2011: Ads or fundraiser?

[ASSEMbler]

For this year I can either switch us over to ads, or try to raise the
$2200 we need for the forum for the year.

The ads would be game related, probably store or game ads.

What are your thoughts?

[Cooleo]

Could us users purchase ad space?

[Shiggsy]

Ads for visitors who are not logged in, and fundraiser for the rest =)

Shiggsy

[Tchoin]

Could us users purchase ad space?

This could be cool :nod:


Ads for visitors who are not logged in, and fundraiser for the rest =)

Shiggsy

Totally agree :thumbsup:

[ASSEMbler]

I don't know much about ad plugins for vbb, can you set it up so no ads show to subscribers?

[Yakumo]

fund raiser. I hate adds. Mst of them are for crap anyway. I hardly ever click them.

[LeGIt]

IMO go with both and if you make more one year put it towards next year's fund... but if they were going to be pop up or pop under forget it. I could live with a banner though.

[Tchoin]

I don't know much about ad plugins for vbb, can you set it up so no ads show to subscribers?

This one seems to do the job:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=131150




vBulletin conditionals and phrases. As well as standard template functions, conditionals and phrases can also be used within adcode block themselves, allowing you to customise the advertisement according to your forum users and settings.



Of course as Legit says, no pop-ups would be the best thing, just non-agressive banners, and the idea Cooleo proposed sounds interesting, providing users the ability to buy ad space, and all of this encapsulated in what Shiggsy said, ads for non-registered or non-logged in visitors, and no ads for logged in users.

What's also cool about this plugin is that it has AJAX implemented on it so banners can change without the need of the user loading a new page.

[Johnny]

I guess both. But the fundraiser would still be very important, and then the ads would add a little extra.

[angelwolf71885]

its 2200 for the year?

i say go with a fun raiser

and maybe at the top below the notices section have a please help keep assemblergames around even 1 dollar helps


although i like the user purchased ads idea

$20 buys you a 30 second spot in a rolling banner below notices

hell if you still have some of those katana branded gen zero dreamcasts
that are really japan region dreamcasts with a USA bios in them

i think you said there was something special about the gen 1/zero dreamcasts that make backups or something easy

hardware almost always brings in donations

your $5 dreamcast sale went really well a similar sale
wuth maybe a slightly higher price of different hardware or even dev kits
would do great for raising the funds

or maybe even cleaning out the odds and ends closet might do well

EDIT: if you could get kritz to make a regular supply of ASSEMblergames EVERdrive's
with 5% maybe more being donated to the site would be a huge donation boon

[Cooleo]

I think PPC (Pay Per Click) or PPI (Pay Per Impression) would be more effective than a rolling banner.

[CrAzY]

I agree with the idea of doing both, unfortunately I never donated during the fundraiser last year, but I will do my best to chip in if one takes place again.;-)

Also, if you make ads only visible for non-users, I have a feeling a lot more of the lurkers will finally sign up.

[Twimfy]

Could us users purchase ad space?

I thought you were trying to save/raise money!

The site seems to have survived so far using fund raisers (or has it?) why the change?

Besides, does anyone ever really make any money from web advertising anymore?

If it's an absolute must then I like the idea of ads for site guests only.

I really should give some money to the site sometime, it's like my second home.

[LeGIt]

Actually a mandatory $1 subscription per year would probably be best, though of course in conjunction with banner ads too. After the Paypal fascist movement has taken it's fees there should still be enough left over to pay the bills, assuming the other thousands of members didnt suddenly leave. To put it one way the content is more interesting yet cheaper than IGN so who knows...

[z_killemall]

Actually a mandatory $1 subscription per year would probably be best, though of course in conjunction with banner ads too. After the Paypal fascist movement has taken it's fees there should still be enough left over to pay the bills, assuming the other thousands of members didnt suddenly leave. To put it one way the content is more interesting yet cheaper than IGN so who knows...

I think a fundraiser would be a better solution than a fee.
It probably will raise more money and quicker, and even when we have more than 8000 members, I really doubt that more than 1000 are actually active.

The other problem is the forum would lose new members, few people would take the bother of paying (even something as low as $1) to register on a forum they still barely know. This forum has always been a friendly place for newcomers, and a subscription fee isn't the best way to keep it in that way.

[Trenton_net]

Wow, is it that time of year already? Hrm... I would agree with donations. Just let people donate and put a little "Site Donor 2011" logo or icon on peoples profile when 2012 rolls around for those who did.

It would probably bring in more money that way, and during the 2012 year when people are considering donating for costs, they'll see all the people who paid for the previous year. So if they find the site useful they'll want to be an active community memember and chip in. You could also start the trend and put up a logo/icon for the 2010 year right now for the duration of 2011 to promote the fundraser and remind people to give when you receive so much for free.

[graciano1337]

I'd say just stick with the fundraiser.

To reference Futurama:

Didn't you have ads in the 21st Century?

Well sure, but not on ASSEMbler. Only on TV and radio, and in magazines, and movies, and at ball games... and on buses and milk cartons and t-shirts, and bananas and written on the sky. But not on ASSEMbler, no siree.

[Tchoin]

You could also start the trend and put up a logo/icon for the 2010 year right now for the duration of 2011 to promote the fundraser and remind people to give when you receive so much for free.

Yes, it would be time for the 2010 fundraiser icon to kick in, I made one for that reason during last year, dunno if you guys liked it or not (don't remember actually) so here it is again:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5178/5390570966_32907f62f8_m.jpg

[graciano1337]

I like it! I don't remember if I donated last year or not.

[Cyantist]

Go with ads. The banners really aren't that bad and Im sure everybody will be able to put up with them. Just make sure they aren't pop ups/unders.

