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GaijinPunch
03-15-2004, 07:19 PM
I remember in the 16-bit days, going to a specialty store, convention or something, and seeing the $79.99 Japanese version of games and thinking it was something neat. Having been sent over across the ocean, and being a cool little piece of a very foreign culture.

Now it's just "the jap version" of the game. Man how times change. :)

GaijinPunch
03-15-2004, 07:19 PM
I remember in the 16-bit days, going to a specialty store, convention or something, and seeing the $79.99 Japanese version of games and thinking it was something neat. Having been sent over across the ocean, and being a cool little piece of a very foreign culture.

Now it's just "the jap version" of the game. Man how times change. :)

GaijinPunch
03-15-2004, 07:19 PM
I remember in the 16-bit days, going to a specialty store, convention or something, and seeing the $79.99 Japanese version of games and thinking it was something neat. Having been sent over across the ocean, and being a cool little piece of a very foreign culture.

Now it's just "the jap version" of the game. Man how times change. :)

ASSEMbler
03-15-2004, 07:23 PM
I remember when I used to order import Sfami from a small japanese video store out in cali.

When tommo used to sell games WITH printed translations.

When a NES multicart was $300

I miss all the third party nes controllers. There must have been 100 of them, some I have never seen again.

I had this awesome clear white and green flight stick I played gyruss with :smt024

ASSEMbler
03-15-2004, 07:23 PM
I remember when I used to order import Sfami from a small japanese video store out in cali.

When tommo used to sell games WITH printed translations.

When a NES multicart was $300

I miss all the third party nes controllers. There must have been 100 of them, some I have never seen again.

I had this awesome clear white and green flight stick I played gyruss with :smt024

ASSEMbler
03-15-2004, 07:23 PM
I remember when I used to order import Sfami from a small japanese video store out in cali.

When tommo used to sell games WITH printed translations.

When a NES multicart was $300

I miss all the third party nes controllers. There must have been 100 of them, some I have never seen again.

I had this awesome clear white and green flight stick I played gyruss with :smt024

Yakumo
03-16-2004, 12:09 AM
I remember in the 16-bit days, going to a specialty store, convention or something, and seeing the $79.99 Japanese version of games and thinking it was something neat. Having been sent over across the ocean, and being a cool little piece of a very foreign culture.

I remember those days well. I remember getting so excited about buying Japanese Mega Drive and Super Famicom games. Then it was on to the saturn. Now it's not so special when I see Japanese games until I find a western version (mostly US9 than think myself lucky that I don't have to put up loads of Sports shite from EA and crappy art work :-D

Yakumo

Yakumo
03-16-2004, 12:09 AM
I remember in the 16-bit days, going to a specialty store, convention or something, and seeing the $79.99 Japanese version of games and thinking it was something neat. Having been sent over across the ocean, and being a cool little piece of a very foreign culture.

I remember those days well. I remember getting so excited about buying Japanese Mega Drive and Super Famicom games. Then it was on to the saturn. Now it's not so special when I see Japanese games until I find a western version (mostly US9 than think myself lucky that I don't have to put up loads of Sports shite from EA and crappy art work :-D

Yakumo

Yakumo
03-16-2004, 12:09 AM
I remember in the 16-bit days, going to a specialty store, convention or something, and seeing the $79.99 Japanese version of games and thinking it was something neat. Having been sent over across the ocean, and being a cool little piece of a very foreign culture.

I remember those days well. I remember getting so excited about buying Japanese Mega Drive and Super Famicom games. Then it was on to the saturn. Now it's not so special when I see Japanese games until I find a western version (mostly US9 than think myself lucky that I don't have to put up loads of Sports shite from EA and crappy art work :-D

Yakumo

Johnny
03-16-2004, 01:06 AM
I remember going to games stores after school.

I remember renting imported games for Master System (mostly US not released in Brazil) and Mega Drive (japanese imports).

I do remember to see the game store owner opening the first japanese Saturn, the first japanese Playstation, the first japanese Nintendo 64, and then we playing them for like 3 hours and people drooling.

Actually the first time i played Mario 64 i was amazed. Can't believe the game had so beautiful graphics, amazing gameplay and was extremely addictive!

Today the game still rocks! :smt024

Johnny
03-16-2004, 01:06 AM
I remember going to games stores after school.

