Best SNES revision

[gray.fullbusterzzz]

EDIT: For those of you who want answers the best SNES console is an RGB modded SNES mini/jr. It is a very easy mod, just make sure your RGB cable has capacitors in it. Here is a guide http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:snes2rgb.

If you want details then go to JimmyCrackCorn's post (post #3).

I highly recommend you enter your SNES serial number and chip versions in the database

http://superfamicom.org/console-serial-database

My original post is below.

With the SD2SNES on it's way I have been trying to work out what the best SNES version would be.

The gripes I've found with SNES consoles are

1. The super annoying vertical line in the center of the screen

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?18935-SNES-vertical-line-issue

2. Non-1chip consoles don't display as nicely

http://sd2snes.de/blog/archives/75

3. SNES mini/jr have some low level differences which affects certain games

"There are "drastic" changes. Not so much stuff that's going to affect most games directly, but stuff that tells you the chip is radically different on the inside. Things like the SMP Timer Glitch vanishing, different behaviors of the TEST register, some DSP subtleties, the PPU being entirely different, and mid-scanline effects are totally different which affects games like A.S.P. Air Strike Patrol where the plane's shadow is almost invisible."

http://superfamicom.org/console-serial-database


So from this I've come to the conclusion that 1chip standard size SNES consoles are the best in terms of picture quality. They have the crisp 1chip picture quality and no SNESmini/jr glitches. From what I can gather about the vertical line issue it affects different units to varying degrees, however I can't find any information about how to avoid it.

Your thoughts and opinions?

[ViperVisor]

Interesting. And cool thing is I just happened to buy The Lion King and can enter into the database.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

I can be of some help since I am a lunatic who purchased every single SNES revision, and I am also very picky when it comes to visual stuff. All my consoles are RGB (even my NES) and I have an XRGB Mini Framemeister ($500) going to a DVDO Edge upscaler ($700) going to a 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma TV.

The RGB-02 is the rarest version (it came with the Killer Instinct bundle which is pretty rare; it's pretty much any SNES1 released in 1995). This came out after the 1CHIP version.

All the units from launch until the 1CHIP version have pretty crappy picture quality. The 1CHIP picture quality is wonderful in comparison. The RGB-02 which came out after the 1CHIP looks just as crappy as everything before the 1CHIP. This is especially interesting because the RGB-02 is the only model of the SNES model 1 that has the BA6596 encoder, which is the same encoder the SNES2/mini/Jr. has. Apparently the encoder is not what makes the SNES2's picture quality so nice, because it's in the RGB-02 which looks terrible.

The SNES2 (aka Jr. or Mini) has just as nice picture quality, if not better than the 1CHIP model 1. This is because on the 1CHIP SNES1 there is that ugly vertical line still present. This line is not there at all in the SNES2. Ok, I should be a little particular here...it's still there in the model 2 but is almost literally impossible to see it.

The easiest game to see the vertical streak is in Final Fantasy 3 US. It should be noticeable as soon as you turn the game on and see the white logo and then the stormy clouds. On the model 1, I see it in every revision. On the model 2 (the mini) I do not see it in FF3US unless I am using a Powerpak. Using a legit FF3US cart I own, or the Everdrive (good job, Krikzz!) the vertical streak can literally not be seen unless playing FF3US with the Retrozone Powerpak. So using the worst game for vertical streak detection on a PowerPak is the only way I get the vertical streak on the SNES2/mini/Jr.

For this reason alone the SNES2/mini/Jr. is easily the best revision. Unfortunately you need to mod the system to get RGB working but it's literally 4 puny wires. I was able to do it and I never soldered before in my life.

The 1CHIP model 1 is very good, yes. It's the only SNES model 1 I find acceptable. However, the vertical streak, coupled with a bit of picture noise (moving artifacts and lines within the thick vertical line) makes me never want to use it. It's unfortunate, since I like the look of the model 1 and all my friends think the model 2/mini/jr is bootleg when they first see it, but picture quality trumps all. If for some reason you HAVE to use a model 1 (again, I wish I could because I love the look of it and I have a storage unit that fits the model 1), the 1CHIP model is undoubtedly the one to get. But if picture quality is your #1 concern, definitely get the mini and RGB/s-video mod it.

Keep in mind since I am being very thorough here that there is a strange "ghosting" effect I get on the model 2. Other people get it to, but I literally did not notice it until someone pointed it out. It's almost impossible to see; I actually was only able to see it in Donut Plains 4 in Super Mario World at the very end of the level where the green mountains in the background are. You'll see a very faint outline of your character a few inches over from where he is standing. Again you'd have to look for it to notice it, and it's so rare to see it. I could not see it under any other circumstances. The thick vertical line is noticeable no matter what; and I can't ignore that thing, so the model 1 unfortunately is unusable to me. It really stinks because again I love the way the model 1 physically looks.

One other thing I will add in this long post is that I tried everything to remove the thick line from the model 1. First of all, it's present in every model including the rare RGB-02 and the 1CHIP. Secondly, I desoldered the RF module inside the SNES to see if that would help (it did not). I removed shielding, even added shielding, neither did anything. I have no clue what else to try.

An interesting angle to try to get the vertical line removed from the SNES system is probably focusing on the power the system is using. I was able to determine the vertical line is worse when using the PowerPak. Keep in mind that on an NES, the Powerpak also increases the jailbars! I think it more has to do with increased power draw than an actual interference; or else why would I only see the vertical line in the SNES2 using a PowerPak, but it's not there when using an Everdrive? Something to think about to lead us into the right direction!

Hope this post was helpful. I sure did spend enough money finding all the SNES revisions, so I figured I would spread the wealth (of knowledge).

