Is it time for new consoles?

[Oblivion]

So recently there have been quite a bit of rumors going around, since the announcement of WiiU at this years E3 that Microsoft and Sony are beginning they're research and development cycle for new console models, personally I'm not the one to jump into conclusions but I'm quite intrigued by this 'rumor', I think that many people including myself are still very happy with the ones that are out right now and truthfully you can still do a lot more with them (graphically).

But truth be told at the speed technology is growing and with the bigger demand for 'photo realistic' games, game developers are forced to come out and upgrade their game engines so the audience wouldn't get weary of their games, it is only matter of time wouldn't you say? It's not like Microsoft or Sony gave us the option to upgrade our consoles' graphics cards to support new technology for new games like you can with a PC. So the points of this thread being, what do you think? What is your opinion on this? Is it time to upgrade or is it still too early?

[mazonemayu]

it was too early for current gen, when it came out (128bit gen consoles hadn't reached their limits yet)
so its way too early now as well; its all just a big cash in & I'm not playing that game anymore

[karsten]

i really see no reason to upgrada yet. no machine has been completely used, and too few "special" games released.

[gelberhase]

well, about graphics:
I updated from my 15" TV to a self built beamer (100") last year, but I still am only playing on 1024*768, I still use my old Xbox quite often and seriously, for me games arent about graphics, sure thats a nice thing, but games are meant to be about story IMHO, so I dont care about photorealism too much.

about console gens:
well, I usually update like 3-4 years after the new gen came out, 1st the prices are cheaper, 2nd I just dont need everything only cause its new and got better graphics, as already said above, they should use what they got for a longer time, learn to use them till you cant get more out of them :P

[Yakumo]

Same here. My 360 still has the wow factor and with the machine still having more to offer I say it's not time to upgrade. Sure, some PC ports of PS3 and 360 games may look better but unless you have both standing right next to each other and you really look, you won't notice any difference. Anyway, we are now starting to see action games on current gen consoles running at 60fps. The latest Driver game does and looks very nice. just a shame it's got a stupid gimmick.

Yakumo

[Consumed]

There's plenty of life left in both the PlayStation 3 and the Xbox 360. If developers and designers deviated from their undying obsession with FPS games, uber realistic 'driving' games or 3rd person adventure games then maybe certain consumer quarters ''wouldn't get weary of their games''.

If I see one more ad for a game that tells me it has 'unprecedented attention to detail and realism' I swear to God I'll fucking scream :( Give me something that I can't experience in the real world, that's my whole reason for playing the fuckers in the first place, to drag me away from the mundanity that surrounds and consumes me each and every bastard day, not to be pissing reminded of it.

[Oblivion]

There's plenty of life left in both the PlayStation 3 and the Xbox 360. If developers and designers deviated from their undying obsession with FPS games, uber realistic 'driving' games or 3rd person adventure games then maybe certain consumer quarters ''wouldn't get weary of their games''.

If I see one more ad for a game that tells me it has 'unprecedented attention to detail and realism' I swear to God I'll fucking scream :( Give me something that I can't experience in the real world, that's my whole reason for playing the fuckers in the first place, to drag me away from the mundanity that surrounds and consumes me each and every bastard day, not to be pissing reminded of it.

I completely agree with you on this matter. Realism took away all the fun from games such as GTA IV, this game wasn't anything that special like the other titles in Rockstar's library of games. I do hope the next GTA title will go back to it's game-play mechanic roots and escape the 'realism' stigma that surrounds GTA IV. I don't want a game to be a true gang-banger simulator, I want to drive tanks around Vice City, blasting everyone the things I wouldn't do in the real world. Oh well one can only hope, but with new audiences being generated everyday by games such as Call of Duty (although this game has nothing to do with being realistic I think it's more of an arcade type game, for a quick doze of rage from eight year olds) it's hard for developers to go back to their old fundamentals most of them are forced to develop games for 'here and now' audiences in very short periods of time that want more gore more realism more simulation type game-play. Although I'm very much looking forward to Battlefield 3.

[Fabrizo]

it was too early for current gen, when it came out (128bit gen consoles hadn't reached their limits yet)
so its way too early now as well; its all just a big cash in & I'm not playing that game anymore

Well it was definitely too early for the original XBox, but their sales were so bad and the system was bleeding money for them with every unit sold. PS2 on the other hand had a full life and didn't really 'die' until the very end of 2008 with its final big hit Persona4. Dreamcast was killed because Sega was way beyond bankrupt, and Gamecube tech got an extended life as a part of the Wii.

As for this gen, I think your overestimating it. When the handhelds (Vita) have basically caught up to the consoles you know its time to move on.