I remember renting imported games for Master System (mostly US not released in Brazil) and Mega Drive (japanese imports).

I do remember to see the game store owner opening the first japanese Saturn, the first japanese Playstation, the first japanese Nintendo 64, and then we playing them for like 3 hours and people drooling.

Actually the first time i played Mario 64 i was amazed. Can't believe the game had so beautiful graphics, amazing gameplay and was extremely addictive!

Today the game still rocks! :smt024

Johnny
03-16-2004, 01:06 AM
I remember going to games stores after school.

I remember renting imported games for Master System (mostly US not released in Brazil) and Mega Drive (japanese imports).

I do remember to see the game store owner opening the first japanese Saturn, the first japanese Playstation, the first japanese Nintendo 64, and then we playing them for like 3 hours and people drooling.

Actually the first time i played Mario 64 i was amazed. Can't believe the game had so beautiful graphics, amazing gameplay and was extremely addictive!

Today the game still rocks! :smt024

ASSEMbler
03-16-2004, 01:26 AM
RGB mod your 64, it makes is a lot better looking

ASSEMbler
03-16-2004, 01:26 AM
RGB mod your 64, it makes is a lot better looking

ASSEMbler
03-16-2004, 01:26 AM
RGB mod your 64, it makes is a lot better looking

GaijinPunch
03-16-2004, 01:40 AM
Hehe. I guess my first exposure was an old game magazine, showing pics of Phantasy Star III (like two pics... it might've been EGM). I took the magazine to school and had the Japanese exchange student tell me what it said. It was something like, "It's in the woods!" How LAME!

After that, went to the anime room at a comic convention and saw people playing some Turbo Duo adn Super Famicom stuff. I cringed at the high prices, but liked the games.

Now, I've got the best of all worlds. Surrounded by games, have the money to buy them, and actually get laid!

GaijinPunch
03-16-2004, 01:40 AM
Hehe. I guess my first exposure was an old game magazine, showing pics of Phantasy Star III (like two pics... it might've been EGM). I took the magazine to school and had the Japanese exchange student tell me what it said. It was something like, "It's in the woods!" How LAME!

After that, went to the anime room at a comic convention and saw people playing some Turbo Duo adn Super Famicom stuff. I cringed at the high prices, but liked the games.

Now, I've got the best of all worlds. Surrounded by games, have the money to buy them, and actually get laid!

GaijinPunch
03-16-2004, 01:40 AM
Hehe. I guess my first exposure was an old game magazine, showing pics of Phantasy Star III (like two pics... it might've been EGM). I took the magazine to school and had the Japanese exchange student tell me what it said. It was something like, "It's in the woods!" How LAME!

After that, went to the anime room at a comic convention and saw people playing some Turbo Duo adn Super Famicom stuff. I cringed at the high prices, but liked the games.

Now, I've got the best of all worlds. Surrounded by games, have the money to buy them, and actually get laid!

ASSEMbler
03-16-2004, 02:22 AM
Have to love tokyo.

If you can dance and club a bit, it's endless fun and
booty.

ASSEMbler
03-16-2004, 02:22 AM
Have to love tokyo.

If you can dance and club a bit, it's endless fun and
booty.

ASSEMbler
03-16-2004, 02:22 AM
Have to love tokyo.

If you can dance and club a bit, it's endless fun and
booty.

virtual alan
03-16-2004, 02:45 AM
It was also kinda expensive...OK f@@@@g expensive.

I am sure I have the first copy of some old magazine at home (i`m in the office at the moment) and some of the consoles were almost at the $1000=£600+ figure.

What with the internet and people being a lot more savvy thank god these stupid days are long gone

virtual alan
03-16-2004, 02:45 AM
It was also kinda expensive...OK f@@@@g expensive.

I am sure I have the first copy of some old magazine at home (i`m in the office at the moment) and some of the consoles were almost at the $1000=£600+ figure.

What with the internet and people being a lot more savvy thank god these stupid days are long gone

virtual alan
03-16-2004, 02:45 AM
It was also kinda expensive...OK f@@@@g expensive.

I am sure I have the first copy of some old magazine at home (i`m in the office at the moment) and some of the consoles were almost at the $1000=£600+ figure.

