Wouldn't It Have Been Cool If...

[Funkstar De Luxe]

Just another kinda pointless post. I thought It'd be cool if every one posted stuff that you would have liked to have happened but never did:

The Saturn could play MD games.
The Saturn emulator for the DC was real.
The DC was still going in Euro land.
Sony hadn't destroyed the soul of video gaming.

Tony

PS, must be video game related, no "if J Lo would sleep with me" ;)

[DCVision]

A memory upgrade for the DC would have been nice.
It would utilize the expansion port (more than just
the modem but including the modem)

This would have allowed for larger games I'm sure.
(I always hear someone say something about memory blah)

The DC is near perfect in every other way.

[Funkstar De Luxe]

The DC is near perfect in every other way.

Memory was fine I think, you can't complain about Shenmue :). I hear you about the expansion port though, modems and a karioke unit are far from exciting.

Tony

[DCVision]

I don't have any personal problem with the amount of RAM the DC has... but I think had it the option to have memory upgraded... or expanded... that you could easily have any game out currently on GC or PS2 running on the DC just as fine if not better.

(we're not going to get into the xbox subject here ;)

[Greatsaintlouis]

Well technically, there's nothing the PS2 can do that the DC can't, and in fact, some games actually look and play far superior on DC, partially because the PS2 does no hardware antialiasing. Take a look at both Guilty Gear X and Dead or Alive 2, for example, for PS2 and DC, and you'll see them looking a lot prettier on Sega's console.

[SuperFunkNinjaYoshiiKun]

I'd be happy in a world where the 3D revolution never happened.

1994 - Nintendo release Super Famicom CD unit. Sony, in partnership with the big N, release the stand alone version. The MegaCD is going strong (no 32X). Squaresoft carry on making quality SNES-CD RPGs.

1996/97 - Nintendo release an all-in-one SNES/CD unit (Wondermega stylee) SNK NeoGeo is still selling well. NEC release a proper successor to the PCEngine.

2000 - The original Saturn is released, as the sprite pushing beast it always was, without the dual CPU/3D chip setup.

2001 - Nintendo release a CD based 32/64bit 2D based unit.

2004 - Were all playing quality 2D shooters, RPGs and platform games.

[DCVision]

Well technically, there's nothing the PS2 can do that the DC can't, and in fact, some games actually look and play far superior on DC, partially because the PS2 does no hardware antialiasing. Take a look at both Guilty Gear X and Dead or Alive 2, for example, for PS2 and DC, and you'll see them looking a lot prettier on Sega's console.

I can agree with that.

When I was playing Code Veronica for days then went to a buddies
house who had Code Veronica for his PS2... I was like... wow...
that looks like utter shit compared to the Dreamcast version
and just smiled happily as ever ;) haha...
:toimonster:

[Chief Chujo]

I wish..

Sony had included hardware AA and texture compression in the PS2.

Sega had hired decent voice actors for the english release of Shenmue.

Sega had not pulled the plug on the DC(yes yes I know it's "alive" in Japan but you know what I mean).

Suikoden 3 wasn't such a massive dissapointment.

The face mapping feature in Perfect Dark wasn't axed.

The 64DD was released earlier and worldwide thus giving it a chance to reach it's potential. Also giving me chance to own one.

The Amiga was still the powerhouse it use to be.

Those great dev's from the Amiga days(Bitmap Bros, Bullfrog, Team17) were still the powerhouses they use to be.

People would stop saying Sony destroyed the soul of videogaming.

[Chief Chujo]

Well technically, there's nothing the PS2 can do that the DC can't, and in fact, some games actually look and play far superior on DC, partially because the PS2 does no hardware antialiasing. Take a look at both Guilty Gear X and Dead or Alive 2, for example, for PS2 and DC, and you'll see them looking a lot prettier on Sega's console.

The lack of RAM and the relatively slow streaming speeds(800k or 800m ps, can't remember) would prevent it from doing large open areas wouldn't it?
Like those seen in the Jak, Ratchet and GTA series.

Jaggies have been pretty much a non-issue since the 2nd gen of PS2 games. Still wish there was hardware AA so the Jaggies had never been an issue.

Is it really fair to judge the power of a system via ports? GGX, DOA2 and RE:CV were all coded from the ground up for the dreamcast and were then ported to the PS2. Ports are never going to use the machine as well as a game coded from the ground up.
Example: MGS2: SOL for Xbox had slowdown in places the PS2 version didn't. Does that make the PS2 more powerfull then the Xbox?
I find it far more fair to compare similar games gen vs gen.
Example: Sega GT(2nd gen DC racer) vs GT3(2nd gen PS2 racer).
Both games are similar and both are around the same gen(Sega Gt was released 15 months after the DC, GT3 was released 13 months after the PS2) and both are made by 1st partys(therefore they should know plenty about the hardware).