[Hedgeyourbets]

I don't think it's time for new console just yet, partly because I can't afford to buy one... but yeah I'm happy with my with my 360 and Wii (and my Dreamcast :P)

From what I've been told, developers have already received some manner of PS4 prototype. Dual quad core CPUs apparently.

[Consumed]

When the handhelds (Vita) have basically caught up to the consoles you know its time to move on.

Why? Where is it written that a handheld must technologically be at least a generation behind a home console? Can't the two markets co-exist on an equal footing or do we now feel the need to sneer and deride anything that isn't this weeks super cutting edge flavour of the month?

The only people to benefit from new hardware would be lazy programmers and multi-national retail conglomerates. It would hurt the majority of developers and designers, games publishers and the company actually releasing the new hardware but most importantly it would hurt customer confidence. Why should a PS3 owner have to upgrade after just 4 or 5 years when the original PSX was in commission for 8 years and the PS2 for 10?

Start trying to create a market that isn't needed and prepare to be taken down a peg or two.

[graciano1337]

They killed the original Xbox too soon. It'd be a shame if they did it again.

I mostly don't want to see the next gen of consoles simply because I don't really care for the direction gaming is going.

[GungriffonEX]

After watching the very impressive Battlefield 3 PC 64-player Caspian Border trailer, a console only friend asked why couldn't the 360 version be 64 players(console is 24).

I had to reply that the Xbox is now 6 years old, while the PC can be as cutting edge as your wallet allows.


I wouldn't mind a 2013 release for the new 360.

[A. Snow]

I have yet to play a game this gen where I thought that it was limited by the power of the system.

[Fabrizo]

Why should a PS3 owner have to upgrade after just 4 or 5 years when the original PSX was in commission for 8 years and the PS2 for 10?

release dates:
PS1 (December 1994)
PS2 (March 2000)
PS3 (Nov 2006)
PS4 (??? 2012/2013)

I think the numbers speak for themselves.

[Elijah]

PS1 didn't die until 2006, and the PS2 is still going... just because a new console was released before then doesn't mean that they immediately pulled the plug on it.

[MottZilla]

They killed the original Xbox too soon. It'd be a shame if they did it again.

I mostly don't want to see the next gen of consoles simply because I don't really care for the direction gaming is going.

Xbox was paying a fortune on the NVidia graphics chip cause of a bad contract. They had to kill it and replace it in a hurry.

I don't think the 360 is badly in need of any replacement. While it would be nice for a HW upgrade, I can't say that now is the time. Certainly you could do more with more memory, better graphics chip and better cpu. As well as using Blu-ray storage. But for it to be worth it you are going to be asking people to fork out probably $400. And you'll be asking developers to increase the cost of games to meet the higher graphical standard.

Also, about these 'rumors'. MS and Sony have been researching their next gen consoles for a long time. They always do.

[spot778]

No we don't need new consoles

We need to stop this generation of PC titles being rammed down our throats on a console and paying an extra $20+ for the privilege.

That being said DX11 is sounding pretty amazing.

[HCK]

No we don't need new consoles

We need to stop this generation of PC titles being rammed down our throats on a console and paying an extra $20+ for the privilege.

That being said DX11 is sounding pretty amazing.

I hear when the Dreamcast 2 comes out this Christmas it will have a proprietary system that won't allow it to play anything that was first developed for the PC. And it'll launch with Shinmue 3.

[GaijinPunch]

They need to upgrade the fucking games.

[la-li-lu-le-lo]

I'd say yes, it's time. In fact, I think it's overdue. The technology for better graphics is already out there, and it's been over 6 years from when the current generation really began. I think they can, should, and probably will.

[HCK]

In all seriousness, what would we gain from new consoles at this point? We've reached the point where upgrades are going to graphically negligible. That used to be the benchmark for systems... last gen looked blocky and this gen looks more better. But can we really even DO that now? Do we need to do that now? I don't think we do.

Companies have to be careful, especially with the world economy, not to push people away. As we all know, hardcore gamers do not pay the bills.

I think this generation has many years left in it. And I'm speaking for Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is living in their own world.

[Fabrizo]

We've reached the point where upgrades are going to graphically negligible.

We're at least two console generations away from 1:1 parity with fmv in real time graphics. The biggest leaps you'll see come with next generation are improved lighting models (fully dynamic GI I hope, but doubt we'll see), higher resolution textures (FMV assets can use up to 32,000x res textures, games rarely go over 2048x atp), and smoother meshes thanks partly to dx11 tessellation.