[sdekaar]

i haven't any memory about this problem.
maybe an composite/svhs issue. :/

[Woz]

I registered just to say, JimmyCrackCorn, you are amazing. Fucking magnificent.

You need to post more, possibly start a blog.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

I registered just to say, JimmyCrackCorn, you are amazing. Fucking magnificent.

You need to post more, possibly start a blog.

haha thanks!

Honestly I can just keep posting my findings here. Perhaps someone will be able to take my info and figure out how to rid that crazy vertical streak so we can have an SNES1 with SNES2 picture quality; then we'll all gain something! :very_drunk:

[sparksterz]

I was actually one of the ones to post on Sega-16's forum. I have a model 1 SNES that's the 1 chip model that is affected by the vertical streak. The first game I noticed it on was Actraiser. I don't have a powerpak/Super Everdrive yet. I'll be waiting for the SD2SNES

[MottZilla]

Does using a better more stable power supply help? If power draw is the issue, that should help. The other possibility could be electronic noise generated by the cartridge maybe.

[derekb]

I can be of some help since I am a lunatic who purchased every single SNES revision, and I am also very picky when it comes to visual stuff. All my consoles are RGB (even my NES) and I have an XRGB Mini Framemeister ($500) going to a DVDO Edge upscaler ($700) going to a 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma TV.


I'm just curious why you're running both the XRGB and the DVDO, doesn't the mini framemeister perform upscaling itself?

[JimmyCrackCorn]

I'm just curious why you're running both the XRGB and the DVDO, doesn't the mini framemeister perform upscaling itself?

I actually don't have a good answer for you. I just don't really want to sell the DVDO Edge on eBay because I've been ripped off on eBay before. Also, the DVDO Edge takes the Dreamcast via VGA to RGBHV and the XRGB Mini doesn't. The DVDO Edge is also very good at upscaling anything not 240p.


Does using a better more stable power supply help? If power draw is the issue, that should help. The other possibility could be electronic noise generated by the cartridge maybe.

This is a very good theory! I have a 3rd party SNES power adapter I will try when I get home. I would be very surprised, though, because Nintendo usually has high quality stuff. I'd be surprised if a 3rd party power adapter would give a "cleaner" power. Unless you think it just needs to be higher amperage or something? Electronic noise is another very good possibility, though I'm not too sure because even retail carts produce it?

[Rodrigo]

LOL, I am almost buying a SNES2 because of Jimmy's post. :-P

[DarthCloud]

So far the best one is the 1CHIP version. I discussed this already over there: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=1380

If you check the post from about 2 month till now their is a lot of feedback regarding this.


I'm also currently maintain this list to help people easily locate the SNES version they want by looking at the serial:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AvE57-VbN9_HdEpkUUR0U1hzMHFWVWw3VXhORHFIanc&output=html

Btw if you guys can check the PCB version by opening yours SNES and sending me the info that would be cool :D

[JimmyCrackCorn]

LOL, I am almost buying a SNES2 because of Jimmy's post. :-P

It's definitely the best looking video quality wise, but if you want the SNES1 the 1CHIP is the best. Don't forget the SNES2 requires wiring up 4 wires inside the system. It's a very simple mod, though.

[MottZilla]

This is a very good theory! I have a 3rd party SNES power adapter I will try when I get home. I would be very surprised, though, because Nintendo usually has high quality stuff. I'd be surprised if a 3rd party power adapter would give a "cleaner" power. Unless you think it just needs to be higher amperage or something? Electronic noise is another very good possibility, though I'm not too sure because even retail carts produce it?

The issue is that the PowerPAK probably draws more power than Nintendo intended when they produced the Power Supply for the SNES. I think the SNES only had a 850ma power supply which may be stressed more by the PowerPAK. If you instead use a power supply that can provide more like 1amp or more you might not see this issue.

The EverDrive may not have this issue because it uses Flash Memory which requires less power than the SDRAM in the PowerPAK.

[ViperVisor]

I still have a Jr but I am OK with S-Video with my big SNES to my 240lb Trinitron CRT. I can tweak the picture settings a little to try and get closer to the color and contrast of the RGB.

Certainly better than what I originally was gaming on in the 90s. I don't think black existed on the 20" Zenith in my parents room. But that thing did last for 20 years.

[gray.fullbusterzzz]

The issue is that the PowerPAK probably draws more power than Nintendo intended when they produced the Power Supply for the SNES. I think the SNES only had a 850ma power supply which may be stressed more by the PowerPAK. If you instead use a power supply that can provide more like 1amp or more you might not see this issue.

The EverDrive may not have this issue because it uses Flash Memory which requires less power than the SDRAM in the PowerPAK.

The PAL SNES power adapter supplies 1.2 amps so maybe that would make some difference for PAL users. Maybe not though because I use a third party Super Famicom power supply which gives 1.11 amps and there is a VERY noticeable vertical line with the PowerPak. I'll do some tests comparing the PowerPak and ED later today and edit them into this post.

EDIT
Either my PowerPak is screwed (5 year warranty YAY) or my already troublesome SNES doesn't want to boot it. I might buy a new console in a few days so if that happens I'll do the tests next week.

[MottZilla]

Could still be electronic noise of somekind. You could try shielding the powerpak cartridge to see if that helps. Afterall the cartridge actually lacks any RF shielding as I recall.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

Could still be electronic noise of somekind. You could try shielding the powerpak cartridge to see if that helps. Afterall the cartridge actually lacks any RF shielding as I recall.

The regular carts and Everdrive don't have shielding either, though!

Just tried a different 3rd party power supply and the issue was not resolved, unfortunately!