[ServiceGames]

Well I guess where we differ is that I think a port should atleast look as good as the original. How can you port it to another console and have it look worse and play worse. Oh and Sega is no longer a 1st party to anyone.

[Johnny]

Sony hadn't destroyed the soul of video

I don't think Sony is that big monster most people think. I know i collect mostly PS1, PS2, but i never was and never will be a Sony Fanboy

Nobody criticizes Nintendo for their tactics when the NES had all games by contract, not letting the better Master System and even Game Gear to have succesful franchises.

Stil, those systems were succesful in Brazil / Europe.

I know SCEA is kinda stupid blocking releases of games like Puyo Puyo Fever and other 2D titles, but SCEJ isn't that stupid

Anyway, here are my additions:

- The Master System ruled the NES :axe:
- Sega CD / 32X had better support = better games
- Sega didn't drop the DC
- PS2 with more ram and FSAA by hardware

[Chief Chujo]

Well I guess where we differ is that I think a port should atleast look as good as the original. How can you port it to another console and have it look worse and play worse. Oh and Sega is no longer a 1st party to anyone.

I completley agree with you but I believe it says a lot more about the dev's then the hardware.
I just do not think it is fair to compare the power of 2 systems using a game that is coded from the ground up for one of them. It's an unfair advantage.

Sega were a 1st party when Sega GT came out.

[DCVision]

Ah....

Hail to the Dreamcast, it rules all!
:prayer:

PS2 can take a hike ;) haha

[DCVision]

Well I guess where we differ is that I think a port should atleast look as good as the original. How can you port it to another console and have it look worse and play worse. Oh and Sega is no longer a 1st party to anyone.

I completley agree with you but I believe it says a lot more about the dev's then the hardware.
I just do not think it is fair to compare the power of 2 systems using a game that is coded from the ground up for one of them. It's an unfair advantage.

Sega were a 1st party when Sega GT came out.

True... but how the hell can you do it.

How can you take an older game from an older system, port it to a NEW system and have WORSE graphics than before?
(Doesn't that sort of take back the whole point of a new system? better , faster.... umm.. yea?

ok.. I give
:Hangman:

;)

[Johnny]

Sometimes the Team that ported did a bad job. Example?

Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit 2.

They did the game for PS2 and ported to Xbox and Gamecube. What happened? PS2 game is the best one, runs flawlessly. The Xbox and Gamecube version have slowdowns, car control is far too floaty and unresponsive.

A part of the Gamespy Review of the X-Box version:

"Technically speaking, the Xbox version of Hot Pursuit 2 is a train wreck. All the special effects that make the PlayStation 2 version look so sharp -- like volumetric fogging and excellent lighting -- are completely absent. Gone are the sandstorms that would completely blind you or the way the cars glow with yellow light as you drive past large fires. The textures are incredibly blurry and the colors are washed-out and bland. Despite the sacrifices made on the technical end of things, the game can get quite jumpy when there are several cars onscreen at once. This drastically undermines the game's sense of speed -- one of its major selling points. "

And we all know Xbox is way more powerful than PS2.

Multi-platform will always end up on this discussion :toimonster:

PS: I'm not protecting PS2. I'm just saying it can happen vice-versa :smt023

[DCVision]

That's very true :)

However.... do you really think if that... let's say... Resident Evil Code Veronica would actually be better/ look better on the PS2 instead of the DC had it been coded ground up on the PS2?

but I believe the whole porting thing.. it just blows me away you can take a 2 year old game and make it look worse on a newer console.

Even though ports can have problems.... how should this affect graphics? So far... every single port I've seen on the PS2 looks like crap compared to the DC (of with any luck on-par)

Don't get me wrong... some people can port lazy ass around... but to say every single port is going to look worse than the originals because of bad porting? that seems a little odd to me.

and has anyone played the ps2 version of Virtua Tennis? *or whatever it's called for the PS2?* That is truly terrible. The graphics are EXTREMELY edgy and the whole game is slow / plays like crap.

Things I like about the PS2:

Burnout 2
GTA III
Vice City
Max Payne

and that's it....

I feel that every one of those games could be done on the DC with the same quality. It may have slower loading times due to memory or whatnot... but the gameplay and graphics are still going to be there.

[Yakumo]

Even though ports can have problems.... how should this affect graphics? So far... every single port I've seen on the PS2 looks like crap compared to the DC (of with any luck on-par)


DC Vision does have a point. There isn't one PS2 conversion of a Dreamcast games that even looks on par as the DC version, never mind better. Can't see why they are always shite on the PS2. Are Sega doing crappy ports just to prove the DC was better? Probably not since it would lose them money. So why are all the ports crap? Shenmue 2 on the XBOX also has a few issues that it couldn't solve such as the Dreamcast's transparencies which had to be removed or completely changed for the Xbox version. Over all though the XBox Shenmue 2 does look nicer than the DC but not that much. maybe the PS2 just isn't capable of a port of a DC game. Who knows. :smt027

Yakumo

[Johnny]

Well the biggest problems of PS2 are: Lack of Ram and Full Screen Anti-Aliasing not made by hardware.

