remember the M2 'Dungeon' or doom-like 1st person demo ?

[GigaDrive]

does anyone have images or perhaps even video footage of the 3D0 M2 first person 'Dungeon' demo ? also sometimes referred to as the 'Doom' demo. circa 1995-96. This demo was either a pre-rendered sequence or real-time sequence on an SGI workstation, simulating the M2's capabilities.

more discription: there was a warrior like monster fighting you. I remember it had a shield. I think maybe the monster blocked the players attack (shot or strike with sword) with that shield.

I rememeber seeing this demo on television and being totally blown away, thinking that M2 games would look like this. The quality of this demo sequence was probably around Dreamcast graphics level, probably more than the real M2 could handle.

this demo is probably the 2nd most famous demo for the M2. the most famous would be the "M2 Car Demo" aka
"M2 Racing Demo"


Now that I've researched this more (thus my editing of this post) I can say that both of those M2 demos (Car and Dungeon) were really simulations of M2 on an SGI workstation. supposedly done on-the-fly, realtime, and not prerendered.


now If I remember the 1st person Dungeon / Doom-like demo then I'm sure that Assembler must also (I hope!) since he's an M2 collector. :-D



.....getting desperate.....I think I should post this on rec.games.video.3do and other newsgroups..... don't let me down guys!

[Purge]

I've seen pictures but I wouldn't call the console better than dreamcast. Its ability looked significantly better than N64 but not quite as good as DC. I think assembler actually has a working proto and some footage. Just waiting on Yakumos FTP I think : ).

[Alchy]

Certainly M2 was nothing close to what GC/Xbox can handle. M2 was 66Mhz PPC 602, GC is 485Mhz (PPC 750-something). M2 could cope with about 750k textured real-world polys/sec. Nice for the time but not anything particularly special, nowhere near DC for example.

[Yakumo]

I have some M2 pictures and footage from D2 opening for the M2. It's no where near as good as what a Dreamcast could do but it is better than the Saturn , PSX, N64. Head on over to my site and look under the Movie section for the FTP login details.

Yakumo

[VitAmen]

" rememeber seeing this and being totally blown away, thinking that M2 games would look like this. the quality was above Dreamcast graphics and probably on par with what Gamecube and Xbox can do today."


????????????????

[cahaz]

does anyone have images or perhaps even video footage of the 3D0 M2 dungeon demo? circa 1995-96, which was either a pre-rendered sequence or real-time sequence on workstations simulating the M2.

I rememeber seeing this and being totally blown away, thinking that M2 games would look like this. the quality was above Dreamcast graphics and probably on par with what Gamecube and Xbox can do today.

wrong system man , the M2 is better than the n64 with the expension ram , but it can't compare the 128 bit generation at all.

[Sneth]

dual power pc chips?
that is coming damn close to the dc....

[Alchy]

http://nfg.2y.net/games/polystars/
According to NFG:

The screenshots shown by Panasonic were faked, the hardware was nothing special for the time, and the only released games bear all the hallmarks of early 3D games: flat shaded polygons with minimal textures and fanciful abstract 3D objects without even a nod to realism, undoubtedly because the hardware couldn't handle it and at the time few people were skilled enough to produce it.

[AntiPasta]

Some (but not many) screenshots here (http://assembler.roarvgm.com/Panasonic_m2/panasonic_m2.html)

[PrOfUnD Darkness]

Some (but not many) screenshots here (http://assembler.roarvgm.com/Panasonic_m2/panasonic_m2.html)

Looks like a Saturn game in high res.



PD

[cahaz]

Some (but not many) screenshots here (http://assembler.roarvgm.com/Panasonic_m2/panasonic_m2.html)

Looks like a Saturn game in high res.



PD

nah, it's better than the saturn in therms of fx and texture, take a look at it again! ;-)

i'll search in my old magazines , it showed a power test of the m2 , it looked pretty impressive, i doubt it was made with the real m2 specs though....

[GigaDrive]

Look guys, I completely understand that the real M2 hardware was nowhere near Dreamcast capability, let alone PS2, GCN or Xbox.

I do realize that M2 was more like a beefed up N64.

what I was saying was, the Dungeon Demo which was most likely pre-rendered (and therefore beyond M2's realtime ability) was closer to what you see on Xbox or Gamecube today.


I was in bno way suggesting that M2 and its realtime graphics ability was anywhere near current consoles.



p.s. the twin PowerPC processors of M2 where nowhere near the performance of Dreamcast's single Hitachi SH4.



the M2's PowerPC's produced something like 132 MFLOPs peak, each, whereas the Dreamcast SH4 produced 1400 MFLOPs (1.4 GFLOps) and sustained 900 MFLOPs.

M2 could handle around 700,000 texture mapped polygons/sec peak. and 300,000 to 500,000 with gouraud shading, lighting and all features turned on. making M2 significantly more powerful than PS1 or N64 but nowhere near Dreamcast's 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 million polygons.



....and still no pictures of that cool M2 Dungeon demo :smt022

[GigaDrive]

I've still had no luck whatsoever finding a picture of the M2 'D&D' like Dungeon demo. or even the more famous car demo. anyone out there with M2 footage on tape or even magazine pictures, please respond :-D

[cahaz]

i love to know more about the m2 and made some research in the past, but i've never heard about the dungeon demo, sorry.

