I have an idea for a Gun Shooting game, but have no idea where to start.

[Siren]

Hi, everyone.

Last night I was hit with an incredible idea for a Gun Shooting game. I had the general system thought out in my mind and everything.

So I stayed up until the wee hours of the morning dreaming this up. And it was one of those "too good to be true, but I must make it" moments. Unfortunately, I cannot disclose much info with you guys so please forgive me. (Believe me, I really really really want to tell the whole world about it. I've never been this excited in my life.)

I have many concerns about where to go from here.

1. To have, more or less, full creative power over the project, would I need to get a degree in Game Development or Game Design/art or both? Game design seems to be mislabeled most of the time, since those getting the degree are trying to make games like Braid and indie crap like that... The game I want to make appeals to devout arcade-goers only, so which is the best road academic-wise to meet the likes of Time Crisis' developer Namco? Could such a degree be earned in an American college at all? How long does it take to get one? What would be my next step once I did get one? Does it matter at all, and should I just settle for any Bachlor degree in Game Development at any random university?

2. Should I ask (Once it has a patent.) Namco to work with me on the project, or would I be better off making my own studio? The problem with the second one is I have no idea who would be interested in sharing my vision and making it a reality. At the same time, if I sided with Namco, would they not have more say in what goes into the game than I? After all, my experience with the industry is goose egg, and I have no reputation whatsoever. How can I convince them that I am the man for the job?

3. Where would I patent such an idea? Is it even important to worry about getting one at this stage?

These are my most important concerns at the moment. Thank you so much for reading.

[Alchy]

To get full creative design over a project you need to have spent a decade working your way up the game development industry and have stacks of experience and successful projects under your belt, OR be really, really rich and start your own company.

Reality check, mate. Everyone and his dog has ideas for a great game.

[CRTGAMER]

Why not go the indie route? Instead of Arcade, make a PC version? Though not common, there are PC lightguns. Or if you have the coding capabilities, all the current consoles now support a light gun style of gameplay. The one saving grace of motion controls.

[josiahgould]

I know how you feel. For years I've had the most perfect idea for an open world, vehicle based, seafaring RPG. I have absolutely everything planned out, and it's ready to go. But I don't know how to program, don't know how to draw, and have no money.

It takes a lot more than a good idea to make something actually happen, unless you're already at the top.

Me, I've decided to take my idea and develop it into stories, with the eventual goal of writing a book. That way at least I might get my idea out into the real world. It hurts to not be able to do what you originally envisioned, but at least it might help to take that creative monkey off your back.

[redstar_dan]

Here are my views on this.

If you seriously wanted to get into the games industry, there are more courses available now that deal in games. I studied Computer Games Design at university (I live in the Uk, studied at teeside uni) and I now work in the Industry. Saying this, I do know a good few people who did not go to uni, went straight into QA, testing and all that gubbins, and have moved up the ladder into design and producer roles. I can imagine this is not the norm, but maybe something to bare in mind.

Reality is, the industry its not all peaches and cream. You have to put in a lot of hours, if you do not like working lates for no extra money, you will not like the games industry. Weekend work is quite normal as well. Even as a contractor, it takes the piss, however I do love my job. Its not always long hours and weekend work, but when you hit crunch time, its bye bye social time.

Once you are in and have your foot in the door so-to-speak, working for a company, you could pitch your ideas till your hearts content. However If you genuinely do have a great idea for a game, it will become property of that company and even though you will get a decent enough position on the team as it was your idea (lead design or whatever) reality will be that they could axe you at any stage of the process. Its a cut-throat ruthless industry, please be aware of this. Some companies may give you royalties if your game is successful, but a lot do not do this.

The cheapest way round this is to try and get into the pc Indy scene. I dont know to much about any of the Indy scene, however I believe that as soon as you get into Indy on consoles, it will start costing you a lot of cash. There are a lot of hurdles with XBLA and PSN.

My knowledge is not very strong on any of this, however these are my feelings from working in the industry.

Hope this has been of some use and is not too negative.

[Siren]

Saying this, I do know a good few people who did not go to uni, went straight into QA, testing and all that gubbins, and have moved up the ladder into design and producer roles. My father is a QA engineer! Interesting...

Would going down this path --and inevitably designing games-- exempt me from taking coding/programming/etc. classes? That is probably a really stupid question, but I'm just curious.

I must admit, I don't know what I'm getting myself into. But you never know unless you try, so here goes nothing.



The cheapest way round this is to try and get into the pc Indy scene. I appreciate the suggestion, but that would defeat the whole purpose of working to make this dream happen. I'm guessing the hardware available to all indie devs is of abysmal quality in comparison to the big names like Cave, Platinum Games, etc. Yes, you are right, I could get totally screwed. But that is a risk I am willing to take.

You have been very insightful redstar_dan! Thank you!


Reality check, mate. Everyone and his dog has ideas for a great game. I believe it!