[Jamtex]

Yes, it would be time for the 2010 fundraiser icon to kick in, I made one for that reason during last year, dunno if you guys liked it or not (don't remember actually) so here it is again:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5178/5390570966_32907f62f8_m.jpg

Arrrgh no more Nintendo fundraiser icons....:dammit: Make a Sega related one :nod:

Back on topic.

Ads wouldn't be bad as long as they are at the top of bottom and are static, as flash and animated adverts are annoying...

Still a few dollars donated here and there does add up quite quickly, maybe allow people who do donate to turn off the adverts.

[Disjaukifa]

Arrrgh no more Nintendo fundraiser icons....:dammit: Make a Sega related one :nod:

Back on topic.

Ads wouldn't be bad as long as they are at the top of bottom and are static, as flash and animated adverts are annoying...

Still a few dollars donated here and there does add up quite quickly, maybe allow people who do donate to turn off the adverts.

I like the idea of a fundraiser, it shows who is the most loyal to the site, and I liked the badge idea, but how about if we have multiple badges for various systems, so if your a Playstation person, you get the playstation badge, Nintendo person, you get Nintendo, etc.

If its a fundraiser, I'll contribute!

Just curious, is this the cost for the software or the cost for hosting or both?

-Disjaukifa

[Trenton_net]

I like it! I don't remember if I donated last year or not.

It shouldn't matter. I'm sure ASSEMbler has a record of who donated and who didn't.

[kiff]

I also vote for fundraiser only; I don't think $2200 will be a problem going on previous years.

If we have to go down the ads route then the option for donators to turn them off would be a good idea :thumbsup:

I can also send a percentage of new year sales over as I did last year to help things along (20% again probably).

[crediar]

I don't think ads will work, everyone is using some kind of adblock these days ...
and this is such a great site it should be easy to collect that money! :D

fundraiser++;

[Cyantist]

I don't think ads will work, everyone is using some kind of adblock these days ...
and this is such a great site it should be easy to collect that money! :D

fundraiser++;

you get money just for views of your page and displaying them.

[Tchoin]

but how about if we have multiple badges for various systems, so if your a Playstation person, you get the playstation badge, Nintendo person, you get Nintendo, etc.



That could be quite difficult to do as just for the badge you have to create a custom user class and put one by one all the users who contributed.

I can try and do something with SEGA and see how it comes out.




Just curious, is this the cost for the software or the cost for hosting or both?

-Disjaukifa

It is for everything, VB license, hosting/server maintenance, domain, etc.

[K-Panggg]

Yes, it would be time for the 2010 fundraiser icon to kick in, I made one for that reason during last year, dunno if you guys liked it or not (don't remember actually) so here it is again:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5178/5390570966_32907f62f8_m.jpg


Challenger approaches

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7876/donorbadge.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/donorbadge.jpg/)

(the text can be changed and modified as you wish)

[Taom82]

I'm all for a fundraiser.
Information sharing and mind-tickling discussion is priceless.
Let a fellow weird tinkerer guy know when and where the donation box is

[liquitt]

I don't know much about ad plugins for vbb, can you set it up so no ads show to subscribers?

yeah i've seen that on other forums. they did that for donators...it looks for specific usergroups iirc.

[XxHennersXx]

i donated to the last fundraiser...I could do it again i guess.

[ASSEMbler]

i donated to the last fundraiser...I could do it again i guess.


Enthusiasm lol

[Taom82]

noticed that as well but wasn't going to say anything. How does one go about donating to the site?

[Disjaukifa]

Hey ASSEMbler, will you post a link to where to donate if you decided to go with a fundraiser?

-Disjaukifa

[ASSEMbler]

It's in my sig.

[zappenduster]

ill would prefer fundraiser

havent been active in 2010 so might be i missed the last years fundraiser but after i reactive my paypal account ill definifly put something in

[Hawanja]

I vote ads.

Yes they are annoying, but with the amount of traffic this site gets you'd never have money problems again.

[Alchy]

Put it to vote? I'd go fund raiser, personally.

[Tchoin]

Yup I think you should add a poll to the thread and see how it comes out.

[SuperPlay]

+1 for fund raiser :-)

[drek]

I like the fund raiser idea. I fired a few buck in already :)

[wheelaa]

Fundraiser! Keep the forum clean.

[mairsil]

Forums shouldn't have advertising.

[Dragonheart]

No ads, please. I'd rather donate $25 :thumbsup:

[Borman]

Ads for guests at the least, and having an option to block them when signed in. You'll never get money from most of the visitors, so you might as well have an ad or two to collect something.

[PS2Guy]

As a new member to this site, I have found out a lot of useful information already, which is much appreciated and I will definately be putting in my 2 cents worth (so to speak)! I would be all for a fundraiser and will definately contribute something towards the cause!

I also feel that with the wealth of valuable information stored in these pages, why should visitors to the site get that information for nothing??

I like the idea of contributing members being able to turn the adds off! I think that for active non-contributing members they could get a big flashing banner at the top stating "PLEASE DONATE NOW", everytime they log in, until it gets to the point where they get annoyed with it and donate! This will keep every member honest then!

PS2Guy!

[cde]

I vote Fundraiser. I dont think we had too many problems raising the money in previous years.. Did we? I much prefer the advert free place that is ASSEMblergames,

edit: oh yeah, can we have a SEGA site doner icon this year please.. lol.

[Tchoin]

Arrrgh no more Nintendo fundraiser icons....:dammit: Make a Sega related one :nod:





edit: oh yeah, can we have a SEGA site doner icon this year please.. lol.

