Dreamcast 2

[JTI2K]

Lets say that somehow SEGA found the way to keep the DC in the market and it ends up with a 50% of the market (being the PS2 the other 50%) thanks to its reduced price (they reduced the price after all). The when Xbox and GC came out the DC is abble to maintain a hefty 25% share (being PS2 a 40%, Xbox the other 25% and GC 10%)

Now, with this scenario, how you think the Dreamcast2 would been?

I say SEGA would do the switch around the end of 2003-early 2004, after unveiling the console at the 2003 E3. The specs should be a little higher than Xbox.

I dont know if it could keep the SH architecture, since Renesas didnt came with anything super-powerful after the DC, only revisions based on the SH4 (OK, they jumped from 360 to 540 MIPS, but the DC2 needs more than that). Maybe SEGA could use the X86 too, but from AMD, cuz intel is way too expensive. I dont know if they`ll go as far as using an Athlon64 (the athlonXP already kiks any pentiums ass) but they could use a crippled one, with a limited set of instructions, thus making it cheaper.

The GPU should be definitively from ATI. 3Dfx is gone from the market, and i dont think they are goin to nVidia for obvious reasons. Videologic? i dont know if they could come with something powerfull enough at that time. At the end, i think the GPU could be a 9800PRO. The resolutions would be 480p standart and 720i optional, all at 16:9 native.

DVD and ethernet are already a standart. An HDD would be optional with a bay to install it. The controller needs another analog and more buttons (maybe 2 extra shoulder buttons like the X360) and standart dual rumble. The new VMU could have built-in MP3 to make it more atractive to the mainstream. Sound: 5.1 and DTS capabilities.

All this 299$ for the holidays and 250$ for summer 2004.

Man, i cant imagine the games SEGA could do for this console :smt045


Im goin to bed now, maybe ill add some more tomorrow

[neomatrix]

sega ready have the dreamcast2
http://www.system16.com/sega/hrdw_naomi2.html

[Szczepaniak]

The resolutions would be 480p standart and 720i optional, all at 16:9 native. DVD and ethernet are already a standart. An HDD would be optional with a bay to install it. The controller needs another analog and more buttons (maybe 2 extra shoulder buttons like the X360) and standart dual rumble. The new VMU could have built-in MP3 to make it more atractive to the mainstream. Sound: 5.1 and DTS capabilities.


But, I loved the DC without all those extra things. I wished the original DC was still being supported. I would never have bought a GC/Xbox/PS2 etc.

I don't actually want high definition/resolution games, it needs a special TV.

I don't want 16:9 (for gods sake people, PAL gamers have yearned for years to get rid of bloody wide screen that came as standard, and now its coming back! WHY?! You've all gone mad!).

DVD does nothing for me. GD-rom games were plenty big enough.

Ethernet? I don't even like the internet on my consoles.

Why would I want a HDD? My Xbox has one, and Ive never done anything with it. I just burn emulators to CDRW. I guess its cool if you rip games to the HDD, but dodgy Frank down the market can sell me burns for a coupla quid, making a HDD obsolete.

I dispise analogue controls. They are twitchy and fidgity. Analogue sticks, such as those on the N64, break VERY easily. Plus, being the highly strung person that I am, my hands twitch, resulting in the analogue stick going all over the place. Shenmue thankfully never used analogue control, otherwise Ryo would have run around like a drunk tramp. The Japanese Saturn pad was digital and it's arguably the finest pad ever devised. I fail to see any benefit of analogue control. I loathe it.

Also, many people complain that extra buttons don't make games anymore fun, they only make them more complex.

Also, MP3? I hate multi-use game systems. I buy consoles to play videogames, nothing more. If I want a multi system, I buy a PC, which plays DVDs, MP3s and makes rather good French toast.

I don't even know what DTS is. Some kind of sound thing right? I just hook it up to a TV, I don't go in for all this extra fandangly sound stuff.