What with the internet and people being a lot more savvy thank god these stupid days are long gone

SuperFunkNinjaYoshiiKun
03-16-2004, 04:01 AM
Yeah, I remember when Jap games were very special. Like when the Super Famicom first came out. £600 for the SF, a power converter, Mario World and Actraiser. But it was the most amazing thing. And £600 in like, 1991, was a vast fortune. :toimonster:

And when my mate got the SuperFamicom version of Street Fighter 2, about 5 days after the Japanese release. He paid £120 for the game!!! Crazy. But there was like, 10 of us, in his room all crowded round a poxy little 14'' TV playing SF2 all day. Quality. :smt023

The last time a Jap import seemed really special was when I got my N64 with Mario 64 and Starfox. Mario made me cack myself, and Starfox was (and still is) a fine, amazing game. :prayer:

But now, with the fall of the DC and Saturn in the west, buying Jap games seems the norm to me now. The wonder and mystery does seem to have gone a bit. Ah well, back to Psyvariar 2, and bring on Shikigami 2!

:smt033

SuperFunkNinjaYoshiiKun
03-16-2004, 04:01 AM
Yeah, I remember when Jap games were very special. Like when the Super Famicom first came out. £600 for the SF, a power converter, Mario World and Actraiser. But it was the most amazing thing. And £600 in like, 1991, was a vast fortune. :toimonster:

And when my mate got the SuperFamicom version of Street Fighter 2, about 5 days after the Japanese release. He paid £120 for the game!!! Crazy. But there was like, 10 of us, in his room all crowded round a poxy little 14'' TV playing SF2 all day. Quality. :smt023

The last time a Jap import seemed really special was when I got my N64 with Mario 64 and Starfox. Mario made me cack myself, and Starfox was (and still is) a fine, amazing game. :prayer:

But now, with the fall of the DC and Saturn in the west, buying Jap games seems the norm to me now. The wonder and mystery does seem to have gone a bit. Ah well, back to Psyvariar 2, and bring on Shikigami 2!

:smt033

SuperFunkNinjaYoshiiKun
03-16-2004, 04:01 AM
Yeah, I remember when Jap games were very special. Like when the Super Famicom first came out. £600 for the SF, a power converter, Mario World and Actraiser. But it was the most amazing thing. And £600 in like, 1991, was a vast fortune. :toimonster:

And when my mate got the SuperFamicom version of Street Fighter 2, about 5 days after the Japanese release. He paid £120 for the game!!! Crazy. But there was like, 10 of us, in his room all crowded round a poxy little 14'' TV playing SF2 all day. Quality. :smt023

The last time a Jap import seemed really special was when I got my N64 with Mario 64 and Starfox. Mario made me cack myself, and Starfox was (and still is) a fine, amazing game. :prayer:

But now, with the fall of the DC and Saturn in the west, buying Jap games seems the norm to me now. The wonder and mystery does seem to have gone a bit. Ah well, back to Psyvariar 2, and bring on Shikigami 2!

:smt033

s0urce
03-16-2004, 04:04 AM
At these times I wasn't could hardly effort every few months a new snes game which were ~120DM (maybe 70$ or 80$ that time?) so I wasn't even thinking about import stuff.

s0urce
03-16-2004, 04:04 AM
At these times I wasn't could hardly effort every few months a new snes game which were ~120DM (maybe 70$ or 80$ that time?) so I wasn't even thinking about import stuff.

s0urce
03-16-2004, 04:04 AM
At these times I wasn't could hardly effort every few months a new snes game which were ~120DM (maybe 70$ or 80$ that time?) so I wasn't even thinking about import stuff.

SilverBolt
03-16-2004, 04:07 AM
I remeber there was a kid on my block who's dad used to go to japan and hong-kong for his work and would always bring back some games or a console, that guy had an import saturn and PSX they were both like 2000 guilders each (roughly 800-ish euro's)

And all i could do was wait for the pal release :smt022

SilverBolt
03-16-2004, 04:07 AM
I remeber there was a kid on my block who's dad used to go to japan and hong-kong for his work and would always bring back some games or a console, that guy had an import saturn and PSX they were both like 2000 guilders each (roughly 800-ish euro's)

And all i could do was wait for the pal release :smt022

SilverBolt
03-16-2004, 04:07 AM
I remeber there was a kid on my block who's dad used to go to japan and hong-kong for his work and would always bring back some games or a console, that guy had an import saturn and PSX they were both like 2000 guilders each (roughly 800-ish euro's)

