Virtua Fighter 2 for ps2 emulated>????????

[sayin999]

Today segaxtreme posted news that virtua fighter 2 for ps2 is emulated, this is based on a page that is tooken from segas website that explains some of the making of this port, and baisicly the person who posted this news on the main site said a friend of his translated the page and baisicly its emulated due to them not having all of the orignal code. You can check out the news story posted which is right here http://www.phantasy-star-universe.com/ and the sega page itself that talks about this http://www.sega.jp/community/segavoice/041014/01_4.html well this is some exciting news indeed, I'm curious if anyone is gonna translate the page talking about making the game for ps2.

[Paulo]

On an off note he says hes got fighting vipers emulated for the pc... anyone got a link?

[adam-james]

so, sega wrote a Model 2 emu for PS2.... that's madness!

Perhaps all that hard work was for the next batch of the SEGA AGES stuff.... lets hope we see other great model 2 games like virtua cop!

Now that i think about it... its not such a crazy idea.

:o)

[Nintendomad]

That is a pretty awesome technical feat to produce a model 2 emulator for the ps2.It shows the coding prowess that Sega still have.

It also shows the ps2 can still do some pretty nice tricks when coded for properly.It really is starting to shine in it's later life the ps2, it has gave me some of the greatest gaming memories I have ever had.It continue's to amaze me technically and seems to have caught up with the Gamecube and Xbox in terms of graphics and effects with the recent games such as Killzone, Metal Gear Solid 3, and Sega Rally 2005.Maximo and it's sequel...superb, GT3 and 4 ...superb, MGS2, Silent Hill 2, Silent Hill 3...superb, Winning Eleven series and Gradius 5...superb, Jak and Daxter, Initial D, and Gradius 3and 4 ...superb, not forgetting the wonderful Castlevania Lament of innocence.The list goes on and on and the ps2 really is a MUST own system now, to kid yourself on that it's not is utterly insane and is depriving yourself the joy of plying some of the greatest videogames ever created.

Do yourself a favour and own all four of the current consoles...Dreamcast, Gamecube, PS2, and Xbox and before people tell me Dreamcast is not current; it still has software in production for it (Chaos feild and other dating sims) and is therefore a current 128 bit console regardless of it's production status, the console is readily available in it's only active territory(Japan) so there is not an excuse not to own that as well.

You do need to get a ps22 though Yakumo :smt045

[LeGIt]

so, sega wrote a Model 2 emu for PS2.... that's madness!

Perhaps all that hard work was for the next batch of the SEGA AGES stuff.... lets hope we see other great model 2 games like virtua cop!

Now that i think about it... its not such a crazy idea.

:o)

I got Virtua Cop : Elite Edition for PS2 :smt083

[adam-james]

that be Virtua Cop 2: Rebirth i think... under some odd PAL name...

Might be wrong!

:o)

[Johnny]

From what i read, from hands-on opinions, the game is not smooth and the framerate is low.

:angry

[sayin999]

Well heres the skinny, the slow framerate is due to the fact that the arcade ran at 57.5fps(and supposedly people at sega felt the saturn version was a little too fast. Second its emulated, so its possibly going to be off due to limitation of emu and hardware, this post at gaming age forums compares the difference side by side with the arcade and ps2, it then goes with people examining why the port is this way, its a good comparison and read http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=19027&page=1&pp=50

[Yakumo]

Thanks for that link sayin999. It just goes to show thatthis isn't emulation. If it was emulation then it would look 100% the same in the stills but those PS2 textures look like shit. Why the hell did they completely change the Temple's textures? It makes no sense. Is this another result of lack of texture pushing power?

Yakumo

[Greatsaintlouis]

Say Yakumo, how much does this game retail for over there, out of curiousity?

[Chief Chujo]

Is this another result of lThanks for that link sayin999. It just goes to show thatthis isn't emulation. If it was emulation then it would look 100% the same in the stills but those PS2 textures look like shit. Why the hell did they completely change the Temple's textures? It makes no sense. Is this another result of lack of texture pushing power?

Yakumoack of texture pushing power?

2 options.

A. Fucking crap ass porting job. Seriously if Sega can't get a Model 2 game running properly on the PS2 they suck ass. If a gen 2 PS2 game like MGS2 can look that damn good and Sega can't get VF2 running properly they need to learn the finer points of PS2 programming.
Wouldn't be surpised as Sega are renowned for poor PS2 programming.
By the way. If you honestly think the Model 2 is capable of anything the PS2 isn't you are fucking kidding yourself.

