Propellor Arena Link-Up?

[zilpha]

Apologies in advance for this question as I realise the answer is probably NO!..................Is it possible to link-up two DCs so you can play 2 player Propellor Arena on two seperate TVs? :smt067 I'm pretty sure this can't be done but just thought Id check :smt045

[Yakumo]

Nope unless it's a hidden feature.

Yakumo

[zilpha]

Didn't think so :smt022 Just a thought, as it seems so near to compleation I thought maybe the networking feature maybe disabled but on there somewhere...........oh well guess it will have to be split screen :smt067 :smt067

[madhatter256]

Nope unless it's a hidden feature.

Yakumo

Didn't some ppl here help out in the release of the game? I betcha they might know if that feature exists or not.

[Divine Evolution]

Yeah, that was Belokk, haven't seen him around in ages, probably lurking...
~Krelian

[wombat]

Belokk, Megalexx and a bunch of testers made everything possible (and offcource all the peeps who ......) :prayer: I'm still thankfull for the release of this beatifull game...

and oooooooh if linkplay was possible that would be TO cool :smt022

[QATTY]

There is a version of Daytona on the DC which supports linkplay. It was released by drastic appar.

That also would hav been cool

[wombat]

There is a version of Daytona on the DC which supports linkplay. It was released by drastic appar.

That also would hav been cool
we'll I have been on the look out of that speficic release... and actually found it after 2 years... but its FAKE!!!!

[SuperFunkNinjaYoshiiKun]

There is a version of Daytona on the DC which supports linkplay. It was released by drastic appar.

That also would hav been cool

I thought the Jpn version of Daytona had link-play, but they removed the option from the title screen on the US version. You needed a Gameshark code to unlock it or something. Same with Virtual-ON: OT, afaik.

What games do actually have link-pay? We should start a list. I'm sure theres not that many. Now if there was somesort of tunneling software like XBConnect, so I could play Virtual-ON against someone, that'd be great.

[Perkunas]

Sega of America and Sega Japan once did a Propellar Arena match over the internet, including microphones and keyboard chat. If someone were to obtain that build/software, you could do it, in theory. But I highly doub anyone is capable of sneaking into the AM2 offices or R&D department and sneak out with the correct discs... So 4-player multiplayer is as far as you can go. :-)

[ShadowofBob]

Sega of America and Sega Japan once did a Propellar Arena match over the internet, including microphones and keyboard chat. If someone were to obtain that build/software, you could do it, in theory. But I highly doub anyone is capable of sneaking into the AM2 offices or R&D department and sneak out with the correct discs... So 4-player multiplayer is as far as you can go. :-)

The current build is quite capable of playing online, it's just the servers are no longer up. :smt009 It ran on the same server software that Outtrigger ran on. And they shut that down just a few months prior to Propeller Arena being released. :smt022

[Perkunas]

Sega of America and Sega Japan once did a Propellar Arena match over the internet, including microphones and keyboard chat. If someone were to obtain that build/software, you could do it, in theory. But I highly doub anyone is capable of sneaking into the AM2 offices or R&D department and sneak out with the correct discs... So 4-player multiplayer is as far as you can go. :-)

The current build is quite capable of playing online, it's just the servers are no longer up. :smt009 It ran on the same server software that Outtrigger ran on. And they shut that down just a few months prior to Propeller Arena being released. :smt022

Yeah, I was talking about Sega's server software.

Isn't it called SNAP? Sega Network Application Package? And wasn't it recently sold to Nokia?

[ShadowofBob]

Yeah, that's what happened, so getting ahold of it would be pretty difficult.

[einbebop44]

Reverse engineering the Sega Dreamcast game server system (middleware or something), known as Sega Snap, is impossible. PA will never be able to be played online, unless something amazing happens. And considering Sega Snap was sold to Nokia...no.

[Purge]

one of my initial projects on the DC was to reverse engineer P.A.'s network system, I havent done much but it looks doable from what I've seen. Why do you think it's impossible?

[Perkunas]

I highly doub someone at Sega or Nokia would leak SNAP to the outside, since quite a lot of money was paid and invested.

