Megadrive SVP games

[StarWolf]

I was reading the artice on the 32X (http://www.eidolons-inn.net/segabase/SegaBase-32X.html) over at Sega Base, and it mentions the SVP chip.

Although Virtua Racing was the only SVP chip game released, Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA were also in development, apparently.

So, does anyone know how far they got with Daytona or VF? It'd be pretty impressive to see these running on a MD. Any old magazine screen shots or anything out there in the world?

[Yakumo]

daytona and VF were in development for the 32X. VF actually came out and there are very early shots of what's said to be the 32X version but nothing on the Mega Drive.

yakumo

[Johnny]

I remember reading something about a Daytona USA port to 32X on an old UK Sega Power magazine.

Actually, i promised to take pics of that mag some time ago. Gonna try to find it this week.

EDITED: I remember now that i already posted the pics. It's on the same topic i posted pics about early Gran Turismo 2000 pics.

[kingofthelobster]

I've been searching all around and have yet to turn up anything, so I figured I'd post this question of mine in a topic like this. Does anyone know the specs on the SVP processor? Was it actually designed for outputting polygon graphics or was it just a general purpose processor that was powerful enough to push some polys?

[socialdrone]

i have read that Star Wars Arcade might have been worked on as well. its also possible Wing War or Tecwar / Netmerc might have been planned or in development?....since they both use the sega model 1 board. virtua fighter 2 was released on the genesis, but it was more of a 2d street fighter knock off than anything else.


I've been searching all around and have yet to turn up anything, so I figured I'd post this question of mine in a topic like this. Does anyone know the specs on the SVP processor? Was it actually designed for outputting polygon graphics or was it just a general purpose processor that was powerful enough to push some polys?

the SVP is a Hitachi SH-1 32-bit risc processor, i think. the saturn has a sh1 chip, but not the 32x.

[kingofthelobster]

the SVP is a Hitachi SH-1 32-bit risc processor, i think. the saturn has a sh1 chip, but not the 32x.

The Saturn used dual SH-2's in conjunction with a single SH-1, the 32x used dual SH-2's as well.

[Yakumo]

I've been searching all around and have yet to turn up anything, so I figured I'd post this question of mine in a topic like this. Does anyone know the specs on the SVP processor? Was it actually designed for outputting polygon graphics or was it just a general purpose processor that was powerful enough to push some polys?
The specs are written on the back of the Japanese box to Virtual Racing. It says it can push up to 9000 polygons per second plus adds 12 channels of sound. I'm sure there's more to it but that's all it says on the back of the box.

Yakumo

[ccovell]

I read in the magazines back in the day that the SVP was merely a DSP, and not a RISC processor or co-processor.

Here are some specs I took off a site; don't know if it's accurate. Other sites say the SVP uses an SH-1; perhaps they're confusing it with the 32x.

Chip Command Type: DSP, 1 command, 1 clock
Speed / Instruction per second: 23MHz (23 mips)
ROM: I-ram (instruction RAM) 2048 bytes
Polygons per second 300-500 (16 colours) with 4 interrupts
RAM: D-RAM (optional installation)
Sound expansion: 2 channels PWM (pulse wave Modulation)
Data BUS bandwidth: internal / external 16 bits

[socialdrone]

I read in the magazines back in the day that the SVP was merely a DSP, and not a RISC processor or co-processor.

Here are some specs I took off a site; don't know if it's accurate. Other sites say the SVP uses an SH-1; perhaps they're confusing it with the 32x.

Chip Command Type: DSP, 1 command, 1 clock
Speed / Instruction per second: 23MHz (23 mips)
ROM: I-ram (instruction RAM) 2048 bytes
Polygons per second 300-500 (16 colours) with 4 interrupts
RAM: D-RAM (optional installation)
Sound expansion: 2 channels PWM (pulse wave Modulation)
Data BUS bandwidth: internal / external 16 bits


i read somewhere that in australia the SVP was marketed as the DSP.
also i found an old thread here, http://eidolon.dnsalias.net/ta/200201/messages/11696.html , which touches on the whole dsp vs risc issue.

personally i think the virtua racing cart might have been created to emulate/copy the model 1 board. in my opinion the SVP could be hitachi's attempt to make something like the NEC V60 to use with the genesis..be it sh-1, sh-2...or some thing else.

from what ive read, i take the main reason people have had trouble emulating the model 1 board is lack information on Fujitsu's TGP MB86233...which i think handles the 3d graphics.

and from the above link one of the reasons people (or at least one person) have had trouble emulating the genesis virtua racing is there is a lack of information reguarding the MPR-16420-T

so maybe its possible that the tgp mb86233 and the mpr-16420-t serve a similar function?




i also read somewhere that the model 1 and virtua racing was co-developed with General Electric Aerospace...who is now owned by Lockheed...that might be one of the reasons information on these chips are so scarce.