In short, all this complication is why I like retro, and have no interest in the next gen. My liking of the DC stems from it's relative simplicity as a games console. It was strictly for gaming. Pure and simple.

And yeah, I am feeling jaded and bitter this morning. It's been a looooong week.


/rant over

[Le Spank]

sega ready have the dreamcast2
http://www.system16.com/sega/hrdw_naomi2.html

... and the grpahics don't seem a million miles from what the Dreamcast was doing in 200/2001.

I always thought that work on the next console would start as soon as they have finalised the current one. Meaning that unless SEGA knew they were heading out of the hardware game they would have already made plans for a successor to the Dreamcast.

[Anthaemia.]

Even though Sega probably knew that the Dreamcast would be its last console, it's reasonable enough to assume that they also had at least the basic idea for a possible successor. I'd predict that any new console would have been similar to an existing arcade board, much like the Saturn and Titan or Dreamcast and NAOMI had definite links. However, virtually all of Sega's post-Dreamcast coin-op hardware was powered by variants on the NAOMI specification, and I really don't believe the gap between this and the NAOMI2 or even Hikaru would have justified a new system.

After all, wasn't there a rumoured performance upgrade intended for the Dreamcast that utilised its modem port? AM2 moved the home edition of Virtua Fighter 4 to the PlayStation2 because preliminary work on the Dreamcast proved that Sega's platform was unable to handle a worthwhile conversion, though with such a boost I can imagine this game - along with others such as Brave Firefighters, Air Trix, Super Monkey Ball (even though such a title was perfect for the Nintendo's GameCube demographic), Beach Spikers, further Virtua Striker sequels and even the Initial D series - being quite accurate.

The only hope now is that Microsoft will return a favour by allowing Sega to use its newly-licensed Xbox technology with some well-needed financial backing. With a Sega-branded catalogue including The House Of The Dead III (itself originally a Dreamcast game), Gunvalkyrie (and another), Jet Set Radio (once again!), Shenmue IIX (more!!), Sega GT Online (!!) and OutRun2 to name only a few, this might not be such a bad idea. Then again, there's always the possibility of an all-new system based on the Atomiswave specification, but this is also derived from the NAOMI architecture so maybe it might just be easier to convert existing software for the Dreamcast as budget releases?

[cos2k3]

After all, wasn't there a rumoured performance upgrade intended for the Dreamcast that utilised its modem port?


Interesting! Never heard that one

[GigaDrive]

sega ready have the dreamcast2
http://www.system16.com/sega/hrdw_naomi2.html

sorry, no.

NAOMI 2 is more like a "Super Dreamcast". NAOMI 2 has the exact same CPU as Dreamcast. it has the same rendering/rasterizing chip, only 2 of them instead of 1, plus a geometry co-processor.

NAOMI 2 was made in 1999, announced in 2000, and in arcades by 2001.


the real Dreamcast2 or successor to Dreamcast was in development from 1999 to 2001 before Sega pulled the plug. I have no info on it, other than vauge targets that Sega was reported to have set, like wanting at least 10 times more power than Dreamcast (NAOMI 2 only offers about 2-3 times more)..... so we are talking about a machine that would be at least twice as powerful as Xbox if not somewhat more.

the graphics chip would have probably been a custom PowerVR4 with on-chip geometry processor (unlike NAOMI 2 which had a seperate one)..... now even though PowerVR was by far the most likely choice for graphics provider........ I would say, as the thread starter mentioned, ATI would have been the best choice for graphics - a Radeon 9800 Pro (2003) or perhaps even the Radeon X800 (2004). since the release timeframe would have been 2003 or 2004... just about right to replace the Dreamcast which came out in 1998 and 1999.

no idea about the CPU. maybe SH6 maybe not. memory: probably 128 MB for CPU plus 128 MB for graphics. about half what Xbox 360 and PS3 have (512 MB)

overall the power of the Dreamcast2 would have been inbetween Xbox and Xbox360.

