Dreamcast GD-Rom Drive Emulation

[Treamcaster]

Long story short, can something be done about this system Krizz?

[MottZilla]

I think it was brought up before. The answer I think was not anytime soon.

[KRIKzz]

I have no plans to do something for CD systems

[APE]

I want an optical drive emulator for the Vectrex. :sorrow:

[cybdyn]

"Dreamcast GD-Rom Drive Emulation" is still under developing! ;)

dunno why не doesnt prefer cd systems. : less wires, async access to data, more powerful consoles. maybe more complex in developing.

APE - are you seriously about the Vectrex?

[amrod]

I was looking around and just found this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-SD-SDHC-Card-Reader-Adapter-For-SEGA-DC-Dreamcast-XCKDIY-2012-New-Version-/230805610204?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item35bd161edc#ht_1524wt_890

from what little I have read bout it, it seems to be interesting just limited to 32gb

[sonicdude10]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-SD-SDHC-Card-Reader-Adapter-For-SEGA-DC-Dreamcast-XCKDIY-2012-New-Version-/230805610204?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item35bd161edc#ht_1524wt_890

I have one and they don't work worth a crap. When they do work the load times for some games is so slow that they are non-playable.

[atreyu187]

I have over 100 SDISO's working at least 90% speed with the latest RC-1 build myself. Finished Skies of Arcadia last night using VGA form the USA version and it very playable. The SD card has came a long way lately.

[-=FamilyGuy=-]

I have over 100 SDISO's working at least 90% speed with the latest RC-1 build myself. Finished Skies of Arcadia last night using VGA form the USA version and it very playable. The SD card has came a long way lately. I'm impressed/sceptical about this. However, it'd be cool if someone could make a marketable dreamcast drive emulator, I'd sure be willing to pay from $50 to $150 for a unit depending on the quality. What'd be really great is a 2.5" sata/ide HDD case built in with a gd-emu board as a drop in replacement for the optical drive! Even beter would be to have a usb plug accessible from the lid to access the hdd. This would be "KRIKzz's quality level", but I'd take anything decent.

Good luck to those working on that!

ps: (cybgyn, am I right to assume you're russian?)

[atreyu187]

I just posted my pack of 100 SDISO's in the usual places give it a try, what do you have to lose? One thing should be said some games HAD CDDA but if they did it is gone as the app doesn't support CDDA playback. Neither do optical drive emulators, just look at the WODE. Ever tried to play F-Zero or Eternal Darkness? Zero sound as it doesn't and apparently can't support CDDA playback. So it is no fault of my own the CDDA is missing from some and not others. Also taking the SFD's down a notch in games like Spawn where Cacpom made them all 9,000 kilobits per second well outside of what VCD can handle and the SD card reader for that matter. But doing stuff like reducing bloated SFD files, converting ADX to 32k stereo instead of 44k stereo make a world of a difference in playback and nominal loss of quality, at least none I ever notice even on VGA. I take SFD's right up to the limit when downsampling at 1,150 kilobits and 32k stereo if it is of any use to you but yields much better results.

[Hedgeyourbets]

Pretty much every SDISO of atreyu's I've ever used has been of excellent quality and indeed every regular burnt to disc ISO too

[-=FamilyGuy=-]

Well seems it requires somewhat heavy downsampling, but still it's the closest we can get from playing dc from HDD right now. Unless the guy who was working on a BBA streaming program has succeeded. I'd still prefer a drive emulator, no offence. I love the sd-card adaptor (in fact I'm the one who convinced jj1odm to resume working on this little wonder), but unless there are 3rd party gd-burner and gd-r discs going on the market, the best thing for preservation would be a drive emulator. As for cdda, I think it's lazyness of developpers in face of the complexity of cdda/money they'd get in return, greed in a word. They knew the wode would sell wether it plays cdda or not, as it allows pirated games. Yet I find it stupid to buy a wode since every wii games works well on a hdd and gc one on sdhc... A drive emulator for DC should be focused on preservation rather than instant lower quality warez, there's cd-r for that.

[Treamcaster]

I'd sure be willing to pay from $50 to $150 for a unit depending on the quality. This would be "KRIKzz's quality level", but I'd take anything decent.