And all i could do was wait for the pal release :smt022

tekaotaku
03-16-2004, 04:48 AM
First glimpse of an import console was a Super Famicom at an AMIGA club!. Some guy just turned up one night, considering most of the people that went were in the age bracket of 10-19 at the time (1991) we used to just set up the amiga's, play games (swap discs,shhhhhhhhh!) and then one night this gy turns up, whacks out his television, connects his SF and starts playing Mario World! Everyone walked past and looked but no one seemed interested, I must have stood there about 20 mins watching the guy play the final last few levels and beat bowser, while being impressed it wasnt anything the Amiga didnt have (I was a bit of fanboy back then for the amiga).........then he put F-ZERO in, while needless to say, everyone went to look as the amiga had nothing like this (well nothing that moved or looked that nice), everyone took it in turns to have a go, it turned out to be an alright night.


But I know what you mean when you say there isnt that "special" feeling when obtaining import games/hardware anymore. Before Ebay (and other online stores) I used to love looking in the back on old 90's games mags where you had the adverts for import Superfami/MD, PC ENGINE games and hardware, and for more information send a stamped address evelope to such and such po box! You got a great feeling when the documents arrived, which were only photocopies of a master, which consisted of a list and a few black and white grainy scans, but its all good. God I miss those days.......never had any money to buy back then (still dont) but I do miss them days.

tekaotaku
03-16-2004, 04:48 AM
First glimpse of an import console was a Super Famicom at an AMIGA club!. Some guy just turned up one night, considering most of the people that went were in the age bracket of 10-19 at the time (1991) we used to just set up the amiga's, play games (swap discs,shhhhhhhhh!) and then one night this gy turns up, whacks out his television, connects his SF and starts playing Mario World! Everyone walked past and looked but no one seemed interested, I must have stood there about 20 mins watching the guy play the final last few levels and beat bowser, while being impressed it wasnt anything the Amiga didnt have (I was a bit of fanboy back then for the amiga).........then he put F-ZERO in, while needless to say, everyone went to look as the amiga had nothing like this (well nothing that moved or looked that nice), everyone took it in turns to have a go, it turned out to be an alright night.


But I know what you mean when you say there isnt that "special" feeling when obtaining import games/hardware anymore. Before Ebay (and other online stores) I used to love looking in the back on old 90's games mags where you had the adverts for import Superfami/MD, PC ENGINE games and hardware, and for more information send a stamped address evelope to such and such po box! You got a great feeling when the documents arrived, which were only photocopies of a master, which consisted of a list and a few black and white grainy scans, but its all good. God I miss those days.......never had any money to buy back then (still dont) but I do miss them days.

tekaotaku
03-16-2004, 04:48 AM
First glimpse of an import console was a Super Famicom at an AMIGA club!. Some guy just turned up one night, considering most of the people that went were in the age bracket of 10-19 at the time (1991) we used to just set up the amiga's, play games (swap discs,shhhhhhhhh!) and then one night this gy turns up, whacks out his television, connects his SF and starts playing Mario World! Everyone walked past and looked but no one seemed interested, I must have stood there about 20 mins watching the guy play the final last few levels and beat bowser, while being impressed it wasnt anything the Amiga didnt have (I was a bit of fanboy back then for the amiga).........then he put F-ZERO in, while needless to say, everyone went to look as the amiga had nothing like this (well nothing that moved or looked that nice), everyone took it in turns to have a go, it turned out to be an alright night.


But I know what you mean when you say there isnt that "special" feeling when obtaining import games/hardware anymore. Before Ebay (and other online stores) I used to love looking in the back on old 90's games mags where you had the adverts for import Superfami/MD, PC ENGINE games and hardware, and for more information send a stamped address evelope to such and such po box! You got a great feeling when the documents arrived, which were only photocopies of a master, which consisted of a list and a few black and white grainy scans, but its all good. God I miss those days.......never had any money to buy back then (still dont) but I do miss them days.

AnalogWinter
03-16-2004, 08:21 AM
I remember rushing home to play DW and FF on the NES. Spending, so much time I don't know how I stayed conscious.

Then seeing the Neo Geo Gold System in SaveMart for $899, and walking bye the SNES display and wishing I had $299.

