a Santa Claus you get this...

[Primergy]

Im really sorry for Denmark and other Scandinavian countries being punished
(embassies etc.) by a few fanatic stirrers utilizing the frustrated muslim youth
for having the freedom of press publishing some caricatures.

Reminds me of the situation in areas of eastern Germany.
With way over average unemployment you find des-illusionized teenagers & young ppl flocking to the paroles of the Nazi-ideologies, "brown ideas".

Too bad self-awareness of the own situation is the hardest way...
All you humans (morons), no matter what religion and belief.. make up your own mind!

Maybe its a clash of cultures - between the western (christian) world and the Islam..
But this conflict needs soldiers - its a fight about the minds of young ppl. (some 80% in Iran - and probably other neighbour countries are under the age of 35).
But we also have to stay alerted. - not to become a slave to the media and our own propaganda! (not only pointing to the US - Europe has enough own aims and interests)

[WolverineDK]

Or take them hostage like they did back in 1979...

No, the Danes are out of the building.

[Phinn]

To be honest, I'm not who's worse; the idiots running the Danish newspaper that deliberately aggravated the Muslim world in the current highly charged situation or certain Muslim leaders using this as yet another excuse to exploit the naive to cause death and carnage and thus further their own personal political agendas. At the moment, I'm feeling less sympathetic towards the newspaper. You would have hoped they would of had some dim awareness of the consequences of their actions.

I just pray that the PR stunt of a few moronic Danes won't lead to rest of Denmark being targeted for attacks.

[WolverineDK]

To be honest, I'm not who's worse; the idiots running the Danish newspaper that deliberately aggravated the Muslim world in the current highly charged situation or certain Muslim leaders using this as yet another excuse to exploit the naive to cause death and carnage and thus further their own personal political agendas. At the moment, I'm feeling less sympathetic towards the newspaper. You would have hoped they would of had some dim awareness of the consequences of their actions.

I just pray that the PR stunt of a few moronic Danes won't lead to rest of Denmark being targeted for attacks.
Hmmm I think you have caught in the wrong end, since I think I have seen 100´s of cartoons of JC, and I must say this well I still think they are funny, and no I am not posting the 12 images , and well I can honestly say, that they are funny.

And no, there are no picture of him engaging in sex with minors (one of the lies the society made), and no there are no pictures of the socalled pig mohammed, in the newspaper.

So there are 12 pictures in a satiric , and some of the person in the pictures are Danish actors, and some of them are Danish TV people. And some of them are just pictures made up.

every Christmas in Denmark there comes two very satiric magazines, and they are called Svikmøllen, and the other is called Blæksprutten (the octopus), and they are making fun of the politicians of what they have done through the year.

And Ekstra Bladet is giving a "new years cod", and the Danish word is torsk, and torks is also a slangword for a dork , in Danish. And the cod is given to some politician every year.

In Denmark we make fun of every thing, since that is our only weapon, and well if it stood to some people , many jokes would be removed from the entire internet, because of their "humour".

The Prime Minister of Denmark shall not say "I Am Sorry". And the queen shouldn´t either.

How can I say completely clear ?

The proud Danes have the freedom of speech, and also the freedom of press, and we can say what we want, under responsibility. And we can be punished for it, if we go head on with lies, and racist stuff , and antigay stuff.

But we have the liberty to make some homourous things, like the drawings, but the thing is, right now, Denmark is burning. Even though it is only the embassies in other countries, but it all started before the drawings of Mohammed in Jyllands Posten (The Jutlands Post).

It started back when a person wanted to make book about the life of Mohammed, and he needed a picture of him drawn, and nobody would do it. Since it is illegal to make drawings of him .

So Jyllands Posten made 12 drawings back in September last year. And now the proud Danes are fucked.

I am tired of this case, since I have seen the last months news with this case, since last September, and the Islamic Faith Society with Abu Laban in front. Lieing up in our faces, and talking with two tounges.

And he made the delegation, where all the big lies came.

So now you know, why the Danes, are very tired, and angry, and frightened.

[Metal_4evr]

I am tired of this case, since I have seen the last months news with this case, since last September, and the Islamic Faith Society with Abu Laban in front. Lieing up in our faces, and talking with two tounges.

And he made the delegation, where all the big lies came.

I think they had that Laban guy on CBC Radio the other night and the interview it self was rather interesting to me. He apparently went to countries which had not been exposed to the cartoons and showed them to them although he denied doing it to cause an uproar. When they asked him if he was going to speak out against the carictures done in the Muslim countries of rabis etc. he said that he wasn't a human rights worker and it wasn't his problem. Interesting how that works...

[A. Snow]

This is what happens when zealots gain control (with anything not just religion) and prey on the ignorance of the masses.

[WolverineDK]

liquitt: that drawing makes me think of the role Denmark had under WW2 , and well many of the Danish politicians were outright Traitors of Denmark, and DK was the foodchamber of Germany, and Churchill called us "Hitlers little canary bird", and if it hasn´t been for the resistance groups in DK, we wouldn´t have been a part of NATO, and UN today..

They have even found a document where different rules were layed out, if the nazis won, or if the allies won the war.

And by the way, the Danish WW2 archive is closed for at least 50 more years, because of a clause, but if it will be opened, we will really know the truth about the Danish government under WW2

And well the Danish jews ratted on the German jews, who had fled from Germany, or something like that.

And also Denmark was on their knees for the Americans , after the war, since we were close to be under Russian force(Bornholm was under Russian possesion a year after the war).

That is why the Danish government is so friendly to the American government.

Sorry for going offtopic in this thread, and I promiss, I won´t go into politics, since I know that rule. I just pointed out historical facts about my little lovely Constitunial Democracy :) that is a Kingdom too :)

[madhatter256]

This is what happens when zealots gain control (with anything not just religion) and prey on the ignorance of the masses.

I wouldn't say ignorance. Virtually all of their citizens in those countries are deprived of the same information. They are the shepherd and they're all the sheep. These governments won't go down without a fight if you want them to give their people access to the information we have, such as uncensored Internet.

[dhau]

It's all self-regulated

[_skitzo_]

Freedom of Speech or Incitement to Violence?

[Dot50Cal]

Incitement to Violence or a Harmless Cartoon to anyone sensible?

[ASSEMbler]

The thing is, if you are a true democracy, you can have whatever blasphemous images and it is understood to be free speech.

Now the entire muslim world has secular beliefs. So there is no democracy.
But don't expect me to change what I say or do in my home because you don't like it.

So now they are trying to economically destroy another country because of their acceptance of democracy. Unacceptable.

[_skitzo_]

Incitement to Violence or a Harmless Cartoon to anyone sensible?

Just an an easy way for violence, except you will never hear the media say that

[Taucias]

To be honest, I'm not who's worse; the idiots running the Danish newspaper that deliberately aggravated the Muslim world in the current highly charged situation or certain Muslim leaders using this as yet another excuse to exploit the naive to cause death and carnage and thus further their own personal political agendas. At the moment, I'm feeling less sympathetic towards the newspaper. You would have hoped they would of had some dim awareness of the consequences of their actions.

I just pray that the PR stunt of a few moronic Danes won't lead to rest of Denmark being targeted for attacks.

Yeah, I have to agree. It *is* an extreme reaction and an unacceptable one of course, but you have to ask what the newspapers thought would happen.

It's well known that there are certain minorities in the Islamic faith that will go to extremes to protect their faith. It is forbidden for them even to draw Mohamed or Allah, let alone in such a grossly disrespectful way. It not only angered the extremist religious nuts but it also offended every muslim in the world because it is exactly that kind of ignorant stereotype (i.e. Muslim = terrorist) that Muslims the world over are trying to fight against right now. Newspapers have a responsibility to represent all religions and ethnic groups in a respectful and equal way, and I don't think the fact they also print blasphemous cartoons about Jesus Christ an acceptable get out clause either. They should have been more responsible, and this is the outcome of their stupidity.