Instead, you have to code on the software to use CPU power.

I'm not saying SEGA does shit ports to prove the DC is best. I'm just saying comparing multi-platform games does not make justice. The Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit 2 is a good example

How a game can look amazing (on the whole graphics department), with no slowdowns, with Anti-Aliasing, 60fps, on the PS2 and the same game look terrible on the Xbox, with slowdowns , blurry textures, on the Xbox, a way more powerful machine? :smt017

Another example is Sonic Heroes. The best version is the Gamecube, with the Xbox having texture problems, and lots of bugs (sometimes the characters don't have shadows). Won't even comment the PS2 job. They probably did that in a hurry. At worst it had to look like the one of Sonic Adventure games, adding aliasing :smt043

[SilverBolt]

I think it would have been cool if the n64 had been a cd based system rather then the old cart style, i think way more company's would have signed on to develop for the n64

[Funkstar De Luxe]

I think it would have been cool if the n64 had been a cd based system rather then the old cart style, i think way more company's would have signed on to develop for the n64

Ditto

[sininc]

I wish..

The Amiga was still the powerhouse it use to be.

Those great dev's from the Amiga days(Bitmap Bros, Bullfrog, Team17) were still the powerhouses they use to be.

People would stop saying Sony destroyed the soul of videogaming.

Defo.

I don`t think many realise how big an affect the Amiga had on gaming.

[TheDeathcoaster]

1)N64 had CD based Media
2)Nintendo dropped 64 support earlier and got the Gamecube out back when the PS2 came out
3)They put a backlight in original GBA's and thusly the GBA SP was never released
4)Capcom re-made Resident Evil 2 for the Gamecube
5)Squaresoft had stayed with Nintendo
6)Castlevania 64/LoD were not released as Castlevania games
7)Sega Europe never screwed up the Dreamcast in europe
8)Same as above but with Nintendo and the Gamecube
9)Valve got Half-life 2 and CS: CZ Out earlier ^_^
10)Capcom released Biohazard 1.5 as a Bonus Disc in the Biohazard Collectors boxed set for Gamecube

There are more, but thats the top 10 ^_^ (not in sequential order ^_^)

[Funkstar De Luxe]

Sony did do something to video games... But perhaps I exaggerated a little :) I remember the days when playing video games was geeky and sad. Sony changed that completely. I miss those days.

Tony

[Funkstar De Luxe]

Don't you remember when every second shop wasn't filled with PSx/Ps2 titles?

[AntiPasta]

There isn't one PS2 conversion of a Dreamcast games that even looks on par as the DC version, never mind better

Funny you mention that, I finished Rez for PS2 this morning and I couldnt notice *anything* looking worse than the DC version. (but I havent played that in a while)

Anyway, wouldnt it be cool if...
...the 32X was succesful, went to live on for several years, got 100+ games released and was ultimately merged with the Saturn product line (so the Saturn would be 32X compatible).

...the PSX would miserably fail at launch, Sony not deciding to bring the system to the west, it dying after 2 years and becoming a very sought-after collectors item while the Saturn, N64, M2, PCFX or Pippin went to dominate the market?

...the Gameboy would have been crushed by the Lynx and Atari would dominate the handheld market only for Tiger to come in with its Game.com (with a *good* screen) and take over?

...Sega through some weird brainstorming session invented the cellphone and dominated the face of the earth with game-playing cellphones :smt033

[Yakumo]

...Sega through some weird brainstorming session invented the cellphone and dominated the face of the earth with game-playing cellphones

Err, they've already done that, sort of :smt033 Played quite a few Sega games on the phone now. The latest phones have some really good hardware letting you play games as good as a Super Famicom. And if you have a phone with good 3D aplet then you can play Sega's Power Smash _(virtua tennis), Ridge Racer and stuff like that.

Yakumo

[Funkstar De Luxe]

[quote]
...the Gameboy would have been crushed by the Lynx and Atari would dominate the handheld market only for Tiger to come in with its Game.com (with a *good* screen) and take over?


Woo! Atari! *Old Jaguar fan*

[Alien Workshop]

I'd be happy in a world where the 3D revolution never happened.

1994 - Nintendo release Super Famicom CD unit. Sony, in partnership with the big N, release the stand alone version. The MegaCD is going strong (no 32X). Squaresoft carry on making quality SNES-CD RPGs.

