Phase 2, tape recovery.

[ASSEMbler]

Anyone have any old tape drives around they can donate?

We have a thread up on the tape types.

[retro]

I'd add verified working drives, if I were you.

Offers to purchase off eBay aren't really going to be that useful - you never know what state the drives are in. They could kill the tapes.

Just be careful - some of those tapes may not have an obvious drive, although the models I gave you should work.

[APE]

I've got an HP Colorado tape drive (don't recall what model off hand) that I have somewhere. If one is needed I will happily dig it out and check on its condition.

[ASSEMbler]

sounds like a start

[retro]

Really depends on the model. If you can let me know, I can tell you if it's any good.

[HSV5000]

I have 2 or 3 DDS3 DAT internal SCSI drives lying around somewhere. Send me a PM if you need them. Glad to help

[ASSEMbler]

Can you post the model numbers?

[APE]

I am 99% sure mine is a HP Colorado T1000e.

[retro]

T range is Travan / QIC - don't think there were any QIC tapes.

It's mostly DDS/DDS2 with some original AIT tapes.

[Quzar]

I've got a few spare tape drives, though I can't vouch for how well they work as I've not got the media to test on them. I'd be glad to contribute if any are needed:

2x HP SureStore DAT24 Model C1555D
An IBM branded QIC-2GB drive Model TDC4220
An External SyQuest Technologies 200MB C Model 200EXT (Part number S914127-001)
A Sony DDS drive Model SDT-5000
Various iomega solutions (Jaz 2GB Model V2000SI and a few Zip 250s)
2 Panasonic DVD-RAM drives (one is Model LF-D201)
Various LS120 drives

I know the last few aren't tape drives, but they're uncommon-ish backup solutions and figured I'd toss them in in case there was need.

[retro]

DAT24i - umm, let me think about that one
QIC - no good
Syquest 200Mb - no good
SDT-5000 - DDS2, yep
JAZ/ZIP/LS120/DVD-RAM - no good

Are you based in the US?

The other drives are, of course, good for something, just not much help in this case.

[Quzar]

Miami, Florida, USA. I figured most wouldn't be good for this (based on the pictures in the other thread but for all I know someone says 'I have some SNES material on Syquest tapes! =P).

I'd be totally willing to part with my SDT-5000. It's missing the faceplate, but was pulled from a working system. I haven't tested it simply because I haven't had any media.

[HSV5000]

I have a Internal Sony SDT-9000 pulled from one of my old servers.

for more info
http://sony.storagesupport.com/product/17

[retro]

I have a Internal Sony SDT-9000 pulled from one of my old servers.

for more info
http://sony.storagesupport.com/product/17

That's DDS-3. Might work, yes.

[ASSEMbler]

Ok I sent out some PM and we'll get the ball rolling.

[alecjahn]

HP surestore dat 40. DDS4, external, SCSI, internal power supply. It worked when I liquidated it from my old job (they upgraded, asked me to trash a bunch of stuff - I tripped and this landed in my trunk instead) however I haven't been able to test it here at home as I don't own the correct cable. I need to order one to make sure it isn't hungry.

[NCommander]

Just saw this thread and forum, so I apologize that I'm late here.

I don't personally have any of the tape units needed, but I live near a surpluss store which has at tons of old 90s-00s stuff, and can probably find drives and blank media to test said drives with. I'll be heading out there sometime this week to troll through their collection and make a few phone calls to see if I can track down some of these drives.

As seen in another thread, I'd recommend BackupExec as well, reads like 10 different formats, and I used it when I worked IT professionally. It might however be a very good idea once a known working drive is located that we do a binary dump of at least one tape (probably using a LInux or BSD liveCD, dd, and a bit of luck), and can look at tearing the data out that way.

When I did backups, I often didn't do compression on the backups due to speed issues (easier to just pop an additional tape in when we did full backups). If these backups are not compressed, it should be possible to simply dump the raw data out with a handmade tool if we can locate an index of the files on one of the tapes. This is of course if BackupExec fails to restore the data.

[Melchior]

I've got a DLT 4th generation drive in pretty good order (can't test without tapes).
Also a SCSI-3 Adapter (If needed), and all the wrong cables.

[Kao]

Simply out of curiosity (I'm certainly not trying to "stir the pot" if this is a touchy subject), what's the status on this project? Is the project still trying to obtain the correct drives for tape archival? I understand if it's simply an issue of free time; I'm really just curious to know where things have been left at.

[Dragythu]

Got an Ultrium-2 at work that I could use to restore data off tapes from. Equally got an old ultrium that takes DAT-sized tapes at work that i could poss donate. pm me if interested

[Prometheus]

Was anyone ever able to donate the needed tape drives? If not, couldn't we pool our money together and buy the needed drives online? I know there is no guarantee the drives would be in working condition, but it might be worth the risk if no one has the correct drive and is able to send it.

[retro]

You never, ever put valuable tapes into an unknown drive.

Getting the drives, as has been stated countless times before, isn't even half the battle. It's quite a convoluted process.