[MottZilla]

You don't understand. The PowerPAK and other devices may cause alot more RF interference. Regular carts obviously don't, and don't need any shielding. The PowerPAK was never licensed by the FCC and has no shielding. That doesn't mean that adding shielding couldn't cut down on electronic noise. It's hard to say.

If it's not a power issue though, then I would guess it's a shielding/noise issue.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

You don't understand. The PowerPAK and other devices may cause alot more RF interference. Regular carts obviously don't, and don't need any shielding. The PowerPAK was never licensed by the FCC and has no shielding. That doesn't mean that adding shielding couldn't cut down on electronic noise. It's hard to say.

If it's not a power issue though, then I would be it's a shielding/noise issue.

Okay then how about the fact that the noise is there with a legit FF3 cart? And why would the cart product noise on the SNES1 but not the mini?

Also, I did try adding shielding, it made no difference.

[technohat]

I should probably point out that the original Super Nintendos had more power available through the cartridge port. The early SNES game copiers would draw power from the cartridge port to operate. Nintendo reduced the amount of power in later revisions to combat this, but the cart copier companies just started using external power supplies. If I remember correctly, when attempting to use a Super Wild Card copier on the later models the screen would flash like crazy while trying to load a game and then the loading would fail. This happened around the same time Nintendo also removed the plastic cartridge lock from the system.

[MottZilla]

Well I don't know, I'm not an electrical engineer. But I do recall issues like the Game Doctor SF series would cause RF video to be terrible because of RF noise from the unit.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

I should probably point out that the original Super Nintendos had more power available through the cartridge port. The early SNES game copiers would draw power from the cartridge port to operate. Nintendo reduced the amount of power in later revisions to combat this, but the cart copier companies just started using external power supplies. If I remember correctly, when attempting to use a Super Wild Card copier on the later models the screen would flash like crazy while trying to load a game and then the loading would fail. This happened around the same time Nintendo also removed the plastic cartridge lock from the system.

What was the reason Nintendo removed the cartridge lock/changed the shape of the cartridges? I always wondered that. It's funny seeing different looking versions of the same US game.


Well I don't know, I'm not an electrical engineer. But I do recall issues like the Game Doctor SF series would cause RF video to be terrible because of RF noise from the unit.

Yeah I have a Gamedoctor I was able to test; there's RF noise and interference but it's nothing close to the thick vertical line. It's not even the same kind of visual defec.t

[MottZilla]

At this point, ask Calpis or something else with some kind of electronics background.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

To be honest I've all but given up. I'm simply going to place my SNES2 motherboard inside an SNES1 shell, which other than having to rewire the multi out and controller ports, isn't such a big project.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

I actually have a fairly big update.


I'm almost totally done converting an SNES2 motherboard to fit in an SNES1 case when after rewiring everything, for video I only connected the R, G, B and csync lines to the multi AV out. The picture was visible but dark, had a decent amount of snow, and some colors were funky. Anyway, there it was: the vertical line. I managed to make it show up in an SNES2, in any game on any screen. When I hooked up the 5V and ground wires to the multiAV out, it was gone... literally impossible to see if I tried.


So basically that streak in the model 1 has to have something to do with the 5V or ground. Now if I could only figure out what that thing was.

[Bad_Ad84]

You need ground wired up...

[JimmyCrackCorn]

You need ground wired up...

Yep I know, I was just testing stuff out. I thought it was interesting that without ground and 5V wired up the vertical bar was there. Just trying to lead everyone in the right direction to figuring out why it's in the model 1 systems.

[APE]

DarthCloud, got a SNES revision+serial for you:

Model: SNN-CPU-01
Serial: UC308604405

[dragpm131]

I should probably point out that the original Super Nintendos had more power available through the cartridge port. The early SNES game copiers would draw power from the cartridge port to operate. Nintendo reduced the amount of power in later revisions to combat this, but the cart copier companies just started using external power supplies. If I remember correctly, when attempting to use a Super Wild Card copier on the later models the screen would flash like crazy while trying to load a game and then the loading would fail. This happened around the same time Nintendo also removed the plastic cartridge lock from the system.

Interesting.I remember from snes dev manual,nintendo advertise you,(when you designing a game to the fx chip),yo need program a limitation in software so you can`t use the multiplayer accesory.Because yo can overcome easy the power aviable fron the transform of snes.

But in Doom you can use the xband accesory to play online.So this means more power drained from cartridge.And if nintendo limited the power in later revisions.Maybe the doom with the xband can't work in later models?.

[technohat]

What was the reason Nintendo removed the cartridge lock/changed the shape of the cartridges? I always wondered that. It's funny seeing different looking versions of the same US game.


I believe it was a combination of cost savings and consumer complaints. I think some people had a hard time turning the system off and on because the cartridge lock had to slide in and out of the thin slot on the carts and it was sometimes a tight fit.

[ApolloBoy]

Here's my Super Famicom:

Serial: S15600248
Model: SHVC-CPU-01

[Eviltaco64]

I'm certainly not an electrical engineer, but I've noticed that vertical bars can also come from certain AC Adapters as well as your method of connecting the console to the TV.

I had a late TMSS Sega Genesis (1993?) that produced a rather nice picture through composite. I ended up losing the original AC Adapter, though, and had to go pick up a cheap 3rd party replacement from an indie game shop. What a dramatic reduction in quality. Whenever the console was on, it produced high-pitched frequencies and some strange video output errors.

In most instances that I've seen a SNES output vertical bars, it's also hooked up to something with additional upscalers, filters, or velocity modulation. I believe these additional features bring out more of the picture than Nintendo had initially intended. I'd honestly say that your best bet is to use an NTSC TV that isn't too significantly bright but still outputs a wide spectrum of colors.