I'm not justifying the craziness, but I think there should be a limit on to what constitutes freedom of speech, if not by law then by the ethical framework set out by the media. I can't support what the Danish newspapers did. I know that in Britain we don't have quite the same focus as the Americans do and limits on touchy areas, especially racial remarks, is probably something I can accept more easily than others on this forum. But consider the freedom of speech people have in reality and you'll find we are not really free at all, in fact what we say is often controlled discretely behind the scenes. Even on this forum we can't post certain links or talk about certain topics without getting a thread closed. This is to ensure the forum remains respectable and legally sound. Does it work? Why shouldn't this be extended to prevent extremes like this fiasco in the future?

Another example of what I'm getting at could be that I wouldn't walk through the project shouting racial slurs about blacks. I presume I have that freedom of speech, but if I get shot would I get sympathy? Probably not and rightly so, it would be a stupid thing to do.

As others have said, I hope this doesn't make Denmark a target in the future. London is a scarier place since the bombings, and I wouldn't want the Danes looking over their shoulders all the time like I often find myself doing when I get onto the tube at Kings Cross.

Peace.

[Taucias]

The thing is, if you are a true democracy, you can have whatever blasphemous images and it is understood to be free speech.

Now the entire muslim world has secular beliefs. So there is no democracy.
But don't expect me to change what I say or do in my home because you don't like it.

So now they are trying to economically destroy another country because of their acceptance of democracy. Unacceptable.

Unacceptable, but we are talking about the national media, not you arguing something out with your family at the dinner table or with your friends at the bar. The implications of the freedom of speech are quite different, depending on context.

The world is much smaller now thanks to the age of communication (read: the Internet) and it is also a extremely reactionary place right now - America reacted to 9/11 with extreme violence, Iraqi's are reacting to our invasion and continued presence in their country with the same thing. Granted, the newspapers were Danish and so the cartoons were aimed at an audience that is generally more tolerant, but it was offensive to all muslims and I am sure Denmark has a Muslim population, so based solely on that fact you have to ask if it was right for a national popular newspaper to print such material. It was irresponsible, and they have found out that their audience is a much larger one than they ever could have imagined it to be.

[_skitzo_]

This is just another spit in the face of Freedom of Speech anyone remember how thats like? Freedom of Speech is almost dead like the dodo bird

[A. Snow]

So let me get this straight Taucias, You think we should limit free speech "if not by law then by the ethical framework set out by the media" because it might offend others. I don't think you realize just how slippery that slope you are proposing is. Where is the limit and who sets them? What gives them the right to decide what I should or shouldn't be able to say?

History has proven time and again that when you begin to limit one voice. Even if it starts out noble and is believed to be for the greater good. Eventually it gets easier and easier to limit other voices until all that's left is one voice. That my friend is never a good thing.

Finally your examples on the limit of free speech don't really work because in both cases you have ultimately chosen to limit yourself. You don't have to post here but by doing so you choose to accept the rules. You have the right to say those thing in that situation but you choose not to due to the consequences of what that course of action would bring. In both cases you made the decision. It wasn't made for you like what you are proposing. A far better example would be what is happening in China. People there don't get to decide or have a choice. The government makes the choice for you. Can you honestly say you would like to live in a society like that?

[WolverineDK]

I wouldn't want the Danes looking over their shoulders all the time like I often find myself doing when I get onto the tube at Kings Cross.

Peace.


We are already looking over our shoulders, that is why I deleted my introduction message in the introduce your self thread, since I am living in a town, where I have to dance after their flute, or else..

[Phinn]

Freedom of speech is deemed to be inviolate in the US thanks to the constitution. However, the mainstream press is generally self-censoring (e.g. pictures of US war dead, negative remarks about the President/the war in Iraq etc..) In this way, although you can technically say what you want, in the War on Terror example, actually exercising this right will often get you accused of being 'unpatriotic' and you are marginalised and excluded.

The opposite is true here in Britain. We don't have a constitution; instead the country is governed by Acts of Parliament passed and modified over the centuries as required. Whilst freedom of speech isn't guaranteed by any particular document, any attempt by the government to introduce a law restricting freedom of speech is often hotly opposed (the most recent example being the proposed Religious Hatred Bill, which although passed, was severally neutered from its initial form.) Unlike the US however, the media, politicians and society here are actively engaged in opposing the war. Supporting the war is more likely to be frowned upon than opposing it.

In the UK, we have the Racial Hatred Act and Religious Hatred Act, both recently passed, which prevent anyone saying likely to stir up hatred or violence against a group or individual based on their ethnicity or religious beliefs.

See the conviction today of Muslim cleric Abu Hamza (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4690224.stm) and the imminent retrial of Nick Griffin, the leader of the Far-right British National Party (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4672792.stm).

Freedom of speech, therefore, is almost always restricted, whether formally or informally, thanks to what society considers acceptable under its own value system.

To quote Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." This is my favourite quote. I do hold freedom of speech in the highest regard. Whilst the ability to abuse that freedom proves it exists, I also think that people in positions of power and influence should also realise the responsibility that comes with it.

So, should government allow papers to publish these cartoons? Of course. Should the newspaper editors' conscience allow them to do so? I don't think so.

[WolverineDK]

Phinn: I can´t even say anything (not even political correct), about certain people, without I have to look over my shoulder, to see if I can say it in a secure enviroment, so well the freedom of speech in Denmark is threatened, the place where I used to study, I was threatened out, because I said political correct stuff, and the truth about things. And I almost had a fatwa over my head.

So I must say, that it is time to unite, and fight the opression of the free speech.

Since I want to say prick, and spade without people thinking I am a racist, since I am NOT a racist at all.

and it is this kind of a spade I am talking about.

http://www.edirectory.co.uk/pf/images/products/955/images/spade.jpg


I really don´t know if you know how much shit Denmark is in over their head, over 12 simple pictures, heck in the ancient Christian times a picture of JC was forbidden, but now a days it isn´t.

I even have a joke picture book , made an Ekstra Bladet drawing artist, and if I should respect all the sharia laws, almost every picture would be illegal.

So no, I am tired of being always almost punched in the head, and called a racist.
By Swedes (no offence to you anyway), because of Pia Kjærsgaard.
Or seeing a sticker in Helsingborg, where there stood "Danish bacon, a taste racism".

I am NOT a racistpig.

Or for that matter experience being called a queer, because of my heavy metal headbanging hair, by foreign people in Denmark.

It isn´t fun anymore, that is why we Danes now fight, diplomatic, and the whole western hemosphere is supporting us.

I feel like the incas, when the Spanish came. Sorry for putting in such a perspective, but that is how I feel .

But of course I hate racial slurs, like White Pig, or worse. Just like I hate racial slurs about foreign people. But I admit I have used them in anger. Since when you are too angry your morale standards goes heywire.

But still, it is insane reading so much shit, I have read the last decade or so.

[_skitzo_]

If you can justify others killing people, because of a cartoon...I wount even finsh that sentence

[Jagasian]

Sometimes there is no other choice than war. Think about all of the people that will be surpressed and murdered due to the religious fanaticism in the Islamic world. It is beginning to creep its way into many of the European nations to the point where it will be too late to stop it: civil liberties will be lost, the free and liberal culture of Europe will be destroyed, and Europeans will be supressed or even killed.

To put it bluntly, this has happened before to Europe. When Christianity found its way into Europe for the first time, it was forced onto them via violence. It took hundreds of years of the Dark Ages before Europe finally crawled out from under the yoke of religious supression.