[RyanGamerGoneGrazy]

i read somewhere that in australia the SVP was marketed as the DSP.
also i found an old thread here, http://eidolon.dnsalias.net/ta/200201/messages/11696.html , which touches on the whole dsp vs risc issue.

personally i think the virtua racing cart might have been created to emulate/copy the model 1 board. in my opinion the SVP could be hitachi's attempt to make something like the NEC V60 to use with the genesis..be it sh-1, sh-2...or some thing else.

from what ive read, i take the main reason people have had trouble emulating the model 1 board is lack information on Fujitsu's TGP MB86233...which i think handles the 3d graphics.

and from the above link one of the reasons people (or at least one person) have had trouble emulating the genesis virtua racing is there is a lack of information reguarding the MPR-16420-T

so maybe its possible that the tgp mb86233 and the mpr-16420-t serve a similar function?




i also read somewhere that the model 1 and virtua racing was co-developed with General Electric Aerospace...who is now owned by Lockheed...that might be one of the reasons information on these chips are so scarce.

Did they not also have a hand in the creation of the chips for one of the proposed Dural systems?. or was that just a myth

[Anthaemia.]

Lockheed was involved with SOA's pitch for the Saturn follow-up, if memory serves me correctly. I'm not completely sure what the difference was between the Dural and Blackbelt designs (apart from one boasting 3DFX technology prior to that company's death), but what I do know is that - surprise, surprise! - SOJ had its own Katana system put into production instead of what promised to be superior hardware! Then again, unlike its predecessor, I doubt many people outside of PS2 fanboy circles had much to say against the final Dreamcast specification. They also provided the chipset for its Eclipse cartridge upgrade project, though I've heard conflicting stories regarding whether this technology ever made it to a working prototype stage as no games have been confirmed as being in development for it... so far, at least!

[Anyway, isn't this thread about unreleased SVP titles?]

Daytona USA was definitely in progress as the intended follow-up to Virtua Racing, but if there was also a conversion of Virtua Fighter on the cards it's odd that such a high profile game didn't get as much coverage - unless it was either cancelled very early or not good, that is! As with SCUD Race two generations later, it was a real shame that Wing War and Star Wars Arcade were never given proper home conversions, though the latter did show up on the 32X while the former was given a spiritual successor in the form of Wing Arms.

P.S. One thing I could never understand is why Sega never took advantage of the Saturn's processors, including the otherwise relatively unused SH1 chip, to give the console some well-needed backwards compatibility with their established 16-bit catalogue. Finally, as if you hadn't already noticed, does anybody else feel that the "Model" series of arcade boards were way ahead of their times? How early titles such as Virtua Fighter and Daytona were considered possible on the MegaDrive - albeit with some extra power - shows the pure ambition of Sega, even if later efforts like VF3 and SCUD Race would have been asking perhaps a little too much (which is quite an understatement, unless you believe that old "Genesis VF3" hoax from a few years back)!

[Fonzie]

Umm,

Afaik, VR's SVP chip isn't a SH1, and isn't a pure DSP.

From a discuss i had with a dev-friend (who worked a bit around SVP emulation):
The SVP really execute/draw full parts of the game.
For, exemple, the sega logo sequence (full animation, rotation) is 100% rulled by the SVP, the genesis just upload the rendered picture to VRAM and clear the framebuffer each frame.
I don't know about the other part of the game but I think the genesis just send the cars and camera coordinates to the SVP (certainely a few other things) and let the SVP calculate all (polys screen coordinates...) and the drawing.

He also told me that VirtuaRacing do not use any extra sound possibility (althought it is technicaly possible to add sound source from cartridge port)... strange.