(edit) Hooking the SNES up to a VCR through composite and hooking the VCR up through RF might reduce the on-screen interference too. It might reduce the picture and sound a little bit more, and create some new interference, but with a composite -> RF solution, the picture and sound are actually defined rather nicely compared to an RF box. :P

[HMPoweredMan]

What is the difference between
SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01 and SNS-CPU-1CHIP-02 ?

[JimmyCrackCorn]

What is the difference between
SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01 and SNS-CPU-1CHIP-02 ?



I have never heard of this model. Can you post a pic? Does the image quality look better than other models?

Also, here's something weird. I have an SNES Mini/2/jr that does not have the BA6596F!

http://i.imgur.com/0EDC2.jpg

Strange, no?

[amptor]

I've been trying to figure out why it has this vertical bar issue since I got my SWC DX in 1995. That sucker makes a very noticable vertical streak in games and I usually notice it in Megaman X. But I would still prefer to play these games on actual console than emulator. I like how the SNES outputs video although yeah it looks like the worse of the two photos on Ikari's page since I do not own a 1chip or SNES2 1chip deck.

So all I did was try changing cables. I ended up with a monster s-video cable. It cleaned up the image quite a bit but the vertical bar is still there. I have been playing Megaman X2 from sd2snes for a bit and it has the vertical bar in there.

Another thing is I never tried to see if this vertical bar is present on special chip games. I don't remember noticing it in Kirby Superstar which I played more than practically any SNES game that I own. But it might be there. I'll have to check. The reason why I mention this is because the ground on the cart has a clip that attaches it to the shielding of the cartridge slot which I would assume means that it gives the cartridge a solid ground to the motherboard's ground which is probably the -12V DC on the power supply (assuming that this is a 12V power supply I don't have a PSU with me to check.. it was somewhere 9V-14V but I forgot what it is really rated at.

The power supply of the deck itself probably is a good one. I haven't read problems about it like on the Genesis model 1 (which can obliterate ROM if you accidentally unplug a cart while still powered on among other things).

I would like to fix this issue but it doesn't bother me a whole lot. I learned to live with it and I rarely notice it.

I think I should see if FX, SDD-1, and SA-1 games are affected as well. I guess they probably are though.

You guys realize there is one very noticable difference between an N64 cart and a SNES cart. The shielding. Those suckers are heavy because they have a full RFI shield around the entire PCB which appears to hook directly up to the cartridge slot's grounding plate on the outside when inserting. I think Nintendo may have known about RFI problems with the SNES for a number of years just never fixed it because not enough people really seemed to notice or complain. I mean think of it this way, us 80's kids were coming off of coleco and NES sets on RFU and going to SNES still on RFU on old early to mid 1980s manufactured televisions. Most of us didn't notice the glaring defects in products because our TV sets were quite literally junk all the while. But hey, at least they worked and got the job done :P

For a long while I thought the vertical bar was because the SWC was drawing a lot of power from the deck or the motorola cpu inside it was causing this anomale. But apparantly it wasn't related to the hardware inside of the swc though since it occurs on other carts and hardware.

I think what needs to be done is experimenting with the RF shielding of the cart as mentioned previously and seeing if whatever is inserted in the cartridge slot is causing too much power draw which is causing some kind of signal drop in the video output. Although since it is ever present, I would guess that if you put together a kit and boost the signal of the video output, anything that has interference is going to get boosted across too so the line will probably become magnified in presense. It's going to take someone who really knows what they are doing to fix this. I guess if someone is really good with an oscilloscope and micro circuitry they could probably trace it back to the root cause of the problem pretty quickly.

I only know the basic stuff. Cabling, shielding, and that 75ohm impedance match to the TV set (well in the USA anyways) and the fact that the cable has to be able to carry that 75ohms of impedence. It might not be related to any of this. Also I doubt very many people are going to actually makeshift an RFI shield into a cart and seal it up and game, especially not for all the legit carts that they own.

Maybe if more current at the same voltage is applied to the cartridge slot it might have some affect. I wouldn't want to overdo anything. I think applying more current is a start but don't change the voltage; you will fry a lot of stuff doing that.

Oh and come to think of it on current, if someone's vertical bar is more noticable with one flash cart than another (or legit cart opposed to snes powerpak or neoflash snes myth, or even swc dx in my case well I own all of these) then it sounds like that would be directly related to current (amps, mah, however it is rated) than anything else. One cartridge will require the same voltage and more amps than another in that case.

[APE]

One more for the database:

Serial: UN271967644
Mobo: SNES-CPU-GPM-02

[gs37]

For what it's worth, ensure the SNES and TV are plugged into the same power strip. Preferably a high quality one that is well shielded. I think things can get weird if the grounds are different.

[sdekaar]

super famicom
s/n:s17057686
mobo:shvc-cpu-01

s/n:s1094115
mobo:shvc-cpu-01

[keropi]

I have a PAL SNES and a PowePak... never seen that stripe... will triple check now that I know where to look ...
I am using a genuine Nintendo RGB scart cable and the machine is a SNSP-001A (UKV) #UP13922479 (don't remember the mobo rev)

edit: it's SNSP-CPU-02

[Eyedunno]

Nice call on FFVI being a good way to see the vertical line. I had previously used Seiken Densetsu 2/Secret of Mana by riding Flammie after the rise of the Mana Fortress. In either case, SD2SNES does not have the problem to NEARLY the same degree - I can't tell the difference from the original cart on my 2/1/3 original Super Famicom (don't know if it's 1chip or not).