Sometimes war is the best choice. Be strong Europe. Your culture, your society, and your people have the intelligence and strength to conquer them before they conquer you. It is do or die. Either they will conquer Europe and rebuild it in their image, or Europe will conquer them and rebuild their nations in Europe's image. Honestly, answer me this, what is better in the end:

1. Europe rebuilt in the image of the Middle East.
2. The Middle East rebuilt in the image of Europe.

So stop stalling, and fight back! You are the good guys. You have been too nice for too long. Fight back! Don't let them destroy your free and liberal culture. You will not be in the wrong, as they have already begun to attack you first.

[A. Snow]

Your either proposing colonialism or a holy war. Both have been tried and neither would work because nobody is willing to do what it would take to finish either.

[Taucias]

So let me get this straight Taucias, You think we should limit free speech "if not by law then by the ethical framework set out by the media" because it might offend others. I don't think you realize just how slippery that slope you are proposing is. Where is the limit and who sets them? What gives them the right to decide what I should or shouldn't be able to say?

History has proven time and again that when you begin to limit one voice. Even if it starts out noble and is believed to be for the greater good. Eventually it gets easier and easier to limit other voices until all that's left is one voice. That my friend is never a good thing.

Finally your examples on the limit of free speech don't really work because in both cases you have ultimately chosen to limit yourself. You don't have to post here but by doing so you choose to accept the rules. You have the right to say those thing in that situation but you choose not to due to the consequences of what that course of action would bring. In both cases you made the decision. It wasn't made for you like what you are proposing. A far better example would be what is happening in China. People there don't get to decide or have a choice. The government makes the choice for you. Can you honestly say you would like to live in a society like that?

Of course not, but that is an extreme. Society cannot exist peacefully without rules and I don't agree that limiting freedom of speech in terms of extremism or promoting xenophobia is a slippery slope to totalitarism. If anything, preventing those voices from being heard can lower the chance that these voices might become louder in the future. It could actually promote a freer society in terms of open mindedness and tolerance for other races and religions.

What I am proposing is that the media should set out their own guidelines and governing body, in a similar way to how the British media already conduct themselves. It works. My example of this forum stands. I may choose to say whatever I like here, but we all know that the forum has rules forbidding certain topics or reactions and the admins or mods would close and/or delete a topic that broke those rules. Do those rules negatively affect the atmosphere or general freedom of the forums? No, they simply prevent unsavoury or extreme voices from gaining a platform and I think the same kind of rules would apply equally as well to the media in general.

Allow me give another example. Without the propoganda and cartoons against the Jews in the 1930's, would the Nazi group ever have come into power? I'm not suggesting the cartoons of Mohamed are in the same league or even serve the same purpose, but who is to say they don't have a similar effect ultimately? By demonising religious and ethnic groups we run a very real chance of breeding hatred, and that is the really terrible thing. It only takes someone to latch onto a fear in society and connect it to a group of people and suddenly they become public enemy number one.

From small acorns, great oaks do grow.

[luke_skywalker]

Stop making excuse for them. The extreme muslim religion doesn't make the laws of the world. Your trying to tell me that nazis where created by cartoonsn wtf?

The jews where hated because of racism and the teachings of their leaders by false beliefs and by ignorance and hate. Their cartoons where insignifigant and based on what the already felt.

They hate the fact that mohammed has a bomb on his head so they go blow up random cars and burn and blow up buildings creating the very image they say is false. IN the middleeast there are constantly cartoons making fun of the west and jews. Hmm so now the world can't be free because a bunch of extremists don't want us too..yearight!!! If they dont' like the image of muhammed with a bomb on his head maybe they denounce the suicide bombings and stop threating the world with beheadings and bombings and kidnappings etc....Noboby is demonising there religion but themselves.

[WolverineDK]

Hmmm you are only talking about one of the 12 pictures, that is strange, since there are 11 others to chose from.

And this is not an offence to any Swedes with the sticker comment, just a fact that I have seen with my two own eyes in Helsingborg, and this coming comment shall not be misunderstood either.

My father and I has just been talking about this thing about respect and support to the Danes, but well the lovely Swedes we have here on the forum ,where Babu said with an honest respect and support to the Danes, and I do believe him. But well the grand industry in Sweden, doesn´t respect us Danes, since they are now desoldering Danish components in electronics, and putting "nonDanish" components in instead.

That is what I call double morale in Danish, the English counterpart is Double Standard/Standards.


But well it is nothing new(I am going back in time to make a perspective again), under WW2 the Swedes said, they were neutral and all. I am by the way not talking about the individual Swedes, since they were really neutral. But the Swedes (the politicians) let The German troops go into Norway, and bang bang, to this day, the Norwegians "hate" the Swedes, but I can go even further back with the history, but I won´t go offtopic, or for that matter offend the dear lovely Swedes we have on this forum. Since I don´t like to be unpopular.

I just want to say this, the individual civil Swedes can really give their true respect, and support to the Danes, but well double standards are everywhere, even in Denmark where Mærsk MCkinney Møller has said "shame on you Denmark", so he could get some extra money out of this crisis, just to piss on my own country under WW2 A.P. Møller (the father of M M Møller) made money by selling weapons to the German and The Allied side, through the buisness called Riffelsyndikatet (The Rifle Syndicate).

So having double standards, is a normal human thing, even I have them.

But in a month when it is all settled down, we will be at their mercy again in Denmark. And I will be silent in these kind of matters. Since Anders Fogh Rasmussen(our prime minister) said yesterday that USA was in our back, and suporting us, and then The Arab world said "well maybe we should stop this thing". Since they are VERY afraid of USA.

To all Scandinavians we have here on this forum, I am not going to offend you guys.
And neither am I going to offend anyone else. I am just pointing true facts out.

[Taucias]

Stop making excuse for them. The extreme muslim religion doesn't make the laws of the world. Your trying to tell me that nazis where created by cartoonsn wtf?

The jews where hated because of racism and the teachings of their leaders by false beliefs and by ignorance and hate. Their cartoons where insignifigant and based on what the already felt.

They hate the fact that mohammed has a bomb on his head so they go blow up random cars and burn and blow up buildings creating the very image they say is false. IN the middleeast there are constantly cartoons making fun of the west and jews. Hmm so now the world can't be free because a bunch of extremists don't want us too..yearight!!! If they dont' like the image of muhammed with a bomb on his head maybe they denounce the suicide bombings and stop threating the world with beheadings and bombings and kidnappings etc....Noboby is demonising there religion but themselves.

This is part of my point though - only a very small minority of Muslims are fanatics and the Islamic religion doesn't promote terrorism. It's just certain states in the middle east and groups that use religion as a tool to mask their anarchy and hatred for the west.

The Nazi party wasn't created by cartoons, but the hatred for Jews in Germany was furthered by propoganda created by the Nazi party, including racist cartoons and pictures. Trivialising racism with cartoons is one attempt to soften slurs on other races and ethnic groups - it's only a cartoon, it doesn't mean anything, right? Not true. It does have an effect and it probably subconsciously changes our general view of the people portrayed. it serves a purpose.

I'll ask the forum what was/is being shown on CNN? A bunch of burning buildings right? Islam's reaction to a few innocent cartoons? Do they attempt to explain the regimes of these people or what would motivate them to react in such a violent and extreme way? All this whole incident does is breed hatred on both sides.

Globally, Muslims DO denounce suicide bombings and terrorism and the general wish is for peace. Extremist groups do not wish for peace however. They shouldn't have an impact on the rest of the world, but terrorism makes that impact nonetheless. Why provoke more anger in these places when it could easily be avoided by sensible debate? Terrorism isn't a joke, and it shouldn't be made a joke by anyone that is tasked with giving people information and reporting on world events and society. A lot of people source their news from newspapers and believe what they read.