^remember these are not actual specs, just guessitmations based on Sega's habbits, logic, timeframe, available technology, etc.

[PrOfUnD Darkness]

After all, wasn't there a rumoured performance upgrade intended for the Dreamcast that utilised its modem port? AM2 moved the home edition of Virtua Fighter 4 to the PlayStation2 because preliminary work on the Dreamcast proved that Sega's platform was unable to handle a worthwhile conversion, though with such a boost I can imagine this game - along with others such as Brave Firefighters, Air Trix, Super Mon


Do you have any proof about this VF4 conversion?

[Mark30001]

I remember something like a Dreamcast Revolution was being in the works a while back.

Well, anyway, Sega should have merged with Nintendo & became one instead of also selling their games for Microsoft.

BAD GATES.....
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/images/billgate1.jpg (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/images/billgate1.jpg)

[XerdoPwerko]

God, does Bill Gates look sexy in that picture...

Man, my eyes are sore now.

[JTI2K]

now even though PowerVR was by far the most likely choice for graphics provider........ I would say, as the thread starter mentioned, ATI would have been the best choice for graphics - a Radeon 9800 Pro (2003) or perhaps even the Radeon X800 (2004). since the release timeframe would have been 2003 or 2004... just about right to replace the Dreamcast which came out in 1998 and 1999.

I dont know, an X850 is pretty expensive even today, and at that time it was still in develpment phase . BTW, I though that by 2002 videologic was already out of the GPU market so i didnt considered the VR4. Have any specs about it? just to know more (honestly i didnt knew it existed)



no idea about the CPU. maybe SH6 maybe not. memory: probably 128 MB for CPU plus 128 MB for graphics. about half what Xbox 360 and PS3 have (512 MB).

I did a report not too long ago, about Renesas CPUs and the SH6 didnt seem so impressive. I said X86 before but now i think that a custom PPC may be even cheaper. I dont know, we should go and see the detailed specs, after all another fan takes 5 extra mins in the assembly line, thus making the console more expensive to build.

This decisions take a lot of time, engineers and money, so its pretty hard to just name em in just a day.

And Szczepaniak, i know what you mean, but the reality is that a company need to fulfill the mainstreams needs, and cant focus on what the individual wants.

Man, i`ll buy any console that has a working VR headset, but a study says that most people isnt interested in a VR unit, thus making it a product with a very small branch in the market.

[JTI2K]

Gates looks like a crack whore in that photo :smt043

[Greatsaintlouis]

He could have made millions OUTSIDE of Microsoft if he had decided to pose for Playgirl at the time - yowza! :smt043


NAOMI 2 is more like a "Super Dreamcast"

Sega Genesis:32X -> Dreamcast:NAOMI 2?? :smt043

[XerdoPwerko]

True but disturbing little analogy, GSL.

Though Instead of Naomi 2 I'd say the modem-thing update proposed by Anthaemia

[JTI2K]

Though Instead of Naomi 2 I'd say the modem-thing update proposed by Anthaemia


Well after Gigadrives explanation of the Naomi2, i think that maybe the VF4 was exactly that: a module with the coprocessor and another NecVF GPU.

But, i need to say i never heard of any VF4 module, and maybe SEGA didnt even considered it becos of the mainstream view of their past addOn the 32X.

Anyways, the Naomi2 should be the DC: adding the extra GPU and coprocessor would only mean an increase of a mere 50$ in the price, and even at 299$ it will still be a great buy.

That and the GTA exclusivity :smt023

PD: i know GTA isnt a great game, but look at PS2. It practically owns this generations leadership to the series.

[Revelation]

Even though a Dreamcast 2 would be awesome I just don't think there is enough room for 4 major consoles in the market. I suppose if they timed the release date just right it might be a posssible success. Nevertheless, I would love to see a new Sega console.

[neomatrix]

Sega has better game that other system the is room for 4 major consoles

[JTI2K]

Even though a Dreamcast 2 would be awesome I just don't think there is enough room for 4 major consoles in the market.