[Paulo]

I've still had no luck whatsoever finding a picture of the M2 'D&D' like Dungeon demo. or even the more famous car demo. anyone out there with M2 footage on tape or even magazine pictures, please respond :-D

Tehres a few pictures on page 5 of the beta pictures sticky...

[GigaDrive]

Tehres a few pictures on page 5 of the beta pictures sticky...

I know. I posted those. they're not of the d&d / dungeon demo i was speaking of....

[GigaDrive]

here is a post on rec.games.video.3do about the M2 dungeon demo




M2 Screen sheets of the dungeon demo.

Very nice screen shots. Everyone should take a look these. The
resolution/detail is incredible (a bit TOO nice, let's hope the actual
hardware can generate images like these). These images aren't from
actual M2 hardware but from the SGI-based "emulator", right? I don't
really get it, but if MIP-mapping can render texture maps this
smoothly and with this much detail, I'm sold! My personal belief was
4M wasn't enough to hold the large textures maps needed to render
scenes with this much detail.

But why is it I never heard anyone discuss this demo at E3 or at the
NY rollout? These are by far the most impressive demo screen shots
out there. Most discussions just mention the racing game and
dinosaur/fighting demo.


here is the interesting part of another thread
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=8AF52FE.1072002CBB.uuout%40inno.com


From: YVAN RIVARD (yvan.rivard@inno.com)
Subject: M2 IS THAT INCREDIBLE?!?

Newsgroups: rec.games.video.3do
Date: 1995/08/17


The other day, I saw (on TV) a running demo of a doom-like shooter and a
racing game. Seeing theses running is way better than still pictures.

But what I'm asking:
What I saw was done by the M2 in real-time?!? That wasn't some video
sequence? That CAN'T be!!! If the M2 is THAT good, I don't even CARE about
what SHIT Nintendo is going to do! Were theses games runned from real
M2-hardware or some stupid SGI emulation? If that's really what the M2 is gonna
looks like on my TV, at home, well, even Sega ARCADE games looks like they're
5 or 10 years behind! :)

Thanks for any comments on this!







That is a complicated question. The demos you saw were not orignially done
on the M2. 3DO was up front about this from the beginning (though cynics
will point out that someone had to ask). In fact, they have described
exactly how the demos were done. They did carefull measurements of the
performance of the chips based off a simulation of the electronics, and
then applied these limitations to an SGI workstation to create the demos.
The full description of this process was given by official 3DO personel,
and is available from a chat log on AOL.

What this boils down to is that these demos are supposed to very acurately
represent what the M2 is capable of rendering in real time. They were not
intended to be demos of actual games, which is evident in the
un-realisticly good control and artificial inteligence of the monsters (one
monster was smart enough to use a table for a shield).

Rumors abound that these demos have since been ported to actual M2 units,
and are running fine, but there has been no official confirmation of this.

Rumors also say that the early M2 developers units ran at 50 Mhz, instead
of the final 66 Mhz, and were still capable of 450,000 full featured polys
per second with un-optimized code. If this is true, the 3DO's performance
specs may be very close to realistic figures, rather than the hyped up
figuires that everyone is used to.

Finally, rumors say that the M2 standalone will cost around $399 and the
upgrade will cost around $199. Again, no official confirmation.

With luck, we will be getting better information soon. 3DO promised that
the second phase of press releases would come during the summer. I am
hoping they release the information prior to the PSX release.

--------------------------------------------------------------



Lots of questions huh? :)

Here's the low down. the demos were done on api simulated hardware. these
are very accurate models of the hardware designed for the M2. Don't take it
the wrong way though because these types of things are done all the time to
test the architecture to be sure it works. Anyway 3DO employees have
stressed repeatedly in chats and at E3 (yes I was there) that the demos were
of REAL TIME action. Not prerenderd FMV--again per the api, which is just a
simulation. Due to the legal issues involved with being publicaly owned
(unlike Sega, Sony, Nintendo) they have to accurately portray their product
or they will not only fail in the market, they will loose investors and
possibly face lawsuits. In reality the demos you saw were using a fraction
of the theoretical power the M2 has.

As far as the game itself, the car demo will become a REal game. Wether its
final form closely resembles the demo is up for debate but the game has been
picked up and currently being developed (from 3DO in AOL chats). The
dungeon game will in fact become 2 games as there are two developers eager
to make this game. Again the style will be there but don't expect carbon
copies of the games since they are really only early demos.



It was a "video sequence", in that it was just a video-taped "demo" of
what the M2 hardware SHOULD be able to do. At the time the demos were
completed, 3DO had not yet received any of the "real" M2 chips.

: If the M2 is THAT good, I don't even CARE about
: what SHIT Nintendo is going to do! Were theses games runned from real
: M2-hardware or some stupid SGI emulation?

Um, yes. It was a stupid SGI simulation of M2-hardware performance.
They claim that they were quite careful in their calculations so that the
simulation would be accurate. I have heard nothing (and believe me, I've
been listening) from people who HAVE see the M2 hardware about the demos
being inaccurate. We'll have to wait til sometime next month to get a
better idea though. Those demos DO seem unbelievably good...

: If that's really what the M2 is gonna
: looks like on my TV, at home, well, even Sega ARCADE games looks like they're
: 5 or 10 years behind! :)

Well, perhaps a year behind... I think we'll see "M2-like" graphics in
the arcades at about the same time we see the M2. (Next year)