[WolverineDK]

Taucias: You are saying, that the cartoons in the Danish newspaper is promoting racism among Danes ?

Well sorry for saying this, I don´t seriously, if you haven´t studied Danish history. You really have a clue about what you are saying about Danes, yes there are neonazis in Denmark. But not all danes are neonazis. Yes we do have racists among Danes, but remember there are three ways of racism, there are the old version that was the nazis, racial teachings, but also racism means fears of the foreign, culture etc. but also a hatred, and the individual danes isn´t racist, and he doesn´t hate everybody, I can say personally, that if you can behave good. You won´t even be noticed, if you have an accent in your Danish language.

So about the newspaper, well they made a statement through the pictures. But well I think I have said before many many times, the Danes are very laid back people, and takes things easy, you can even say fuck in TV without being beeped out. You can do so many things. So Denmark is a lovely country , and I invite anyone to Denmark, who knows how to behave, and I will of course buy you a beer if you want one.

[_skitzo_]

This is what I don't get, and if this has been brought up, Im sorry I missed it...

I'm roman catholic, the pope, pictures of christ, and pretty much the whole religion is spat on in the media, from latenight shows, to sitcoms.
Last I checked outside, I dont see people running down the road with a cross in there hand, participating in acts of violence.
You can take a civil stand on issues which bother you and you dont like. But then again I have the feeling, if you don't like it, turn it off, dont read it, get your point across with out looking barbaric and foolish.
Ive seen the cartoon, and it is what it is, a cartoon. To have people to participat in the acts in which has been done is far worse.

New York artist Andres Serrano, whose notorious photograph called "Piss Christ" (a photo of a crucifix submerged in Serrano's urine)
Imagine in this art-provocation mode, he produced another photo called "Piss Talmud" which had a couple pages of the Talmud submerged in his artistically photographed urine.

Serrano would never have a show in New York again.

See the irony in this....

[Taucias]

Taucias: You are saying, that the cartoons in the Danish newspaper is promoting racism among Danes ?

Well sorry for saying this, I don´t seriously, if you haven´t studied Danish history. You really have a clue about what you are saying about Danes, yes there are neonazis in Denmark. But not all danes are neonazis. Yes we do have racists among Danes, but remember there are three ways of racism, there are the old version that was the nazis, racial teachings, but also racism means fears of the foreign, culture etc. but also a hatred, and the individual danes isn´t racist, and he doesn´t hate everybody, I can say personally, that if you can behave good. You won´t even be noticed, if you have an accent in your Danish language.

So about the newspaper, well they made a statement through the pictures. But well I think I have said before many many times, the Danes are very laid back people, and takes things easy, you can even say fuck in TV without being beeped out. You can do so many things. So Denmark is a lovely country , and I invite anyone to Denmark, who knows how to behave, and I will of course buy you a beer if you want one.

Ah, I wasn't trying to imply Danes are neo-nazis or that there is a major racist problem in Denmark. I am sure Denmark is a wonderful country and from the Danes I have met in my travels I know they are an extremely friendly and inviting bunch :)

My point was that racial cartoons don't have a place in a national newspaper for the very reason that they are racist and thus depict people in a disrespectful negative way. They can only provoke a negative response, as we are seeing right now.

[Jagasian]

Your either proposing colonialism or a holy war. Both have been tried and neither would work because nobody is willing to do what it would take to finish either.

Holy War has nothing to do with it. Like I have said, Europe has been attacked by religion before: Christianity threw Europe into the Dark Ages... and it took hundreds of years before it was able to pull itself out of that degenerate culture. I am sorry if this upsets Christians, but it is the truth. History is trying to repeat itself here, but this time it is not Christianity... instead, it is Islam.

Europeans were weak, poor, and uneducated when Christianity came. Hence Europe lost and was thrown into the Dark Ages. But now Europe has the strength, wealth, and intellect to fight back and stop another Dark Age. Stop being so nice that you let them walk all over you! Wake up! Fight back! Nobody else can do it for you. This has nothing to do with colonialism. Colonialism is about greed. This war will be about defending oneself from another Dark Age.

If Europe is thrown into another Dark Age of oppresive religious rule, it will not be because they couldn't defend themselves. It will be because they chose not to defend themselves. Unlike America, which has been an aggressor in this mess, Europe has been the nice guy, the good guy, that lets bad people walk all over them. Even the most forgiving people eventually have to say that enough is enough. Stand up for yourself!

[Phinn]

Holy War has nothing to do with it. Like I have said, Europe has been attacked by religion before: Christianity threw Europe into the Dark Ages... and it took hundreds of years before it was able to pull itself out of that degenerate culture. I am sorry if this upsets Christians, but it is the truth. History is trying to repeat itself here, but this time it is not Christianity... instead, it is Islam.

Europeans were weak, poor, and uneducated when Christianity came. Hence Europe lost and was thrown into the Dark Ages. But now Europe has the strength, wealth, and intellect to fight back and stop another Dark Age. Stop being so nice that you let them walk all over you! Wake up! Fight back! Nobody else can do it for you. This has nothing to do with colonialism. Colonialism is about greed. This war will be about defending oneself from another Dark Age.

Surely the fall of the Roman Empire caused the Dark Ages? Pagan Europe was conquered by pagan Romans. Europe was primitive before and primitive for a long time after the Romans came. Christianity had little to do with it. If anything, the lack of Christianity was why the period became known as the 'Dark Ages'. The Renaissance happened to a Christian Europe and it was a Christian Europe that dominated the world for many centuries.

[luke_skywalker]

This is part of my point though - only a very small minority of Muslims are fanatics and the Islamic religion doesn't promote terrorism. It's just certain states in the middle east and groups that use religion as a tool to mask their anarchy and hatred for the west.

The Nazi party wasn't created by cartoons, but the hatred for Jews in Germany was furthered by propoganda created by the Nazi party, including racist cartoons and pictures. Trivialising racism with cartoons is one attempt to soften slurs on other races and ethnic groups - it's only a cartoon, it doesn't mean anything, right? Not true. It does have an effect and it probably subconsciously changes our general view of the people portrayed. it serves a purpose.

I'll ask the forum what was/is being shown on CNN? A bunch of burning buildings right? Islam's reaction to a few innocent cartoons? Do they attempt to explain the regimes of these people or what would motivate them to react in such a violent and extreme way? All this whole incident does is breed hatred on both sides.


Globally, Muslims DO denounce suicide bombings and terrorism and the general wish is for peace. Extremist groups do not wish for peace however. They shouldn't have an impact on the rest of the world, but terrorism makes that impact nonetheless. Why provoke more anger in these places when it could easily be avoided by sensible debate? Terrorism isn't a joke, and it shouldn't be made a joke by anyone that is tasked with giving people information and reporting on world events and society. A lot of people source their news from newspapers and believe what they read.

Keep making excuses for their actions. They will love the support.Many of there most visual leaders openly preach hate, murder, kidnappings, beheadings and disrespect for everyone in the world we're so used to it it seems common place. Seems to me like their freedom of expression applies to them alone. Here is a picture of just one of the hundreds of protests that are happening. It's easy to downplay it by saying its a smal percentage but that becomes pointless when you consider that means thosands of people filled with these ideas and hate.

http://www.lawspc.com/group.jpg

http://www.lawspc.com/images/group.jpg

[luke_skywalker]

A video was released today that shows the cartoonists of the controversial cartoon threatened with their lives. The faces of the editors of the paper in which the cartoons were first shown are covered by sniper targets, also the video orders Muslims to continue boycotting Danish products. The video originates from a forum that is often used by known terror groups.