It all went crazy when I bought my first Turbo Duo....Lords of Thunder, Dragon Slayer (Still my fav RPG of all time), Gates of Thunder, Air Zonk....The list goes on. :-)

Walking around NYC and try to find time to go to every store, which at the time where numbered in double digits. Now it is a few, one or 2 at the most, and they’re pricing schema hasn't changed since the early 90s.

Yes, it used to be an adventure (not to sound cheesy), now you just log on and you pretty much have anything you want, for the right price. There’s not much searching (except for ultra rare stuff), no fighting with a friend over PCE games :-p, just a mass market of goods.

:snipe:

AnalogWinter
03-16-2004, 08:21 AM
I remember rushing home to play DW and FF on the NES. Spending, so much time I don't know how I stayed conscious.

Then seeing the Neo Geo Gold System in SaveMart for $899, and walking bye the SNES display and wishing I had $299.

It all went crazy when I bought my first Turbo Duo....Lords of Thunder, Dragon Slayer (Still my fav RPG of all time), Gates of Thunder, Air Zonk....The list goes on. :-)

Walking around NYC and try to find time to go to every store, which at the time where numbered in double digits. Now it is a few, one or 2 at the most, and they’re pricing schema hasn't changed since the early 90s.

Yes, it used to be an adventure (not to sound cheesy), now you just log on and you pretty much have anything you want, for the right price. There’s not much searching (except for ultra rare stuff), no fighting with a friend over PCE games :-p, just a mass market of goods.

:snipe:

AnalogWinter
03-16-2004, 08:21 AM
I remember rushing home to play DW and FF on the NES. Spending, so much time I don't know how I stayed conscious.

Then seeing the Neo Geo Gold System in SaveMart for $899, and walking bye the SNES display and wishing I had $299.

It all went crazy when I bought my first Turbo Duo....Lords of Thunder, Dragon Slayer (Still my fav RPG of all time), Gates of Thunder, Air Zonk....The list goes on. :-)

Walking around NYC and try to find time to go to every store, which at the time where numbered in double digits. Now it is a few, one or 2 at the most, and they’re pricing schema hasn't changed since the early 90s.

Yes, it used to be an adventure (not to sound cheesy), now you just log on and you pretty much have anything you want, for the right price. There’s not much searching (except for ultra rare stuff), no fighting with a friend over PCE games :-p, just a mass market of goods.

:snipe:

Yceman
03-16-2004, 10:14 AM
I remember when I was very young and spent hours playing Mario on my Nes clone. Some time after that, my mom used to rent a Master System for the weekends, so I could play Alex Kidd on it. After that, she bought it and it was one of the happiest moments of my life :-D
Later, I remember the first time I played Sonic the Hedgedog on my cousin's 40" TV, and my jaw just hit the floor.
Some months later, my sister (older than me) bought me a Mega Drive with Truxton, Kid Chameleon and Toe Jam & Earl. I Used to invite some friends over and have lots of fun playing Toe Jam & Earl for many hours.
Maybe a couple years later, the same sister bought me a Sega CD, which I enjoyed a lot, even though there were not many games for it here.
Around 96~97, my mom bought a Saturn and I was simply amazed at Virtua Fighter Remix. I thought "how then can make the arcade Virtua Fighter even better looking?"

Yceman
03-16-2004, 10:14 AM
I remember when I was very young and spent hours playing Mario on my Nes clone. Some time after that, my mom used to rent a Master System for the weekends, so I could play Alex Kidd on it. After that, she bought it and it was one of the happiest moments of my life :-D
Later, I remember the first time I played Sonic the Hedgedog on my cousin's 40" TV, and my jaw just hit the floor.
Some months later, my sister (older than me) bought me a Mega Drive with Truxton, Kid Chameleon and Toe Jam & Earl. I Used to invite some friends over and have lots of fun playing Toe Jam & Earl for many hours.
Maybe a couple years later, the same sister bought me a Sega CD, which I enjoyed a lot, even though there were not many games for it here.
Around 96~97, my mom bought a Saturn and I was simply amazed at Virtua Fighter Remix. I thought "how then can make the arcade Virtua Fighter even better looking?"