It takes a lot more than a good idea to make something actually happen, unless you're already at the top. Your idea sounds awesome! I would totally play that!

I think you can make it if you really tried. It is an incredibly daunting process, I agree; and I'm not crazy about the idea of working my ass off for ten years. But I believe that once we get into the industry, things will start to fall into place, and it won't be so bad as we originally thought.

Your enthusiasm is there, so don't let it go to waste. You can make that game eventually.

[Alchy]

it won't be so bad as we originally thought.The people I've known who've tried their hand in the game industry, and all the industry commentary I've seen, say the opposite. It's a fucking rough place, primarily because it has access to a steady stream of bright-eyed and driven young men like yourself who will tolerate poor pay and terrible hours for a shot at working on a game. I remember some statistic regarding the level of turnover in the industry; basically, many/most people leave within a few years of joining. I can't find that article now but give this one a read:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/29292/Analysis_Is_The_Game_Industry_A_Happy_Place.php

By all means move into this industry if you're passionate about it. Expect a hard time, though, and don't expect to work on anything other than Bratz/Sudoku/Winnie the Pooh etc for the first few years.

[Twimfy]

I can't really offer any advice as far as the industry goes but all I will say is do something, start something right now.

Wether it be picking up your first programming book, doing some online lessons or just drawing some pictures. Get moving.

[social_drone]

i dont want to hijack this thread or anything, but ive been trying to reteach myself to program after like a 16 year break. the intended purpose is to eventually make something of a small game ive been thinking about for the past decade. ive been going over old text books i have, and ive kind of hit a wall. everything i know or am using to teach myself is pretty dated. i quickly realised that i needed to take some refresher algebra/calculus courses, besides that...i was just wondering if anyone knew some good up to date online teaching resources or books that would help.

[mairsil]

The game industry is no different than any other industry: it's a job where you have to do work, many times not work you want to do. Believe me when I say that designing, building, debugging, balancing, polishing, marketing and selling a game is not always fun and games. It helps to have enthusiasm, but that will only get you so far. Once things start becoming boring, frustrating or just less fun, you need a lot more than enthusiasm to get through.

Ideas are also a dime-a-dozen. Here's a freebie: combine a lightgun with a DDR pad for a more motion based shooting experience, without the hassle/expense of capture equipment (e.g. Police 911). Sure, it might be something truly new (no offense, but I doubt it), but an idea is worthless. To be blunt, you will not be able to talk to a publisher without some pretty amazing luck. Maybe if you had a really good playable demo, you might get a publisher to take a look.

Truth be told, the only way that you will get your idea made is to make it yourself, find similar minded people and work with them to make it, or pay someone to make it.

[Siren]

I appreciate the first paragraph, but the second is very rude.

There are good ideas and shit ideas. My concept for a game is, without a doubt in my mind, absolutely amazing. It will be a Godsend for fans of the genre who are sick of the "press one button to duck bullets, reload, shoot" formula. It also takes elements of Shoot-em-ups (Rank.), and 3D Action games like Gunvalkyrie.

So yeah. Because I've never made a game before= it must be a generic or bad idea. Thanks a lot.

Oh and FYI: It's impossible to create something completely original. With the exceptions of the earliest games for each genre, all games borrow (And the greatest ones elaborate on) mechanics from previous games.

Bayonetta would not exist if Viewtiful Joe never happened. Viewtiful Joe would have never happened if the primitive Beat-'em-Ups before it were never created. Etc, etc.

[Alchy]

I appreciate the first paragraph, but the second is very rude.It isn't rude. You are offended because it's realistic, which is something you need to take on board.


There are good ideas and shit ideas. My concept for a game is, without a doubt in my mind, absolutely amazing.See? You're not listening.

Ideas are worthless, everyone has ideas for great games. Money talks, experience counts, but ideas aren't worth shit. Deal with it.

[mairsil]

So yeah. Because I've never made a game before= it must be a generic or bad idea. Thanks a lot.

I might intentionally be blunt on this topic, but I never said anything about the quality of your idea; I wouldn't be able to without seeing it first. I merely said that an idea is worthless without an implementation.

[Siren]

mairsil, you are absolutely correct about an idea being worthless on it's own without putting it into practice and working your ass off to make it happen. This I understand.

And I should not have said "second paragraph", because it's only this that offended me:
Sure, it might be something truly new (no offense, but I doubt it)Maybe I have poor reading comprehension skills, but what else is this supposed to imply other than a passive-aggressive attack on my intelligence?

So to recap:
Sure, it might be something truly new (no offense, but I doubt it...) It sounds like you doubt my abilities here, but the rest of the sentence,


...but an idea is worthless. I could not agree with more.

[redstar_dan]

Truth be told, the only way that you will get your idea made is to make it yourself, find similar minded people and work with them to make it, or pay someone to make it.

This could not be put any better.