Typical Cartoons found everyday throughout the middle east.

http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/cartoons/8-3-02-Al-Ahram-Al-Arabi_400.jpg


http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/cartoons/7_29_02_tishrin_a.jpg



http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/cartoons/7_28_al_watan.jpg


http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/al-ahram-syria-may29_02.jpg



http://x003.uploaderx.net/x/37418005.jpg


http://x004.uploaderx.net/x/1.JPG


http://x004.uploaderx.net/x/2.JPG


http://x004.uploaderx.net/x/3.JPG


- Danish products are boycotted in all of Middle East
- Some highly representative Middle Eastern organizations are threatening to kill Danes. And Swedes too for some reason even though we haven't done jack shit to this issue really.
- Bomb threats all over Danish stuff
- Muslim countries are calling home their ambassadors



A World Without Zion (http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48430)

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/doctorzin/wozion2.jpghttp://img493.imageshack.us/img493/4024/wousa5xw.jpg

Apparently a major portion of the speech last fall given by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was that to "wipe israel off the map", they must first wipe america off the map. First america, then israel as the picture suggests.

[Alchy]

So, should government allow papers to publish these cartoons? Of course. Should the newspaper editors' conscience allow them to do so? I don't think so.This really is the crux of the argument. There's a massive difference between having free speech and using it. And having the ability to exercise freedom of speech does not exclude your from its consequences.

Example: when I see a fat guy in the street, it's well within my rights of free speech to take the piss out of him. Obviously I don't, because such antagonism serves no purpose.

It's exactly the same with this case of the picture. It's not offensive to me, but it's clearly offensive to a lot of people. Out of respect for them, as a newspaper editor I wouldn't print it. It's common courtesy.

The fact they're hipocrits doesn't change anything, either. So they denounce cartoons with Mohammed in them on one hand and publish anti-semitic cartoons on the other - that makes them jackasses. Responding by deliberately publishing cartoons that offend them just makes you a jackass too.


If Europe is thrown into another Dark Age of oppresive religious rule, it will not be because they couldn't defend themselves. It will be because they chose not to defend themselves. Unlike America, which has been an aggressor in this mess, Europe has been the nice guy, the good guy, that lets bad people walk all over them. Even the most forgiving people eventually have to say that enough is enough. Stand up for yourself!Are you honestly suggesting that any real number of people in Europe are going to suddenly become muslims? After all this sort of behaviour? Or that any attempt to stamp muslim culture over our consumerist culture would have an effect? Get real...

[WolverineDK]

Just to make matters worse, they still want an apology from the politicians, and now I am shouting NO FUCKING WAY !

And Jyllands Posten will now make in collaberation with an Irany newspaper, some "funny" pictures of JC, and of the hollocaust.


Taucias: are you a muslim ? or a sympathiser ? or for that matter a female person in love with a muslim ?

Since every time I try to explain the freedom of speech to you, it is like fighting in brown soap, since I don´t where I have you.

Sorry for going into the extreme, but I don´t think you know how much the Danish population is threatened...

Heck, it is not even fun listening to people shouting "death to Denmark !" or for that matter "death to Norway !" or for that matter "death to Sweden !", or for that matter seeing your flag being burned and stomped on , and buildings too. And people making hate propaganda, and telling BIG lies.

I don´t know how to say it, but how would you like if people burned your flag off, and stomped on it, and maybe even pissed on it. Then I think you also would begin to feel enough is enough.

That is how I feel, and many other Danes.

Enough is enough, the 12 pictures was just the drop in the glass that made it spill over.

I just feel this case has become uglier, by the days .

And other pictures that was made , like the pig mohammed was from some pig oink contest in France, and well again you can see by the comment by imam Ahmed Akkari that BBC used the picture, since they said in a lie, that is was used by Jyllands Posten, and BBC gave us an apology today. And even some other pictures that Weekend avisen showed, made in a satiric NOT of mohammed, but a joke on the whole
case was seen in the BBC program, and they weren´t at all of Mohammed, but something else.

Ahmed Akkari, has this opinion about muslim women without their head covered, that is okay to kick them if they don´t have it on.

I rest my case untill further notice.

People, I don´t want this vacuum in Denmark not to end for a while, since I feel more free than I have ever had in a while, since as one told me, he hasn´t felt so free like the 50´s since there wasn´t that big thing at all. And the person who told me about the 50´s said he felt it was like that right now in Denmark because of this case, some people behaves better right now.

But sadly it will end soon..

And I would have never imagined what I have experienced in this case .. since the 30. of September where the 12 pictures were shown in Jyllands Posten.

This case is ugly, period.

[Taucias]

Just to make matters worse, they still want an apology from the politicians, and now I am shouting NO FUCKING WAY !

And Jyllands Posten will now make in collaberation with an Irany newspaper, some "funny" pictures of JC, and of the hollocaust.


Taucias: are you a muslim ? or a sympathiser ? or for that matter a female person in love with a muslim ?

Since every time I try to explain the freedom of speech to you, it is like fighting in brown soap, since I don´t where I have you.

Sorry for going into the extreme, but I don´t think you know how much the Danish population is threatened...


Being a white Christian British citizen with a white Orthodox Christian American girlfriend (quite a mouthful, and I'm talking about the sentence here), I indeed have a good idea where you are coming from and how you might feel threatened. It is understandable for you to feel angry and frightened.

Let me be quite clear, because it is obvious that some people are reading my opinion and equating it to sympathy for all that has happened. I do not agree with terrorism or extremism in any shape or form. There is no place for it in the civilized world. I am against any kind of violence. I am also against racism of any kind, against any race. London was bombed not so long ago and the tube stations hit were ones I frequently travel on.

As I have stated, I think it was irresponsible for the Danish newspapers to display such cartoons, regardless of what other cartoons may be being shown in the middle east. What good did it do? None whatsoever. All it has done is make you guys a target and offended a load of people.



Heck, it is not even fun listening to people shouting "death to Denmark !" or for that matter "death to Norway !" or for that matter "death to Sweden !", or for that matter seeing your flag being burned and stomped on , and buildings too. And people making hate propaganda, and telling BIG lies.


I don´t know how to say it, but how would you like if people burned your flag off, and stomped on it, and maybe even pissed on it. Then I think you also would begin to feel enough is enough.


They've been doing it to the USA and the UK for years mate, welcome to the club. We blame our governments, but you have a newspaper to thank for it. Pretty stupid, isn't it? It's a fucked up world we live in, and it is a dangerous future we face.

[Phinn]

This really is the crux of the argument. There's a massive difference between having free speech and using it. And having the ability to exercise freedom of speech does not exclude your from its consequences.

Example: when I see a fat guy in the street, it's well within my rights of free speech to take the piss out of him. Obviously I don't, because such antagonism serves no purpose.

It's exactly the same with this case of the picture. It's not offensive to me, but it's clearly offensive to a lot of people. Out of respect for them, as a newspaper editor I wouldn't print it. It's common courtesy.

The fact they're hipocrits doesn't change anything, either. So they denounce cartoons with Mohammed in them on one hand and publish anti-semitic cartoons on the other - that makes them jackasses. Responding by deliberately publishing cartoons that offend them just makes you a jackass too.

Spot on. If we want to maintain the moral high ground, then just because Muslim newspapers publish degoratory cartoons of Jews and Christians, doesn't mean we should. Yes, they are hyprocrites, but that's why we're right and they're wrong. As soon as you emulate their actions, then it's just a meaningless slagging match.

[WolverineDK]

Taucias: thanks for the explanation, myself I believe in God, and I am a humanist, and that is about all in that matter, and yes I am white. But to me colours don´t matter, it is the behavior in the individiual that matters :)

So if you are caucasian and behaves like a dork, and do stupid stuff, I would probably not like you. But if you behave good, I can respect you, even if you were black, so colours isn´t a factor to me.