Unless someone from Sweden would like to take on an infiltration mission? ;)

[AntiPasta]

Sega of America and Sega Japan once did a Propellar Arena match over the internet, including microphones and keyboard chat. If someone were to obtain that build/software, you could do it, in theory. But I highly doub anyone is capable of sneaking into the AM2 offices or R&D department and sneak out with the correct discs... So 4-player multiplayer is as far as you can go. :-)

The current build is quite capable of playing online, it's just the servers are no longer up. :smt009 It ran on the same server software that Outtrigger ran on. And they shut that down just a few months prior to Propeller Arena being released. :smt022

Image the heart attack they would've had on the sudden influx of people connecting with PA :-D

[einbebop44]

one of my initial projects on the DC was to reverse engineer P.A.'s network system, I havent done much but it looks doable from what I've seen. Why do you think it's impossible?

It uses Sega Snap. It will be nearly impossible to reverse engineer Sega Snap. Tunneling software might be actually possible.

[SuperFunkNinjaYoshiiKun]

Xlink-Kai supports Xbox, GC and PS2. If they could include DC support that'd be amazing. But all link games use the actual link port, not the DC BBA (that was only for online games). So you'd need to make a DC linksocket - ethernet adaptor. But surely DC tunneling must be possible?

Just checked, the DC link cable is a serial cable. Just found this too; you can get a normal serial-ethernet cable (need to mod the cable) and the software converts the signal from serial to ethernet. Surely, it must then be possible to tunnel DC.

http://www.taltech.com/products/tcpcom.html

:prayer:

[Perkunas]

Xlink-Kai supports Xbox, GC and PS2. If they could include DC support that'd be amazing. But all link games use the actual link port, not the DC BBA (that was only for online games). So you'd need to make a DC linksocket - ethernet adaptor. But surely DC tunneling must be possible?

Just checked, the DC link cable is a serial cable. Just found this too; you can get a normal serial-ethernet cable (need to mod the cable) and the software converts the signal from serial to ethernet. Surely, it must then be possible to tunnel DC.

http://www.taltech.com/products/tcpcom.html

:prayer:

LAN adaptor good enough? I remember seing one once in a shop...

[Greatsaintlouis]

I guess I'm just not seeing the connection between the game using the Sega Snap and it being impossible to reverse-engineer. People were able to make open-source clients for MSN and AIM's closed IM protocols, I'm sure this could also be done if individuals had time and resources to put towards it.

[einbebop44]

Quite honestly, I don't understand the exact reasons why it would be impossible; if you really want to know, ask the folks over at onlineconsoles.com. (the Dreamcast section). It has been talked about over there many, many, times.

[Shakey_Jake33]

Isn't there a fan-made server for PSO currently running? Not quite sure how it was done, I must admit... but would anyone think it would be fesible to 'create' servers for other games, using a similar method?

[TheDeathcoaster]

Isn't there a fan-made server for PSO currently running? Not quite sure how it was done, I must admit... but would anyone think it would be fesible to 'create' servers for other games, using a similar method?

Yeah, there is. I don't know how they did it, buy I have the server tools on this box somewhere I think. Never got it working though.

[Greatsaintlouis]

Hell, people hacked Gravity's server format for Ragnarok Online for custom servers, and that's something that you were paying money to use. It's just a matter of the right people working on it...

As for this PSO server, do you hae any more info on it, Shakey_Jake? I'm really interested.

[Purge]

I work on one of said ragnarok projects, for info on the pso server see dcemulatiosn news page, it was mentioned on there. Also MMAN from the RO scene has been working on his own concoction for PSO as well.

[Shakey_Jake33]

As for this PSO server, do you hae any more info on it, Shakey_Jake? I'm really interested.
This is the official page for the server http://schtserv.funurl.com/

I played online on the server using the PC version and seems to work fine from what I saw. Never tried running my own server though...

Most interesting thing here is that apparently Dreamcast and PC players can play on the same servers.... though lacking a BBA and a usable dial-up ISP, I have been unable to try this for myself.