[keropi]

I have just tested my snes+powerpak setup and have noticed that stripe in the middle of the screen. It's even noticeable on the PowerPak menu, no need to load a rom. Using a PAL console with the original 1.3A psu (mobo is SNSP-CPU-02)

[Captain_N]

I have a very early SNES model. It was definitely manufactured before the cart change. I got it very close to launch maybe 2 months after USA launch. Im using a 19inch CRT Konka TV with RF connection. The SNES is the first console in the dasichain of RF BOXES. (warning a wall of text Below)

I am to getting interference when i use my super wild card DX2. when playing games i also notice the vertical line in the middle. The RF Interference that everyone describes is also present. I never used a ac adapter for the unit because i always have loaded games off my trusty parallel port ZIP 100. (if you want to load games from zip there is only 1 version of external zip drive that works with the SWC DX2). Games load off the Floppy great as well. The screen does flash a little when the floppy drive is reading the disk(yeah power draw).

On my setup i can determine most of the Rf Interference is coming from the parallel zip drive cable. if i turn on the snes and move the parallel zip cable around i can reduce or increase the interference. If i hold the cable with my hands the interference is minimal, but as soon as i let go the interference is back. I then wrapped the cable in aluminum Foil and now i get minimal interference. IT seems the Cable is picking up some kinda RF interference and transferring it in to the SNES Through the SWC. no matter the setup the Stripe in the Middle of the screen is always there. On My friends SNES the SWC will barely load a game off a floppy(but i use the zip drive so floppy don't matter).(He must have the Newer Revision as he got his a bit after me when we was kids). The same RF interference that's present on mine is present on his. If i place a cart on top of the SWC there is slightly more RFI then no cart on top. If i place the Power pack on the SWC i get 50% more RFI. If i turn on the SWC with out powering the Zip drive there is about 10% more IF then with it powered. also when playing some games most notably battle toads and Double dragon on SWC the RFI will sometimes be only 1/3 of the screen. This seems to depend on the type of music plaing in the game and whats displayed on the screen.
SO the RFI will vary sometimes.

BTW if your wondering the SWC wont boot the powerpack. it don't even read it.

Using my SNES Powerpack the vertical stripe is there only when loading a game from Compact flash to internal memory. After the game is loaded i dont even see the stripe.

I can also confirm the stripe with the 2 other SNES Copiers i have, The Super UFO 8 and the Gamedoctor SF7. The Super UFO and the Gamedoctor SF7 have worse interference and the vertical stripe is also present. With no ac adaptor the RFI is much less. i know that most of the RFI is do to the ac power adapter that you have to use with those units. These 2 units will not power the floppy drive using the internal SNES Power. The weird thing is the vertical stripe will be clear but everything else will be snowy.

If i take off the SWC and use a real cart there is relativity no interference. so these devices have to be generating the interference. I just wish i had a oscilloscope then i could determine the exact type of RFI and figure out its source. Not only does there seem to be a there a power ISSUE, but also a grounding issue perhaps. all the excess RFI generated by these devices seems to be feeding back in to the device. since the RFI somtimes varies with the sound output and graphic display it has to be some kind of feed back. The zip drives paralles cable seems to be acting as a large antenna that draws in externial RFI and also captures the radiating internal RFI and then sends it right back in to the SNES. The reason i think this is due to the Foil on the zip drive cable that blocks the external RFI. its basically acting like a Faraday cage.

I would love to test the Ever Drive and others but i dont have these devices... Yet.
I was also thinking,...?!!! there is a offical device similar to a our flash carts and thats the Super gameboy. The super gameboy is a snes cart with gameboy hardware in it. it also has to read GB carts. That should be a similar power drain the everdrive,sd2snes and powerpack. I have a Super gameboy so i can do a few tests with it. I do know for a fact that there was never a verticle stripe or RFI when i used it about 10 years ago. I have not really played with it using any of the copiers.

If yall want me to do any tests with the devices i have id be glad to help. I also have a second SNES that is a bit newer then mine. Same RFI and Stripe occurre on it. I with i had the SNES mini so i could test that. I also got to get one of them clone SNES consoles so i can test that. Id also love to test the SWC on a portable SNES clone like the supaboy and see what the heck it does. My bet is the SWC power drain will bust the portable. But if it did work i wonder if wed get the verticle Stripe?

[Eyedunno]

Did you try FF3US on your PowerPak? I bet you'll see the vertical stripe during the intro, even with low RF quality.

[j1eazy]

Excellent information! I've run this across a couple of forums so far looking for any help I might find.

I have 4 model-1 SNES systems right now: SHVC-CPU-01, SNS-GPM-CPU-01, SNS-GPM-CPU-02, and the SNS-1CHIP-CPU-01. Now, this is concerning a couple of games and maybe even more. Pocky & Rocky and Super Ghouls and Ghosts are glitchy as hell on my SNS-1CHIP-CPU-01. Pocky & Rocky will flicker right when you turn it on and even sometimes freeze up when I get about 5 minutes or so into it. On SGaG, Arthur is very glitchy when he moves and the game all around is just a mess to play with the glitchy-ass graphics.

When I play these 2 games on any of the other variants I own, there are no problems whatsoever. Both games are play smoothly and no freezing up. Is anyone else having these problems on their SNS-1CHIP-CPU-01 when they play these 2 games? If you don't know and don't mind, check them out on your SNS-1CHIP-CPU-01 (if you're sure you have this variant) and see if they are just as glitchy. Reading through different threads here and on other gaming forums, the SNES variant one would prefer to own (other than the SNES 2/Jr) is the SNS-1CHIP-CPU-01. I have thoroughly cleaned the games' contacts and all of my systems' pin connectors. And it also should be noted than I'm using the cartridges and not a Powerpak/Everdrive.