And same thing with me, if I had a bad behavior, I wouldn´t be respected.

And I try really hard to behave good, instead of bad.

Peace.

[madhatter256]

What's going on now are issues that were bound to come up. Issues between Jews and Muslims, Christians, etc. As well as economic issues regarding world hunger, energy and living space. Old world issues are bound to be resolved either voilently or peacefully. War is still inevitable when it comes to this current issue. These governments and lifestyles/societies will not change by themselves.. They need either peaceful change or aggressive action.

[madhatter256]

This is what I don't get, and if this has been brought up, Im sorry I missed it...

I'm roman catholic, the pope, pictures of christ, and pretty much the whole religion is spat on in the media, from latenight shows, to sitcoms.
Last I checked outside, I dont see people running down the road with a cross in there hand, participating in acts of violence.
You can take a civil stand on issues which bother you and you dont like. But then again I have the feeling, if you don't like it, turn it off, dont read it, get your point across with out looking barbaric and foolish.
Ive seen the cartoon, and it is what it is, a cartoon. To have people to participat in the acts in which has been done is far worse.

New York artist Andres Serrano, whose notorious photograph called "Piss Christ" (a photo of a crucifix submerged in Serrano's urine)
Imagine in this art-provocation mode, he produced another photo called "Piss Talmud" which had a couple pages of the Talmud submerged in his artistically photographed urine.

Serrano would never have a show in New York again.

See the irony in this....

What Serrano did was not considered art. Before the public knew what that yellow stuff was, it was considered art. Once they found out, he was criticized by the art community, because even though it was a form of "free speech" (since he used that as an excuse in keeping up on display in NYC) it was not considered art and thus he's basically shunned from the mainstream as well as the deep roots art community.

Of course you don't see riots of fundamental christians parading the streets throwing molatov cocktails around because there aren't a lot of them and they all live in the backwoods of America and in other countries. And they are also considered terrorists and are under heavy surveilance by the government. A side note: the true motive behind the domestic wiretaps without a court order that was a hot topic a 2 weeks back was to keep tabs on such white extremist groups (domestic terrorists). But the mainstream media doesn't tell you this because its not newsworthy reporting things the government is doing that actually works. And these groups are even deadlier because they look and dress like the average joe compared to a muslim terrorist.

Anyway, I recorded a funny but very true clip from the Colbert Report on Comedy Central that talks about the cartoons, and humor, etc., which I think some people here should watch because it does have merit on what it says even though its on a "fake-news" show. I just gotta find a place where you all can download it.

[luke_skywalker]

Small percentage huh? Only one protest here.

"We will uphold the messenger of God not only by our voices but also by our blood," he told the crowds, estimated by organizers at about 700,000. Police had no final estimates but said the figure was likely to be even higher.

[*RichM*]

This is part of my point though - only a very small minority of Muslims are fanatics and the Islamic religion doesn't promote terrorism. It's just certain states in the middle east and groups that use religion as a tool to mask their anarchy and hatred for the west.

What Taucias said up there is exactly whats happening within the muslim world.
Many Muslims sects using partly chopped verses in their holy bible to justify their acts like killing, terror, beheading etc, when the actual verses in its completeness were talking about happenings during war, well it's im



Keep making excuses for their actions. They will love the support.Many of there most visual leaders openly preach hate, murder, kidnappings, beheadings and disrespect for everyone in the world we're so used to it it seems common place.

As for you luke_skywalker,
I suppose you are well fed by the western media who has always loved to label Islam as barbaric and very rarely tried to attempt to find the true islamic teachings on their media coverage.
the words "we're so used to" rings a loud sounding bell
Western media are very sucessfull at this, which also justifies the hatred towards west by the muslim world, then in turn makes the whites as enemies of Islam.

We should try to understand each others beliefs to the fullest and don't get easily provoked by any media reports or the false application of freedoom of speech.

[*RichM*]

Small percentage huh? Only one protest here.

"We will uphold the messenger of God not only by our voices but also by our blood," he told the crowds, estimated by organizers at about 700,000. Police had no final estimates but said the figure was likely to be even higher.

700,000 out of 1,200,000,000 (1,2 billion) muslims in planet earth.. don't it count as small percentage?
:confused:

Islam has 73 sects, 72 of them are not following the true teachings of Islam, only one 1 is.

All these times the media are busy filing reports on these 72 sects of Islam, some of them are more barbaric than others perhaps, still the 1 true Islam is succesfully disguised behind the reports.

[luke_skywalker]

700,000 out of 1,200,000,000 (1,2 billion) muslims in planet earth.. don't it count as small percentage?
:confused:

Islam has 73 sects, 72 of them are not following the true teachings of Islam, only one 1 is.

All these times the media are busy filing reports on these 72 sects of Islam, some of them are more barbaric than others perhaps, still the 1 true Islam is succesfully disguised behind the reports.
700.000 people at one protest in one town in one part of the world one of hundreds of protests. It only took what ten of them to carry out the world trade center attacks, it only takes half a dozen to kidnap and behead people. Small percentage means nothing when your talking about hundreds of thousands.

Saudi Cleric: Cartoon Publishers Should Be Tried

Saudi Arabia's top cleric called on the world's Muslims to reject apologies for the "slanderous" caricatures of Islam's Prophet Mohammed (javascript:siteSearch('Prophet Mohammed');) and demanded the authors and publishers of the cartoons be tried and punished, Saudi newspapers reported Saturday.

[*RichM*]

700.000 people at one protest in one town in one part of the world one of hundreds of protests. It only took what ten of them to carry out the world trade center attacks, it only takes half a dozen to kidnap and behead people. Small percentage means nothing when your talking about hundreds of thousands.

Exactly..
small percentage means nothing.
It does not mean the whole muslim world and Islam is barbaric and gives false teachings of peace which is the base of the true Islamic religion.



Saudi Cleric: Cartoon Publishers Should Be Tried

Saudi Arabia's top cleric called on the world's Muslims to reject apologies for the "slanderous" caricatures of Islam's Prophet Mohammed (javascript:siteSearch('Prophet Mohammed');) and demanded the authors and publishers of the cartoons be tried and punished, Saudi newspapers reported Saturday.

Saudi Top Cleric even doesn't justify the true Islam views in this situation.

The biggest Islam nation, Indonesia and Malaysia ( about 300 million muslims ) , All of the top clerics, even don't give such Rejection to the apologies, few of the left wing militant clerics do gives such rejection but nobody cares about them there.

1,2 billion muslim doesn't always follow top clerics in Saudi, a top cleric in saudi don't have by any chance similar power as what the Islamic Prophet once had.

The true Islam teachings is the same as what fellow christians were taught by Jesus Christ, which is to forgive and forget.

A saudi cleric not exercising that shall not even be considered a top cleric.

[luke_skywalker]

Exactly..
small percentage means nothing.
It does not mean the whole muslim world and Islam is barbaric and gives false teachings of peace which is the base of the true Islamic religion.



Saudi Top Cleric even doesn't justify the true Islam views in this situation.

The biggest Islam nation, Indonesia and Malaysia ( about 300 million muslims ) , All of the top clerics, even don't give such Rejection to the apologies, few of the left wing militant clerics do gives such rejection but nobody cares about them there.

1,2 billion muslim doesn't always follow top clerics in Saudi, a top cleric in saudi don't have by any chance similar power as what the Islamic Prophet once had.

The true Islam teachings is the same as what fellow christians were taught by Jesus Christ, which is to forgive and forget.

A saudi cleric not exercising that shall not even be considered a top cleric.