I read somewhere that the SVP was initialy planned to host virtua racing AND let the possibility to be controlled from segacd for disc based games (cheaper).
Advantages were:
-Game cost reduction
-Adding 3D to the 2D (segacd rendered) with same fps.
-blabla :P

The actual cart cannot be controlled from segacd without HW modification (on the cart) so i think the idea was canned when the 32x idea came out.

[ASSEMbler]

I have a megadrive magazine with a real detailed article. If someone volunteers to translate it ( I cant read kanji) I'll scan it. It also talks about the saturn, and it using a SH2, then two SH2.

Another thing is it shows most of the early saturn titles as being cart, and what looks like a 32x verison of clockwork knight.

[Anthaemia.]

I'm not entirely ruling out the possibility of Clockwork Knight existing on the 32X, but wasn't this always intended by Sega as one of three specially-developed Saturn launch titles (along with Panzer Dragoon and International Victory Goal)? If there really is an earlier version - and not just the SGI tech demo, as featured at the 1994 Winter CES - then I'd love to see this...

[Yakumo]

There is no 32X version of Clockwork knight. Those images shown on the net and the ones I posted pictures of ages ago were for the Saturn version. Panzer Dragoon may have been for the 32X but I had and actually know what happened to it now, a video of a very early real time CG demo of Panzer Dragoon. It looks nothing like the final version in fact more like the so called 32X version. The dragon was flying down a shallow canyon then entered a cave. I remember it looked pretty retarded quite like the so called 32X shots. Anyway, that video which also had a Daytona car demo driving in circles around a mode 7 floor, and very early Virtua Fighter tech demo was given to someone who was once a good friend but turned out to be a right git after knowing him for years. That's who has the video tape. I haven't talked to him in years and I doubt he still has that tape so it is as good as lost forever unless someone at Sega Japan leaks it. The tape I had originated from Sega Japan which was then sent to Sega Europe in London which then ended up in the hands of a very big name in the fan subtitled anime ring who gave me a copy. If I knew then how important that tape was I would have never of gave it way.

Yakumo

[Anthaemia.]

Well, thanks to your typically great ability to remember specific details, not all is lost. I'm still confused as to just how many variants on the first generation Saturn titles actually exist, since developers within Sega were clearly experimenting on several platforms and interim designs before finally settling on what became that console. Daytona USA and Panzer Dragoon are linked to the 32X in some ways, though it's almost certain now that Clockwork Knight started off as a Saturn-exclusive project. Having recently seen the original animated sequence pitched by STI for the infamous Sonic X-Treme, I can see plenty of similarities with what has been seen of the early Panzer Dragoon prototype you mentioned. If only more people took an interest in these pieces of software, as they're infinitely more valuable when it comes to filling in the blanks regarding Saturn's genesis (no pun intended).

P.S. Has anybody ever come across the early build of Daytona USA that ran in the Saturn's high resolution display mode? This was pictured once in the UK's official magazine, but since I don't have many back issues of its predecessor (Official Sega Magazine) then I've no idea if more images exist. As part of the Saturn development timeline, it would be great to see how this compared with the version that was ultimately rushed onto shelves.

[Yakumo]

P.S. Has anybody ever come across the early build of Daytona USA that ran in the Saturn's high resolution display mode?Yeah, I had it on video. It's not Daytona but just one Dayton car driving around a mode 7 floor like I mentioned above. The car looks far more impressive than the ones used in the final game.

yakumo

[Anthaemia.]

From the one small pitcure I've seen in SSM it's hard to really tell just how detailed the backgrounds are - or NOT as the case seems to be! - in the high resolution prototype of Daytona, but the Hornet car looked stunning. I've no doubt that AM2 could easily have got the entire conversion looking that good (since they did the same with Virtua Fighter 2 just a few months later), were it not for a certain Sega executive's ultimately foolish decision to bring the console's release forward as a way of stealing early consumers away from the PlayStation. The same idiotic choice also ruined Virtua Fighter, though to be honest both titles maintained their brilliant gameplay. If only more people were able to see past their obvious graphical flaws and realise this...

[Shadowlayer]

I don't know much about the SVP, I only heard once that the very early Model1 units were in fact like a board with one hundred SVPs running in parallel, what would explained the high cost of R&D at the time.