1996/97 - Nintendo release an all-in-one SNES/CD unit (Wondermega stylee) SNK NeoGeo is still selling well. NEC release a proper successor to the PCEngine.

2000 - The original Saturn is released, as the sprite pushing beast it always was, without the dual CPU/3D chip setup.

2001 - Nintendo release a CD based 32/64bit 2D based unit.

2004 - Were all playing quality 2D shooters, RPGs and platform games.

Perfection :smt023

[the_steadster]

I'm probably the only one, but i would love a Nintendo/Sega merger. That really would make the greatest consoel ever, with fenomenal games - think of all the franchises on both nintendo and sega systems - Really would be great. dreamcube anyone?

[Greatsaintlouis]

4)Capcom re-made Resident Evil 2 for the Gamecube

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought they did remake RE2 for the GC? Or did you mean 1.5?

[Alien Workshop]

4)Capcom re-made Resident Evil 2 for the Gamecube

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought they did remake RE2 for the GC? Or did you mean 1.5?

I think when he said re-make, he meant like what Capcom did with RE1 for the GC.

[Nintendomad]

I think it's just bollocks to say the dreamcast is as powerful as the PS2,it simply isn't,the ps2 can push more polygons period and the production values of most ps2 games blow the Dreamcast's out of the water.This was a major problem for the Dreamcast with games looking as if they had been hacked up in a few months,with none of the overall slickness and smoothness of presentation the ps2 games have.

Dynamite Deka 2 is a big example of this as well as all the companies who ported games to the console and never used an inch of it's power.

The Dreamcast had some amazing games with great graphics but they were not nearly as slick as some of this latest batch of Ps2 games.Rez on the Ps2 also runs far better than the dc version and with more polygons.

The Dc was one of my favourite consoles but half the time it was poorly treated by Sega themselves as well,releasing sub standard crap with no polish or sheen that a firstparty title should have and that Sega are more than capable of delivering.As for textures,the dreamcast can do alot of textures nicer and smoother than the ps2 but the lack of polygons in some of the models made this redundant sometimes,only companies prepared to put their full weight behind the console got the best results from the capable hardware.

Now that people know how to develop for the ps2 though,it simply is a more capable machine,look at titles such as Killzone, and Gran Turismo 4,these games wold never be possible on the dreamcast.It just doesn't have the muscle.I'm not dissing the dreamcast,it is a great peice of hardware that had some of the greatest games ever developed,but it isn't as powerful as the Playstation 2,it does not have as good a libary of games either,the ps2 has an awesome catologue now and not to get one is to shoot yourself in the foot and miss out on some of the greatest games ever.

[TheDeathcoaster]

4)Capcom re-made Resident Evil 2 for the Gamecube

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought they did remake RE2 for the GC? Or did you mean 1.5?

I think when he said re-make, he meant like what Capcom did with RE1 for the GC.

That is exactly what I meant :smt023 Though I would have also loved to see 1.5 released as a bonus disc with teh RE2 on the GC. Would have been sweet ^_^

[Alien Workshop]

I think it's just bollocks to say the dreamcast is as powerful as the PS2,it simply isn't,the ps2 can push more polygons period and the production values of most ps2 games blow the Dreamcast's out of the water.This was a major problem for the Dreamcast with games looking as if they had been hacked up in a few months,with none of the overall slickness and smoothness of presentation the ps2 games have.

Dynamite Deka 2 is a big example of this as well as all the companies who ported games to the console and never used an inch of it's power.

The Dreamcast had some amazing games with great graphics but they were not nearly as slick as some of this latest batch of Ps2 games.Rez on the Ps2 also runs far better than the dc version and with more polygons.

The Dc was one of my favourite consoles but half the time it was poorly treated by Sega themselves as well,releasing sub standard crap with no polish or sheen that a firstparty title should have and that Sega are more than capable of delivering.As for textures,the dreamcast can do alot of textures nicer and smoother than the ps2 but the lack of polygons in some of the models made this redundant sometimes,only companies prepared to put their full weight behind the console got the best results from the capable hardware.

Now that people know how to develop for the ps2 though,it simply is a more capable machine,look at titles such as Killzone, and Gran Turismo 4,these games wold never be possible on the dreamcast.It just doesn't have the muscle.I'm not dissing the dreamcast,it is a great peice of hardware that had some of the greatest games ever developed,but it isn't as powerful as the Playstation 2,it does not have as good a libary of games either,the ps2 has an awesome catologue now and not to get one is to shoot yourself in the foot and miss out on some of the greatest games ever.