In terms of working for a large(ish) company;
If you did manage to get the idea in motion, which you believe is really awesome, will sell, makes loads of people happy, but cannot take criticism very well, the chances are that you will get angry very quickly and everything will spiral. The reason being is that the top level big guns, exec producers and so on, can dip there fingers in and warp your idea to there views. Marketing generally has a big impact on certain aspects of your idea and in the end, your awesome idea may be twisted and changed. Believe me, its frustrating when non designers with authority can come in and medal with your ideas, however its something that you will get used to quickly. Its not all bad mind you, as they are all talented people, and its what makes a good game sell. Its important to be passionate about your idea, it really is, however do not become to fixated on your specific idea. Think out your idea with different pathways, out comes, etc as at any point the big guns can come in and say, you cant make this and that because it wont appeal to the masses and sell X number of units. This has happened at times on the game that I am working on at the moment, at the start myself and our design team had awesome ideas for the game, this slowly got warped by higher level people above the design team, however as we are passionate, can take critasism, we are able to work smoohly and create something just as superb however meeting everyones needs. I hope that make some sense, I am very sleepy right now :)

Edit;
Somebody mentioned, whatever you decide on doing, start now. This you must, you will need to really get moving. The course that I went on was your normal 3 year degree course. This covered all the main aspects of the industry, allowed me to dabble in elements and see what I really enjoyed, and then let me specialise. I covered basic coding, design, art etc. In the end I specialised as a 3D Artist, and also concentrated on Design. I really liked to coding side, however much preferred the art route. I did find tho that I had to self teach myself everything more or less. I was fairly good with lectures, I think I attended a good 80 - 90% of lectures, however even this is not enough. I did however work my balls off in my spare time, teaching my self 3DS max and Maya.

[Siren]

The reason being is that the top level big guns, exec producers and so on, can dip there fingers in and warp your idea to their views.This is really depressing.

You are both right. My best option is to make my own studio. For that I would need to take a three year course in Game Design, as well as working another job to get start-up money. It will also give me time to find the right people to work with.

Now just to make sure: this route would ensure that my creative input would be 100% untampered with, correct?

EDIT: And even if the game sells abysmally, and no arcade would buy it, I would have still succeeded if only 100 units are released; and one enthusiast buys and enjoys it.

[marshallh]

Don't start the business then start work.


Start work on it yourself and create a business only when you need to.


If you dive in and start learning about this stuff you will understand why we are saying what we are. It's too hard to persuade someone otherwise.

[Alchy]

as well as working another job to get start-up money.I don't want to be the one who constantly beats on your ideas, but are you aware how much a normal retail game costs to develop? Nobody will support such a startup unless you've got an impressive portfolio and experience already. Also, once you have investors, you have to answer to them, and your 100% control starts seeping away.

If I was in your position I'd do the game design course, but make sure that the uni has an arrangement with a local game developer. This is pretty common practice, from what I remember of looking for myself a few years back - the dev house skims the cream of the student crop afterwards and get some content free in the process. This would provide you with a literal foot in the door and might give you a chance to pitch an idea to them, though I assure you they won't leap at it, at least not with an inexperienced student at the helm. However, it'll give you an avenue to demonstrate how passionate you are for the idea and either way you'll be getting valuable experience.

Alternatively I know EA and some others offer intern schemes. If you want to dive straight in after a degree, that's an easy opening.

[mairsil]

This thread is really making me want to finish up Poker Night...

Anyway, don't get a game degree just because you think it will help you. It won't. It might help you to learn the inside-and-out of making games, perhaps improve your programming and/or art skills, but it is not a golden ticket into the game industry. Anyone can learn to make games. Not everyone is cut out to be in the industry. If you are still serious about making a game or getting into game design, your first step is here:

http://sloperama.com/advice.html

[Siren]

Thank you so much for that link! I've read several of his lessens already, and I feel even more confident about choosing this career. To a certain degree, I feel as if I have nothing to lose.

It's so great to know there is not one single college to get the "best degree".

[Barc0de]

XNA is your friend.

make a programmer your friend too, an artist as well if your hands are broken.

Always keep in mind, work with what you have, not what you wish you had - the results will speak for themselves.

[rso]

make a programmer your friend too, an artist as well if your hands are broken.

Don't forget a decent musician and/or sound effect person.


Always keep in mind, work with what you have, not what you wish you had

True. Remember, you can always replace artwork etc with better stuff later - concentrate on just getting something done first. Also, be prepared to redo huge parts of the project from scratch if necessary.

[Cyantist]

It's a fucking rough place, primarily because it has access to a steady stream of bright-eyed and driven young men like yourself who will tolerate poor pay and terrible hours for a shot at working on a game.

Exactly why my brother gave up on it. Got the experience was shitty and dropped out a few months from grad. Its okay going into a job to do with one of your hobbies but it leaves you burnt out and bored of it

[Alchy]

burnt out and bored of itEveryone I know who's got into game dev (or worse, QA) has kind of lost interest in videogames as a hobby as well. I doubt I'd be here posting if I'd ever made the jump.