About the MODEL series being ahead of time, undoubtedly they were, if you take a look at the kind of crap others companies were pulling off in the arcades (things like KI had nothing against VF) but on the other hand that put pressure on other companies into developing more advanced systems and at the same time that pressure went back to SEGA.


Yeah, I had it on video. It's not Daytona but just one Dayton car driving around a mode 7 floor like I mentioned above. The car looks far more impressive than the ones used in the final game.

But impressive as in the original arcade? or even more?

I think that's easy to pull off if the only thing to render is the car...

[Yakumo]

THe car from what I remember looked just as good as the original arcade. remember though that it's only 1 car so I don't see any reason why the Saturn couldn't do it. Can't see 1 car having more than 200'000 textured polygons.

Yakumo

[ASSEMbler]

Yeah, I had it on video. It's not Daytona but just one Dayton car driving around a mode 7 floor like I mentioned above. The car looks far more impressive than the ones used in the final game.

yakumo

I have nice pics of that.

[Anthaemia.]

I'm sure you know what I'm going to ask next...

Any chance of sharing those pictures?

[Shadowlayer]

THe car from what I remember looked just as good as the original arcade. remember though that it's only 1 car so I don't see any reason why the Saturn couldn't do it.

I see, anyways, what I meant before is that the Saturn could even render one of the cars from Daytona2 if it doesn't have to draw the rest of the game;-)

And yeah, I agree with antha

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/516/dibujo3ix.jpg

[Shadowlayer]

Why my image doesn't load?

[kingofthelobster]

Umm,

Afaik, VR's SVP chip isn't a SH1, and isn't a pure DSP.

From a discuss i had with a dev-friend (who worked a bit around SVP emulation):
The SVP really execute/draw full parts of the game.
For, exemple, the sega logo sequence (full animation, rotation) is 100% rulled by the SVP, the genesis just upload the rendered picture to VRAM and clear the framebuffer each frame.
I don't know about the other part of the game but I think the genesis just send the cars and camera coordinates to the SVP (certainely a few other things) and let the SVP calculate all (polys screen coordinates...) and the drawing.

He also told me that VirtuaRacing do not use any extra sound possibility (althought it is technicaly possible to add sound source from cartridge port)... strange.

I read somewhere that the SVP was initialy planned to host virtua racing AND let the possibility to be controlled from segacd for disc based games (cheaper).
Advantages were:
-Game cost reduction
-Adding 3D to the 2D (segacd rendered) with same fps.
-blabla :P

The actual cart cannot be controlled from segacd without HW modification (on the cart) so i think the idea was canned when the 32x idea came out.Fonzie, you should try and get your friend over here. I'm sure many of our forum members would love a chance to ask him some more questions that he might be able to answer because of his experience working with the SVP chip.

I do think the SVP+CD thing would have been a pretty cool idea though. Having a add-on cart in the line of a 32x type accessory and then having the Sega CD access it so that 3d effects could have been added to games would have been amazing at the time. I wonder if there are any prototypes in existance of the Sega CD-SVP add-on cart or if it was only ever an idea on paper.

[Anthaemia.]

I've never heard of the SVP+CD concept before, which makes me suggest that it never made it into a working prototype stage. However, it wouldn't be the first time a previously unknown secret has leaked from Sega - back in that period they were experimenting with quite a lot of different hardware, so it's difficult to come to any solid conclusion unless somebody official says otherwise...

P.S. If this really was true, it proves once and for all that Sega didn't learn its lesson from the MegaCD and 32X failures. Then again, we already knew that because of the later Eclipse project and those proposed add-ons for the Dreamcast!

[Shadowlayer]

Wasn't the eclipse just a DVD reader?

[Anthaemia.]

I always thought that "Eclipse" was the codename for Sega of America's hardware accelerator cartrigde, which supposedly gave the Saturn enough additional power to handle Model 3 conversions. However, I'm not sure who provided the actual chipset for this project (3DFX? Lockheed Martin?) or if it even reached a working prototype stage, though what I do know for sure is that SOJ has very little knowledge - if any at all - of its existence and that it was definitely not being utilised for the three AM2 titles (Sonic The Fighters, Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 and what became Shenmue) that were in development late into the Saturn's life.