Water right now is pretty bad, it only deals with the surfaces as opposed to dynamic water volumes. Animation is still taking a back seat to basically everything else at most studios, with one or two exceptions like Naughty Dog. quality AI still requires a supercomputer with the software that exists today. etc.

[Cyantist]

I have to say, since selling everything video game related (apart from Steam stuff) I really wont be buying a new console. Gonna stick to the original Xbox I have and PC based stuff (less crap all over the place) and be happy with it.

[HCK]

Actually I'm so happy with retro stuff and the wealth of games available that I don't really keep up with new stuff all that much.

[Barc0de]

graphics have a vast potential to improve from today's crap. The day you can run something like the Indigo renderer in real time+gameplay/sound/OS etc is the day graphic's won't get any better than that.

Until then, it's nice to see more power:)

I'm curious about the WiiU, I think it will have a dreamcast feeling to it being so much earlier that almost blurs the rough line between this generation and the next.

[Consumed]

We're at least two console generations away from 1:1 parity with fmv in real time graphics. The biggest leaps you'll see come with next generation are improved lighting models (fully dynamic GI I hope, but doubt we'll see), higher resolution textures (FMV assets can use up to 32,000x res textures, games rarely go over 2048x atp), and smoother meshes thanks partly to dx11 tessellation.

Water right now is pretty bad, it only deals with the surfaces as opposed to dynamic water volumes. Animation is still taking a back seat to basically everything else at most studios, with one or two exceptions like Naughty Dog. quality AI still requires a supercomputer with the software that exists today. etc.

Pretty lighting and water effects don't a good game make, nor will they ever. That's why the industry's in the sorry fucking state it is today.

[APE]

After watching the very impressive Battlefield 3 PC 64-player Caspian Border trailer, a console only friend asked why couldn't the 360 version be 64 players(console is 24).

I had to reply that the Xbox is now 6 years old, while the PC can be as cutting edge as your wallet allows.


I wouldn't mind a 2013 release for the new 360.

Close, but wrong.

The server side of things has to be able to handle all 64 players locations, movements, bullets, damage, etc. That takes an enormous amount of processing power and ram. I used to admin a Battlefield 2 server and in order to do 64 players we had to have something like a dual 3.4ghz Pentium 4 box with at least 4gb of ram. On top of that the server software had a well known and REALLY bad memory leak that would cause the server to crash after less than a day (typically) unless we reset it. Normally that would be done in the middle of the night as the server usually crashed at that point anyway.

No idea how the 360 side of things works but it is a lot cheaper in terms of server power to do 24 players. On top of that I'm betting EA still requires people pay for "ranked" servers for Battlefield 3. The 64 player servers will probably be top dollar where as the 360 servers? Comes with Live....

[mitsuruga]

xenoblade chronicles is a wonderful example of how a very very good game can exist without being the technical benchmark. In my opinion it`s time for new ideas rather than new hardware and catherine is a step in the right direction.

[Fabrizo]

Pretty lighting and water effects don't a good game make, nor will they ever.

No single technical element makes for a good game, but they do provide new opportunities to developers. What those developers do with said opportunities though is up to them.


xenoblade chronicles is a wonderful example of how a very very good game can exist without being the technical benchmark. In my opinion it`s time for new ideas rather than new hardware and catherine is a step in the right direction.

If you want new ideas just check out what indie devs are doing. Improving technology never stopped new ideas from coming to light. If your looking for massive multi-national corporations to be the bringers of new and unique concepts as opposed to evolutionary changes to existing ones, yourdoingitwrong.jpg

[mitsuruga]

No single technical element makes for a good game, but they do provide new opportunities to developers. What those developers do with said opportunities though is up to them.



If you want new ideas just check out what indie devs are doing. Improving technology never stopped new ideas from coming to light. If your looking for massive multi-national corporations to be the bringers of new and unique concepts as opposed to evolutionary changes to existing ones, yourdoingitwrong.jpg

oh yeah, I forgot about the glorious "underground" :rolleyes:

[Fabrizo]

You must really be out of touch with the games industry these days if you still think indie equates to "underground". Indies make up the majority of iOS and android titles, they're featured prominently on steam, and have notable presence on XBLA outside the existing indie games section.

[Consumed]

You must really be out of touch with the games industry these days if you still think indie equates to "underground". Indies make up the majority of iOS and android titles, they're featured prominently on steam, and have notable presence on XBLA outside the existing indie games section.

That's all well and good, but the majority of iOS and android titles have the depth and longevity of a fart.

For current gen designers the foreseeable future should be about maximising what's at their fingertips now, not throwing their hands up in despair saying ''woe is me, how can I be expected to work with such arcane hardware'' just because there may have been some technological advances in other parts of the gaming scene like the PC.