I think you are sadly mistaken when you say the PS2 is a better games machine than the DC. Just because the PS2 is "more powerful" than the DC that does not make it better. Also, having more games does not make it better either. Sure, the PS2 has a lot of games, but most of them are crap. The DC has a stronger library when it comes to good games. In fact, I buy more DC games than I do PS2 games. Saying system A is better than system B because of graphical capability is fanboyish.

[Fonzie]

I'd be happy in a world where the 3D revolution never happened.

1994 - Nintendo release Super Famicom CD unit. Sony, in partnership with the big N, release the stand alone version. The MegaCD is going strong (no 32X). Squaresoft carry on making quality SNES-CD RPGs.

1996/97 - Nintendo release an all-in-one SNES/CD unit (Wondermega stylee) SNK NeoGeo is still selling well. NEC release a proper successor to the PCEngine.

2000 - The original Saturn is released, as the sprite pushing beast it always was, without the dual CPU/3D chip setup.

2001 - Nintendo release a CD based 32/64bit 2D based unit.

2004 - Were all playing quality 2D shooters, RPGs and platform games.

1997------------->
Would be better if sega released a new segacd:
2*MC68060 @ 35mhz 2*(> 50 mips > 8k of cache > 32 bits > 3 instructions per clock).
A 4x cd reader.
A 32K 640*480 framebuffer + mixing with genny video.
A 16channel FM & 8channel PCM.
A 4Mo dualchannel ram bettween the genny & segacd :smt033 (Can't imagine the price of these ram in 1997).

And a marvelous collection of 2D fighting games!.
--------------------->

I would not say that Sony ruined the video gaming.
I will just say that Sony started the infamous run to the 3D.
Maybe because the psx wasn't *really* designed for 2D and Sony thinked that the only method to win is to blame the 2d and promote the 3D.

[Divine Evolution]

Here I come far after it's all been said, but another great example of the inferiority of ANY port when it's not recoded from the roots is Dracula X/Castlevania:SotN.
In the Saturn and it's 2D capabilities thread someone mentioned their dissappointment in the SS port.
In this case you have a machine that handles 2D far better rendering a far inferior port of a 2D game. Bad coding.
Any mere port of a game will always be playing catch-up through the architecture of another machine (it's practically a game-specific emulator).
~Krelian

[CJPC]

I think we can all agree (and if not your getting run outta town) that we ALL wish that Sega never GAVE IN and dropped the Dreamcast, and i just HOPE microsoft will drop out, sega will come to its senses, and secretly work on a new kick-ass system, that would take everything by storm!!! (And somethign that was EASY to develop on, no screwey double-cpus!)

[cahaz]

I think we can all agree (and if not your getting run outta town) that we ALL wish that Sega never GAVE IN and dropped the Dreamcast, and i just HOPE microsoft will drop out, sega will come to its senses, and secretly work on a new kick-ass system, that would take everything by storm!!! (And somethign that was EASY to develop on, no screwey double-cpus!)
don't forget , snk will merge with sega and makes allot of good 2d games on the new kick-ass sega machine! a man can dream , can't he?

[Nintendomad]

I think it's just bollocks to say the dreamcast is as powerful as the PS2,it simply isn't,the ps2 can push more polygons period and the production values of most ps2 games blow the Dreamcast's out of the water.This was a major problem for the Dreamcast with games looking as if they had been hacked up in a few months,with none of the overall slickness and smoothness of presentation the ps2 games have.

Dynamite Deka 2 is a big example of this as well as all the companies who ported games to the console and never used an inch of it's power.

The Dreamcast had some amazing games with great graphics but they were not nearly as slick as some of this latest batch of Ps2 games.Rez on the Ps2 also runs far better than the dc version and with more polygons.

The Dc was one of my favourite consoles but half the time it was poorly treated by Sega themselves as well,releasing sub standard crap with no polish or sheen that a firstparty title should have and that Sega are more than capable of delivering.As for textures,the dreamcast can do alot of textures nicer and smoother than the ps2 but the lack of polygons in some of the models made this redundant sometimes,only companies prepared to put their full weight behind the console got the best results from the capable hardware.

Now that people know how to develop for the ps2 though,it simply is a more capable machine,look at titles such as Killzone, and Gran Turismo 4,these games wold never be possible on the dreamcast.It just doesn't have the muscle.I'm not dissing the dreamcast,it is a great peice of hardware that had some of the greatest games ever developed,but it isn't as powerful as the Playstation 2,it does not have as good a libary of games either,the ps2 has an awesome catologue now and not to get one is to shoot yourself in the foot and miss out on some of the greatest games ever.

I think you are sadly mistaken when you say the PS2 is a better games machine than the DC. Just because the PS2 is "more powerful" than the DC that does not make it better. Also, having more games does not make it better either. Sure, the PS2 has a lot of games, but most of them are crap. The DC has a stronger library when it comes to good games. In fact, I buy more DC games than I do PS2 games. Saying system A is better than system B because of graphical capability is fanboyish.