Much of what I can remember reading in magazines or sites back during the Saturn/Dreamcast era has turned out to be inaccurate or completely false, so I wouldn't be surprised if "Eclipse" was a DVD reader, after all! By the way, were you referring to the Dreamcast with that comment? I sure hope so, as the Saturn wouldn't really have benefitted from DVD playback features. Besides, didn't the DVD format only really become popular after the Saturn had been killed off? Would the technology have even existed to a good enough point while the Saturn was still alive to justify such an accessory? Then again, being part of the business I suspect that Sega has an advantage over us so who really knows what they had planned?

[Shadowlayer]

Back in the Saturn last days in 98 the DVD was "the new thing" and a player would cost you like 1000 or 800 bucks.

And yeah, a lot of magazines used to publish bogus articles and stuff just to fill the pages.

[GigaDrive]

Did they not also have a hand in the creation of the chips for one of the proposed Dural systems?. or was that just a myth


NEC was involved with the manufacturing of the PowerVR chips for PC and for Dreamcast. the PowerVR chips for PC and Dreamcast were designed by Videologic, now part of Imagination Technologies.

the Dural which used Videologic-designed, NEC-manufactured PowerVR was one system as far as I know. Dural was officially named Katana in 1997, and renamed Dreamcast in 1998. so Dural = Katana = Dreamcast.

the other competing system was the Black Belt designed in the U.S. at SegaSoft using a custom 3Dfx Voodoo chip for graphics.

[GigaDrive]

the Eclipse may or may not have existed. it might have been the Saturn upgrade cartridge which used either a Lockheed Martin Real3D-100 or i740 chip
(not the Real3D Pro-1000 used in MODEL 3) or a 3Dfx Voodoo chip or an NEC-Videologic PowerVR chip. or Exclipse could have been the Sega-Matsushita M2 upgrade for Saturn that was said to be in development.


the Lockheed proposals for a Saturn upgrade or standalone all new successor to Saturn was usually called 'Saturn2'


http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3985/saturn2lmc1crop983x9806js.th.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=saturn2lmc1crop983x9806js.jpg)
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/258/saturn2lmc2crop1033x13522rk.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=saturn2lmc2crop1033x13522rk.jpg)
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6834/saturn2lmc3crop1063x14140sq.th.jpg (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=saturn2lmc3crop1063x14140sq.jpg)


it is possible the Eclipse and Saturn2 were one and the same, or entirely different projects.

Sega had alot of sh*t in R&D that we never saw.

what we got was 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast, as far as major hardware platforms.

the most well documented was the BlackBelt (3Dfx based) and Dural/Katana (PowerVR based) of which, the Dural/Katana became the winner, and the system to replace the Saturn under the consumer name of Dreamcast.

[Anthaemia.]

There were many different hardware proposals either in the concept or working prototype stages before Sega finalised the Saturn, and we know of several designs that were considered prior to the Katana becoming Dreamcast. Taking all of this into consideration, does anybody else think Sega also had plenty of ideas for a possible Dreamcast follow-up as well? After its restructuring and new (Sammy-imposed?) emphasis on NOT haemorrhaging cash, would Sega continue making the same mistakes if it were to begin R&D on a new console today? Well, they do say that old dogs can't be taught new tricks...

[Shadowlayer]

or Exclipse could have been the Sega-Matsushita M2 upgrade for Saturn that was said to be in development.

Whoa, there was a plan to use the M2 tech in saturn?:oh:

[Anthaemia.]

If memory serves me correctly, Sega of Japan was in talks with Matsushita to produce its own specification for a cartridge-based Saturn hardware accelerator, much like their US counterparts' so-called "Eclipse" project (if that really was its codename). I've never been able to find anything specific about this piece of hardware, or whether it even made it to the working prototype stage, though it was probably very similar in performance to the M2. Not only would this have opened up the Saturn to many new titles - weren't Racing Jam and Battle Tryst both originally powered by a coin-operated variant on the M2 technology? - but it would also have allowed more accurate conversions of titles from Sega's own Model 3 as well. For some reason (unknown to me, at least) the deal fell through, and it has even been suggested that later on AM2 considered an exclusive home port of Virtua Fighter 3 for the M2 as a consolation and what surely would have become its defining launch title. Of course, we all know what happened next to the M2, and following its proverbial stillbirth Sega took back what is one of their best Saturn-era productions with the intention once more of releasing it on that console instead (though I won't bore you all by getting into that subject - again). This whole episode in Sega/Matsushita's history isn't well documented, and I for one would love to know more...