If hobbyist coders can far outstretch hardware expectations with titles like Pier Solar for the Mega Drive, the various 'Chinese Originals' that still keep on appearing for the Famicom, dozens of Atari VCS 2600 games and up and coming Dreamcast titles like Gunlord and Sturmwind, then surely today's supposedly talented teams are a good few years off wringing the neck of this generations hardware, no?

[Cyantist]

You must really be out of touch with the games industry these days if you still think indie equates to "underground". Indies make up the majority of iOS and android titles, they're featured prominently on steam, and have notable presence on XBLA outside the existing indie games section.

I thought Indie meant independant, generally that means low budget and small games produced by a single person normally.

[SuperGrafx]

I think 10 years between consoles is about right.
Microsoft refreshed its Xbox brand about halfway in (with the new dashboard, branding, packaging, console design and Kinect) which was the right thing to do. This allows them to maintain interest in the still-good platform architecture without allowing the image to get stale.

Seeing Forza 4 in action reaffirms that there is still plenty of life and horsepower left in the 360 for years to come. That assumes that developers do things properly. Otherwise we are seeing areas (like in F1 2010) where frame rate can't keep up and along with questionable AI that could benefit from some more robust hardware.

It's a trade off, but I think Microsoft would be wise to keep the 360 alive until at least 2015.

[Fabrizo]

For current gen designers the foreseeable future should be about maximising what's at their fingertips now, not throwing their hands up in despair saying ''woe is me, how can I be expected to work with such arcane hardware'' just because there may have been some technological advances in other parts of the gaming scene like the PC.

True the current console tech atp is still fine, it can't handle everything that PCs can but its close enough despite its age. However within the next few years that will change and at some point developers will have to start rebuilding games from scratch to fit the limitations of consoles, similar to the PS3/360 to Wii. This is both expensive and impractical, why would people go for the 'lesser' version of a game? The 'solution' is to make nothing but original games then for the consoles, unfortunatly that also has the problem by that point that your working to appeas a more limited audiance on an already declining format.

Can more be done with this gens tech then already has been? Absolutely. But the difference between what it can do and what it is doing already isn't enough to really matter at the end of the day.


I thought Indie meant independant, generally that means low budget and small games produced by a single person normally.

More or less. Technically indie just means self published with no subsidiaries or independent branches. Although it popularly refers to small teams.

[GodofHardcore]

Unless games look like spirits within/Advent Children with NO popup it's not time for a new console anything new is just going to have a gimmick and not much of a graphical upgrade.

The next gen should have at least 4 gigs of ram, a beast of a graphics card and be sub $300

we aren't there yet.

[graciano1337]

Unless games look like spirits within/Advent Children with NO popup it's not time for a new console anything new is just going to have a gimmick and not much of a graphical upgrade.

The next gen should have at least 4 gigs of ram, a beast of a graphics card and be sub $300

we aren't there yet.

I want to be able to play Pixar movies next gen. ;-)

[GodofHardcore]

Yeah pretty much If my games don't look like Pixar movies I don't want a new console

[graciano1337]

Yeah pretty much If my games don't look like Pixar movies I don't want a new console

I'll take 'em on the level of Toy Story but I'd prefer more along the lines of A Bug's Life or even Monsters Inc. It'd be a little greedy of me to say Wall*E...

[The Goonies III]

Longer console cycles are a good thing, I think. Prices have gone down dramatically on consoles that are still in full swing as far as development goes. I'm all about the value!

[Cyantist]

More or less. Technically indie just means self published with no subsidiaries or independent branches. Although it popularly refers to small teams.

That's what I thought. Which I why I don't understand why a band/fans can call the band Indie when they're signed to a record contract.

[APE]

That's what I thought. Which I why I don't understand why a band/fans can call the band Indie when they're signed to a record contract.

So they can fool themselves.

[GodofHardcore]

I'll take 'em on the level of Toy Story but I'd prefer more along the lines of A Bug's Life or even Monsters Inc. It'd be a little greedy of me to say Wall*E...

I'd be happy if my cel shaded games looked like Totoro

[H360]

They wont release a new system yet. The Wii has died, so that is why Nintendo is making a new one. To keep there fans / side of the market alive...

I mean, who likes the Wii? lol

[Bramsworth]

It's too soon. Look at the 3DS :x If more companies jump ahead with new systems like Nintendo did there everything's gonna end up like the video game crash of 80's all over again, it feels like anyway.