And wgere once did I say that the PS" was better than the Dreamcast???I said it was more powerful,not a better machine,you obviously did not read what I said.

You just jumped to the conclusion that because I was saying it is more powerful,I was saying it was better.Who's being fanboyish now???

[Paulo]

And wgere once did I say that the PS" was better than the Dreamcast???I said it was more powerful,not a better machine,you obviously did not read what I said.

You just jumped to the conclusion that because I was saying it is more powerful,I was saying it was better.Who's being fanboyish now???

Erm you said...

"but it isn't as powerful as the Playstation 2,it does not have as good a libary of games either,the ps2 has an awesome catologue"

[Alien Workshop]

And wgere once did I say that the PS" was better than the Dreamcast???I said it was more powerful,not a better machine,you obviously did not read what I said.

You just jumped to the conclusion that because I was saying it is more powerful,I was saying it was better.Who's being fanboyish now???

Erm you said...

"but it isn't as powerful as the Playstation 2,it does not have as good a libary of games either,the ps2 has an awesome catologue"

My ponit exactly!

[Alchy]

Rez on the Ps2 also runs far better than the dc version and with more polygons.Conversations about system x being "better" than system y are redundant, as they're entirely subjective. One thing I that can be said certainly though, is that Rez on the DC runs in a higher resolution than on the PS2.

[Johnny]

The discussion of what system is more powerful is kinda vague.

For example, the PS2 is a powerful system, but it lacks two important things. RAM and Anti-Aliasing (by hardware).

So, it's impressive to see games like Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, Killzone and Gran Turismo 4.

Gran Turismo 4, by the way, does not look like a PS2 game. I would say it even surpass Xbox quality. How they manage to do that is beyond me. Fully 3D crowds, 500+ cars (with tons of tuning options), 100 tracks (at least, including reverse), photo mode, online game,....

:prayer:

[WolverineDK]

I'd be happy in a world where the 3D revolution never happened.

1994 - Nintendo release Super Famicom CD unit. Sony, in partnership with the big N, release the stand alone version. The MegaCD is going strong (no 32X). Squaresoft carry on making quality SNES-CD RPGs.

1996/97 - Nintendo release an all-in-one SNES/CD unit (Wondermega stylee) SNK NeoGeo is still selling well. NEC release a proper successor to the PCEngine.

2000 - The original Saturn is released, as the sprite pushing beast it always was, without the dual CPU/3D chip setup.



i must agree although it would have been cool with 32x also

i agree although it would have been cool with 32x
2001 - Nintendo release a CD based 32/64bit 2D based unit.

2004 - Were all playing quality 2D shooters, RPGs and platform games.

[WolverineDK]

There isn't one PS2 conversion of a Dreamcast games that even looks on par as the DC version, never mind better

Funny you mention that, I finished Rez for PS2 this morning and I couldnt notice *anything* looking worse than the DC version. (but I havent played that in a while)

Anyway, wouldnt it be cool if...
...the 32X was succesful, went to live on for several years, got 100+ games released and was ultimately merged with the Saturn product line (so the Saturn would be 32X compatible).

...the PSX would miserably fail at launch, Sony not deciding to bring the system to the west, it dying after 2 years and becoming a very sought-after collectors item while the Saturn, N64, M2, PCFX or Pippin went to dominate the market?

...the Gameboy would have been crushed by the Lynx and Atari would dominate the handheld market only for Tiger to come in with its Game.com (with a *good* screen) and take over?

...Sega through some weird brainstorming session invented the cellphone and dominated the face of the earth with game-playing cellphones :smt033

i must agree with that too but not that gameboy was crashed

[WolverineDK]

so i am agreeing with two thing i have qouted

but i do like the PSX :smt040

[id-republix]

There isn't one PS2 conversion of a Dreamcast games that even looks on par as the DC version, never mind better

Funny you mention that, I finished Rez for PS2 this morning and I couldnt notice *anything* looking worse than the DC version. (but I havent played that in a while)

Anyway, wouldnt it be cool if...
...the 32X was succesful, went to live on for several years, got 100+ games released and was ultimately merged with the Saturn product line (so the Saturn would be 32X compatible).

...the PSX would miserably fail at launch, Sony not deciding to bring the system to the west, it dying after 2 years and becoming a very sought-after collectors item while the Saturn, N64, M2, PCFX or Pippin went to dominate the market?

...the Gameboy would have been crushed by the Lynx and Atari would dominate the handheld market only for Tiger to come in with its Game.com (with a *good* screen) and take over?

...Sega through some weird brainstorming session invented the cellphone and dominated the face of the earth with game-playing cellphones :smt033

REZ isn't the worst example of an inferior DC-PS2 port - but -Play REZ DC through VGA. Suddenly all will become clear.