[Shadowlayer]

I see, well is not the first time a SEGA game was going to be developed on another console.

Remeber the Amiga Sonic 1?:nod:

[RyanGamerGoneGrazy]

I see, well is not the first time a SEGA game was going to be developed on another console.

Remeber the Amiga Sonic 1?:nod:

huh?....say what?..any info

Ryan

[Shadowlayer]

huh?....say what?..any info

I got it in some old magazine, what you didnt know?

[RyanGamerGoneGrazy]

I got it in some old magazine, what you didnt know?

I never paid much attention to sonic.....soo "no"

Ryan

[Alchy]

I don't know of any Amiga Sonic game, and I would have thought I'd know about it... Was it just a port of the Megadrive game or was it different in any way?

I'd be interested to see some scans, either way.

[Shadowlayer]

Well I was going trought sonic cult and other sonic fanwebs and nobody has any info on the Amiga Sonic, weird......

K I'm looking for that mag right now.

PS: is sonic1 but with the graphics of the Amiga.

[drx]

Could you ellaborate some more on the Amiga Sonic 1? Never heard of it. When it was released and by who? What are the differences between the Megadrive one?

[HXC]

Sounds like a fan-made game to me. No Sonic game was ever made for an amiga...

[Shadowlayer]

Sounds like a fan-made game to me. No Sonic game was ever made for an amiga...

No, believe me is real, SEGA wanted to release it in europe.

Just give me a day or 2 until I find the mag.

Also give thanks I got a new scanner yesterday:dance:

[drx]

any news on that?

[LocalH]

From what I understand, Sega at one point was also going to do some sort of Sonic game for the C64. Here's (http://gtw64.retro-net.de/Pages/s/Review_Sonic.php) all the information I know about this one. I hadn't heard about an actual official Amiga version, although there is a mini-"game" available as the hidden part of the Amiga music collection Sonic Attack by Dual Crew Shining. It's a four disk collection, and the game is reached by simply booting with the fourth disk. It's quite limited, but it's nonetheless somewhat interesting (and the music is pretty good).

[Shadowlayer]

K I'm still looking for the mag, anyways, the game looks like a perfect port, but with meager graphics. The color seamed like washed out, but not that bad as nes or SMS palletes.

[Mark30001]

Would you happen to know what magazine type this was? I might have a reference who has a few Sega mags laying around.

...and welcome back! :smashed:

[Shadowlayer]

Would you happen to know what magazine type this was? I might have a reference who has a few Sega mags laying around.

It was a spanish magazine my cousin bought in barcelona, it was pretty good (even when at the time I couldnt read it) and it had an entire section devoted to the amiga.

They even had some photos of a kick ass wipeout clone for the amiga.

And thx, I had problems with my system so thats why I havent been around here lately.

[Taucias]

The game was an unlicensed port. I think it was a demo only, using ECS graphics mode, but don't quote me on that. It gets a mention here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_featuring_Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Image:
http://amigos.amiga.hu/ancientoys/screenshots/sonic1.jpg

[ccovell]

That pic is from the aforementioned "Sonic Attack" by Dual Crew/Shining.

[Shadowlayer]

Yep, is not even close to what Amiga Sonic looks like.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

I've never heard of the SVP+CD concept before, which makes me suggest that it never made it into a working prototype stage. However, it wouldn't be the first time a previously unknown secret has leaked from Sega - back in that period they were experimenting with quite a lot of different hardware, so it's difficult to come to any solid conclusion unless somebody official says otherwise...

P.S. If this really was true, it proves once and for all that Sega didn't learn its lesson from the MegaCD and 32X failures. Then again, we already knew that because of the later Eclipse project and those proposed add-ons for the Dreamcast!
Well, this thing with the SVP chip would have been prior to the 32X being released or possibly even coming into development. And the Sega CD was hardly really a failure anyway. It was pretty successful for what it was.