B. The PS2 is Emulating Model 2 hardware. Even if it's only emulating at 1/2 speed that pretty impressive.

On another note the PS2 shots from that link are frame grabs. The model 2 shots are from a Digital camera.
If I took shot of a TS movie off of my PC screen with a camera as well as taking a screen grab on my PC guess which will look better.
In other words, Direct screen shots will *always* show up more errors and inaccuracies then one taken from a camera.

[Kron]

Its not emulated, I've been playing the PS2 version over the last few hours and the textures are terrible, The PS2 version looks quite poor to be honest.

Its just a bad port with an erratic frame rate.

[Yakumo]

Say Yakumo, how much does this game retail for over there, out of curiousity?
2800 yen before tax. Pretty sure that's the price range. If not then it will be 2500 yen before tax.


Sega can't get VF2 running properly they need to learn the finer points of PS2 programming.
Wouldn't be surpised as Sega are renowned for poor PS2 programming.

Sega have nothing to do with the PS2 Sega Ages 3D games. THey are programmed by a 3rd party company. All other Sega games look wank on the PS2 because of 1 main reason. Most of them were made for the Dreamcast originally which gives the PS2 great problems when it comes to textures.

Yakumo

[Chief Chujo]

Sega have nothing to do with the PS2 Sega Ages 3D games. THey are programmed by a 3rd party company.

I stand corrected. It's still a shite porting job though.



All other Sega games look wank on the PS2 because of 1 main reason. Most of them were made for the Dreamcast originally which gives the PS2 great problems when it comes to textures.

Meh...the texture excuse doesn't really hold any weight with me. I'm yet to see a DC game with textures significantly better then those in Tekken Tag, and that was a launch game.
It's not that Sega just flat out suck at programming. I just think they haven't had the time to learn the finer points of the PS2. Which would not be surprsing considering all the internal troubles they've had over the last few years and the complexity of the PS2 architecture.
AM2 eventually got it with VF4:Evo. It went from being one of the jaggiest games on the PS2 to one of the most beautifull.
Just have to hope it spreads through the rest of Sega.

[cahaz]

one question: is it faster than virtua fighter 2 on saturn?

is the game still enjoyable? (yah...i know, its a second question..)

edit: is this an arcade perfect convertion? (yeah....3rd.)

[Nintendomad]

Yeah as much as I love the good old Dreamcast, it has nothing to touch the best looking ps2 games in the texture department.Unfortunately there is some jaggies in alot of titles but they aren't nearly as bad as people make out and hardly noticable when you are looking at some gorgeous textures.

The dc was great and all but it lacked the triple a titles tha it needed from developers.

Also the ps2 port seems to be a rush job and they should have programmed it into the ps2 directly instead of using emulation.This is what Sega gets for not doing this.Compare VF4 evo with Vf2:sega ages and you see my point.To call this an estimation of the ps2's power's is not only laughable...it's downright desperate.

[PrOfUnD Darkness]

Yeah as much as I love the good old Dreamcast, it has nothing to touch the best looking ps2 games in the texture department.Unfortunately there is some jaggies in alot of titles but they aren't nearly as bad as people make out and hardly noticable when you are looking at some gorgeous textures.

I dont think it's fair. DC was killed when the first third gen games were in development, so its full power was never used...



PD

[Yakumo]

I dont think it's fair. DC was killed when the first third gen games were in development, so its full power was never used...

PD

So true. take a look as first gen DC games like Soul Calibur and then first Gen PS2 games. The DC titles not always but mostly look much nicer (through VGA anyway). Shenmue II is a prime example. that was in production before DC was even released and certainly looks better than any 1st gen PS2 game. I'm not saying that the PS" is less powerful than the Dreamcast because we all know it isn't. I'm just saying that the Dreamcast really never had the chance to meet it's full potential.

Yakumo

[Chief Chujo]

So true. take a look as first gen DC games like Soul Calibur and then first Gen PS2 games. The DC titles not always but mostly look much nicer (through VGA anyway).

You must be kidding.
Aside from aliasing issues Tekken Tag trounces Soul Calibur and VF3(Character models, textures, stages).
GT3 destroys Sega GT and Rally.
FFX does similar to the early DC Rpgs.
Gen against Gen the DC has no hope of going against the PS2 graphically.


Shenmue II is a prime example. that was in production before DC was even released and certainly looks better than any 1st gen PS2 game.