I saw noticeable differences even through S-Video; VGA would make it more glaring.

Nintendomad - you are being BEYOND unreasonable with your attacks on the DC's games, library and production values. You're comparing a console that was supported per se for barely over a year and its entire library to that of a console that has been out for at least nearly FOUR. You yourself say the production values of DC games don't match *recent* PS2 games - had the DC still been alive to this day and a competitor, your argument would make sense. As it stands it's nonsensical to the hilt.

Compare games and their 'production values' etc with relevance to time period in mind. DC launch titles, for example, blew PS2s out of the water without question.

Also your accusations of SEGA treating the DC poorly are flawed severely as well. SOA and SOE barely had a year to support the machine - and in the time peirod they did, an absolutely stunning and UNIQUE library took shape. Headhunter - Shenmue II - REZ - Toy Commander - Space Channel 5 - Skies of Arcadia - Phantays Star On-Line ver. 2 and these are just a handful, and a handful of the 1st/1.5 party stuff at that- all of these are stunning games to this day and furthermore had mind-blowing production values for the day. And had the DC live don and enjoyed success, there is no doubt that its games would enjoy and meet the high standards production-values-wise and otherwise of today.

[Nintendomad]

Right so because I said the Ps2 is more powerful,which it is,and it has a great catologue of games...it then means it is a better system?

That is not what I meant,they both have great plusses and minuses and one is not better than the other.Just becuase I say it is more powerful,it does not mean I am saying it is better and just because I say it has an awesome catologue,does not mean I am saying the dreamcast doesn't.It does!!

The ps2 has...Contra,Castlevanis,Gradius,Gran Turismo,initial D,Vf4,Shinobi,Kunoichi, Virtual on Marz,R type final,Psyvariar and many more...are you disagreeing this is not a great line up???

The DC has Ecco,VF3,Powerstone,Shenmue(my favourite game,well one of them)Shenmue 2,Jet Set Radio,Power Smash,space channel 5,samba de amigo,sonic adventure and many more,I do not hesitate in calling this awesome either and I am the guy who sticks up for the Dc everywhere I go,and most of my mates call it Dreamgash,the bastards.

So I say this in a fun way as you would down the pub...Get to fuck AW,I'm not slagging your favourite console,I love it too,so get of my case,I am saying that the Ps2 is more powerful and it shows now as the years go on,but the games libaries are equally good now and you are kidding yourself thinking that Sony's lineup is in any way inferior,it is just different.The dreamcast still started off all this originality Sony and co now emulate and Sega are the main provider of some of the ps2's greatest games.I love the Dreamcast but can admit that it has it's failings's as the years go on,it doesn't make it any better or any worse than the ps2,it is just a great console which has one of the greatest and most original games lineups ever,but to miss out on another console which has an equally good libary of games would just be shooting myself in the foot.

Oh an ID republix,I'm not being unfair on Sega,they had the capabilty to do t as they showed with Jet set,Shenmue,Headhunter etc...it was their marketing that was abysmal and if you think otherwise,you are wrong point,otherwise it would still be here.I am not saying it was Sega anyway,most of the third party stuff was dross,the Sega stuff that was out was amazing.Sega showed how to use the machine but no one else was intrested in throwing large production money behind titles because of Sega's failure to market and sell the console in numbers.If you disagree,show me the facts behind your argument and then I'll maybe see it in a different light. want real facts and then I'll show you the written facts I have,sales numbers,retailers reports etc...I even have interviews with Sega's head honchos saying they did not market the console as well as they could have.

[id-republix]

Oh yeah, thee's no doubt SEGA''s amrketing went down the toilet and strayed there after the 16-bit era.


I don't agree with your claims thrashing the DC's power. Why do you insisit on conmparing ages-old DC releases to recent, Hollywood-like-budget PS2 releases? Show a little sense here. Again you are comparing games that are YEARS old now to recent PS2 games - nonsensical, as I said, to the hilt. Your claims that third-party materail was dross is also false - Soul Calibur - - DOA2 - Grandia II - RE : CV - Record of Lodoss War - Starlancer - SF3 Third Strike are just a few that trash that notion. In the time frame that the DC lived it churned otu a far higher count of quality third -party titles than the PS2 did.



Had the DC been allowed a chance and enjoyed success and remaiend a viable player to this day, we would have seen a lot more oit of the DC - just as we have seen a lot more out of the PS2 since 2000. Saying that we can see the Ps2 is moere powerful as the years go by is nonsensical - the years are only going by for the PS2, Nintendomad, not the DC. There si no doubt tthat we were only beginning to see what raw poertr developers could pull out of the DC, as Suzuki-san himself stated post-Shenmue II abd Propellor Arena that thye were only starting to get to grips with maximising the DC's potential.