[H360]

It's too soon. Look at the 3DS :x If more companies jump ahead with new systems like Nintendo did there everything's gonna end up like the video game crash of 80's all over again, it feels like anyway.

I hope there is a video game crash, and that SEGA rises up once again!

[Cyantist]

I hope there is a video game crash, and that SEGA rises up once again!

Hi, Zack.

[H360]

Hi, Zack.

lolwat?

[Importaku]

I hope there is a video game crash, and that SEGA rises up once again!

To do what?? LOLOLOL

SEGA is dead, any talent they once had has moved far away leaving the modern SEGA as a mere shell of itself. Most the games they publish nowdays are not exactly gaming gold, they have a habit of dragging past ip's out the grave & then somehow managing to fuck them right up. Samba & Nights come to mind.

[H360]

To do what?? LOLOLOL

SEGA is dead, any talent they once had has moved far away leaving the modern SEGA as a mere shell of itself. Most the games they publish nowdays are not exactly gaming gold, they have a habit of dragging past ip's out the grave & then somehow managing to fuck them right up. Samba & Nights come to mind.

Well said.

But they CAN come back, if they do it right.

I mean, lets say, SEGA hires 10 members from the ASSEMbler forums to make a new console. I think they would have a chance then, as everyone here knows what a SEGA console needs.

I certainly know :rolleyes:

I have plans, drawings, sketches, 3D models and notes on what there console should do and look like.

I would love to present it to them, but the CEO will just give me a free copy of Crazy Taxi for the 360 and push me out the door.

[kendrick]

SEGA is dead, any talent they once had has moved far away leaving the modern SEGA as a mere shell of itself. Most the games they publish nowdays are not exactly gaming gold, they have a habit of dragging past ip's out the grave & then somehow managing to fuck them right up. Samba & Nights come to mind.

I respectfully disagree, and cite Yakuza and Phantasy Star as counter-examples. Sega's inhabiting a comfortable spot as a niche third-party developer, and they make money publishing titles from other hot developers. They also have a knack for earning big from tie-in properties (movies and the Olympics come to mind) that fund their projects that sit outside of the mainstream. No, it's not the cutting edge Sega of fifteen years ago, but in this age of DLC and yearly sports game updates nobody could play that role.

With that said, I don't think any theoretical gaming crash would be an open opportunity for Sega to rise again in any sense. As long as they're in the black, there's really no need for them to reclaim that old position. Also, Sammy is notoriously risk-averse, and there's no incentive to get back into the hardware business as long as the console technology continues to converge (to the point that everybody will have a motion sensor, streaming video and two pissed-off competitors eyeing their patent lawyers.)

[Cyantist]

I mean, lets say, SEGA hires 10 members from the ASSEMbler forums to make a new console. I think they would have a chance then, as everyone here knows what a SEGA console needs.


That would be a HORRIBLE idea. It's often thrown around at a wrestling forum I had. It almost always ends in the same thing. One persons favourite being ontop constantly and the rest of the roster sucking.

Any ideas you probably have are terrible for business. The shit games make sonic look bad but sell alot.

[social_drone]

i dont want a new console, i want better games. i dont care if they are pc ports or first person shooters or whatever the fuck. i just want better content. im tired of the self censorship, lack of polish, just mundane bullshit. im playing red dead redemption right now and while, i think at least, the scenery looks amazing the whole fucking game is boring and uninspired as shit. the story is shit, the dialog is shit, the game is just shit. playing for new outfits, or achievements, or some assorted worthless goal...its crap. storylines that go nowhere and die. theres no sense of exploration. your game sucks but you can download a fucking fedora for two dollars? developers cant be assed to provide any depth and im tired of it. the potential is always there for great video games, its just something or someone always manages to fuck it up...and it doesnt look like thats changing anytime soon. the only reason i have kept my xbox is because my friends like to get drunk and play carcassonne. sorry, im done.

[H360]

Yea, games these days are all the same. Buggy engines with a shit story line.

Should I mention Gears of War 1? That thing, was like a massive beta test scam!

Gears 2 wasn't any better either...

[GodofHardcore]

You mean every FPS is the same?

[H360]

You mean every FPS is the same?

Yeah... Just different in there own way.

Who want to play Kinectimals with me! :lol:

[Lum]

BAD FRAMERATES must go first. Before we even begin to talk tackling the whole DLC and brown/gray shooter tack-in gameplay.

[H360]

BAD FRAMERATES must go first. Before we even begin to talk tackling the whole DLC and brown/gray shooter tack-in gameplay.

Thats all to do with the hardware mainly. Well programmed games can detect the FPS and remove say, 3D objects that are not needed (ammo on the floor etc) to increase it though.