No it's not. It came out nearly 3 years after the DC's release. Doesn't matter how long it was in development for it still nearing 3rd gen.
Would you compare Doom 3 against PC games from 99 or 2000. It was after all in development for 5-6 years.

[Kron]

Tekken Tag Tournament? Is this some kind of joke?

I've had it since Japanese launch and must have touched it twice, The game has no style whatsoever and you guys are rose tinting on the textures as they really are not as good as you are professing.

http://ps2media.ign.com/media/news/image/tekken/ttt15.jpg

Ugly game, Stylistically poor.

[Yakumo]

Aside from aliasing issues Tekken Tag trounces Soul Calibur and VF3(Character models, textures, stages).
Shenmue II is a prime example. that was in production before DC was even released and certainly looks better than any 1st gen PS2 game.

No it's not. It came out nearly 3 years after the DC's release. Doesn't matter how long it was in development for it still nearing 3rd gen.
Would you compare Doom 3 against PC games from 99 or 2000. It was after all in development for 5-6 years.

Tekken Tag is bloody awful. Yes VF3 is shite, we all know that but Tekken Tag better than Soul Calibur?

By the way, Shenmue 2 isn't 3rd Gen. That game was made before the Dreamcast was released. There were videos of it running before the Dreamcast was released. So graphically it was complete and that's what we are talking about here. Shenmue 1 was actually made after Shenmue 2.

Yakumo

[cahaz]

the ps2 have more power than the dc , but the ps2 is a really hard to develop for. so , most of first gen ps2 title looked like shit, far worst than the actual dc games of the time. Just look at teken tag tournement...it almost look like a 64 game on steroids! (well,... maybe im too rough...but its still pretty ugly for a 128 bit.)

on the other side, look at what it can do when the machine is used well.... MGS 3 , GT4, Killzone, all those games look terribly howsome.... and im wondering why a ps2 can handle that. (try to compare GT4 with teken TT... they look to be made on 2 separed consoles. )

[Paulo]

MGS 3 , GT4, Killzone,

Is it just me or are you guys picking at the games that arent out yet...

The games that have been in Dev for many many years to get that kinda gfx out of the ps2... prob the last games for the ps2 to be anything of a big release and to have money put in to have those great gfx...

[Alien Workshop]

On the other side, look at what it can do when the machine is used well.... MGS 3, GT4, Killzone, all those games look terribly awesome.... and I’m wondering why a PS2 can handle that. (Try to compare GT4 with teken TT... they look to be made on 2 separate consoles.)

Yes, and if the DC stayed around as long as the PS2 has I am pretty sure that there would have been games that look just as good as GT4 on the DC. You never know.

Name some other games besides GT4 and Killzone. I am sick and tired of hearing people say, “The PS2 has just as much power as the GC/XBOX. Look at Killzone and GT4." Yes, and the GC and XBOX have been making games that look just as good/better than those since launch. But please, it's not about the graphics right. It's about the game play

[Metal_4evr]

Yes, and if the DC stayed around as long as the PS2 has I am pretty sure that there would have been games that look just as good as GT4 on the DC. You never know.

Alright then let's take a look at some of the specs of each console...

Dreamcast:
360 MIPS
1.4 GFLOPS
Peak 3+ million polygons per second

PS2:
450 MIPS
6.2 GFLOPS
Peak 75 million polygons per second (I'm assuming that that is an exageration since it is coming from Sony but the PS2 still has more power than the DC plain and simple)

Just as good as GT4? Maybe in your dreams...

[sayin999]

The thing is is that theres alot of fanboyism going around, for one thing people have to accept the fact that ps2 is the weakest of the bunch(and also the poorist made, why else do developers have such a hard time with it). However it doesnt mean that it can't produce good results, its just that it takes a bit of time to get some good stuff out of it. However the other two consoles have been showing great graphics since their launch(game cube and x-box) And this whole debate about the dc not being able to touch the ps2 is ridiculess, there have been numerous tests showing that games that were ported to ps2 from dc still looked better on dc(some still have a bit of a debate about if doa2 was better on ps2 or not), even tresure themselves said they couldn't port ikaruga to ps2 due to its lack of ram ( i belive thats what it was), Yu Suzuki even stated that shenmue was impossible to port to ps2. Even then as yakumo said shenmu 2 has be in development since the begining of dc, however it should be pointed out shenmue 1 &2 were once one game, but they released 1(which is chapter 1) due to the development time being behind schedual and i guess keeping people satsified for the time(this is similar to what they did with sonic 3 and the lock on cart) which then allowed them to further improve the game as well(based on feedback from people who played part 1). But still you have to face the fact that ps2 isnt really that powerfull as the make it seem( even proud owners of saturn addmitted the machine was weak in its 3d department, yet the right developers could get the results needed). I myself own a ps2 just for certain exclusives(mgs,gt,gta and other special releases). But i agree with alien workshop, its all about gameplay. And qute frankly these current consoles dont quite pack the steady wallop of good games in my opionion of the old ones. And belive me this isnt even being a fanboy, i still had more fun and still do with my dc then i do my ps2(and those who say ps2 has a huger selection, thats nice and all, but about 60-80% of ps2 games out up to this point are pure CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Thats my 2 cents.