I'd like to rectify this problem because I love my SNS-1CHIP-CPU-01. It's minty as hell and has barely been used. I guess if it came down to it, I could switch out the MOBO for a GPM-CPU-01 or GPM-CPU-02. But like I said, I'd rather not and fix this one if it's fixable.

edit: All other games, as far as I've seen, play just fine on my SNS-1CHIP-CPU-01. I have around 150 games and have played a little to quite a bit of each one, but these 2 happen to be a couple of my favorites.

Any help would be appreciative.

[ViperVisor]

I got a modded to have component output original SNES off ebay.

http://i.imgur.com/6zjV0l.jpg (http://imgur.com/6zjV0)

This is vivid option on the trinitron.

Even on standard it looks blueish. Its like they picked colors that just didn't wanna play nice. Banding all over and the vertical bar but faint.

[Lum]

Ah man. That's disappointing... Component is supposed to have glorious purity, very little edge bleed or glow effect. The emulator reference pic I found might help.

http://datacrystal.romhacking.net/wikid/images/7/7e/Final_Fantasy_VI.png

[MaxWar]

Very interesting topic!
Right now i have 3 versions of the original ( big ) snes. The other day I was playing DK country on my new tv and noticed the vertical bar for the first time. And suddenly, I could not unsee it. On DK country the bar is quite apparent in the darker mine levels.

I tried my two other Snes and one of them i could not see the bar! ( using composite )

I started looking the issue up and read this whole thread. I then got a S-video cable.
With the s-video cable i can see the bar even on the 'good' snes but its much fainter than the other two. For now it is my new main snes console.
I know its an older model as it has the sound on a separate shielded board inside and its quite heavy.
I find it interesting that one of my console has a significantly fainter bar then the two others. I used the same power supply and same AV cable on all 3 consoles.

I will check the mobo revision of my 3 consoles and other stuff for the database.

I also ordered FFIII so ill test with this game once i have it.

[ViperVisor]

A few more cam shots. Better cause I didn't handheld shoot and had some ambient lighting to balance things out.

Super Castlevania IV I turned the TV to VIVID to show as much color as possible and a real test of small differences. On standard room would need to be black and then I'd have exposure problems.

http://thumbnails106.imagebam.com/21391/7e4920213904765.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/7e4920213904765) http://thumbnails106.imagebam.com/21391/035bb7213904825.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/035bb7213904825) http://thumbnails106.imagebam.com/21391/46d176213904859.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/46d176213904859)

[Bad_Ad84]

Turning on processing (vivid etc) is a bad idea. Its messing with the original brightness, colour, etc

[jinn]

SNES

SN: UN12785454

MoBo: SHVC-CPU-01
1990

U7: BA6595F 139 139

[robneal81]

I've had a SNS-CPU-RGB-01 SNES for awhile and it looked great via S-Video. Once I got an RGB setup, it was a completely different story. The output was just plain disappointing. I wanted to see exactly how different each SNES version was, so I got my hands on a few different versions: My original SNS-CPU-RGB-01, a SHVC-CPU-01 and one of the coveted 1CHIP versions. The difference was instantly noticeable...the 1CHIP was sooooo much better than the other two. It's hard to capture the difference via pictures, but I did my best. Also, I took all the shots in one night and the rig never moved. All aspect of the shots were identical: camera, settings, tripod, cables, game cartridge...EVERYTHING.

http://i.imgur.com/PhKDi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/AAjTh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lhYFR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2A78F.jpg

One more thing to mention is the infamous vertical line. The line was completely different with each model. Here's the differences:

SNS-CPU-RGB-01 - Bright, prominent, annoying.

SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01 - Dim, still noticeable if you point it out, not very annoying.

SHVC-CPU-01 - Almost non-existent. Definitely the dimmest of the three.

I'm very curious though...is there a big difference between the 1CHIP and the SNES Mini? Can anyone post pictures of the differences? If not, I plan on getting my hands on one soon to try the mod myself.

[MaxWar]

Just got a new SNES that apparently does not have the Vertical bar. Or at least its so faint i cannot see it.
I tested it with FF III via S-video and seriously... I can't see the bar on this one.
My 3 other Snes have it and its very apparent with FF III + S-video.
I do not know what model it is right now, I do not have my gamebits right now so i cant open it already.
I bought this one for cheap as untested unit. It was different from my other 3 SNES, The eject letters are molded instead of printed and the plastic part of the cartridge connector is Black.

Ill open it up soon to check the mobo version, ill post screenies as well.

[gcfernandez]

Just got a new SNES that apparently does not have the Vertical bar. Or at least its so faint i cannot see it.
I tested it with FF III via S-video and seriously... I can't see the bar on this one.
My 3 other Snes have it and its very apparent with FF III + S-video.
I do not know what model it is right now, I do not have my gamebits right now so i cant open it already.
I bought this one for cheap as untested unit. It was different from my other 3 SNES, The eject letters are molded instead of printed and the plastic part of the cartridge connector is Black.

Ill open it up soon to check the mobo version, ill post screenies as well.

Might be a 1CHIP-02. I have one and it's vertical bar is the faintest of all my SNES's and is only visible on FF3 when I max out my tv's brightness. Is the serial number UN318 or higher?

[robneal81]

I'm very curious though...is there a big difference between the 1CHIP and the SNES Mini? Can anyone post pictures of the differences? If not, I plan on getting my hands on one soon to try the mod myself.