Yceman
03-16-2004, 10:14 AM
I remember when I was very young and spent hours playing Mario on my Nes clone. Some time after that, my mom used to rent a Master System for the weekends, so I could play Alex Kidd on it. After that, she bought it and it was one of the happiest moments of my life :-D
Later, I remember the first time I played Sonic the Hedgedog on my cousin's 40" TV, and my jaw just hit the floor.
Some months later, my sister (older than me) bought me a Mega Drive with Truxton, Kid Chameleon and Toe Jam & Earl. I Used to invite some friends over and have lots of fun playing Toe Jam & Earl for many hours.
Maybe a couple years later, the same sister bought me a Sega CD, which I enjoyed a lot, even though there were not many games for it here.
Around 96~97, my mom bought a Saturn and I was simply amazed at Virtua Fighter Remix. I thought "how then can make the arcade Virtua Fighter even better looking?"

Paulo
03-16-2004, 10:31 AM
In between 5-9 i was living in brazil... two of my rather rich neighbours had consoles there. One had nintendo stuff and the other had sega mater system and then a megadrive... so cool back then. Most people prob dint even know what they were back then... (about 10years ago). Moved the uk and within a year got my self my very own megadrive! :prayer:

Also being the only person in my school to have a dreamcast one year before Uk release was cool!

Paulo

Paulo
03-16-2004, 10:31 AM
In between 5-9 i was living in brazil... two of my rather rich neighbours had consoles there. One had nintendo stuff and the other had sega mater system and then a megadrive... so cool back then. Most people prob dint even know what they were back then... (about 10years ago). Moved the uk and within a year got my self my very own megadrive! :prayer:

Also being the only person in my school to have a dreamcast one year before Uk release was cool!

Paulo

Paulo
03-16-2004, 10:31 AM
In between 5-9 i was living in brazil... two of my rather rich neighbours had consoles there. One had nintendo stuff and the other had sega mater system and then a megadrive... so cool back then. Most people prob dint even know what they were back then... (about 10years ago). Moved the uk and within a year got my self my very own megadrive! :prayer:

Also being the only person in my school to have a dreamcast one year before Uk release was cool!

Paulo

AntiPasta
03-16-2004, 01:58 PM
I pretty much missed out on console gaming (blame my PC fanboyism :smt022 ), I did have a NES in 1993 and I do remember some stores selling US games, even normal convenience stores and stuff... bought one game (F15 or something), turned out I was one of the few with a region-locked console (it worked on my friends' Control Decks but not on mine, it had "European Version" written under the NES text on the cart door)... also a friend of mine had a 190-in-1 NES cart that was loads of fun, didnt work on my NES though after my parents got me a Game Key at the same convenience store (still flimsy as heck tho)

AntiPasta
03-16-2004, 01:58 PM
I pretty much missed out on console gaming (blame my PC fanboyism :smt022 ), I did have a NES in 1993 and I do remember some stores selling US games, even normal convenience stores and stuff... bought one game (F15 or something), turned out I was one of the few with a region-locked console (it worked on my friends' Control Decks but not on mine, it had "European Version" written under the NES text on the cart door)... also a friend of mine had a 190-in-1 NES cart that was loads of fun, didnt work on my NES though after my parents got me a Game Key at the same convenience store (still flimsy as heck tho)

AntiPasta
03-16-2004, 01:58 PM
I pretty much missed out on console gaming (blame my PC fanboyism :smt022 ), I did have a NES in 1993 and I do remember some stores selling US games, even normal convenience stores and stuff... bought one game (F15 or something), turned out I was one of the few with a region-locked console (it worked on my friends' Control Decks but not on mine, it had "European Version" written under the NES text on the cart door)... also a friend of mine had a 190-in-1 NES cart that was loads of fun, didnt work on my NES though after my parents got me a Game Key at the same convenience store (still flimsy as heck tho)

GaijinPunch
03-16-2004, 09:31 PM
If you can dance and club a bit, it's endless fun and
booty.

I pretty much gave up that lifestyle. Not very healthy (professionaly, physically, or mentally) and definitely not when you're married. I did go out this last weekend... the wife wasn't impressed when I strolled in at 10AM. :)

Back to the subject. Since the DC fell, I don't feel like "collecting" new games. I like some of the new stuff, and play it, but I will never "go out on a limb" for a PS2 game, where I did it all the time w/ the my DC.

There's talk of me moving out of Japan before the year is out (not for sure, but it's a possibility) so I'm buying Saturn stuff like crazy.