[Alien Workshop]

Boy I hope I didn't sound like a fanboy to you. I was just saying that if the DC lived a little longer, we could have seen some better looking games on it. Also, before id-republix jumps down my throat, yes I said game play is more important than graphics, but I did not say graphics don't matter because they do. One more thing, Yes the PS2 has a large library, and like you said most of the games are crap. However, there are some great games for the PS2. I have a PS2 for some of those exclusive titles. With that said, I also have a GC, DC, and XBOX for their great exclusives as well.

[sayin999]

Well i wasnt viewing you as a fanboy, of course every system has its great exclusives

Ps2
Grand theft auto serise, metal gear serise, and gran turismo serise, also final fantasy

X-box
Halo, dead or alive, ninja gaiden, certain sega exclusives

Game cube
to keep it short pretty much anything by nintendo

I myself have a ps2 just for some of its exclusives, cube for the nintedo game mostly, and maybe if i have some extra cash an x-box for ninja gaiden,doa ultimate, and posibbly halo 2.

[cahaz]

On the other side, look at what it can do when the machine is used well.... MGS 3, GT4, Killzone, all those games look terribly awesome.... and I’m wondering why a PS2 can handle that. (Try to compare GT4 with teken TT... they look to be made on 2 separate consoles.)

Yes, and if the DC stayed around as long as the PS2 has I am pretty sure that there would have been games that look just as good as GT4 on the DC. You never know.

Name some other games besides GT4 and Killzone. I am sick and tired of hearing people say, “The PS2 has just as much power as the GC/XBOX. Look at Killzone and GT4." Yes, and the GC and XBOX have been making games that look just as good/better than those since launch. But please, it's not about the graphics right. It's about the game play

oh...damn, don't get me wrong again boy! first, ps2 have more pure power than dreamcast. second, ps2 is one hell of thing to program for! so yes, dc can match alot of ps2 games. third, i know its not about the graphics but about the gameplay! didn't you saw that war two weeks ago? ( :smt043 ) anyway, i was talking about graphics , not gameplay. can we separate the graphics and gameplay for one time plz?

anyway, its sure that gc and xbox can do better things than the ps2.... and that's pretty unbelivable to see to big ps2 titles' graphics , i wonder how they could make this with so much weakness and programming difficulties! congradulations!

still. its not about graphics , its about gameplay.
im not fanboyish, im just saying the facts. SO....
*hug* ninty
*hug* sony
and....
*slam!* microsofty!
nah....ok......

*hug*microsofty.... :smt083

*Hug* Ya! :smt045

:-D

[Alien Workshop]

On the other side, look at what it can do when the machine is used well.... MGS 3, GT4, Killzone, all those games look terribly awesome.... and I’m wondering why a PS2 can handle that. (Try to compare GT4 with teken TT... they look to be made on 2 separate consoles.)

Yes, and if the DC stayed around as long as the PS2 has I am pretty sure that there would have been games that look just as good as GT4 on the DC. You never know.

Name some other games besides GT4 and Killzone. I am sick and tired of hearing people say, “The PS2 has just as much power as the GC/XBOX. Look at Killzone and GT4." Yes, and the GC and XBOX have been making games that look just as good/better than those since launch. But please, it's not about the graphics right. It's about the game play

oh...damn, don't get me wrong again boy! first, ps2 have more pure power than dreamcast. second, ps2 is one hell of thing to program for! so yes, dc can match alot of ps2 games. third, i know its not about the graphics but about the gameplay! didn't you saw that war two weeks ago? ( :smt043 ) anyway, i was talking about graphics , not gameplay. can we separate the graphics and gameplay for one time plz?

anyway, its sure that gc and xbox can do better things than the ps2.... and that's pretty unbelivable to see to big ps2 titles' graphics , i wonder how they could make this with so much weakness and programming difficulties! congradulations!

still. its not about graphics , its about gameplay.
im not fanboyish, im just saying the facts. SO....
*hug* ninty
*hug* sony
and....
*slam!* microsofty!
nah....ok......