QFT.

[veganx]

I just posted my pack of 100 SDISO's in the usual places give it a try, what do you have to lose? One thing should be said some games HAD CDDA but if they did it is gone as the app doesn't support CDDA playback. Neither do optical drive emulators, just look at the WODE. Ever tried to play F-Zero or Eternal Darkness? Zero sound as it doesn't and apparently can't support CDDA playback. So it is no fault of my own the CDDA is missing from some and not others. Also taking the SFD's down a notch in games like Spawn where Cacpom made them all 9,000 kilobits per second well outside of what VCD can handle and the SD card reader for that matter. But doing stuff like reducing bloated SFD files, converting ADX to 32k stereo instead of 44k stereo make a world of a difference in playback and nominal loss of quality, at least none I ever notice even on VGA. I take SFD's right up to the limit when downsampling at 1,150 kilobits and 32k stereo if it is of any use to you but yields much better results.

I don't quite get the reason why CDDA would not be possible in ANY optical disc drive emulator.
Wode could support streaming audio and this subject was beat to death, the only reason it doesn't support is because wode developers don't feel like to.

If someone developed a GD Drive emulator it could have CDDA if this was aimed since the beginning.

I appreciate your work, Atreyu, I have your Tosec collection and it's a very nice project you're doing there.
The only thing is that Dream shell still sucks, it improved like hell since the RC4 beta to RC1 but it's still a small baby.

I bet the next update will be the one that will make it useful and will be closest thing to an ODE we'll have this year.
The HDD support will be awesome, even if it only support IDE HD.
Faster loading will also be there. I bet we are on the verge for the possibility of a DC with the entire library with just a press of a button, just like anything the Everdrive touched.

BTW, I bet if we did a fundraising for Krikzz develop the DC ODE he would agree. hahaha

[-=FamilyGuy=-]

QFT. Given the price of the existing everdrives products, the limited amount of potential customers, the amount of work involved and the need for a little profit, I think this is really fair. The existing everdrives products are a commercial success afaik (correct me if I'm wrong KRIKzz) even with this price range. Please note that I use the KRIKzz case as an example of similar products that were successful, I don't want to put pressure on KRIKzz.


I don't quite get the reason why CDDA would not be possible in ANY optical disc drive emulator.
Wode could support streaming audio and this subject was beat to death, the only reason it doesn't support is because wode developers don't feel like to.Just as I said, there were lazy and greedy, they knew it'd sell anyway. Fact is that if such a product get made for DC, it should be complete as it won't be a "piracy breakthrough" (aka "personal backup breakthrough"), we can already play downsampled/slow games on cd-r/sd. While cd-r is REALLY decent most of the time, quality varies depending on games and releases. For preservation purpose a disc emu would be the best option.

[veganx]

Given the price of the existing everdrives products, the limited amount of potential customers, the amount of work involved and the need for a little profit, I think this is really fair. The existing everdrives products are a commercial success afaik (correct me if I'm wrong KRIKzz) even with this price range. Please note that I use the KRIKzz case as an example of similar products that were successful, I don't want to put pressure on KRIKzz.


No one want to put pressure on Krikzz because we all know how much he works on his products. I've once pointed out (at another forum) the skunkboard, a flash cartridge for the Atari Jaguar.
It had 3 hardware revision, that means, the guy produced 200, then 200, and later 150. This piece of trash needs a computer to flash the games, which is a pain, it also includes 3 usb ports, one mini where you flash the games, 2 regular which you could use for an USB storage.
You know how many software improvements it got since the first? 0
The software is the same since the first batch. The same happens with the Atari Lynx flash cartridge.
Now analyze this fact and compare to the amazing support Krikzz put on his products.

That being taken of my chest, moving to the Everdrive market. The everdrive requires a console and the cartridge, nothing else. A monkey could play the ED on any system.
Now if you produce a GD Rom replacement it's impossible to build one that would not require opening the console or soldering.
This would cut down the public by 1/3 or even less.
Only real hardcore fans would be interested in a GD Rom emulator.