[Prometheus]

I've read through the threads; I understand there is more to this than simply getting the drives, but how are we supposed to move on to those steps when we don't even have the drives to work with? What's the point in knowing how to retrieve the data if you don't have the tools needed to retrieve it?

[Melchior]

You never, ever put valuable tapes into an unknown drive.

Getting the drives, as has been stated countless times before, isn't even half the battle. It's quite a convoluted process.

Indeed, the correct way is the cautious, slow way.

For each Drive obtained - it must be checked electrically, then mechanically and finally software must be procured for it.

Each drive would then be connected and run thru a test/validation sequence to insure the drive is in proper working order (cleaning tape, test tapes, test backup + read/write special test data patterns).

Once its thru those hurdles - it can be used to read out the tape data.

Assuming the tape cartridge itself is in good condition!

[Prometheus]

I'm sure ASSEMbler will take whatever precautions are necessary to ensure the drives will do no harm to the tapes.

As far as I know, he is currently trying to raise money to acquire the needed drives. I’ll gladly donate what I can, but I highly doubt it would be enough. If anyone else is interested in donating, maybe we could start a fundraiser to help ASSEMbler get started with this daunting task.

[Prometheus]

Aw C'mon, I can't be the only one that wants to see this project go somewhere. :shrug:

To anyone who has experience with tape drives, would the Exabyte EXB-8500 and the HP C1521B be good purchases or are there others that provide a better bang for the buck?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-C1521B-HP6400-2000DC-DDS1-DAT-External-Tape-Drive-/330504609852?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item4cf39c203c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Exabyte-EXB-8500S-5-10GB-8MM-SCSI-5-25-Tape-Drive-/370487116611?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item5642c0c343

The ones in these links claim to have been tested, so it might be worth looking into. Or there is a better place to get the drives?

[Master13]

I want to see the project take off but I have no experience with any tape drives.

[renone]

well, after a long time writing about this, I can say I have found a tape drive.

The Tape drive i have it's this one: http://www.serversupply.com/HP-COMPAQ/TAPE%20DRIVES/DDS-2/INTERNAL/C1539-00485.htm

(mine is white and has a different shape, but it is to give you an idea).

Maybe it's useful?

Let me know

[Prometheus]

It should work, or at least according to this link: http://knowledgebase.tolisgroup.com/?View=entry&EntryID=178

The Drive you have is a 4mm DDS-2 and the some of the tapes are 4mm DDS-1. Unless the link is incorrect, technically any DDS drive between 1 and 4 would work, since all that matters is reading from the tapes, not rewriting them. Using a drive like yours should also read any DDS-2 tapes, so it's probably better than the one I linked in my last post.

As for the AIT tapes, I've seen a used drive somewhat cheap, but there are also brand new -still in the box- drives for about 100 dollars. Dirt cheap considering it is brand new.

[renone]

It should work, or at least according to this link: http://knowledgebase.tolisgroup.com/?View=entry&EntryID=178

The Drive you have is a 4mm DDS-2 and the some of the tapes are 4mm DDS-1. Unless the link is incorrect, technically any DDS drive between 1 and 4 would work, since all that matters is reading from the tapes, not rewriting them. Using a drive like yours should also read any DDS-2 tapes, so it's probably better than the one I linked in my last post.

As for the AIT tapes, I've seen a used drive somewhat cheap, but there are also brand new -still in the box- drives for about 100 dollars. Dirt cheap considering it is brand new.

I was lucky that nobody threw it in the trash! :D ('cause was lying here in my room for a while).
Now we have to wait Assembler's Opinion and see if he really needs it :D

Unfortunately I cannot test it...

[ASSEMbler]

How would we do a function test?

[renone]

Unfortunately I have nor tapes or a Pc to test it (the PC which contained it has no power supply...)

[cypherpunk]

How would we do a function test?

Ok, I've read this thread, and a bunch of others, about these archives.

12 years ago (God, time flies) I was an intern, for a few months, at a data recovery company. Mostly dealt with hard drives, but had some experience with tapes too. Now a days I babysit servers and routers (The only tapes we still use are LTO-5), so I apologize, if the following is confusing (I don't know your familiarity with, say, Linux).


Indeed, the correct way is the cautious, slow way.

For each Drive obtained - it must be checked electrically, then mechanically and finally software must be procured for it.

Each drive would then be connected and run thru a test/validation sequence to insure the drive is in proper working order (cleaning tape, test tapes, test backup + read/write special test data patterns).

Once its thru those hurdles - it can be used to read out the tape data.

Assuming the tape cartridge itself is in good condition!

The above makes sense, *if* you want to *write* using the drive as well. But you do not care much about writing. You want to read.

So your biggest concern, is that the drive has a clean head, and that the drive doesn't chew tapes. Writing patters, etc, is nice, but not necessary. Who cares about the status of the write head of the drive, if you don't intend to use it (writing head, that is)?

I'd do the following:

Set up a dedicated system, consisting of some reasonably recentish motherboard, Adaptec AHA-2940U (or UW) SCSI controller (since your tape drive will be SCSI, and since 2940s have been around forever, and are well supported by pretty much any OS out there), one smallish (20 GB is more then enough) hard drive for the OS, one large (TB or so) hard drive for the recovered files, and install Linux onto the small drive (I'd go with Debian or Ubuntu, but it's a personal preference).

Procure a new cleaning tape for the drive (this can be expensive, and could cost up to 50$ or so, depending on the type of tape needed), and a not necessarily new, but disposable data tape.

Step 1: Clean the drive. Just follow the instructions on the package. Usually you put the tape in, then either drive recognizes it as cleaning tape, and does its magic on its own, or you need to attempt reading the cleaning tape using software. Depends on the type of drive and tape.

Step 2: Check that the drive can retention the disposable tape correctly (Basically rewind the tape one way, and then all the way back. Sadly, with tapes that have been sitting around for years, this is a good idea before reading), without chewing the tape.

Next, if the "disposable" tape you have is used, go to step 3b. If it is new, go to step 3a.

Step 3a. Here I assume that your "disposable" tape is new, and has no data. Next we want to verify that our setup works for reading. Unfortunately, in order to read, we need to have something to read. And while I earlier said that we don't need to *write* anything, this is the case where we are going to write some data on disposable tape. Doesn't have to be much, something trivial like tar xvf /dev/rst0 /etc command (that will just dump a copy of the /etc filesystem to tape) is enough. Then rewind the tape (mt rewind), and go to step 3b.

Step 3b. Here I assume that the disposable tape is used, and presumably has something on it. Then attempt reading the tape as a block device. This is the most primitive way of accessing the tape - computer basically reads all of the contents of the tape from beginning to end without trying to interpret the data, and writes it to file on the large hard drive.

Make sure that the test read is successful. Here "success" is defined by the drive actually physically winding the tape from beginning to end past the read head, without "chewing" it up. All good?

Step 4. Now, use standard UNIX utilities, such as file, strings, and hexedit (well, hexdump -C is standard, hexedit is trivial to install), to poke at the file you obtained. You want to make sure that there is something identifiable inside. At this point, if you see recognizable parts of files inside the file you obtained from tape (If you did the step 3a, and backed up /etc to tape, your file should contain lots of text, that is clearly readable, occasionally interrupted by file paths and headers, that tar put in. Tar is simple, which is why it's great for testing).

If you see files in your test, great! You can go ahead, and start working on the actual data tapes. Remember the write protect tab.

If you don't see anything identifiable, but the tape did not get chewed up, well, chances are that either the read, or the write head is busted in the drive. But as long as the drive doesn't chew tapes, you can still attempt to read one of the data tapes (betting that its the write head on your drive), and see if you can identify any of the data you got from it. If the tape is in good shape (ie, wasn't dropped, stepped onto, case not cracked), the write protect tab is clicked on the tape, and the drive doesn't chew tapes, you are not going to damage the tape by reading it through.

In a lab setting, the write head on a drive would, more likely then not, be physically disabled.

But here is to hoping that what you read from the data tape contains identifiable data. If working with a labeled spanning set of tapes, dump all members of the set.

Next step becomes to figure out what software did the backup. You can pray for easy to identify tar/cpio/ufsdump formatted data (Possible, if Acclaim had, say, a Solaris fileserver). Not compressed in any way (only drive compression), not encrypted, easy to work with. But chances are, that it's something more annoying. Legato Networker (should be right age), NetBackup, one of the Seagate "solutions" for Windows. Here is where you might need to re-install the OS on your recovery box to something else (Windows, most likely), and hunt around for the right software to read your tapes.

But unless you do the first pass, and read the tapes to files, and look at contents, you will never know that there is something on the tapes, and how to approach recovering files from the dumps.

Of course, if the above all sounds like it's way too stressful and complicated, there is another option. You can get a quote from a data recovery lab, a place that recovers data from hard drives, SD cards, etc. They will basically follow the same methodology (copy tapes raw to files on hard drive, then attempt to recombine them in software, guessing what backup software format it was (or reverse engineering the backup format, if necessary)), only they will have known good tape drives (and you will pay for that).

You can contact a few labs (smaller labs will, likely, outsource this to bigger labs, since tapes are not really common anymore, so it pays to ask if they will be doing this inhouse), and get quotes from them to recover, say, a particular set of backup tapes to user supplied hard drive, and then tell you what software was used to create the backup in the first place. Once you have the quote, you can do a fundraiser *shrug*

Doubt things changed much in the last 12 years, pricing wise. Figure, say, 5 tape set, at 100$ a tape = 500$ is a realistic quote for someone to dump the tapes, and then look at them, and see if what's there is obviously recognizable.

Any way, feel free to ask for more information, and good luck. And if you end up fundraising for a data recovery corp, I'll paypal 20$ your way.

[Melchior]

Also, I can obtain older tape drives for virtually nothing... (arbitrary outdated drives and sometimes tapes).

SCSI cards galore too.

Is this project moving forward?

[Prometheus]

I'm guessing once ASSEMbler is done with the Geist Force project, he will come back to this.

I'm assuming you know how to properly test tape drives, so if you can obtain the needed drives and make sure they work, then we'll be one step closer to getting the data off the tapes.