[MasterChief]

Isn't there a fan-made server for PSO currently running? Not quite sure how it was done, I must admit... but would anyone think it would be fesible to 'create' servers for other games, using a similar method?

pso is kinda different. there was a pc version on which it could be based. also someone had the foresight to log packets when it was online.

so, if someone would have logged packets when these games were online, it MIGHT have been posable for private servers. now that SNAP belongs to nokia, its pretty slim we'll be playing bmo or outtriger anytme soon. i still have hope that after n-gage is finally dead, sega might throw us a bone, but im an optimist.

let it be knowned, PAL pso is still officially online and is free to play.

woah, just noticed somthing:


Just checked, the DC link cable is a serial cable. Just found this too; you can get a normal serial-ethernet cable (need to mod the cable) and the softw are converts the signal from serial to ethernet. Surely, it must then be possible to tunnel DC.

http://www.taltech.com/products/tcpcom.html

:prayer:

woah, thats awesome. would a coders cable fit the bill? can anyone help me with some info on this, id love to try it.

[einbebop44]

PSO does not use Sega Snap. Ask the people on onlineconsoles.com. They will tell you that you should give up now, because it's impossible. Unless someone helps you out with certain info, it's not happenning.

[PrOfUnD Darkness]

A related project:

http://voot.sourceforge.net/

Someone made somekind of a "driver" to play the US version of Virtual-On online.


PD

[negora]

Supporting the words of Einbebop 44, SEGA SNAP hasn't got any relation with Dreamcast. It was designed some time after the Dreamcast production stop, for Play Station 2 and Game Cube. Later, it was bought by Nokia (in fact they bought the entire SEGA.Com, a subsidiary of SEGA of America)

If I'm not mistaken they used inverse engeenering to develop the independent "PSO" servers (using a sniffer and analyzing packs), so the original servers must be up to be able to do this. That's the reason because I doubt that we can see something like that for games like "Propeller Arena" or "Outtriger".

Salutes :) .

[Nitrosoxide]

So let me get this straight Propellor Arena was slated to use online play with mic support!! SoB..... the wasted potential. I even happen to own the microphone attachment!! :crying::-(:banghead:

Is there a source for this. Someone needs to add that to the wikipedia entry.

Also, what is the real problem with setting up a server for this game. Is it that the released version just doesn't have that function enabled or is it the problem of setting up the server.

Didn't Onlineconsoles get a private maximum pool server up and running recently? Why couldn't the same be done for propellor arena.

[Haruglory]

i remember browsing around files and it seems the online part was totally complete and perfectly functionnal, even server's DNS were installed. Main problem to set a server is that we don't know at all how it ever worked. On the contrary, most of unnoficial servers have been settled using the leaked official server program or by studiying how the server are actually working/worked by sniffing. None of these options are possible with PA so starting from zero seems a way too big work.

[Nitrosoxide]

How were those documents leaked?

[Elliott]

I've contributed to various projects aimed at emulating the functionality of official game-servers. Developing a Dreamcast server daemon would likely be significantly less complicated than one would imagine; as packet data was no doubt easier to retrieve (for obvious reasons).

The only trouble is, it's nearly impossible (or extremely difficult) to emulate functionality that we have no working technical knowledge of. PSO only survived because several people had the foresight to capture, exceptionally note and organize packet logs before the server went offline. It's very likely that the online functionality of many Dreamcast games could have been preserved in the same manner.


Cheers,
-Elliott

[hrahn]

In some cases - not so easily.
As someone pointed out earlier on these forums, a few games (Alien Front Online p.ex.) had their server IPs hard coded (went through QA unnoticed).
Therefore, after Sega let a contract with some operators run out, they suddenly found themselves in the situation of not being able to re-establish game servers for some titles.

[wombat]

Wel even if a game has a hard coded IP, it's relatively easy to reroute the IP to another IP-adres by using your PC.

[Elliott]

Wel even if a game has a hard coded IP, it's relatively easy to reroute the IP to another IP-adres by using your PC.

Agreed, especially if you possess a BBA / cross-over cable.

[APE]

Agreed, especially if you possess a BBA / cross-over cable.

Eh, that is more work than is necessary. You can easily reroute DNS lookups in the case of PSO without a crossover cable. As for hard coded IPs it'd be a lot easier to either hack the game to change the hardcoded IP if possible or use a cheat device to modify it in memory.