*hug*microsofty.... :smt083

*Hug* Ya! :smt045

:-D

Cahaz my friend, I am not trying to prove you wrong, and I am most certainly not calling you a fanboy :-) However, I was just stating that given time, the DC might have been able to put out games that look just as good as some of the current PS2 stuff. However, we will never konw. Oh, and I do remember what happened about two weeks ago. I know you are a stickler for game play over graphics :-D

[GaijinPunch]

Okay, settle down bitches. Here I come to stir the pot. Make note of these notes at the end of the article, when he points out some of their feats:

(note, I'm at work, and up to my ass in it, so am paraphrasing)

[quote]
Main CPU emulation:
blah blah blah... The heavy parts not emulated, but were rewritten in PS2 Native Code.

Memory Limitations:
On the Model 2, data accessed by the the Main CPU and Geometry Engine is taken from a large space. The PS2, however, has smaller memory (a bit misleading, but I think he means the block of memory) we had to load the next stage and character from the CD after each stage ended. [This also means it's not 100% emulated]

Graphics:
[I'm not going into the specifics, but he says basically if it were only the 3D engines they had to bother with, that alone is abou 10x different than PS2 hardware. However, they had to fuck w/ scrolling textures (a max of 4 simultaneous) plus something called a Raster scroll.] All of this equalled half of the PS2's processing power.

Same Graphics as Model 2:
We attained the Model 2 docs early on, but it took much more time than expected. Especially figuring out how to map map Model 2 texture memory onto a polygon. We dug up the actual converter tool [used by the original team], decoded it, used it, and were eventually able to do it.


If you know anyting about emulation you know that:
-This is not an easy feat
-This is not an emulated game... only parts of it are, especially given that he said, "the heavy parts were rewritten".

[AntiPasta]

The thing is is that theres alot of fanboyism going around, for one thing people have to accept the fact that ps2 is the weakest of the bunch(and also the poorist made, why else do developers have such a hard time with it).

*AHEM* The fact that it's architecture is complex does NOT imply that it is "poorist made". According to that logic, an architecture that runs native Visual Basic code would be superior :smt042



even tresure themselves said they couldn't port ikaruga to ps2 due to its lack of ram ( i belive thats what it was),


The DC has 16mb of main RAM, the PS2 has 32mb. The only thing the DC has more is video RAM (8mb vs 4mb), but that should not imply that it is totally impossible to port. The Saturn has more VRAM than the PSX, but still there's plenty of games that appeared on both systems, even the graphically intensive ones.

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, just felt like correcting some technical facts :-)

[Alchy]

The fact that it's architecture is complex does NOT imply that it is "poorist made". Agreed, but certain factors of the hardware do suck. No fast hardware anti-aliasing, no hardware texture compression, high latency RDRAM etc etc.

[adam-james]

Just got my copy in the mail today... cant wait to play it... shame im not going home for a few days!

:o)

[AM[x]]

Thanks for that link sayin999. It just goes to show thatthis isn't emulation. If it was emulation then it would look 100% the same in the stills but those PS2 textures look like shit. Why the hell did they completely change the Temple's textures? It makes no sense. Is this another result of lack of texture pushing power?

I don´t know any accurate emulator for 3D games, all i tried are far from perfect :smt1069


Alright then let's take a look at some of the specs of each console...

Dreamcast:
360 MIPS
1.4 GFLOPS
Peak 3+ million polygons per second

PS2:
450 MIPS
6.2 GFLOPS
Peak 75 million polygons per second (I'm assuming that that is an exageration since it is coming from Sony but the PS2 still has more power than the DC plain and simple)

You are talking about raw cpu power, and yeah, EE is better than SH4 , but the power vr 2 from DC is WORLDS FAR BETTER than the ps2 GS ( with minor cpu better graphic results ), another things is that DC does all kind of effects via hardware and ps2 relies in the cpu ( antialiasing for example.. even SOUND effects ). Ah, and DC can compress the textures at 8:1 ratio, PS2 lacks compression :smt042

No one can tell what DC can do because no one knows, she died soon :smt009