Well he is the top cleric in saudi arabia, so how many thousands of people do you think it takes until it's considered a concern.

I'm sure the same things you say were being said by some people during hitlers rise of followers of a radical belief. Hitler and his Nazi Science followers numbered in the tens of thousands. I'm sure thats a small percentage of 1.2 billion aswell, the nazi movement wasn't a big deal then i guess.

Oh i forgot according to the president of iran the holocaust nevered happened. So the growth of hitler and his followers never happened apparently. Whats the big deal though he's just a president of of a country of a small percentage of the worlds muslims right?

[WolverineDK]

Here is a message that will rock your bottom out of your pants, 12 people met up at the daughter of one the drawing artists school, thank goodness the daughter wasn´t there.

And here you have two links that I don´t care if they provoke any muslims ! ! !

http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/dacha/001580.html

http://www.petitiononline.com/danmark/petition.html

[babu]

yeah, just read about it on a swedish news site. that just f-ed up! I mean his daugther doesn't even have anything todo with it. http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/images/smilies/009.gif

[Alchy]

Anyone got a source for this? Can't find any mention through google.

[WolverineDK]

Anyone got a source for this? Can't find any mention through google.
Yup it was in the news yesterday, by Anders Fogh Rasmussen´s righthand(edit Jens Rohde ), who said it, and it was on the frontpage of Ekstra Bladet, and well the information was "classified", but he said it anyway.

The Danish name for Jens Rohde is "politisk ordfører" and a translation Political Word Leader , but the real English word for is not known to me.

[Alchy]

... I kind of meant an internet link ;)

There's one here (http://agora.blogsome.com/2006/03/02/cartoonists-daughter-hunted-by-jihadists/), which says says the whole thing's a hoax/misunderstanding. "Four weeks ago, 6-8 Moslem girls showed up at the school of the daughter of one of the cartoonists, asking for "the daughter of the cartoonist who had insulted their prophet". They were turned away at the door." Apparently they were 10/11 years old.

[WolverineDK]

... I kind of meant an internet link ;)

There's one here (http://agora.blogsome.com/2006/03/02/cartoonists-daughter-hunted-by-jihadists/), which says says the whole thing's a hoax/misunderstanding. "Four weeks ago, 6-8 Moslem girls showed up at the school of the daughter of one of the cartoonists, asking for "the daughter of the cartoonist who had insulted their prophet". They were turned away at the door." Apparently they were 10/11 years old.

Alchy, I have just seen Jens Rohde in TV2 Nyhederne, and DR1´s TV Avisen, and I could see in his face, that the information was real, and the other people had backstabbed him, and I know politicians are liers, but well I know he wasn´t joking. and his information was true, and well 8, 11 years girls isn´t true.

So I don´t give a rats ass about that comment that Klaus Seidel came with.

[Alchy]

If you read the article, the cartoonist involved (ie, the guy whose daughter was threatened) says it was a group of 6-8 girls. Personally, I trust his word.

You're believing what you want to believe, rather than looking at it rationally.

[WolverineDK]

If you read the article, the cartoonist involved (ie, the guy whose daughter was threatened) says it was a group of 6-8 girls. Personally, I trust his word.

You're believing what you want to believe, rather than looking at it rationally.

Dear Alchy, I live in Denmark, and you live in the UK. But when I see a person not lieing, it is because of his bodylanguage is open, and completely honest, so well I NOT am fan of the rightwing, at all. But I do like the truth when it is spoken, and that is why I know Jens Rohde was telling the truth.

Since his bodylanguage was open, and complete honest, and I understand the Danish language.

[Alchy]

How scientific - disregard the facts and go with a hunch.

[WolverineDK]

Alchy: well well well, I have just seen the late news with the smashing fucking great documentary from France 2, on Danish TV2, and Ahmed Akkari has just given in "jest" a deaththreat to Naser Kader, but hmmm well I woldn´t call a death threat to anyone a joke, and well what at least Two Danish comedians has said, then Ahmed Akkari is a complete moron, and an idiot, and needs to get on retirement pension.


So Alchy : if you are a muslim, and I am the Danish church minister, and I gave you a death threat in Danish, and later on said it was in "jest" was I allowed to say it ? or should I shut up ?


And by the way, the whole Islamic faith society are Salamists. Or what ever last word I could get out of the Arabic sound , with the French syncing over it, plus Danish subtitles.

So here goes a very big fucking thank you to the French from me :)

[Alchy]

What does all that have to do with anything? Could you try and post more coherently, please?

[WolverineDK]

What does all that have to do with anything? Could you try and post more coherently, please?

The French program took on a "undercover" mission into the Århus islamist movement, because of the 12 drawings, and well : That you could read in the news, if you look the right places, but hmmm a funny fact about Abu Laban, is that Laban means rascal in Danish, but yes Laban is a rascal, but he is much much more than just a rascal.

Alchy please try to find the news this time, internationally. Perhaps with the French ? thing and information for you, it was France 2 who showed the program first earlier today.

[Alchy]

If you're going to debate me about some news then you either provide sources, or include enough information in your post so that I can understand what you're talking about. That said, I can't see any mention of anything relating to this on the BBC news front page (http://news.bbc.co.uk/).

[Paulo]

What does all that have to do with anything? Could you try and post more coherently, please?

Give up now then...

[WolverineDK]

If you're going to debate me about some news then you either provide sources, or include enough information in your post so that I can understand what you're talking about. That said, I can't see any mention of anything relating to this on the BBC news front page (http://news.bbc.co.uk/).
Is BBC and CNN the only international news you call internation news ? Sorry mate, but it is sad you aren´t getting that information I have got tonight Danish time 22:00 GMT+1 Sir ! so the time was 21:00 your time, when TV2 nyhederne gave their last news for today, and tomorrow they will show the news at 6:00 your time Sir.


And even DR1 and DR2 has mentioned the news , and Naser Kader is thinking of stopping his political career because of the death threats. And sorry, but is France 2 wrong ? hmmm

what about checking http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php?id=3872790

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/baggrund/article.php?id=3871224

Hmm well here it is, and maybe even you can find a link to the documentary somewhere on the main site.

[Alchy]

Did it not occur to you at any point when you were copying and pasting those links that I might not (and in fact don't) speak Danish?

[WolverineDK]

Did it not occur to you at any point when you were copying and pasting those links that I might not (and in fact don't) speak Danish?

And ? well, I don´t speak german, or for that matter French, or Portugese or for that matter any other language than English And Danish, and I understand Swedish and Norwegian but at least if somebody would be kind enough to me posting links in these languages, then they could take it as proof, since I am only showing the proof, that I am not posting bullshit rumours, and perhaps some French people could post the site to France 2 who showed the documentary earlier today, and hmm here is a little hint to you, the Danish language has so many English sounding words in it. So you could get some understanding out of it. But well, at least I have posted some links, and hmmm another site in another language shouldn´t be that hard to navigate in, here is another little help, Find the Proper Nouns, those with capital Letters, and and well use the trial and error technique/method :)

Trusler = threats døds trusler = death threats, and undskyldning = apology and undskylder = apologies etc.

[Alchy]

Uh... reality check? I have no idea what those articles are about. They could be completely full of lies and rumours and I wouldn't be able to tell, and even if I used an automatic translation tool I'd still be unsure what exactly the articles were trying to communicate (assuming babelfish even offers to translate Danish). I would have thought it was obvious - if you don't speak Danish, you can't understand it. It's such a redundant statement I can't believe I'm having to make it.

Paulo was right, let's just drop it.