Think that, if the DC had not left the market and with full game support, a very low price and the growing online capabilities it had, the market share of the others consoles would been dramtically affected. In fact the DC had a boom in its sales when it hit the 99$ price.

I say, if the DC wasnt cancelled it may have reached the 2nd place

[neomatrix]

Think that, if the DC had not left the market and with full game support, a very low price and the growing online capabilities it had, the market share of the others consoles would been dramtically affected. In fact the DC had a boom in its sales when it hit the 99$ price.

I say, if the DC wasnt cancelled it may have reached the 2nd place

I think
japan
1 place playstation 2 in japan
2 place dreamcast in japan
3 place nintendo game cube in japan
4 place x-box in japan

u.s.a
1 place x-box in u.s.a
2 place playstation 2 in u.s.a
3 place dreamcast in u.s.a
4 place nintendo game cube in u.s.a

[neozeed]

I dont know how you can work that out! as much as I love the Dreamcast it was on a drip feed by the time Sega stopped making them in Japan it was a bad failure in Japan.

[JTI2K]

Is kind of funny that the boom in the US sales was when everyone already kwen that SEGA was in its way to became a 3rd patie (thus ditching the DC)

And i never said that the DC would be a success in japan :smt083

[Anthaemia.]

Most of the Dreamcast magazines I've collected over the years are still at my parents' house, but from memory I recall the plans for a port-based hardware expansion unit being mentioned in either the UK official publication or DC-UK, though there was also another long-running series known as Unofficial Dreamcast Magazine (or something to that effect) that I sometimes bought as well, so the article could have been from one of many places.

Either way, there was definitely an article suggesting that Sega had been considering a Dreamcast upgrade. However, this was certainly not connected to a conversion of VF4. In fact, I'm fairly sure that Yu Suzuki even gave a brief press statement in which he said that such a project would only be given the go ahead if preliminary research concluded that any Dreamcast version would not be too badly compromised. Once again, I can't provide an exact source, but when you consider that this announcement was made sometime in 2001 then it's safe to presume that performance limitations AND the Dreamcast's imminent death forced VF4 onto the PS2.

[JTI2K]

Most "official" magazines tend to do a lot of hype to keep the buyers mind clear of any future problems and doubts about their buy.

And if was "somewhere" in 2001 it has to be before march, when SEGA told the world the DC was over :death

[Anthaemia.]

I'm not sure when the hardware upgrade story first began to circulate, though news of Yu Suzuki's plans for a Dreamcast conversion of VF4 came from the same time when Shenmue II appeared in the form of a video trailer - wasn't the GameJam show in early 2001?

[Nintendomad]

Dreamcast was the best of all the current gen console's as Sega had a clear plan and vision for the machine from the outset and stuck to it relgously, it was a success in my eye's and will never be seen as anything else to me now, people have a deep affection for the machine after all this time and the reason why is that it was fantastic, there is nothing else I can say about the machine.

Two thing's the machine could have benefitted from though was the BBA made widely available early and promoted heavily in countries that had BB access, and some sort of mass storage to accomodate new level's and download's and all the advantage's that come with mass storage, I still kinda loved the zip drive idea that Sega had, it would have really made the console a better experience online.

I still wish that they supported the dremacast and released the BBa and zip drive again for all of us fans and then set up some sort of Dreamcast live so that we could compete online with our DC's and download new level's for game's.Perhap's they may return to the Hardware business if Sony lose some of the massive marketshare that they have at the moment and there is a gap in the market that Sega can somehow penetrate, the company is certainly looking healthier by the month and stranger things have happened.

[XerdoPwerko]

I think NintyMad has said it correctly. The dreamcast was, indeed, the best machine this generation.
Too bad about marketing, though. It was marketing against a hyped ghost-console (PS2), and then Microsoft's financial power that eventually killed the DC. It was nothing related to quality or actual gaming.
Pure business. Sad.