[-=FamilyGuy=-]

A 10 years old kid with a screwdriver can swap a gd-rom optical drive for another one, or for an hypothetical emulator. in fact the drive connects to the mobo pretty much like a cardridge does, it's a socket and a connector that slides in each others.

[veganx]

But you need to open the console. You know lots of people would avoid even changing a lamp, imagine changing our hypothetical drive emulator.

[Aydan]

Despite the difficulty, the day that Dreamcast games can be loaded from an SD card, USB card or external hard-drive will be one of the greatest leaps of technology for any retro fan. I know there's a basic SD thing out there but I've heard so much mixed messages as most of them seem negative. The idea of being able to rip my GD roms and play them without any loss in quality and without worrying about my dreamcast laser dying would be awesome. Of course I'd rather see this happen on the PS1 first. The library of games on that system is unlike anything else out there.

[sonicdude10]

So the big question now is this: Is ANYONE stil working on this thing? I've been waiting for 2 years for one to be made with no luck. WHY??? The PS2, PS3, Xbox, Xbox 360, Gamecube, and Wii all have something like this. Why did Sega get left in the cold? I geuss I'm what some would call a "diehard fan" since I've opened mine up so many times I've lost track. Swapping the GD ROM for an IDE PCB board would be nothing for me. Getting software and ISO files set up as well would be easy for me. Someody get a move on with this 'cause I'd pay for one even if it is rather costly. Yeah, I'm that much of a diehard fan.

[veganx]

Well, except for the gamecube and the wii (wii has 2.0 usb) every console you named has native HD support so iso loading was kind of easy to implement via software only.

And the sad answer to your question is: no, no one is working at the Dreamcast GD-Rom emulator and that sucks.

[Treamcaster]

I believe that there's plenty of Dreamcast fans around the world willing to see this happen. If the word got spread across many blogs/ social networks/ forums/ etc, I'm sure this could turn into something very profitable. Why not start a kickstarter project? Again, no pressure intended.

[sonicdude10]

Facebook group created for this: http://www.facebook.com/groups/336612363081189/#!/groups/336612363081189/

[cybdyn]

http://krikzz.com/res/ed64/ed64_t.jpg

believe me or not, but Krikzz's ED64 is easy reprogram for emulating ps1/ps2/dc and for other consoles)).. it contains all parts it need for emu. the question is only in new firware of FPGA)) i can make it... BUT i have no ED64, i'll make my own.

[sonicdude10]

http://krikzz.com/res/ed64/ed64_t.jpg

believe me or not, but Krikzz's ED64 is easy reprogram for emulating ps1/ps2/dc and for other consoles)).. it contains all parts it need for emu. the question is only in new firware of FPGA)) i can make it... BUT i have no ED64, i'll make my own.

I have the ED64 model in picture complete with USB port, casing, and 6102 CIC. Interested in it? PM if you want it cybdyn. I'll sell at reasonable price.

[AlecRob]

I have no plans to do something for CD systems

but what about GD systems?

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q534/AlecRob/Troll_face.png

[veganx]

L O L

made my day!

[sonicdude10]

L O L

Made my day!

ME TOO!

[cybdyn]

sonicdude10 - thanks, i'll keep it in mind.

[nonesuch]

I've often wondered if anyone knew more about how Sega's Naomi hardware works. Wikipedia claims, with absolutely no references or attribution, that this arcade version of the Dreamcast was available either with simple ROM chips for game storage or a RAM-cached GDROM drive. Presumably these were using the same data interface as the Dreamcast's disc drive? Could any similar system be used to interface with the GD drive, using flash memory instead of ROM? Who knows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Naomi#Sega_Naomi

[Dandy_Sephy]

The disc drive for Naomi is basically a casing and interface for the DC disc drive - you can swap the internal actual drive units between the two. However the actual data interface is different, as is the data handling itself. Aside for the shared drive unit they operate in completely different ways. For example when a Naomi disc boots up it copies all it's data into ram before running, so the game essentially behaves as a massive cartridge. Dreamcast has to access the data from disc as it's needed, with games coded specifically to address this. The two systems have a lot in common but also a lot of differences which make a working DC solution extremely difficult whereas it's trivial to do on a Naomi now the security is long bypassed (providing you have the data).