If the PS2, with its lack of RAM and hardware anti-aliasing and initial difficulty to program for has had its potential pulled out by devcos as we see it today, there is no doubt that the DC would have seen the same and proven siginificant competition for the PS2.

[Metal_4evr]

Do we really need to pull out the tech specs?... The PS2 is simply a more powerful machine for better or for worse. The DC would have reached the end of it's lifespan by now anyways if it were not for its premature death.

[Tachikoma]

Bored now! :toimonster:

[Kron]

You use R-Type Final and Virtual on Marz as examples of "great" games :smt043

Not even remotely close.

[Nintendomad]

Yeah I'm not gonna keep this argument going,it is getting kinda boring.

I love the Dreamcast and I like the ps2 as well,that's my point.I just am pissed off with people saying the games are shit for either one that's all.

I would have loved....

The Nintendo 64DD to be a massmarket success and really pushed the boundaries of gaming.

The Sega Dreamcast to have got an HDD or a zip drive for online games.

The Sega Saturn to have had the success it deserved with it's great games line up.

Shenmue for the Saturn!!

and lastly for Donkey Konga's graphics to have looked more like Namco had made them and not some guy high on lsd with a copy of Photoshop.(shittest Nintendo game presentation I have ever seen.)

[beavischrist]

I'm probably the only one, but i would love a Nintendo/Sega merger. That really would make the greatest consoel ever, with fenomenal games - think of all the franchises on both nintendo and sega systems - Really would be great. dreamcube anyone?

They may say you're a dreamer, but you're not the only one.

[Yakumo]

This Dreamcast Vs PlayStation 2 battle is so tiresome now. Here are the hard facts like them or not.

First gen Dreamcast games blew away first gen PS2 games.

Later PS2 games made around the same time as stuff like Shenmue II were about on par or slightly better looking than DC games but not much.

The PS2 IS more powerful than the Dreamcast.

The PS2 CAN do things that a Dreamcast would have trouble with. Saying that though, the Dreamcast can do things that a PS2 can't. Put it one way, Shenmue 2 would not be possible on a PS2 due to it not having enough memory.

Dreamcast died because of Shite marketing in Europe and US. Japan wasn't as bad but still could have been better. Partly because Sega just didn't have the cash to back a marketing campaign like Sony.

All games ported from Dreamcast to PS2 are inferior to the original DC version. Simply because they are ports. Apart from Dead Or Alive 2 which is still better on the Dreamcast due to the PS2's way of handling polygons. Don't know how to explain it but DOA2 on the PS2 looks shimmery were as the DC version looks more solid.

Games such as Virtual On Mars are not as good as the original titles simply because they aren't. The Arcade version isn't as good. This has nothing to do with PlayStation 2 what so ever. If Virtua On Mars was on the Dreamcast it would still be just as crap.

That's it on the DC Vs PS2 fight. Anymore posts arguing about it like little school boys will be deleted. ASSEMbler forum is about gamers getting together and talking about games NOT talking about which system is best.

Yakumo

[SuperFunkNinjaYoshiiKun]

What Yakumo said.....

Oh, and I also wish the DD64 was a worldwide release and a success too. Oh well....

[id-republix]

Yes, agreed. As someone stated earlier up the whole 'power' discussion is a vague one.

As for staying on topic, I guess I really only wish SEGA and Ninty hadn't grown so complacent and foolhardy post -16 bit era and basically forfeited the market. Not for the sake of crushing SONY, mind you, but for the sake of having today what could and should have been.

[Metal_4evr]

I agree on that point. Sony gained their foothold because they made it cheap and easy for 3rd parties to make games and Nintendo just sat their trying to keep their old ideals alive, instead of evolving with the market. Sega was also fairly nieve when originally developing the Saturn (making it 2d power-house) instead of following the market (which was looking for 3d games).

[GaijinPunch]

Put it one way, Shenmue 2 would not be possible on a PS2 due to it not having enough memory.
I think this is a little misleading. A PS2 port of Shenmue/Shenmue II woulld look like a glimmering turd. Redone from the ground up and I think it would've been fine.

[Yakumo]

Even if Shenmue II was programmed for the PS2 from scratch it still wouldn't look as good as the DC version because of it's poor texture data bus. It's well documented on a few sites about this weakness that the PS2 suffers from. My brother who is a games designer also agrees that it would not be possible to re-create Shenmue II on the PS2. The game could be done with not as many textures but that's not the point. The point being that it couldn't do the game the same as the Dreamcast. Just like the Dreamcast couldn't do a perfect conversion of the PS2 game Metal Gear 3 if built from scratch but it certainly could do the game by reducing the amount of lighting effects and polygons.

Yakumo