I think the idea of using the SVP chip in the Virtua Racing cart for other games that could be sold on disc would have been a great idea. I never even thought of it, but it could be done with the 32X and CD games, then I suppose it could have been with the Virtua Racing cart. I'd heard about Sega considering releasing Virtua Racing as a lock-on cartridge (like Sonic & Knuckles) so that later released games could be plugged into it to take advantage of the SVP chip so that customers wouldn't have to buy the SVP chip all over again for each game that used it. I guess this is what eventually morphed into the 32X idea. However, in my opinion, this would have been a much better idea than either the SVP lock-on cart or the 32X.

Even though the SVP wouldn't have been able to provide as much of a leap forward as the 32X could, getting it as part of Virtua Racing which many people wanted anyway and for quite a bit cheaper than the 32X eventually cost, would have made it a really great upgrade option that probably would have been more popular with the public. It also wouldn't have caused the appearance that Sega had two separate systems vying to be their "next generation" system, since the SVP add-on could only have been considered an upgrade to the Genesis and not a realistic competitor in the coming generation. Lastly, it would have probably also helped the the Sega CD's (and X'Eye's, and CDX's, etc.) sales, too.

Definitely a better idea than the 32X, though the games wouldn't have been as nice as those released for the 32X (and there were definitely some good ones, despite all the trash the system takes).


...word is bondage...

[Garlo]

I was under the impression that U.S. Gold had the rights to port Sonic to C64. I have some italian magazine here where they review Sonic and mention this, as well as Sonic ports from other computer plataforms. I'll try and find it during these days and post it. It's in italian, tough. :P

[Anthaemia.]

I can remember many stories throughout the years in magazines that claimed Sonic was heading to other systems, but in the end he stayed (relatively) loyal to Sega until after the company went third party - weren't there also plans to release a series of titles for the PlayStation that included NiGHTS, Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter 2 and a 3D remake of the first Sonic? I'd sure love to know if that last one reached a decent enough stage of development for screenshots or even some playable code to leak, as not much is known about it otherwise... if it even existed at all!

[Shadowlayer]

weren't there also plans to release a series of titles for the PlayStation that included NiGHTS, Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter 2 and a 3D remake of the first Sonic?

Where did you get that? I never heard of such plans, much less at a time SEGA wasnt even close to bankrupcy.

They were talking about porting sonic to other systems but that was before it became a market craze.

[LocalH]

K I'm still looking for the mag, anyways, the game looks like a perfect port, but with meager graphics. The color seamed like washed out, but not that bad as nes or SMS palletes.
That would make sense, as the Genesis can display more discrete colors at once than an OCS Amiga. The Genesis has four pallet lines of 16 colors (of which the first color of each is unusable for anything but the background color), and the Amiga could only display 32 discrete colors at once (although there was also a half-bright mode analogous to the shadow part of the Genesis' shadow/highlight mode, and of course there was also 4096 color HAM, which is totally unusable for a game).

It would take at least an Amiga 1200 to do a port with perfect graphics, because Sonic 1 uses every bit of the pallet that's available. The mid-frame pallet changes used to produce water wouldn't be a problem, even on OCS, as the Amiga has a copperlist which allows you to do such a thing in a much easier fashion than using the Genesis H-int facility.

[smf]

Afaik, VR's SVP chip isn't a SH1, and isn't a pure DSP.

DSP is a very loose term http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signal_processor
Sega marketting are just trying to get people to buy games ( i.e. SNES had DSP so Genesis should have it too, whether it's really one or not ). Don't forget they came up with the term "Blast Processing" & sold cartridges by the megabit because the numbers were bigger.

The best guess right now is that it's an SH1 with an embedded rom ( like the saturn cd controller ). Because of the internal rom, it's function is fixed to the game. So the main cpu could easily just send a list of where the cars are, whether it's a cpu, dsp or whatever.

It's entirely possible it's not a SH1, until someone manages to trojan the internal rom or slice the top of a chip off and dump it from the die then it's all speculation. By now there are so many sites that say it is a SH1 that googling is unlikely to return any real information.

smf

[WolverineDK]

Where did you get that? I never heard of such plans, much less at a time SEGA wasnt even close to bankrupcy.

They were talking about porting sonic to other systems but that was before it became a market craze.