No amount of facebook groups or money will result in a working solution. What it will take is hard working skilled people working on it constantly and sharing information. Even then it won't be quick or simple a process.

If anything social media and the idea of making a profit are the worst things you could do. Social media only attracts interest of people who want the hard work done for them and thoughts of profit should come after making a actual solution, and even then I wouldn't think about making money on it at all.

[cybdyn]

i still work on this project, why does anyone say that "there is no one.."

it can be made faster if i can share my ideas with Krikzz capability of developing PCB, all debuging work i can make myself.
but what we can do, He likes old-style cartridge based consoles like Sega MD....

[Greg2600]

Hasn't it been rumored that the maker of that new 3DO hard drive board may make one for DC?

As for that USB/SD device, I can't believe a game could be loaded at all through a regular serial port like the DC has. Way too slow.

[StoneAgeGamer]

Hasn't it been rumored that the maker of that new 3DO hard drive board may make one for DC?

As for that USB/SD device, I can't believe a game could be loaded at all through a regular serial port like the DC has. Way too slow.

I am going to begin carrying 3DO IDE Adapter soon and I have been encouraging him that DC would be next system to do if he can. Told him would supply him whatever he needs to get it done.

[YAGRS]

I am going to begin carrying 3DO IDE Adapter soon and I have been encouraging him that DC would be next system to do if he can. Told him would supply him whatever he needs to get it done.

That's great news! I'll be looking for it.

[maringouin11]

I am going to begin carrying 3DO IDE Adapter soon and I have been encouraging him that DC would be next system to do if he can. Told him would supply him whatever he needs to get it done.
Great news ! Looking forward to this

[sonicdude10]

DC would be next system to do if he can. Told him would supply him whatever he needs to get it done.

Looking forward to it if this guy can do it. And to think, all the interest in getting this idea back up and running was started by me with my thread in the Dreamcast section. ["Let's make Dreamcast GD ROM emulation happen" group on Facebook.] thread. I hope this guy does it. I'd be all over that. Get at least 3 if they ever get made.

[Tricky]

I am going to begin carrying 3DO IDE Adapter soon and I have been encouraging him that DC would be next system to do if he can. Told him would supply him whatever he needs to get it done.


Yesssss, definitely going to be getting one as soon as they're in stock :D

[SnoopKatt]

I would be down for one as well. I used to be an administrator on a Dreamcast forum, and back in the day, we would've killed for something like this (this was 4 to 7 years ago). With all the advancements in technology for retro consoles, it would be awesome to see this come to life!

[PSPdemon]

Although this isn't really dreamcast related....I wonder how hard it would be to make a naomi flashcart of some form... ( besides the cf adapter thing they have )

[Dandy_Sephy]

The CF stuff works because it uses the same principals as the original GDROM. Naomi is built to load games one way only, GDROM and CF work because they essentially present themselves as an emulated cartridge once loaded into the system. This means that the game is read entirely into the ram in the DIMM board and any loading is done from that ram. netboot works because it's a system Sega designed themselves and for use by arcade operators so the system already knows how to handle it. CF Loading uses the exact same process, just with a new security routine. Using homemade readers and cards is done by using the same security system as Sega (just with small changes for using non approved flash cards such as a slightly modified firmware for the NET DIMM).

Making a flashcart seems rather unnecessary when you can already load any rom you want via net booting. The effort doesn't seem worth bothering with when there are existing solutions doing most of the same job already. Even without thinking about how to go about programming something like that, I'm not sure how it would physically interact with the way the system works.

Any windows laptop running XP onwards should be able to netboot a naomi, and you can buy an old one for less than a flashcart would cost.

[CodeAsm]

If I get myself a DC, I am willing to spend some time and money on this emulation stuff... but because time and free time are sometimes a bit diferent Ill Donate monies if possible and do research on subjects as needed. Sharing Info is very importand. While this post doas not contain very usefull info, I just end this post saying Good luck and ill be watching actively this project. btw, Nice progress already, protocols and fpga connected and all. Wish I had an fpga :D