I got a good deal on a SNES Mini, so I modded it and answered my own question. While there is a HUGE difference between SNES 1 models, I could not see a difference between the mini and the 1CHIP. See for yourselves and let me know what you think:

http://i.imgur.com/HyQ8s.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qU6Ue.jpg

[gcfernandez]

I got a good deal on a SNES Mini, so I modded it and answered my own question. While there is a HUGE difference between SNES 1 models, I could not see a difference between the mini and the 1CHIP. See for yourselves and let me know what you think:

http://i.imgur.com/HyQ8s.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qU6Ue.jpg

The picture quality between the two will be indentical since the mini uses the same "1-chip" ppu

[MaxWar]

Might be a 1CHIP-02. I have one and it's vertical bar is the faintest of all my SNES's and is only visible on FF3 when I max out my tv's brightness. Is the serial number UN318 or higher?

Yes! Its a UN321xxx... I ''Think'' I can see some artifacts of the bar in the FFIII intro screen if i look real hard but compared to my other machines the bar is nonexistent. It seems however that for some reason i felt that the sound was not as good. But i only tried it for a short while, it may just be my imagination and i was getting a bit tired, now the snes is in a box. Im actually building a small computer right now that will have the purpose of capturing audio and video from consoles. I will do a proper comparison later when i receive the last parts.

[gcfernandez]

Yes! Its a UN321xxx... I ''Think'' I can see some artifacts of the bar in the FFIII intro screen if i look real hard but compared to my other machines the bar is nonexistent. It seems however that for some reason i felt that the sound was not as good. But i only tried it for a short while, it may just be my imagination and i was getting a bit tired, now the snes is in a box. Im actually building a small computer right now that will have the purpose of capturing audio and video from consoles. I will do a proper comparison later when i receive the last parts.

Oh wow that's a pretty high serial, it might even be a 1chip-03...what's the rest of the serial?

According to this spreadsheet the 1chip-03 starts somewhere between UN320 and UN321: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AvE57-VbN9_HdEpkUUR0U1hzMHFWVWw3VXhORHFIanc&output=html

[MaxWar]

Oh wow that's a pretty high serial, it might even be a 1chip-03...what's the rest of the serial?

According to this spreadsheet the 1chip-03 starts somewhere between UN320 and UN321: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AvE57-VbN9_HdEpkUUR0U1hzMHFWVWw3VXhORHFIanc&output=html

UN321415774 ( Ill open it up tonight )

[gcfernandez]

UN321415774 ( Ill open it up tonight )

That's higher than the confirmed 1chip-03 serial of UN321167468.

[MaxWar]

That's higher than the confirmed 1chip-03 serial of UN321167468.

I opened it up, 1chip-03 confirmed.

[gcfernandez]

I opened it up, 1chip-03 confirmed.

nice, mind telling what the encoder is labeled? s-rgb or ba659xx?

[MaxWar]

I see a s-rgb in there.
Here's a few pictures i took from the board.

http://i.imgur.com/59NLs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I8F46.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JzKYH.jpg

[DarthCloud]

I've updated the speadsheet. Thanks for that info.

Btw if any European member care to share there serial number and PCB version that would be great.

We have quite a good idea how to found any particularly version of the SFC and US SNES PCB now, but PAL info is quite empty :(

[gcfernandez]

I see a s-rgb in there.
Here's a few pictures i took from the board.

http://i.imgur.com/59NLs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I8F46.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JzKYH.jpg

looks like your snes may have been a soda can holder at some point

[MaxWar]

looks like your snes may have been a soda can holder at some point

LoL, i just finished cleaning that mess. I think it was Cola XD. The reset mechanism was also completely gooed up and would not work. I cleaned all the parts with a toothbrush, its like new now :)

Edit: a good thing the liquid did not affect the electronics.

[robneal81]

I just modded my 2nd SNES Mini and noticed the video chip was just slightly different then the first one I modded. Has anyone seen this before?

4859

[wingzrow]

Things like the SMP Timer Glitch vanishing, different behaviors of the TEST register, some DSP subtleties, the PPU being entirely different, and mid-scanline effects are totally different which affects games like A.S.P. Air Strike Patrol where the plane's shadow is almost invisible."


So what other behavior is different on the SNES Mini?

What games produce glitches on the mini, and what are they?

After checking 8 snes model 1s, none of them are the 1chip revision, so I'm planning to mod my snes mini for RGB and want to know what games are affected.

I would hate to be playing through late releases like terranigma, kirby's dream land 3, super mario RPG, etc, and have some huge visual differences compared to the model 1 that weren't intended by the developers.

[wingzrow]

So should I just look up all this on my own? Is it well documented?

[Lum]

Main SNES mini difference is video signal purity. Which can't be accurately described with words.

[Jeppex83]

There is something strange behaviour on my RGB-modded snes mini.. Everything looks fantastic and the picture quality compared to my Super Famicom is huge... But the problem is sync issue. I soldered a very small wire to the 7th pin of the chip and the second head to the sync spot of the cable pins (I added 75 Ohm resistor for each R,G and B wire, but this sync cable I put only wire, No resistor). Everything works great, when I start the console my Sony Wega CRT finds the SNES mini and starts the right channel.

But now it gets weird. When I play everything is OK but randomly my screen flickers once and the screen gets black and then my Sony Wega puts screen 16:9 and the colors get back. This is very annoying. I have to press start and put 3:4 setup again. There is no time limit when this happen. Sometimes I can play 1 hour and nothing, sometimes it happen when I have played 7min, or 18min... Maybe cold joint problem, or is this some issue with my Sony Wega... I don't know, but I soldered the sync wire out, and the issue is away. It is no big deal. It is not a big thing to put the right channel manually when I start playing. The most important is that I am very happy with very sharp non blurry image what Snes Mini can give!