I have read that "funny" in an April issue of one of the Future Publishings magazines, I think it was Play Magazine, back then when I read it .

[supersonic87]

I have read that "funny" in an April issue of one of the Future Publishings magazines, I think it was Play Magazine, back then when I read it .

I definetly remember reading about that in the official uk playstatio magazine. There was a half page article saying that SEGA games would be com ing to the PS1, panzer dragoon was one mentioned. I'll see if I've still got the article here and scan it.

[Shadowlayer]

Euro mags were sony bitches during the late 90s.

Obviously that was a tactic to move saturn buyers to the PSX.

[hl718]

Euro mags were sony bitches during the late 90s.

Obviously that was a tactic to move saturn buyers to the PSX.
Those claiming that Sega's plan to port popular franchises to the PS2 were mere rumors or fantasies of Euro mags are quite misinformed. Sega of America announced the idea shortly after the Dreamcast was tanked.

-hl718

[Shadowlayer]

We're talking about the saturn, pal. At that time we all know SEGA would keep releasing consoles.

The DC that's a completely different issue, since SEGA did announce they were going from hardware to software bussines.

[hl718]

We're talking about the saturn, pal. At that time we all know SEGA would keep releasing consoles.

The DC that's a completely different issue, since SEGA did announce they were going from hardware to software bussines.
And Sega did announce plans to port specific Saturn franchises (including Panzer Dragoon) to Sony's platform. This wasn't hidden at all. ;)

-hl718

[Shadowlayer]

K, if you can scan that magazine (or even better, get a very reliable source on that) then no prob.

[hl718]

K, if you can scan that magazine (or even better, get a very reliable source on that) then no prob.
I don't have a magazine, but I don't suppose you'd accept that I heard it directly from Charles Bellfield's lips as a primary source? If that's not good enough for you I don't know what is. :)

-hl718

[Shadowlayer]

And whos that?

[ICEknight]

And Sega did announce plans to port specific Saturn franchises (including Panzer Dragoon) to Sony's platform. This wasn't hidden at all. ;)

-hl718
I sorta remember that... At least I remember reading similar news and fantasizing about Sonic R and NiGHTS being ported to the PSX.

[hl718]

And whos that?
You have much to learn about Sega, Grasshopper. ;)

-hl718

[Shadowlayer]

Lets me guess, the president of SEGA europe? or england?

[Alchy]

The answer. (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=charles+bellfield+sega&btnG=Search&meta=)

[Sally]

And whos that?

kids these days... :lol:

[Anthaemia.]

Those claiming that Sega's plan to port popular franchises to the PS2 were mere rumors or fantasies of Euro mags are quite misinformed. Sega of America announced the idea shortly after the Dreamcast was tanked.

-hl718

I was referring to a much earlier plan to create Saturn and MegaDrive ports for the original PlayStation, though I've long since forgotten where I first read about this. However, titles being considered included VF2, Panzer Dragoon and a 3D remake of the first Sonic game. The possibility of this happening was going around long before anything was seen of NiGHTS (and possibly even before the Saturn's release in the UK, as I read quite a few magazines during this period), so it definitely wasn't just Sega jumping on the PS bandwagon. Can anybody help me with some actual sources, plus information relating to the later PS2 efforts? Of course, I presume that has since evolved into the AGES 2500 range...

[Yakumo]

Anthemia, I read those articles as well. They were printed way before any mention of the PS2 or Dreamcast ! They were probably Sony hype to lour more people away from the Saturn.

Yakumo

[Anthaemia.]

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if those rumours were started by Sony, as I definitely recall an interview with Travellers Tales in the UK official Sega Saturn Magazine where it was claimed that a game such as Sonic R would be near-impossible to reproduce on the PlayStation with a decent enough frame rate to make it playable. Considering this very title was one of the highlights of the recent Gems Collection, I doubt this comment was a specific attack on the PS2's capabilities. Also, it's very ironic that Sonic The Fighters (another title long connected with the Saturn) ultimately ended up on the PS2 - and GameCube - in the very same package! How times have changed for Sega...

[Shadowlayer]

Well I'm kinda outdated about whos in charge at SEGA, since they arent the company I use to trust, not anymore...


They were probably Sony hype to lour more people away from the Saturn.

I second:dance: