to KRIKzz everdrive64

[neomatrix]

hey
I hope in the furure you make
everdrive for nintendo 64?
everdrive pc engine (turbo duo?
everdrive for Neogeo AES ?

[8bitplus]

I cant see it working very well on N64. It would need a t-connector to attach original carts to read the protection chips that vary with the games, like with the Doctor V64 and the like.

AES.. I'd like one for that, but the flash size would have to huge for the 600+ mbit games.

[sanni]

It doesn't need a t-connector. You can solder one security chip inside and then have a boot emulator do the rest.
Marshall posted how this works somewhere here. It had something to do with a patched pif rom that gets loaded instead of the real one.

[8bitplus]

Ok that would be very cool. I guess things have moved on a bit since I was last playing with the cd/v 64 units.

[MottZilla]

NeoGeo would be pretty unrealistic. Also it would be hard to compete with the existing MultiCarts for NeoGeo MVS. I have a 150-in-1 that is only missing 59 titles. Of those I can't say there are a ton I would miss.

PC-Engine shouldn't be that tricky.

[JimmyCrackCorn]

I didn't want to start a new thread but does he have any plans for an NES cart? I can see that selling like hotcakes (especially if it had FDS support).

[DC_Lov]

Krikzz said that he probrably consider making Famicom Everdrive , many asian guys and I really looking forward to one since we never get and flashcart to use with Famicom except some rare Japanese exclusive that sell in deep under ground secret bases that no one know of...

[aleomark]

I agree about nes flashcart, in America the NES was very popular and nowdays a lots of people would like to play again in the NES some games that they missed when they were kids or teenagers and couldn't afford them back in those days.

[genetik]

Since there's already an up and working NES flash cart, I myself would much prefer an N64 one. Especially since my V64 died a long time ago:dammit:

[sanni]

There is a working N64 flashcart out there to, just visit neoflash.com

[Alchy]

I think the main complaint about the Neoflash N64 product is the high price. The N64 doesn't have that many truly great games, at least by most people's reckoning, and the price of that cart+extras far exceeds the price of the must-have games.

There's also very little in the way of ROM hacking going on for the N64. From what I've seen most hacks involve emulator-specific hacks, high-res texture packs etc which wouldn't be possible on original hardware. The main reason I bought a SNES PowerPak was to play ROM hacks on the console itself.

I'd probably buy an Everdrive64 if it was cheap, but I doubt I'd get much use out of it. With a few exceptions I own most of what I want out of that console.

[Greg2600]

NeoMyth's problem is the lack of storage space, and astronomical price. There is a guy in the U.S. working on an N64 multi-cart that, if it does what he says, will be the grand daddy of N64 carts. He hasn't confirmed it's final release, nor if he's definitely mass producing them though.

[MottZilla]

I agree about nes flashcart, in America the NES was very popular and nowdays a lots of people would like to play again in the NES some games that they missed when they were kids or teenagers and couldn't afford them back in those days.

It's called the PowerPAK. Google it. Want to use it on a Famicom? Get a good adapter, or better yet just buy a NES as they are cheap.

[aleomark]

witch one can have more sales? ( no witch one would you like) one for NES or one for N64?

edit: I know about powerpak but I'm not talking about if there are or no carts, I mean about everdrive carts

BTW http://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_recopilatorio-flash-carts-de-consolas-clasicas_1490286 that's my topic (in spanish) about all flashcarts

[goombakid]

Famicom or NES, I'd jump on either one at this point. I'm tempted to jump on the PowerPak, but I'm thinking that it's just too much for a flash card.

I'd also jump in on a PCE/TG Everdrive. I can think of several others that would love one, too.

[Lum]

Meh. NES and Famicom games look too different. Those adapters are unsightly, necessary as they may be. There's a Super Famicom style Super Everdrive sold, why not something for Famicom?

[DC_Lov]

It's called the PowerPAK. Google it. Want to use it on a Famicom? Get a good adapter, or better yet just buy a NES as they are cheap.

You don't know how much it takes to ship an NES across the continents or how hard it is to find a pin adapter that works with powerpak on famicom....plus Powerpak with pin adapter looks like a tower which is too tall/ugly on famicom.

[LeGIt]

hey
I hope in the furure you make
everdrive for nintendo 64?
everdrive pc engine (turbo duo?
everdrive for Neogeo AES ?

Not that it is a reason for KRIKzz not to but there is a board member already making one.

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=456827#post456827


Well things are going along and the end is in sight. Before I send off gerbers to get the final board design done, I need some feedback.

I started making this because I'm tired of half-assed N64 backup crap. They all suck in their own ways, this is my attempt to fix that.

Basic features:
- 64mbytes SDRAM (this will hold any image ever made)
- Full save emulation (EEPROM 4k, 16k, SRAM, FlashRam)
- Load images FAST (9 mbyte/second)
- NO software needed. Loads off plain FAT32 formatted card.
- USB for homebrewers


What you are seeing is my prototype board. The final board looks similar.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9961/64driveprotopub.jpg


As you can see it uses CompactFlash and not SD. No matter how much people bitch I am not going to use SD. Believe me, it's for a good reason.


This is a video I made a while ago, the only things changing are what's under the hood now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdWsFpVall0


Coder support:
Full documentation on how to use the cart. Use USB to debug your code and printf to console on the PC.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5247/75998588.png


Here are a few details for the techs:
CIC handling: You (or I) will solder in either a 6102 or 6105 (or PAL equivalents). The menu will handle every CIC with this one. You don't have to patch images, just use a clean dump. There is a jumper to solder to allow the 6105 bootloader to run.

Saves handling: Save files are autocreated by the menu. They're stored on CF and work just like an emulatro does. For some reason PJ64 and some others use little endian byte ordering on SRAM and flashram saves, after swapping they load fine on the real thing.

Bootloader: Finds the menu image on CF and complains if it doesn't exist.

Both Z64 and V64 images are supported. The byteswapping is performed in hardware by the FPGA so there's no speed penalty at all.



Bottom line: No cheaping out, no design flaws.


TODO: finish up FlashRAM support and get USB going (goofed FTDI footprint on my prototype)

[Teancum]

Thanks for that Legit. I'd see that before but couldn't remember where!

[veganx]

That 64drive is in my starting page since december. Hope it gets complete soon it's a great project.

Marshal has a youtube channel with demonstrations of his cartridge working and it's awesome.

[MottZilla]

You don't know how much it takes to ship an NES across the continents or how hard it is to find a pin adapter that works with powerpak on famicom....plus Powerpak with pin adapter looks like a tower which is too tall/ugly on famicom.

Oh I have an idea. Famicom would require a totally different PCB, and a custom case mold. The market for any Famicom cartridge is going to be less than that for a NES cartridge. I'm not saying it won't or shouldn't happen. But I'm pretty sure RetroUSB never offered a Famicom version because of the costs involved in producing another version and the likely low number of sales it would get. Basically what you can control yourself is either finding and modding an adapter or importing a NES. That or show Krizz or RetroUSB by organizing a sort of "group buy" that is very large of people that will buy a Famicom flash cart if one is developed and sold.

[StoneAgeGamer]

Oh I have an idea. Famicom would require a totally different PCB, and a custom case mold. The market for any Famicom cartridge is going to be less than that for a NES cartridge. I'm not saying it won't or shouldn't happen. But I'm pretty sure RetroUSB never offered a Famicom version because of the costs involved in producing another version and the likely low number of sales it would get. Basically what you can control yourself is either finding and modding an adapter or importing a NES. That or show Krizz or RetroUSB by organizing a sort of "group buy" that is very large of people that will buy a Famicom flash cart if one is developed and sold.

One advantage that Igor has is that he doesn't actually have to get custom shells molded (which is a huge expense on a low volume item like this) so I wouldn't be surprised if he got an NES EverDrive working that he would consider doing a Famicom one as well. It may actually be to his advantage just because there is no real competition for Famicom.

[Lum]

No kidding, there'd never be any shortage of shells that's for sure. Bootleg Famicom carts are *everywhere*.

[Greg2600]

Wouldn't the array of mappers making a Famicom EverDrive more difficult to design?

[MottZilla]

Wouldn't the array of mappers making a Famicom EverDrive more difficult to design?

Yes. You need an FPGA if you want to support alot of mappers and be able to update support later on. It's certainly more involved than Genesis or SNES. If you limit the intended mapper support that would simplify things a good bit. If you just worry about international mappers it wouldn't be quite so hard. Infact very few mappers will encompass the vast majority of commercial titles. Ex: NROM, CNROM, UxROM, AxROM, MMC1, and MMC3 would be all you really need to support to have probably 90% of the official library supported. The problems with mappers come when you consider very complex mappers used by a relatively small number of games like MMC5 and the pirate mapper 90. If you don't plan to support these then you can skip alot of trouble.

Famicom shells, particularly pirate ones, I've heard are of poor quality and some after opening will break and don't go back together right. I suppose it's true it's not a major concern since you don't need a case.

[DC_Lov]

Famicom shells, particularly pirate ones, I've heard are of poor quality and some after opening will break and don't go back together right. I suppose it's true it's not a major concern since you don't need a case.


I've open many FC cassettes and it seem that pirate shells never break. The surface quality is not as good but they were made from a more flexible plastic (differant component?). Only legit cassette shells break.

[Alchy]

Don't know where you've been getting your pirate carts but all of mine (old and new alike from all over the globe) have universally shitty build quality.

[DC_Lov]

Don't know where you've been getting your pirate carts but all of mine (old and new alike from all over the globe) have universally shitty build quality.


The point is not shell quality, I'm taking about pirate cart doesn't break when try to open it. The softer plastic (which could mean poorer quality) make it more flexible to forces ,you can bend it more than you can do with legit cart before breaking it.

While legit cart has toughter plastic (which could mean better quality) make it harder to bend open and more prone to be broken.

[KRIKzz]

yes, i agree that latches will break off if i tryin to open original famicom cart.
also i notice that not all famicom carts have same shells. there is could be few various types of mounting holes

[aleomark]

the good thing about nes is that all them are the same thing and you can easy open it if you have gamebit screwdriver, also new empty plastic shells are sold by retrousb

[KRIKzz]

guys, try to guess what is it (:
hint: first leter E, last leter also e. E.......e proto...

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9085/img1064ql.th.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/img1064ql.jpg/)

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/1605/img1065i.th.jpg (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/img1065i.jpg/)

[genetik]

guys, try to guess what is it (:
hint: first leter E, last leter also e. E.......e proto...

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9085/img1064ql.th.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/img1064ql.jpg/)

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/1605/img1065i.th.jpg (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/img1065i.jpg/)

Nice, guess I'll have to buy another everdrive :-)

[StoneAgeGamer]

The Flux Capacitor is almost complete!

[rocco]

guys, try to guess what is it (:
hint: first leter E, last leter also e. E.......e proto...

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9085/img1064ql.th.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/img1064ql.jpg/)

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/1605/img1065i.th.jpg (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/img1065i.jpg/)
Please SD-Ram instead of Flashram.

[Jackhammer]

The Flux Capacitor is almost complete!


:drool:

[sanni]

Looks great =D

[Greg2600]

Please SD-Ram instead of Flashram.
Yeah definitely needs to load faster than the other ED's.

Quite impressive though. Is Krikzz really one man?

[KRIKzz]

yes, i am really one, i just spend all my time on this toys (:
for n64 cart i use sdram instead of flash. also i use sd as before, but may be i will replace sd by CF if speed will be too slow. sd thepretically should give 28mbit/s or may be even more.

[APE]

yes, i am really one, i just spend all my time on this toys (:
for n64 cart i use sdram instead of flash. also i use sd as before, but may be i will replace sd by CF if speed will be too slow. sd thepretically should give 28mbit/s or may be even more.

What do you do to pay the bills? Ukranians have the reputation of being unscrupulous with their computer skills you know.. :-)

CF is what marshallh (http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/member.php?u=1832) is using as I'm sure you know. Aside from the serial over parallel nature of CF and SD I'm not entirely sure why he was so adamant that SD was inferior for his project unless he designed it to use CF from the ground up.

[KRIKzz]

i sell cart for pay the bills :p i really does not liked work in office.
moderd SD cards have good speed (10-15mbyte/s), but i still don't know how fast they can work via spi.
i prefer sd if it will be enough fast

[MottZilla]

Very interested in how this turns out. Will there be enough SDRAM for 512 megabit games?

[KRIKzz]

my test board have only 64mbit of sdram, but it is just test board. i not need more for prototype

[derekb]

a challenger appears

[dutch]

a challenger appears

Yep, and that's a good thing. This new N64 development is very much wanted and looks really promising.

Keep up the good work KRIKzz.

[haynor]

I vote for Everdrive PC Engine. tototek is nice but using EPP is very anoyning.

[8bitplus]

looks like we might be spoiled for choice for N64 flash cards soon.

[goombakid]

How much we looking at for the N64 Everdrive? And is there any way we can help to have a PCE/TG16 Everdrive in the future? I decided not to get any flashcarts for any retro console unless it's an Everdrive!:thumbsup:

[wmd]

When will we see PS1/Saturn/Dreamcast Everdrives?

Someone is already working on a superior N64 device so I don't see the point in covering old ground.

[dutch]

.... Someone is already working on a superior N64 device so I don't see the point in covering old ground.

What a nonsense. It's always good to have a choice. Or would you like to drive in the same car as everybody else? No, of course you don't!

[Bboydocument]

When will we see PS1/Saturn/Dreamcast Everdrives?

Apologies, but this is the strangest post i've ever read here :confused::confused::confused:. You do realise that the consoles you have mentioned all use CD media?

[Teancum]

WMD mentioned it in the other 64 flash cart drive that he would like to see optical disc emulators for some of these older systems. similar to the wode.

I imagine someone very dedicated creating a chip that plugs into the cdrom port of say your sega saturn that you will then be able to plug in either a usb hard drive or an sd card into. That will transfer the isos to the system in the way that the system expects. Would be cool but I imagine it would be a ton of work.

[sanni]

Are cdr's really that expensive nowadays?

[alphagamer]

Are cdr's really that expensive nowadays?

It is not a question of expenses for media, but ease of use and mobility. If you are making a portable out of a PSone with a flash drive it can be tiny. Also if you don't have to change discs, well, you get the idea.

[8bitplus]

I think someone got a hard drive working on the Dreamcast a long time ago. It connected through the modem IO port if I remember right. It was just a prototype, not meant to be a "product" and I'm sure it didn't load full games. Linux use only.

This might be it, but I think there was something else.....
http://www.dreamcastbr.com/category/especial-casemod/

One step at a time.
The current Everdrives are fantastic, and its great to see KRIKzz working one a newer project for N64, but CD/GD emulation "boxes" would be a much bigger step.

[Teancum]

Emulating a the whole cd system would definitely be a pain. It would be definitely be cool but who knows if it would even be cost effective. Who wants to pay $150 for a PSX optical disc emulator? That's what i thought :p

[wmd]

Emulating a the whole cd system would definitely be a pain. It would be definitely be cool but who knows if it would even be cost effective. Who wants to pay $150 for a PSX optical disc emulator? That's what i thought :p
Given that my PS1 collection is worth somewhere in the region of $1500+ I'd be more than willing to pay $500 for such a device. Mostly for convenience, partly because I hate optical discs.

[wmd]

What a nonsense. It's always good to have a choice. Or would you like to drive in the same car as everybody else? No, of course you don't!
If the 64drive is released first, then much of the market for such a device will be gone. If I was doing this for profit, I'd be working on something that nobody else is working on. Besides, there are a hell of a lot more PS1s out there than N64s.

[aleomark]

If the 64drive is released first, then much of the market for such a device will be gone. If I was doing this for profit, I'd be working on something that nobody else is working on. Besides, there are a hell of a lot more PS1s out there than N64s.

that's reasonable but every one do what they choice, by now I think Krikzz is only into flashcarts devices

[Alchy]

If the 64drive is released first, then much of the market for such a device will be gone.There have been many flash carts prior to the Everdrive on both Megadrive and SNES yet KRIKzz has managed to make a profit.

Regardless, many people are excited to see his N64 flash cart, if you aren't then perhaps this isn't the thread for you.

[KRIKzz]

If the 64drive is released first, then much of the market for such a device will be gone. If I was doing this for profit, I'd be working on something that nobody else is working on. Besides, there are a hell of a lot more PS1s out there than N64s.
oh really? neo myth md was released a year or more befor everdrive md, but it is not a problem, or super power pack... :-P
some CD controllers already created by the way. for example SD controller for dreamcast and IDE for 3DO systems.
but i personally not very like this idea because i just can use natural method - CD-R disk

[wmd]

neo myth md was released a year or more befor everdrive md, but it is not a problem, or super power pack...
The neomyth stuff isn't very good though is it? Certainly, their N64 solution is poorly realised.


some CD controllers already created by the way. for example SD controller for dreamcast and IDE for 3DO systems.
Fair enough, if that results in game loading from SD. That just leaves the PS1 and the Saturn.


but i personally not very like this idea because i just can use natural method - CD-R disk
Most people want these solutions for convenience I would imagine. Having all your games on one device is highly desirable. If there are others like me who are willing to pay a high price, then it's going to be profitable for someone.

[Greg2600]

I just don't see what someone like Krikzz would do in terms of emulation for a CD based system? Especially the Dreamcast, which was felled largely by the fact that it had no protection from burned-media. I see no point in a Dreamcast product. For many of the optical systems, it also requires modding of the consoles to get things like this to work. As the most advanced cart-based console, N64 is really the end of the line I think.

[derekb]

a drive emulator for dreamcast would be nice since it would enable you to use true 1:1 backups rather than having to chop the game down to fit on CD-R (shenmue 2, D2, etc etc)

[wmd]

Indeed. Plus the all-important convenience factor. Not being able to see the benefits of such devices is pretty short-sighted.

[MottZilla]

It would be pretty interesting to be able to replace the PS1 CD-ROM assembly with a device using mass storage of some kind. Eliminating the mechanical nature would as mentioned make it better for portables but just in general would make it much more reliable.

[haynor]

I prefer replace old cd unit in PS1 - cheaper :]
But in dreamcast gd-rom emulator would be nice.

[fasman]

Offtopic: a few years after the psone was release there was a a modchip came out that had a socket that covered the bios ic and tapped into 6 other pionts on the motherboard, it would then load a custom/homebrew exe where you could select cheats from , that would probably be the best place to try execute your own code to redirect "cd reads" instead of building a whole cd drive replacement.

A similar thing was released for the old scph-7500x or less consoles,and used the parellel port(later removed on newer consoles 900x or slimlines), called action replay+ or Game shark, both of these circomvented the cd drive as well and could play backups...

Its not going to be easy but probably its not impossible.

PS allmost forgot to mention, a lot was done back in the early ps1 days by the "scene" to reverse the parelel port some of the documents are still availble online

[MottZilla]

A similar thing was released for the old scph-7500x or less consoles,and used the parellel port(later removed on newer consoles 900x or slimlines), called action replay+ or Game shark, both of these circomvented the cd drive as well and could play backups...

No they didn't. They let the user stop the CD motor. This allowed them to do the Swap Trick without the hassle and dangers of doing it with the CD motor spinning the disc and while the disc was actually being read. This is all they do, stop the motor and facilitate loading the game after changing discs.

[bahramut]

the 64Drive



New board revision is up and running with all the features of the proto. Usb also enumerates, though I have to write code for that functionality now.

http://64drive.retroactive.be/rev1_clean1.jpg
http://64drive.retroactive.be/rev1_clean2.jpg

[erkan]

Krikz will become a millionaire if he makes a CD hardware emulator for the Saturn and DC! That is a dream for many Sega fans! :)

[arbingordon]

CF is what marshallh (http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/member.php?u=1832) is using as I'm sure you know. Aside from the serial over parallel nature of CF and SD I'm not entirely sure why he was so adamant that SD was inferior for his project unless he designed it to use CF from the ground up.
I think it is partly due to it being used from the start, when the idea was to stream the cartridge from CF, and CF had lower latency than SD. Until:


Found out CF is really no faster than SD at seeking. Best-case so far is around 300uS between address latching and card ready to go.

SD varies even more, I tested one card at 400uS and another at 3milliseconds (!)

...In addition to:


No pics for now, but the bootloader is done. It will run a sequence of tests on the CF card/microdrive to determine the fastest speed it can read reliably. Then it looks for the menu file in the root directory of the card and loads the file. It is designed to find out the biggest fragments (if the file is fragmented) and load things all in one go -- so far I've maxed out the 15MB/second transfer rate on my new 2GB cf card. That's about 8x faster than a typical SD card running in SPI mode. (Fullspeed SD transfers require 4-bit mode which is several thousand dollars to license)

Super Mario 64, in 0.4 seconds. Can't do that with SD cards, hehe

[C-Kronos]

Although KRIKzz's will be cheaper than marshall's, marshall's cart will be superior, I'm sorry, but from what I've seen of KRIKzz's work so far, it wont stand a chance against marshall's cart.

[Alchy]

from what I've seen of KRIKzz's work so farWhich of his carts do you own, and what issues have you had? Seems like most people have been pretty happy so far.

[dutch]

.... I'm sorry, but from what I've seen of KRIKzz's work so far, it wont stand a chance against marshall's cart.

???

You know as well as I do that both cards are still in development, so I wonder why you make that bold assumption! And do you think the Everdrive carts are inferior compared to other available flash cards? You must be an authority with cards. :lol:

[sanni]

It's not about which cart is the best it's about having a choice. People that are happy with their Everdrives will most likely also buy an Everdrive64.

I personally would most likely buy both =D

[Greg2600]

64drive is obviously much closer to completion (at least I hope it is), and Krikzz is still in the early stages. Marshall's project, like the perpetually stalled SNES sd2snes, has a really cool cart menu, and he seems to be unwilling to release until every possible feature is ready. Feature wise I think he may set the bar pretty high for Igor, but it's likely the 64drive may cost TWICE what Krikzz comes up with.

[veganx]

some CD controllers already created by the way. for example SD controller for dreamcast and IDE for 3DO systems.


ahm.. what ?!

Can somebody link me up to that IDE 3DO solution ?

EDIT: just founded it: http://3do-renovation.ru/IDE_for_3DO.htm

this is not what I had in mind, I was thinking about a IDE to HD, so you can have the entire library of 3D0 games in a single unit. Well, this will only keep your 3DO alive forever.

[wmd]

Yeah, it's the same situation with the Dreamcast. The current solution is entirely inappropriate for game loading.

[MattyHusted]

well im interested so il be keeping track of this

[wyndcrosser]

Dreamcast / Saturn CD emulation, I think you're completely confused. blank CD-R media is perfect, there is absolutely no reason for any emulation of DC or Saturn, as they are already done "basically".

Saturn = modchip (plays ALL games)
DC = selfboot

If the Everdrive64 is built, I will buy. I'm beyond happy with my everdrive-MD, I just wont buy from the Ukraine again, as it took like 2months to get stateside. lol.

Thanks KrikZZ

Wynd

[Teancum]

I would love to have a saturn disc emulator that plugs in between the cd drive and the mother board and be greeted by a menu asking me which games I would like to load off of my 80 GB hard drive. That would be the appeal of a cd emulator but of course solutions exist right now.

[Alchy]

I can't believe someone would understand the appeal of modchip but not understand the greater appeal of an optical drive emulator. It's pretty obvious that an iso file on an external HDD is more convenient than burning off a CDR each time.

[wmd]

blank CD-R media is perfect
Absolute nonsense. Several people have already listed the main reasons why there would be demand for such devices for Saturn/PS1/Dreamcast.

[Greg2600]

How do you emulate an optical drive on the PS1, Saturn, Dreamcast, etc.?

[MottZilla]

The hope or idea is that you could replace the optical assembly (by removing the data ribbon cable and power cables) and put in place some other sort of interface that would be able to serve an ISO off some kind of mass storage in the way the optical assembly serves data off a disc.

I'm sure it's possible but I don't have any idea how difficult or expensive such a device would be to produce. A device similar to this idea exists for the Nintendo Wii. One called WODE I think, another called SunDriver. SunDriver can replace the Nintendo Wii Optical Unit with a Hard Drive and a built in Menu or switches can be used to select the ISO to use as the inserted disc. Basically this is what people would like to see for PS1 or Saturn.

It would definitely be appealing to some people as without the optical discs the PS1 is pretty solid and would work for a long time. Plus you wouldn't have to deal with a bunch of discs, no worries about scratches or bad cd-r media.

[Greg2600]

I checked those Wii devices out, they seem easy to install. On the development front, I'd expect you're talking a lot more money to do. One of those had custom plastics, which of course costs several thousand bucks in most countries to have done. You're also talking about hard disk controlling, USB connecting, and getting power to the hard disk. From what we've seen, I think it's within Krikzz's ability to accomplish it.

I guess if he could do with without having to do any custom plastics, and could apply the solution to multiply systems (DC, Saturn, PSX, others), it could be worth it for him.

[YAGRS]

As someone who recently had his Saturn's laser die, I would definitely be interested in switching it out with a hard drive. It would be very cool if saves could be written to the hard drive as well instead of the internal memory or a cart like the Action Replay.

[StoneAgeGamer]

I actually heard that they have a PS1 clone in China that can play the PS1 games off an SD card. However I also heard the system has some major slowdown issues and load times are terrible. Hopefully its something they improve on.

[Alchy]

I actually heard that they have a PS1 clone in China that can play the PS1 games off an SD card. However I also heard the system has some major slowdown issues and load times are terrible. Hopefully its something they improve on.It'll be an emulator, not a clone, and you can guarantee that it'll never be anything close to the original hardware in terms of compatibility. You'd be much better off playing an emulator on a PC.

[wmd]

Does anyone know if that SunDriver supports all forms of audio-streaming? The WODE doesn't, which is its main flaw.

[StoneAgeGamer]

It'll be an emulator, not a clone, and you can guarantee that it'll never be anything close to the original hardware in terms of compatibility. You'd be much better off playing an emulator on a PC.

Yes clone was wrong word.

I call GenMobile a clone, but technically it uses emulation.

[wyndcrosser]

it's more of the idea, on why waste your time, when you could create other flash cards as in N64, GG, Gameboy, etc. Have you seen the WODE for WII, it was a huge failure.

Plus personally I make disc labels and cases for all my backups, so they actually look really good next to my legit copies.

Wynd

[wmd]

The WODE is a failure because better solutions existed (before it was released) for the problem it primarily tries to solve. To make matters worse, it fails (partially) at what many consider its most useful feature (running GameCube games via HDD/SD/USB). It's a flawed product. They didn't give the project the due care and attention it deserved.

Optical drive emulation for older systems is a completely different kettle of fish. Laser assemblies won't last forever, so an ODE for those systems is highly desirable, not least because of the substantial amount of convenience having all your games on a single USB device brings.

[StoneAgeGamer]

The WODE is a failure because better solutions existed (before it was released) for the problem it primarily tries to solve. To make matters worse, it fails (partially) at what many consider its most useful feature (running GameCube games via HDD/SD/USB). It's a flawed product. They didn't give the project the due care and attention it deserved.

Optical drive emulation for older systems is a completely different kettle of fish. Laser assemblies won't last forever, so an ODE for those systems is highly desirable, not least because of the substantial amount of convenience having all your games on a single USB device brings.

First let me say I completely agree with you. What your asking for would be awesome.

However, if it were easy it would have been done long ago. Although I am sure it is possible with enough R&D how practical would it be to sell?

Lets say Igor decides he wants to tackle this project. Lets say he finally completes it 4 years later working 20 hours a week on it. We can all agree here that time is money. Lets go on the low side and say his time is only worth $10/hr. That ends up being $41,600 in time alone to complete this project. This does not count all the other expenses. Lets low ball it and only add $3400 in other expenses to make it an even $45,000.

So to realistically cover all R&D he would have to make $45K. And thats completely low-balling what his time is really worth. Even low ball thats not chump change for such a limited market item.

There's also one other glaring problem with such a product. Since its not a plug and play solution like a flash cart is you are eliminating a huge majority of prospective customs that would like such an item, but can not install it themselves. Yes a few would just pay someone else to do it, but many won't bother.

At this point in time I don't think Igor is just making flash carts because they are neat and fun. He is making them to provide for a family. Something like this is would be a great project for some college engineering students to tackle while they are still living off their parents. Classic gaming is a niche market. This would be a niche item for a niche market.

Again like I said I hope someone does do something like this someday. I think it would be amazing to see and I would sure buy some. However there's more to making something than just whether its possible or not.

[Teancum]

Unfortunately Stoneagegamer is probably right. Unless Krikzz somehow found a way to make a huge breakthrough fast then it's probably not a job for him. But I can definitely see a group of college students pulling this off.

[KRIKzz]

i want say something about laser drive emulators. who know how laser drive works? i guess that only cords pinout available in best case, and no any info about data transfer protocol, laser drive control etc. so here is need deep reverse engineering work, but reverse engineering is not a thing where i have a good skill, also i not like to hack something or perform reverse engineer.
i have dreamcast, ps1 and panasonic 3do where laser drive is dead, and will be good to replace them by some flash based drive, but i need more info about systems hardware for make something

[wmd]

StoneAgeGamer - I think you're missing the point a little. I doubt that any of these people making these backup devices make as much as money as their skills are actually worth. I think most people do it because its their passion, and if they can make a little money out of it, then so be it. That's certainly the been the nature of many complex projects that I've undertaken over the years.

Also, I think you're over-stating the nature of the install for ODEs. The hardest part for the WODE installation was the opening of the actual console, not the installing part. It really was that easy. No soldering required.

[StoneAgeGamer]

StoneAgeGamer - I think you're missing the point a little. I doubt that any of these people making these backup devices make as much as money as their skills are actually worth. I think most people do it because its their passion, and if they can make a little money out of it, then so be it. That's certainly the been the nature of many complex projects that I've undertaken over the years.

I agree most people do this stuff because its fun and they have a passion for it. However people have to make a living as well. I am not saying it can't and won't be done. I wouldn't be surprised if someday it is. Maybe Igor will do it, I don't know.

I have been there. Not only do I own my store, but I am also a software engineer who develops software that control industrial machines. However in my younger days I did many software projects just for fun of it. However, nowadays that I have family, mortgage, car payments, etc. Fun projects are not a high priority unless there is some money in the end.

If I had the free time I would love to work on a project. I have always wanted to develop a 2600 game just for fun. Maybe someday.

That being said. I am not your enemy on this. Like I said I would love to see it. I was just giving my opinion on why I think its going to be hard to justify doing for many people. This also may explain why it hasn't really been done yet.

[MottZilla]

i want say something about laser drive emulators. who know how laser drive works? i guess that only cords pinout available in best case, and no any info about data transfer protocol, laser drive control etc. so here is need deep reverse engineering work, but reverse engineering is not a thing where i have a good skill, also i not like to hack something or perform reverse engineer.
i have dreamcast, ps1 and panasonic 3do where laser drive is dead, and will be good to replace them by some flash based drive, but i need more info about systems hardware for make something

Unfortunately I don't have any information on the PS1 Ribbon Cable pinout or how it works but someone might. If anyone has seen or sees such information they might post it here.

[wmd]

A similar thing was released for the old scph-7500x or less consoles,and used the parellel port(later removed on newer consoles 900x or slimlines), called action replay+ or Game shark, both of these circomvented the cd drive as well and could play backups...
No they didn't. They let the user stop the CD motor. This allowed them to do the Swap Trick without the hassle and dangers of doing it with the CD motor spinning the disc and while the disc was actually being read. This is all they do, stop the motor and facilitate loading the game after changing discs.
I remembered that I had one of these old cartridge devices for the PS1 so decided to dig it out of the loft, and it is indeed as fasman says - it has its own menu system running on its own ROM, so he was actually correct - it is posible to run programs from the rear parallel port.

[Greg2600]

Wouldn't the Parallel port be slow as heck?

[wmd]

Probably. I just wanted to put the facts straight on that particular issue.

[KRIKzz]

ps1 cd drive very slow, so parallel ports should not be more slow

[l_oliveira]

People need to FORGET about rigging something on place of the LASER PICKUP for drive emulation. It would require simulation of the pickups physics behavior including the generation of very high frequency analog signals for the photo diodes simulation.

The optical pickup is an ANALOG device and emulating it would be a LOT more complex than completely bypassing the drive hardware and hooking right by the optical drive interface on the system bus.

Devices like the WODE or SUNDRIVE do replace the whole Wii optical drive, by mimicking it's behavior and making the Wii believe it's talking to an Matsushita DVD drive as it would should it be running on it's original configuration.

The drive replacement approach is perfect for machines like the 3DO(early models), Dreamcast, Nintendo Game Cube or Nintendo Wii where the optical drive is completely assembled in a separated board which can be disconnected from the main board.
In the case of the 3DO, the drive protocol is the same as early/old Panasonic CD-ROM drives (Sound Blaster cards pre ATAPI) and on the others DC, GC and Wii the protocol is custom but bus signaling is obviously using the ATAPI hardware specs.

So IMHO hooking on the optical pickup connector is not feasible/affordable but hooking on the drive interface is. Perhaps in the case of the Saturn it's doable through the cartridge slot ?

[MottZilla]

No, he is not right. He said it circumvented the CD Drive. That's not true at all. It lets you perform a swap trick. That's all. The only way to circumvent the CD Drive is to apply a modchip to feed the bitstream of security codes. The way he said it made it sound like plugging a device in the port was equivilent to modding the system with a chip.

Edit: Oliveira, so it sounds like the PS1 would pretty much require replacing the drive controller chip or something like that then? Doesn't seem feasible at all since no one wants to desolder those chips.

[wmd]

It probably doesn't need saying, but a little pro-tip for l_oliveira: NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE 3DO. Nobody cares about it now, and nobody will ever care about it in the future.

[l_oliveira]

It probably doesn't need saying, but a little pro-tip for l_oliveira: NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE 3DO. Nobody cares about it now, and nobody will ever care about it in the future.

I feel a little bit of hate on your words towards the 3DO system. Anyway, I just used it as an example because most models do have the CD-ROM drive separated from the main board just like the other machines I mentioned on my example.

Playstation and Playstation2 on the other side have their optical drive logic embedded on the main board, making such modifications much, much harder. :shrug: That's the whole point of my post ...

And since I'm already typing, let me say a thing about the PS2:

The "hijacking" of the CD-ROM/DVD-ROM interface made by HD LOADER and similar software is only possible because the PS2 uses a sort of software device driver (CDVDMAN) to interface the user application (GAME) with the SONY hardware. On the PS1 that exists too, but the PS1 is a bit limited on memory space making an software based approach similar to HDLOADER almost impossible.

[Teancum]

Lol I love my 3DO. Although I have a Goldstar 3DO so it's very possible that anything that ends up being made wouldn't work for my 3DO

[Greg2600]

Well, I play my PS1 games on my PC normally with ePSXe, and all the video hardware acceleration. Looks way better.

[Alchy]

Well, I play my PS1 games on my PC normally with ePSXe, and all the video hardware acceleration. Looks way better.What does that have to do with optical drive emulation?

[Greg2600]

Pointing out that it's not an end all be all, there are alternatives.

[Alchy]

I think it's safe to assume everyone in this thread is aware of PC emulators. Certainly anyone who understands the appeal of a solid-state storage device to replace the PSX's optical drive will be well aware of ePSXe - obviously it's the cheapest and easiest solution, being that it's free and takes a matter of minutes to download and set up. The kind of hardware device we're talking about only appeals to people who prefer to use the original hardware.

[l_oliveira]

I think it's safe to assume everyone in this thread is aware of PC emulators. Certainly anyone who understands the appeal of a solid-state storage device to replace the PSX's optical drive will be well aware of ePSXe - obviously it's the cheapest and easiest solution, being that it's free and takes a matter of minutes to download and set up. The kind of hardware device we're talking about only appeals to people who prefer to use the original hardware.


Which is the point of things like EVERDRIVE. Hence we having the conversation about optical drive emulation here. Talkling about PC emulators is offtopic on this thread, IMHO. :shrug:

[wmd]

I feel a little bit of hate on your words towards the 3DO system.
Sorry, no hate intended, I just think it's a pipedream to want such a development for such a highly niche console.

[l_oliveira]

Sorry, no hate intended, I just think it's a pipedream to want such a development for such a highly niche console.

If I tell you that some russian hackers actually made an "translator" device which translates the Panasonic/Sanyo protocol into ATAPI (allows the use of standard PC CD-ROM drives ? :lol:

Niche enough, some hackers made an EXI to ATAPI adapter for the Nintendo Game Cube as well.

EXI is the name Nintendo gave to the SD-CARD like bus interface the Nintendo Game Cube and Wii have inside for peripheral interconnection, including the memory cards, network adapter and such. :shrug:

Another project, also on the Game Cube existed where the goal was to replace the DVD drive board with an ATA HDD.

[Bboydocument]

All I can say is, I can't wait for this flash cart. I'll be selling my z64 straight away!

[MottZilla]

All I can say is, I can't wait for this flash cart. I'll be selling my z64 straight away!

Realistically as soon as this cartridge comes out, your Z64 will instantly drop in value. Right now these old copiers are the only way to play N64 ROMs on the real hardware other than the very expensive NeoFlash cartridge that costs so much you might as well buy a copier. But once this cart and/or Marshall's are available and for considering less money the value of any old copier is definitely going to drop. Basically you may want to sell it sooner rather than later if you want to get the most amount of money for it.

[Bboydocument]

Realistically as soon as this cartridge comes out, your Z64 will instantly drop in value. Right now these old copiers are the only way to play N64 ROMs on the real hardware other than the very expensive NeoFlash cartridge that costs so much you might as well buy a copier. But once this cart and/or Marshall's are available and for considering less money the value of any old copier is definitely going to drop. Basically you may want to sell it sooner rather than later if you want to get the most amount of money for it.

You're right. I guess i'm not expecting much from selling it. The z64 (v2) was the perfect n64 copier because of the 10gb hdd mod, but yes it will be less desired once this flash cart comes out....

But then again, what's the market like for flash carts anyway?

Krikzz - Just my 2 cents, but I believe you would reap the benefits if you started marketing your products via other channels. There are just too many people out there who don't know about flash carts and their capabilities, and the value they would receive from your products. There are just the few hundred diehard/hardcore retro console fans like us on this forum who stumbled across krikzz.com one day and voila.

There are just a lot of people out there, especially on eBay, who are unaware that flash carts even exist. In Australia especially, friends and other people I know who play retro consoles but had no idea of what a flash cart is until I told them. They are still relying on their super wild cards and other ancient copiers

Example:

A few months ago, I witnessed a bidding war on a bunch of SWCDX2's (they were relisted one after the other). They sold in excess of $250 each. I emailed the seller and said "you know, I could buy a flash cart for approx $100, I believe your auction is overpriced. But i'll continue to watch it for entertainment". His response was: "there are no good flash carts out there. SWCDX2 is the best copier in the market". Well, he is obviously unaware of the everdrive products and retrozone's carts. Anyway, maybe the bidders were collectors and maybe they see SWCDX2 as the holy grail of copiers (I once did).

But anyway, maybe if I sold my hdd modded z64 on eBay, well after the release of "everdrive64", i'm sure there will be some people who have no idea of these forums and krikzz.com. And then I could break even :dance:

[derekb]

it might be in krikzz's best interest to not draw 'too' much attention, I believe he currently builds and tests each cart himself without any real help?


Realistically as soon as this cartridge comes out, your Z64 will instantly drop in value. Right now these old copiers are the only way to play N64 ROMs on the real hardware other than the very expensive NeoFlash cartridge that costs so much you might as well buy a copier. But once this cart and/or Marshall's are available and for considering less money the value of any old copier is definitely going to drop. Basically you may want to sell it sooner rather than later if you want to get the most amount of money for it.

yeah, this is why I sold off my v64jr, compared to everdrive64 and marshall's cart it is very clunky and soon to be obselete. Right now I'm really looking towards marshall's primarly because of the level of polish he has given his cart's UI so far in his previews

[StoneAgeGamer]

Krikzz - Just my 2 cents, but I believe you would reap the benefits if you started marketing your products via other channels. There are just too many people out there who don't know about flash carts and their capabilities, and the value they would receive from your products. There are just the few hundred diehard/hardcore retro console fans like us on this forum who stumbled across krikzz.com one day and voila.


We market the EverDrive pretty well on many forums, YouTube, and other mediums. You may see the EverDrive-MD reviewed by Classic Game Room sometime in the next few months. Gamester81 has also already done reviews as well as others. These are all carts provided by us.

We do not sell anything on eBay mainly due to their prices. Same with Amazon.

From talking to Igor a lot he does not seem too interested in this part of the EverDrive. He enjoys developing them more than marketing and packaging.

We are pretty proud of what we did for EverDrive-MD packaging and others to make them more "average consumer" friendly. Based on how many we sell it is working.
http://stoneagegamer.com/images/products/detail/SAG002015_front01.3.JPG

[StoneAgeGamer]

it might be in krikzz's best interest to not draw 'too' much attention, I believe he currently builds and tests each cart himself without any real help?

He has help building them.

[Bboydocument]

We market the EverDrive pretty well on many forums, YouTube, and other mediums. You may see the EverDrive-MD reviewed by Classic Game Room sometime in the next few months. Gamester81 has also already done reviews as well as others. These are all carts provided by us.

We do not sell anything on eBay mainly due to their prices. Same with Amazon.

From talking to Igor a lot he does not seem too interested in this part of the EverDrive. He enjoys developing them more than marketing and packaging.

We are pretty proud of what we did for EverDrive-MD packaging and others to make them more "average consumer" friendly. Based on how many we sell it is working.



Kudos to you SAG. You guys are doing a great job

[KRIKzz]

somebody know where i can see some infor about protocol which used by epprom and flash saves on n64?
any info about seve work mechanism can be useful

[Greg2600]

I recently was given this link the other day...

http://www.elitendo.com/n64/usa_boot_save_list.html

[KRIKzz]

it is just list of games (: i need info about eeprom and flashram communication protocol

[sanni]

Maybe here? http://daedalusx64.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/daedalusx64/trunk/Source/Core/

[Atari800XL]

it is just list of games (: i need info about eeprom and flashram communication protocol

If I were you, I would try to reach LaC. I could be wrong, but I am not sure why I always thought that LaC and Titanik is the same person!

[veganx]

I really don't know if this may sound good or bad, if I'm stepping in thin ice saying this but...

Marshal could help with that, I guess.

[Chilly Willy]

You want to look at libdragon, first. That's an SDK you can use to make N64 programs and includes support of a lot of that.

http://www.dragonminded.com/?loc=n64dev/N64DEV

For info on FRAM, you need to look at the alt libn64 used by the scummvm N64 port. It's part of the scummvm N64 code. With that and libdragon, you should have all the info needed. You might consider using libdragon as the support code for your N64 menu. That's what I use for the NeoMyth N64 menu.

[KRIKzz]

thanks a lot

[takeshi385]

lets hope taz express has full compatibility

[veganx]

Krikzz, just a curious question, now that you have experience creating flash drives for multiples consoles, how hard it is to create another one for the following console ?

I mean, it was harder for snes them less harder to genesis and so on ?

And, since you have experience, how long would you guess it will take for the 64 to be done ? And how hard is it compared to the previews cartridges you created ?

[KRIKzz]

n64 most hard, genesis was most easy. i don't know how many time need because i not always have time for development and n64 more complex project. probably only nes cart could be more complex for me

[wmd]

How about a GBA flash cart with no need for a battery (ie - emulate file system so all save types are saved to SD card, similar to the marshal N64 cart)? How difficult would that be?

[KRIKzz]

"how about cart for xxxx"
sorry, but i will be ignore all questions like this. i work only over one project and i dont know which system will be next, and i even don't know will i build some new carts or not.
so please not ask me about future and not need to offer me to build carts for some systems

[wmd]

Two points:

1. The question wasn't specifically aimed at you.

2. I asked how difficult it would be, not if you were going to build it.

[aleomark]

chill out, is only that the question about new projects is repeated once and again, over and over, that's why I opened the topic "suggested everdrives" in order to not repeat the same questions in every topic, cause I guess eventually gets annoying to answer same question

[KRIKzz]

wmd my md and snes carts not need battery by the way, just need to use some memory which not need battery. i like ramtron fram for that.
EDIT: about marshal cart. i not sure, but think that impossible to stream n64 sram saves on SD or CF, EEPROM or flashram saves may be possbible, but not sram. my own save system for n64 still not implemented, so i could be wrong

[veganx]

Krikzz thanks for your answer :))

Wish you all the best on your projects! Hope you get rich because you get us happy :)))

[sanni]

There are only 3 games(+ some debugroms) that use the full 64MB ram in your cart's ram anyway and even those have some KB's of 00 or FF at the end so you could map the sram save to the last 32KB of your cart's ram. Then after playing read the values and store it on sd.

I think I read about this somewhere in marshalls thread. I'm gonna buy both yours and marshalls cart. Keep up the good work. =D

[KRIKzz]

sanni i have exactly same idea about sram saves implementation, but user should be press reset after paly or something like this for copy saves from sdram to sd. also i will try to use fast serial F-RAM for emulate sram, but i not sure that speed will be enough fast.

[takeshi385]

i would say the hardest part of making everdrive 64 is the security chip, but if any one can do it , you can igor , i am hoping that it is taz express compatible .
lets hope.

[link83]

There are only 3 games(+ some debugroms) that use the full 64MB ram in your cart's ram anyway
I think you might be forgetting the European version of Paper Mario?

I have posted the below list in another thread, but thought it might be helpful here:-

List of N64 games larger than 256Mbit
320Mbit
Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber
Paper Mario (U) & (J)

512Mbit
Paper Mario (E)
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Pokemon Stadium 2
Resident Evil 2

512Mbit Unreleased
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest Debug Version
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask Debug Version

[KRIKzz]

but any of this games or not use sram save or has enough unused space in tail of rom for use this area for save mapping (:

[bahramut]

great

[marshallh]

great

lol, I don't know you posted this in krikzz's thread :P

[bahramut]

lol, I don't know you posted this in krikzz's thread :P

lool Reversing window