So, just came up with these:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/5413566746_a2c1ddb0cf_z.jpg

What do you guys think?

[angelwolf71885]

do they have to be so large?

could you get it to just barly larger then the coin the tags dwarf the
user icon its annoying to me

[Disjaukifa]

So, just came up with these:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/5413566746_a2c1ddb0cf_z.jpg

What do you guys think?

I like Beta 03 personally . . .

-Disjaukifa

[Tchoin]

do they have to be so large?

could you get it to just barly larger then the coin the tags dwarf the
user icon its annoying to me

Those are the same size as the 2009 Site Donor badges, but of course they could be a bit smaller if needed.

[subbie]

Donations please. I'll promise to contribute this year.

[LeGIt]

IMO still go for ads + fundraiser + maybe $1 annual sub, even ads regardless of whether you donate or not as they are pay per view/click, regardless of how many people leave as the core community would probably stay.

Leftover cash for next year's bills + community dumps etc without having to ask for donations each time, just use the petty cash but haggle for a good deal :P

[mairsil]

IMO still go for ads + fundraiser + maybe $1 annual sub, even ads regardless of whether you donate or not as they are pay per view/click, regardless of how many people leave as the core community would probably stay.

I guarantee that I will never click a single ad (I never do for any site), regardless of the payment scheme, and would be less likely to contribute to other efforts with their presence.

[MoBoRoS]

I'll contribute too. Prefer fundraiser than ads.

[Juste]

I'd choose donations/fundraiser, no ads.

[MoBoRoS]

Btw! I'd prefer Tchoin's Beta 03 design of the fundraiser emblem. (also i would like it framed)
I have to point out though that we have 2011, not 2010. lol. XD

[Tchoin]

Btw! I'd prefer Tchoin's Beta 03 design of the fundraiser emblem. (also i would like it framed)
I have to point out though that we have 2011, not 2010. lol. XD

Hehe, great, I believe framed looks better.

It would be for 2010 as it always is displayed a year later, ie during 2010 we had 2009 fundraiser badges. In 2012 the badge for the 2011 fundraiser would kick in.

On other note, I still support the idea of ads for visitors (aka not logged-in users) that would dissappear once you log in. And a fundraiser as well.

[MoBoRoS]

Hehe, great, I believe framed looks better.

It would be for 2010 as it always is displayed a year later, ie during 2010 we had 2009 fundraiser badges. In 2012 the badge for the 2011 fundraiser would kick in.

On other note, I still support the idea of ads for visitors (aka not logged-in users) that would dissappear once you log in. And a fundraiser as well.
ahhhh. i see.... My bad! :)

[LeGIt]

I guarantee that I will never click a single ad (I never do for any site), regardless of the payment scheme, and would be less likely to contribute to other efforts with their presence.

Thre are 8000 members or so at present. If one doesn't click another will. Thy also do not have to be obtrusive, for example I browse full screen and there are 2 large grey areas of nothing outside the forum style sheet or whatever. Drop a couple of banners in there, the site is a little less bland and generating revenue whether you click it or not for everyone to continue to enjoy for years to come.

It doesnt have to be ads or fundraiser. It can and should be both IMO =/

[mairsil]

Thre are 8000 members or so at present. If one doesn't click another will. Thy also do not have to be obtrusive, for example I browse full screen and there are 2 large grey areas of nothing outside the forum style sheet or whatever. Drop a couple of banners in there, the site is a little less bland and generating revenue whether you click it or not for everyone to continue to enjoy for years to come.

No offense, but it is this exact attitude that has, in my opinion, ruined the internet. Advertising is meant to be obtrusive by its very nature. So what if there is a little bit of empty space on the left and right sides? We don't have to fill every single inch of screen space for a forum like this.

[LeGIt]

We don't have to, but would you rather the people put their money into buying more kit for themselves or to share via community dump, or into hosting? Why do one or the other when we can do both :(

An adless experience is obviously a nicer exprience but there are only so many times you can ask people to keep donating when there are natural disasters etc and year on year for the most part it is probably the same small minority supporting the freeloading majority. Even natural disaters when there are a few in rapid succession, despite relief/aid for noble causes they receive less money crisis on crisis with people being bummed out by previous charity. What happens when the regular donaters think fuck it, they paid their dues to last a lifetime and stop donating? The board dies and we let it? Everything that has a beginning has an end but with some subsidies it will not be for the forseeable future ;)

It will cost about $0.25 per member per year to keep the site running. The majority will not even donate $0.01 but the minority may donate $10, on more than one occasion too. Advertising, albeit not the most ideal of solutions, distributes the responsibility for payment much more fairly and donaters will have to stump up less to plug the deficit, if any. Any profit = win.

[mairsil]

Advertising is no better, as it is effectively a 24-7 "fundraiser" instead of an annual or semi-annual event.

[LeGIt]

Exactly. But it is a 24-7 fundraiser where everyone plays their part whether it is pay per view or pay per click and it can be done in a manner so it is not so in your face too.

Even the freeloaders thanks to adverts will end up doing their part too, albeit inadvertently :P

Of course we will probably still have fundraisers but then at least there will be more funds available for community dumps and not so much worry for hosting.

[mairsil]

Advertising cannot be done unobtrusively period. Advertising + fundraisers causes people to wonder why there is advertising in the first place (i.e. it looks greedy, regardless of whether or not it is). Fundraisers (seem to) have worked just fine for the past couple of years. I understand that Kevin is looking at alternatives, but I think that it will be a bad move for both the website and the bottomline.

[LeGIt]

Well if you care to elaborate as to why it would be a bad idea I'm all ears, but your post doesn't explain why it is a bad idea, only states that it is.

I'm not saying an advert can be done unobtrusively but it can be done tastefully.

To be honest I'd be interested in leasing a subdomain. I'd probably not make much use of it but if I was given a nice starter sized package at a reasonable rate I'd take it to show off my (current lack of) collection or whatever and I'm sure others may too. Such reasonable rate could be at a small markup towards overall operational costs, but even this idea rolled out across every interested member probably wouldn't keep the boards running without adverts or a donation.

Of course, if it is just a matter of you prefer people to have less money available for other things or prefer to let the freeloaders do so at the expense of others, especially in a period of austerity, then I won't understanhd it but no problem.

[retro]

Advertising cannot be done unobtrusively period. Advertising + fundraisers causes people to wonder why there is advertising in the first place (i.e. it looks greedy, regardless of whether or not it is). Fundraisers (seem to) have worked just fine for the past couple of years. I understand that Kevin is looking at alternatives, but I think that it will be a bad move for both the website and the bottomline.

Bullshit.

Like legit said, there are over 8,000 users (8,553 to be precise) and a large percentage of them won't contribute a penny. Hell, a large percentage of them don't contribute a damn thing - 5663 have a 0 post count. To be honest, they probably registered back in the day when certain areas were restricted to registered users only, e.g. the Marketplace. I was all for that, but it got revoked to get better results from search engines.

However, if you're worried about the bandwidth those users are using, they're actually small fry. When I looked a few minutes ago, the stats read:


Currently Active Users: 330 (81 members and 249 guests)

So only 25% of users currently browsing the forums have even bothered to register! The rest are getting information for free, at our expense.

Does having ads AND the option to pay to turn them off seem so greedy now? The non-members who have no intention of signing up and talking to us clearly won't pay for the site costs. Why shouldn't they have to suffer a few ads?


I like the idea of contributing members being able to turn the adds off! I think that for active non-contributing members they could get a big flashing banner at the top stating "PLEASE DONATE NOW", everytime they log in, until it gets to the point where they get annoyed with it and donate! This will keep every member honest then!
PS2Guy!

Do we get the option to pay to turn your flashing avatar or grossly oversized signature off? ;-)

[Tchoin]

So only 25% of users currently browsing the forums have even bothered to register! The rest are getting information for free, at our expense.

Does having ads AND the option to pay to turn them off seem so greedy now? The non-members who have no intention of signing up and talking to us clearly won't pay for the site costs. Why shouldn't they have to suffer a few ads?


This :pray:

[LeGIt]

This :pray:

Your reponse is a little ambiguos in that I do not know if you agree with retro or it is a piss take, but whilst you'r down there... :P

Going from the statistics provided by retro from the posting members it would cost each member above 0 posts $0.76 per year in site costs to keep us up and running yet even then the majorty of registered users wont donate at all. Those that do will eventually grow tired of doing so irrespective of loyalty to the community.

On top of this there are an exponential number of people viewing the site with no contribution whatsoever. Is it fair that those who share information also have to share the cost? :( Perhaps, but why not have the non-contributors contribute passively by sharing the burden with pay per view or pay per click tiny banners? They eventually become part of the furniture when you learn to ignore them so I do not understand the resistance. Read between the lines: ASSEMbler probably wouldn't even suggest it if there wasn't a real need for it in the forseeable future, especially when assholes come here selling something they shouldnt and the site gets hit with legal fees which he personally pays for.

I don't know how else to effectively articulate my stance. I do not want adverts, but they are a necessary evil, if anything to give donaters a break and those that have yet to do so the ability to share the burden without adversely altering their unregistered or isolated viewing habits.

[mairsil]

Does having ads AND the option to pay to turn them off seem so greedy now? The non-members who have no intention of signing up and talking to us clearly won't pay for the site costs. Why shouldn't they have to suffer a few ads?

This isn't what I was getting from LeGIt's posts, specifically the comment:


even ads regardless of whether you donate or not

Making the site ad infected for the unregistered/leaches is fine with me if there is a way to get rid of the ads for the rest of us.

[LeGIt]

This isn't what I was getting from LeGIt's posts, specifically the comment:



Making the site ad infected for the unregistered/leaches is fine with me if there is a way to get rid of the ads for the rest of us.

This is a welcome change in stance which some other people have taken but it still won't be enough. Even the pay per view or pay per click from the 3000 or so posters and the 5000 or so 0 post leechers @ $0.01 a time over the course of the year will soon add up nicely and go a long way to keeping our personal costs down. Plus people may just register and make 2-3 posts before fading away just to adless browse then it is more lost revenue. The burden of cost for the site must be shared by all but to do that so shall the eyesore of advertisements. You will learn to ignore them anyway and some of the ads could be from other board members with something of interest for you too if you don't ;)

BTW remember when I dumped the unreleased PSone game Deuce? I had a hard time even getting $100 in donations as a contribution to my expense. I had a poll to dump it in part community expense or dump completely at my expense. The majority of people voted to dump at my expense.... aka freeloaders, not willing to share the burden just want the reward :( I almost didn't bother but lo and behold once I dump it all the freeloaders come out asking for download links :(

[retro]

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against sharing information with the community, but if you're going to get something out of a site, it's polite to give something back.

I don't want the site to be elitist. We should encourage new users to join up and chat. Even if their contribution is starting a conversation with a question, or telling a joke in OT, it's something.

I had a suggestion myself, although I guess it has been dismissed without putting it to the public, as it were.

One good way for members to contribute is to share an interesting item found on eBay in the eBay thread. However, I am somewhat against the fact that all and sundry can see that thread easily without even registering. It gives them a lazy way to find nice items. This is one reason why I think the Marketplace should require signing up, at least.

How much does eBay charge to list games? I believe it's 10% for auctions (plus 10p for £1 or more start price), or 9% for Buy It Now (plus 20p listing). That means that listing £50 worth of games will cost you £5 in fees.

How many people that list on the Marketplace have more than £50 worth of items to sell? Or, at least, over a year. Most, I'd say! (Apologies for working with UK examples, it's late here and I'm not up for much thinking!)

Why not charge a nominal fee to access the Marketplace? Say $5 for a year. I'm sure sellers would be happy with this, as they'd easily be saving still over eBay costs. Buyers may be comforted that they're not going to be pipped to the post by non-members, and still feel they're getting value for money with a nice range of items for sale, plus the eBay and YJ listings.

That would, of course, need 500 members (nearly 10%) to raise $2500. You could still incorporate this with an ads idea, having them switched off AND access to the Marketplace for your $5. And/or you could keep a fundraiser going on top.

[Tchoin]

Your reponse is a little ambiguos in that I do not know if you agree with retro or it is a piss take, but whilst you'r down there... :P


Sorry, I wasn't very expressive with that :P, I agree with retro, if you read my previous posts you can see I support the ads for non-members idea, I find it great and it would be a nice way to deal with all those lurkers that do not contribute at all with this community in any way, it would be a way to make them register and join us instead of just lurk around.

[retro]

Even the pay per view... will soon add up nicely and go a looong way to keeping our personal costs down.

You can't use your one-handed controller on the forums! :-0

[angelwolf71885]

We don't have to, but would you rather the people put their money into buying more kit for themselves or to share via community dump, or into hosting? Why do one or the other when we can do both :(


dude you sound like a socialist

thats spreed the wealth around right there if i decide to be charitable thats my desishion and mine alone not someone elses to force apun me

besides ill just use ABP to block specific ads and no script and never see any ads

[Alchy]

it is probably the same small minority supporting the freeloading majority.So what? If that bothers you then don't donate. The fundraiser hasn't had any problems in the past.


So only 25% of users currently browsing the forums have even bothered to register! The rest are getting information for free, at our expense.Surely the whole purpose of sharing information publically is to make it available? Not everyone wants to register for forums, some peple are happy enough just reading, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest. I don't see why adverts should be placed there if there's no need for them.


I do not want adverts, but they are a necessary evilBollocks are they "necessary", the current system works fine. The year that the fundraiser fails, the ads should come in, but not until then.

[LeGIt]

dude you sound like a socialist

thats spreed the wealth around right there if i decide to be charitable thats my desishion and mine alone not someone elses to force apun me

And your problem with that is? Do you decide where your taxes go or are you a tax dodger? If you vote for a change to benefit your community or yourself does it happen unless you are rich or connected? Never mind, politics have a dedicated thread and not to be discussed here. Besides, no one is telling you where to spend your money. If anything the adverts will mean you have more money to yourself as you won't have to donate as much every 5 minutes.

The adverts will just enable visitors, which are the majority of site users, to contribute towards costs too, which is only fair.



besides ill just use ABP to block specific ads and no script and never see any ads


If you are going to block the ads, fine, then I see no logical need for you to resist when you will not be adversely affected? Those that don't adblock, their contribution would no doubt be welcomed.


So what? If that bothers you then don't donate. The fundraiser hasn't had any problems in the past.

We are not talking about the past. We are talking about an uncertain future. It makes no sense to turn to ads when we may have desperate times, though I'm not saying we are desparate at this moment. It would take a lot of months for the ads to make any sizeable income whatsoever and by that time if there is an emergency and cash is in short supply we could be fucked. It is best to plan ahead to future proof hosting expenses so if there is a crisis it will need less donations and as such we should have more ability to plug the gap.


Surely the whole purpose of sharing information publically is to make it available? Not everyone wants to register for forums, some peple are happy enough just reading, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest. I don't see why adverts should be placed there if there's no need for them.

No one is saying don't share the information. But all those unregistered or no poster views could contribute with their pittance from a passive pay per view or click.


Bollocks are they "necessary", the current system works fine. The year that the fundraiser fails, the ads should come in, but not until then.

Why do you think ASSEMbler would ask? Because it is failing and/or he cannot afford to keep personally bearing the brunt of any legal costs when some idiot tries to sell something they shouldn't. Is it fair ASSEMbler pays for that? Would it be fair for the users to pay that? IMO the idiot seller should be paying it but it isn't going to happen. We are in this together, registered or not.

The registered people above 0 posts have paid their dues in one form or another and the unregistered or stalkers have also benefitted and it is right that they should. Information should be freely available but that doesn't mean it is without cost. It is only fair the non-participants pay their fair share too, regardless of whether we need their money or not.

[Alchy]

Why do you think ASSEMbler would ask? Because it is failingWith respect mate that's pretty presumptuous. If the site is in trouble I have no doubt he'll let us know.

[LeGIt]

Read between the lines....

[retro]

Actually, the site has run at a loss before now. Kev swallows the cost and doesn't moan about it.

Wasn't it last year that we had a donation of an Ultra 64 board? That sold for what, $800? Do you think the site donations alone without that board would have been enough to cover the running costs?

Kev put a lot of work into some invisible changes last year, changing servers, hours of backing up, ironing out bugs, upgrading and testing. We had issues copying the database, and I spent several hours going over possible solutions with him. He gives his own time for free so that we have a site. This version of the site has been running nearly 7 years now. If it cost $2,000 each of those years, do you think that it has received $14,000 in donations over that time?

[Juste]

We can only reach the total amount in donations that Kevin sets though. I think for this year he said we need $2200 for the forum, yet you imply that it is still far from enough. Is the forum really costing so much money to run? More than what is asked in donations?

Maybe other members would not be so against ads if they new/had a better understanding of how much the forum is really costing, because if it really is costing so much then I think every little bit counts and ads could help with that.

I'd choose donations/fundraiser but only because of what we have been told, but if the forum is costing much more than what is needed then I think I'd support ads as well.

[angelwolf71885]

And your problem with that is? Do you decide where your taxes go or are you a tax dodger? If you vote for a change to benefit your community or yourself does it happen unless you are rich or connected? Never mind, politics have a dedicated thread and not to be discussed here. Besides, no one is telling you where to spend your money. If anything the adverts will mean you have more money to yourself as you won't have to donate as much every 5 minutes.

The adverts will just enable visitors, which are the majority of site users, to contribute towards costs too, which is only fair.





If you are going to block the ads, fine, then I see no logical need for you to resist when you will not be adversely affected? Those that don't adblock, their contribution would no doubt be welcomed.





my issue with you being a socialist is they are worthless people
who want nothing but central control ( soviet Russia, Hitler the queen of england, the UK, the EU and Obama, Nixon )
they all want to tax the crap out of there citizens rather then deal with issues in an intelligent manner


just like YOU want to tax the users of assymblergames
by placing ads on every square inch of relistate on the site
annoying users and taxing them by forcing them to see the ads
its still a tax because they have to see the ads weather the click on them or not

rather the dealing with it by charity of the forum members witch has worked just fine since assymblergames has been around

another thing you also make me sick when you care more about how valuable a beta will be rather then the intellectual gain reaped from the beta by dumping it

its still valuable but only a nice collectors piece and thats the way it should be

freedoms not socialist bullshit because i shouldn't have to block ads here
if your so concerned that assembler if about to collapse then take that 500
you were going to pay for giest and donate it to assymblergames

ass you yourself said better to donate it to a good cause then buying yourself something nice

[LeGIt]

@angelwolf71885

a) I already mentioned it, Socialism should not be up for discussion here, use the unmoderated thread if it bothers you that much.

b) A dictatorship can be a good thing if the dictator is genuinely uncorruptable and has the best interest of people at heart, which thus far has not been the case. It is not a bad system there are only bad examples.

c) You can be a socialist without central control. What sort of narrow minded and biased education did you have? Oh wait.. probably American =/ (no offence to my American brothers from other mothers - I know you're not ALL bad)

d) The users of ASSEMblergames need to pay for the service in which ever way is best for preserving our freedom to spread information, but the bulk of the users are not lifting a finger. Will you donate $10 knowing 1000 people won't even donate $1? Go on, you know you want to. It is a fair system, right? WRONG! If we did it the capitalist way none of the visitors or 0 posters would be able to see anything, yet stalkers are the largest demographic here.

e) Ads will not tax the users in any way whatsoever. It is misguided to think such thoughts. The users pay no money to view the advert. The advertiser pays for the advert to be viewed. Seriously I don't see how you fail to understand this?

f) I no longer care as much about the value of my betas as I once did. I had to get permanent brain damage to think this way. Does this say something? I think it does - it says I had to become retarded to think dumping ROMs at my expense would be a good idea =/ I worked my ass off at minimum wage to afford to buy my betas so naturally I'd be concerned about depreciation. FYI when I dumped Deuce it cost me $200. I asked for half in donations ($100) and the other half ($100) came at my expense. Given the large number of people who voted to dump it completely at my expense I almost didn't bother and it is the reason my other unreleased games remained undumped. I guess you haven't checked the downloads section recently either?

g) Don't block or view or even have adverts then but when the donations dry up, fall short or ASSEMbler thinks fuck it he has had enough don't complain to me when the site inevitably dies and your community has vanished. There won't be an Ultra64 or similar donation every year to meet the quota.

h) We're in it together. Socialism isn't about me paying up $500 so you can view the site so it is not going to happen. (BTW my Geist offer was $301... WTF @ $500?) It is about sharing the burden, which when most of the people freeload yet don't take up the slack is rather unfair. I would donate $301 for mandatory adverts for ALL users though. This is how firmly I believe this needs to be done. Also note I'm not an advertiser nor am I knowlingly affiliated with one. I'll also happily subscribe at an annual rate equal to the cost of the site divided by number of members. Will you?

i) Good causes and charity can be the same or similar thing to socialism. Donating to keep the forum up could also be considered a socialist act. I don't see how you can be anti-socialist but pro-donator. Possibly because you may not intend to donate and want others to pay for you?

j) I actually offered to donate my Amiga CD32 Engineering Sample/prototype modem for the site archive. Getting an address to ship it out to ASSEMbler is incredibly tricky though as his replies are often vague or cryptic so I have no shipping address as of yet. Those who speak to him directly may know what I mean.

k) Don't talk to me about intelligent discussion when most people do not understand the meaning or the measure of intelligence. I doubt you understand it too, but if you care to englighten me with your pearls of wisdom, please take them to private message so that I may educate you as to why you will be wrong :)

l) The old RoarVGM site with ezboard forums were ad supported but they still rocked so...


I've given up caring.

If you want to let ASSEMbler keep taking the hits from unpredicted costs without doing something simple such as looking at a fucking picture which you will probably ignore then I can't see what you are still doing here.

At the minute the way the site operates is unbalanced. 99% of donations from 1% of users will only perpetuate this injustice. Adverts are a means to address such imbalance as at the minute there is no other viable option for proportional representation.

[retro]

We can only reach the total amount in donations that Kevin sets though. I think for this year he said we need $2200 for the forum, yet you imply that it is still far from enough. Is the forum really costing so much money to run? More than what is asked in donations?

Maybe other members would not be so against ads if they new/had a better understanding of how much the forum is really costing, because if it really is costing so much then I think every little bit counts and ads could help with that.

You think $2,200 is a small amount to run a website for a year?!

Actually, that's JUST the cost of running the server. There's also the cost of the license for the forum software. Were any commercial plugins implemented or designers hired, that cost should be factored, too. And we don't take into consideration Kev's time spent maintaining the site. Time is money, yet he gives up time that he could be using to do something that earns him money to administer the site. For free.

How much is the average user going to donate? $5? $10? $20? I would say that's probably a reasonable amount to expect someone to donate - between $5 - $20. At $5, we'd need 440 members to donate. At $20, we'd need 110 members to donate. If we're looking for, say, 100-400 users to donate, that's still a lot of people.

As for the comments on having ads forced on you, that's bullshit. You would more than likely be given the opportunity to pay to have those ads disappear. I would call that a donation that gives you something back, wouldn't you? Besides, how many of the following do you use?

Windows Live Messenger
Yahoo! Messenger
Facebook
Myspace
eBay
YouTube
Amazon
IMDb
GameSniped
IGN
GamesRadar
GameSpot
Gizmodo
Reuters

ALL of the above use advertising and/or sponsorship on their sites and services. You probably don't even notice on some of them.

My advice to those whinging about the possibility of ads on the site (and moreso the possibility of them ONLY being for those who don't give a small donation)? Grow the fuck up and stop complaining.

[Juste]

retro, if you are going to quote me, please do it fully and properly.

I never said that I think $2,200 is a small amount to run a website for a year, and I never said anything about having ads forced on you.

All I said was that is how much Kevin said we needed for this year. He said "For this year I can either switch us over to ads, or try to raise the $2200 we need for the forum for the year.

The ads would be game related, probably store or game ads.

What are your thoughts?"

Nothing more.

My thoughts would be to have a fundraiser again, but based only on what Kevin has told us.

[LeGIt]

He has told us more than that though. Read between the lines :( The very fact we are even having this discussion for what is probably the first time I can recall in my 8 years here speaks to the gravity of the situation. (bear in mind my memory is shit these days!)

The situation here is similar to a rectal itch - you can either deal with it right away and have little to no issue or keep chafing it until it is a painful ungodly mess. A switch now would help minimise or delay any disaster later.

As I have stated time and time again though. Even if we can keep making the donation quota, is it fair 1% of donators pay for 99% of the users? No.

This thread should be about more than what is practical or possible but what is right :(

[retro]

Ah damnit, my quote failed again!

Sorry that it cut the quote in half, but I don't need to quote your ENTIRE post as I was only referring to that part, Juste.

Please get your facts straight. I said "as for the comments on having ads forced...". I did not say as for YOUR comments, Juste. I don't have to dedicate my ENTIRE post just to you. Sorry, but there are others on here with an opinion, and I started a new paragraph to refer to them.

Yes, Kev said he can TRY to raise the amount needed through donations. You should be reading that as he has doubts as to whether he will succeed. I'm not going to go into private conversations between Kev and I in public, but let's just say I know he has concerns about the fundraiser this year. FACT.

I want to make another point, but for your benefit, I'll wait and start a new reply. Don't want you getting confused ;-)

[Juste]

There is no point to reply properly. :(

Being confused isn't so bad. ^_^

[retro]

There is no point to reply properly. :(

Being confused isn't so bad. ^_^

True... I'm often living in a state of confusion ;-)


my issue with you being a socialist is they are worthless people
who want nothing but central control ( soviet Russia, Hitler the queen of england, the UK, the EU and Obama, Nixon )
they all want to tax the crap out of there citizens rather then deal with issues in an intelligent manner

Ah, nice to see those American bullshit capitalist propaganda newsreels of the 50s sank in, there!

Actually, socialism is acting FOR the people. Yes, the taxes may be a bit higher, but it goes back to the people. For example, the NHS. As I just said, Americans put out this bullshit propaganda in the 50s that "a social health care system is what happens in communist countries - and you don't want to be a communist, do you?" What a load of utter crap! Incidentally, it was Nixon who put out those newsreels! Nixon was AGAINST social health care... so how the hell is he a socialist?!

In socialism, people pay taxes so that EVERYONE has access to a service - the NHS, libraries (bit controversial at the moment) etc. In a capitalist country *cough USA*, you fend for yourself health-wise and are screwed if you can't. Those who pay get the service. Those who don't, don't.

So, you're saying we should ONLY get funds through donation? So some users choose to donate, others choose not to, but everyone benefits from it? Surely THAT is socialism?!

By the way, commas are a great thing. I think you'll find that our Queen is NOT Hitler ;-) You'll also find, if you research your facts properly, that the royal family haven't taken taxes in many years. That's the job of the government. In fact, The Queen now pays taxes herself - voluntarily.

[kiff]

EDITED*

Posted in error

[mairsil]

You would more than likely be given the opportunity to pay to have those ads disappear. I would call that a donation that gives you something back, wouldn't you?

No, I would call it extortion :-P

Seriously though, I'm fighting this because there are only two sites left that I view which don't have ads: this one and the Microsoft development site for XNA games (but I'm definitely paying for that one in many ways).

[Hawanja]

Anglewolf, keep political talk in the unmoderated thread please. We are adults here.

I still vote for ads. A lot of you guys say you never click them, which is fine, becasue you still get paid per page impression. Not as much as a click generates, but it's still $$$. With the amount of traffic Assemblergames.com gets you'd be able to rais $2200 no problem.

P.S. - Hitler was not a socialist, and neither is Obama. Learn the difference please.

[Alchy]

verbal diarrhoea250 posts and not one of them has been worth reading.


He has told us more than that though. Read between the lines :( The very fact we are even having this discussion for what is probably the first time I can recall in my 8 years here speaks to the gravity of the situation. (bear in mind my memory is shit these days!)All of this is a storm in a teacup imo. The fundraiser has worked fine in the past and it hasn't even started this year. I don't know where all this doom and gloom is coming from, there aren't really any lines to read between - Kevin asked whether we wanted ads or a fundraiser, and most people seem to have posted in favour of the latter. Why are we still having this discussion?

[retro]

All of this is a storm in a teacup imo. The fundraiser has worked fine in the past and it hasn't even started this year. I don't know where all this doom and gloom is coming from, there aren't really any lines to read between - Kevin asked whether we wanted ads or a fundraiser, and most people seem to have posted in favour of the latter. Why are we still having this discussion?

WRONG! The fundraiser has been a failure in the past. The reason we're still having this discussion is because of this ignorant attitude that people generally have that the fundraiser has always covered costs. Also, on the general belief that costs = server cost alone. Also wrong!



Total site costs since 2005: $5600
Total funds raised since 2005: $1200
Total out of pocket costs: $4400

[Alchy]

The fundraiser has been fine for the last few years and that's all that matters. What happened in 2005 is irrelevant to the current situation, that's six years ago ffs. And anyway, if the fundraiser's failure is a foregone conclusion, why even bother asking which we prefer?

I'm going to bow out of this debate until Assembler actually comments on what he's going to do. $2200 seems like an achievable goal for a fundraiser to me, and there's no harm in trying anyway. The rest of this discussion is a lot of hot air.

[Juste]

I think we can only raise what Kevin sets though, and if we reach that then it has not failed.

[Taucias]

Smaller banner ad on the top of page or the side and a fundraiser. $2200 seems high for forum hosting though. Have you shopped around lately?

I like the idea of paying to go ad-less. An annual donation = no ads when logged in.

[retro]

Smaller banner ad on the top of page or the side and a fundraiser. $2200 seems high for forum hosting though. Have you shopped around lately?

I like the idea of paying to go ad-less. An annual donation = no ads when logged in.

It's not high. To get this many hits, you need a dedicated server, not shitty shared hosting. Plus, if any companies serve a DMCA takedown, standard web hosts will simply pull the plug.

Precisely! Paying to remove ads is just like donating. Only the fee would likely be smaller than some people would donate - so it's win for them. I don't see why anyone would complain at that - unless they didn't plan to donate.

[K-Panggg]

I think that as has been said before, non registered users should endure a couple of ads here and there, and for the rest of us, no ads and a fundraser should be implemented.

Regarding the badge... well. Being a Nintendo fan, I would love to have another Nintendo related badge, but I can tolerate a little sonic for a while :p

[Hawanja]

So far this year with my pathetic piece of shit site I've earned $400, without any additional work on my side. I haven't even updated it in more than a year. This site gets like 5000 times the traffic that I do. I really think you people should consider the potential.

Wasn't the plan to bring back the Assembler museum and put ads on that, and keep the forum ad-free? That would probably bring in more than enough.

[LeGIt]

So far this year with my pathetic piece of shit site I've earned $400, without any additional work on my side. I haven't even updated it in more than a year. This site gets like 5000 times the traffic that I do. I really think you people should consider the potential.

Wasn't the plan to bring back the Assembler museum and put ads on that, and keep the forum ad-free? That would probably bring in more than enough.

Alas someone with a sensible alternative. I didn't consider that but I have been missing the old RoarVGM site and there were things there worth checking out. The only problem I think is the forums are spidered up the wazoo with more keywords in a thread than a museum page could muster.

I think once people see the forum threads first they have less need to visit the archives so it may get less traffic. With that being said perhaps it could still get enough, but still won't be as much as ads everywhere of course and IMO the more $$$ the merrier :o

[retro]

Developing a museum site = more cost.

Throwing money at a designer isn't really the way to start a fundraiser!!

[Hawanja]

Developing a museum site = more cost.

Throwing money at a designer isn't really the way to start a fundraiser!!

Someone here want to donate their design skills?

[IcarusNick]

If you want this forum to last over the long term, it needs to become self sufficient.

[z_killemall]

Someone here want to donate their design skills?
I could give a hand with it if you want. I have some experience with Mediawiki and some other CMS systems. The website in my signature has a Mediawiki-based wiki with a few modifications to become more integrated with the rest of the website.

Just let me know if you're interested.

[retro]

I doubt it'll be Wiki based after last time!

[LeGIt]

Moderated wiki? As in all entries must be proof read and approved? ;)

[z_killemall]

Actually it's not that hard to keep a wiki spam-free. All you need to do is block anonymous editing, and if you want more safety, admin aprobation for all user accounts.

Also there's a mod for phpBB that creates a mediawiki username for each forum user and blocks user registration (I use it in my wiki and I never received a single spam attack), maybe there's something similar for vBulletin.

[retro]

User editable Wiki for the museum would be a bad idea.

[LeGIt]

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28805


The new museum has so much content it must be supported by ads
or similar types of revenue generation. We cannot not afford the bandwidth otherwise. The forums are ad free and will remain that
way thanks to member support.

:O

Perhaps the museum may make enough hits to pay for the lot then but still we will really be better off (and ezboard nostalgic) if they are everywhere. vn though the forums are barely affordable now there is no good reason not to roll ads out and make the boards need less donations.

[SuperGrafx]

Would prefer ad-free, but I'm fine with whatever option as long as the site continues to exist.

I don't particpate as much as I used to, but I still check back in from time to time for informative and educational posts.