[MaxWar]

If you are still curious about the problem and wiggling the cable does not reproduce the glitch I would try with another TV. I don't know much about RGB, being in NA, but I would try with another TV for a while. Seems the Sony TVs are a bit anal about things being perfectly to specs.

[Jeppex83]

I tried to wiggle the upper pcb connection and nothing happened. I was just curious that is this how common issue. And Is it TVs or consoles problem. I don't bother me anymore. I took the wire out. :) I played megaman 7 over hour now and no problems...

[TPSNT]

I've updated the speadsheet. Thanks for that info.

Btw if any European member care to share there serial number and PCB version that would be great.

We have quite a good idea how to found any particularly version of the SFC and US SNES PCB now, but PAL info is quite empty :(

In case you still need info for PAL consoles. I have two consoles:

UP18145527 - SNSP-CPU-1CHIP-02
UP18191853 - SNSP-CPU-1CHIP-02

[Seraphic]

Which PCB should I be looking for "best" overall picture quality using RGB (http://i.imgur.com/qjCn3.png)?

[robneal81]

Which PCB should I be looking for "best" overall picture quality using RGB (http://i.imgur.com/qjCn3.png)?


Read through this whole page. It should explain everything and has picture comparisons to show you the differences:

http://www.retrorgb.com/snes

[staylor]

very cool write up. Thats all you need to know case closed on best revision.

[Greg2600]

So it seems the 1CHIP versions are the ones that came just before the SNES mini. Ironically it's a later model, whereas the N64 famously can only output RGB, with modification, from early models.

[Lum]

Which PCB should I be looking for "best" overall picture quality using RGB (http://i.imgur.com/qjCn3.png)?

SNES mini. Which needs a mod for RGB.

Be aware the model is also NTSC exclusive, needing mods to use 50hz or directly run PAL original carts.

[staylor]

Read through this whole page. It should explain everything and has picture comparisons to show you the differences:

http://www.retrorgb.com/snesSo after reading through that write up he says you have to tear the console apart to tell the diffrence. Couldnt you just get a model from 1995 and know that its a later revision without tearing it apart?

[Lum]

Not loose. SNES units have no model year printed on the exterior.

Closest to a guarantee would be something like a new 1995 or later bundle, such as Killer Instinct (US) or Donkey Kong Country 2 (PAL).
If used yet seemingly complete someone could've swapped the console inside.

[Rick74]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AvE57-VbN9_HdEpkUUR0U1hzMHFWVWw3VXhORHFIanc&output=html

I used this to find a NTSC SNES that had a serial number higher than UN31xxxxxxx, and was able to get a 1-chip...

[Greg2600]

Not loose. SNES units have no model year printed on the exterior.

Closest to a guarantee would be something like a new 1995 or later bundle, such as Killer Instinct (US) or Donkey Kong Country 2 (PAL).
If used yet seemingly complete someone could've swapped the console inside.
They changed the SNES interior casing and hardware I believe around 1994, taking out much of the heavy metal shielding. The base also went from 4 rubber footers to just 2 at the front. The eject button changed from printed on in white to embossed on the grey plastic. Now, if it were proven that 1CHIP boards were used beginning with those changes, the identification would be simple! Unfortunately, and I could be wrong, but it seems like Nintendo changed the internals and then made this 1CHIP revision a year or so afterwards.

[evan107008]

I've seen some serials starting with UN8, anyone knows what these are? They often have another sticker under the serial number so I assume they're official refurbs but I don't know what board is inside.

If no one knows I may get one and find out. Is it normal for them to replace the entire board, or will it just be whatever the original board was, with repairs?

[Bad_Ad84]

They changed the SNES interior casing and hardware I believe around 1994, taking out much of the heavy metal shielding. The base also went from 4 rubber footers to just 2 at the front. The eject button changed from printed on in white to embossed on the grey plastic. Now, if it were proven that 1CHIP boards were used beginning with those changes, the identification would be simple! Unfortunately, and I could be wrong, but it seems like Nintendo changed the internals and then made this 1CHIP revision a year or so afterwards.

The eject being embossed is how you tell a 1chip instantly from what I remember reading.

[evan107008]

Printed eject label and heavy yellowing means pre-1CHIP but not the other way around; many UN2xxxx series have an embossed eject label and an unfaded case. Also the Killer Instinct bundle (1995-1997???) has a shitty RGB-02 board apparently, not a 1chip.

[Bad_Ad84]

See, we dont get the same consoles you guys get - so its not based on personal experience, just what I have read (somewhere). But its possible who ever wrote it didnt have a large enough sample size.

[ShadowZero]

I've updated the speadsheet. Thanks for that info.

Btw if any European member care to share there serial number and PCB version that would be great.

We have quite a good idea how to found any particularly version of the SFC and US SNES PCB now, but PAL info is quite empty :(
Some PAL SNES' (Holland):

UP10454635
SNSP-001A (FRG)
SNSP-CPU-01
S-CPU A, 5A22-02, 1LD 9U
S-PPU1, 5C77-01, 2AU 93
S-PPU2 B, 5C78-03, 2DA 7F
1992 Nintendo, SNSP-HOL


UP10969399
SNSP-001A (FRG)
SNSP-CPU-01
S-CPU A, 5A22-02, 2FB 73
S-PPU1, 5C77-01, 2FV 6A
S-PPU2 B, 5C78-03, 2FF 82
1992 Nintendo, SNSP-HOL


UP15473660
SNSP-001A (FRG)
SNSP-CPU-02
S-CPU B, 5A22-02, 3GA 82
S-PPU1, 5C77-01, 3FF J4
S-PPU2 C, 5C78-03, 3GU 8N
1992 Nintendo, SNSP-HOL