[WolverineDK]

Alchy: Yeah right like TV2 is a joke TV channel ? and they are just some jokers who don´t show real news ? and you don´t believe me for telling the truth ? because I speak , love and understand Danish ? well , why don´t we ask our great Swedes, and Norwegian members on the board, if I am showing you joke news ?

have you forgotten, that maybe I am the only Danish posting guy here, but we have at least three swedes, who can work their arse through the Danish text, and maybe even confirm that my links aren´t joke links ?


And we have a Norwegian , who knows that 80 % of the Norwegian is "Danish" ? or for that matter that Darkhelmet, and Mika-L who aren´t posting understands Danish just like me, and who can also confirm, that TV2 isn´t a joke channel ?

or for that matter Seablue, who aren´t posting either can confirm to you, that TV2 isn´t a Danish joke bullshit channel.

And ok I drop it, but it is just sad that some people doesn´t believe, but that is just sad for them. And not for me.

[Mark30001]

This thread was near dead.

Let it rest in peace not pieces! :)

[WolverineDK]

This thread was near dead.

Let it rest in peace not pieces! :)

The thing is Sir, that I couldn´t give two shits for the old case (in my mind anyway), but when something like gets in the news, then you have no idea, how much it gets me on the nerves, since it is something I don´t like. And I mean it in this way, maybe I don´t like Naser Kader , but I will never in my life threaten a person like that. That is just insane, because I don´t like is one thing, but that is because of something completely different and has nothing to do with this case, and at the same time, I think alot of his comments are quite good, and true.

But threaten a politician is just plain madness.

Well Anders Fogh Rasmussen (our prime minister) , him I don´t like at all. But throwing paint at him, or worse stuff , is just plain stupidity, and it gives you at least 3 months in jail for throwing paint on a politicians.

So when people are fighting for a muslim sharia state in Denmark, then you know that the rage in alot people gets up and running like wildfire, and some of us are waiting on that a fight will arise between people.

But I won´t participate in the fight, but I won´t be neutral in the side of the fight.
I will do squat to help, and do squat to stop it.

[babu]

well.. my danish is a little rusty (meaning not very good :P)
but from what I could pick up on the news site (http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php?id=3872790)

danish:
"Naser Khader er for rystet til at træde frem på tv og er gået under jorden i dag. Det radikale folketings*medlem er i forvejen under stort pres pga. af dødstrusler fra muslimer."

english (bad translation):
"Naser Khader today anounced that he has to go undercover (is that the right word? oO) from today. The radical folketings-member (I think folketing is a danish political program, or what it's called) under lots of press because of the death threats from muslims."

so I guess I can confirm what WolverineDK is saying.

edit: just wanted to point out that this is what I belive the text is saying.. please correct me if I'm wrong ^:^

[Alchy]

Alchy: Yeah right like TV2 is a joke TV channel ? and they are just some jokers who don´t show real news ? and you don´t believe me for telling the truth ? because I speak , love and understand Danish ? well , why don´t we ask our great Swedes, and Norwegian members on the board, if I am showing you joke news ?Calm down. I never said it was full of lies, I said I couldn't tell if it was or not because I don't speak Danish. Stop jumping to wild conclusions.

Wolverine, if you've got anything further to add to this, please PM me since this seems to have turned into a personal matter. I don't know if you think I've attacked you or your country or your news corporations in some way, but it'd probably be better resolved in private rather than by cluttering up this thread.

[WolverineDK]

well.. my danish is a little rusty (meaning not very good :P)
but from what I could pick up on the news site (http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php?id=3872790)

danish:
"Naser Khader er for rystet til at træde frem på tv og er gået under jorden i dag. Det radikale folketings*medlem er i forvejen under stort pres pga. af dødstrusler fra muslimer."

english (bad translation):
"Naser Khader today anounced that he has to go undercover (is that the right word? oO) from today. The radical folketings-member (I think folketing is a danish political program, or what it's called) under lots of press because of the death threats from muslims."

so I guess I can confirm what WolverineDK is saying.

edit: just wanted to point out that this is what I belive the text is saying.. please correct me if I'm wrong ^:^
Babu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folketing

The Folketing, or Folketinget, is the name of the national parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament) of Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark). It literally means the People's Ting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_%28assembly%29) - that is, the people's governing assembly.

and "Det Radikale Venstre" is a political party working on the left side, and not on the right wing side like "Venstre" who is at power with Anders Fogh Rasmussen.

And Alchy: Don´t worry I am not attacking you, we are only having a heated discussion :)

And Babu you are almost correct, Naser Kader is too shakened up to stand public on tv , and yes he has to go undercover (under jorden). even though "under jorden" means underground. And it means, that he is hiding, and the police probably protecting him in some ways, or another.

[babu]

yeah I could translate folketing to swedish/english.. but as it's a name and not a word I didn't write it in english. though I wasn't 100% sure exactly what it was so I guessed it was some political party (if that's the right word.. not to good with political terms in english ^^)

[WolverineDK]

yeah I could translate folketing to swedish/english.. but as it's a name and not a word I didn't write it in english. though I wasn't 100% sure exactly what it was so I guessed it was some political party (if that's the right word.. not to good with political terms in english ^^)
Well a political party is Danish Peoples Party (Dansk Folke Parti) on the extreme right . So the difference is easy, now since we both know what we are talking about, since Landstinget is also a name even though we use them as nouns, since they are really nouns. But enough of that, and Abu Laban , and Ahmed Akkari has been arrested this evening :D And those two are in interrogation by the Danish police :)

Hmmm is Riksdagen the word I could use for the Folketinget in Sweden ? or am I in the hay right now ?

Since Folketinget is the place where the government is, and the opposition to the government.

And the Danish government are at Christiansborg in Copenhagen.

[babu]

Hmmm is Riksdagen the word I could use for the Folketinget in Sweden ? or am I in the hay right now ?


hm.. yeah I think so http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/images/smilies/102.gif

[WolverineDK]

strange things happens, and bites again in the behind of the Danes, you know, the persons who got caught after the failed German terror train bombing ?

They are claiming it were the 12 drawings that was the case , why they wanted to bomb the German trains. And the only reason is, that Germany showed the pictures....

Thoughts are tollfree.

[WolverineDK]

Before all Alchy goes up and shouts stupid stuff and doubts my language one more time, then I want to say http://www.defendingdenmark.com/ has made a video the Arabic world has seen. And don´t worry Alchy the sites language is ENGLISH !

[WolverineDK]

The Muslim Faith society has been making a private court case at JP earlier , and JP were acquitted of all charges at Aarhus byret (court house in Aarhus, but the word means Aarhus citycourt). And now they want to appeal the case to Landsretten (word means land/country court). And well perhaps they will appeal the supreme court too, if they loose at the "landsretten". Oh well that was the latest news from this now quite boring case.

[WolverineDK]

the state attorney in Denmark , has just said, that the emams, haven´t broken any punisheable laws. So now the islamic faith society, has just said that they would go down to those countries again. If some news paper prints some new drawings of the prophet Mohammed. So I think, yeah sure "you" can do it again. But I don´t think "we"(the Danes) will be so happy again afterwards. And will let you in again in "the wonderful democracy" known as Denmark.

[WolverineDK]

Syria will pay Norway 8 million kroner for the damages back at the crisis , but Denmark is still looking for their money for the damages.

http://ekstrabladet.dk/nyheder/politik/article252863.ece

And the Danes are paying the damages done by the fuckers, over the tax. But Peer Stig Møller is promising, that the countries who destroyed the Danish embassies are going to pay. But I doubt it anyway. And Abu Laban died of lung cancer the 1. of February.

[WolverineDK]

Even some strange news as ussual from this side of town. The terror case that is running right now in the court from Odense on Funen , where some are on trial for terror. Well some of the answers you got was this. It was the 12 pictures fault too, that they wanted to make a terror attack. Anyway the people are from Vollsmose. So it is no wonder.