Storage and conservation of cartridge media

[ASSEMbler]

This thread is to address the proper storage of cartridge media.

1. Plastic conservation (primarily interaction)
2. Battery degradation and issues.
a. Cases of acceptable removal
b. Replacement parts

The questions right now are:

1. What cartridges for which systems have batteries?
NES/FAMI
SNES/SFC

Have they shown any kind of damaging deterioration?

Unknown /suggest - shown to degrade in arcade boards, older computers.
What kinds? Lithium? Does anyone have an original zelda cart
they can crack open to see how the battery looks.

2. Do any type of cartridges show tendencies to have
discoloration?

Superfamicom / yellow

3. Which ones do the labels fall off of or degrade?

Megadrive on the curved spine

What kind of glue is it. Is restoration acceptable or not to a collector?
(re-glue along the curved spine). Is it best to leave it alone? Opinions.

[babu]

Unknown /suggest - shown to degrade in arcade boards, older computers.
What kinds? Lithium? Does anyone have an original zelda cart
they can crack open to see how the battery looks.


You can find most NES carts with box art and PCB scans here:
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/

[DarthCloud]

Cartridge, memory card(like n64) and console motherboard use CR2032 battery that you can buy easily everywhere. PC Motherboard CMOS batt is also CR2032.

Small form factor hardware (like gba and gb cart) usualy use CR1616 batt.

[karsten]

concerning plastic. The famous plastic yellowing/color degradation is due to a chemical reaction (actually a degradation) of cheap, low quality plastic. This issue can be slowed down/avoided by not keeping the machine/cartdridge in direct sunlight, since the UV rays hasten the process. This is quite widespread known.


Another factor in the yellowing that i've never saw mentioned is temperature. It's more than reasonable to say that said yellowings can start or (for sure) worsen because of overeating/high temperatures.

The bad about this, is that it is a process that is not possible to stop, and it do NOT only involve the surface, but the whole body of plastic. so no treatment trying to take out the surface will be useless.

One REALLY important thing to consider is that NOT ALL the Batches of plastic have the same caracteristics. It all depends on the batch quality. So 2 snes owned by the same guy, kept togheter in the same place on the same conditions can result in a pristine and a yellow machine.

Many yellow snes have top yellow and bottom pristine. This is because of different batches or because differently colored plastic Degrades in different ways.

In short the black Sega Saturn plastic wether it is as cheap of the snes one or not, will never experience such dramtic changes, while the PSX, due to its color might be prone to it.

Lastly, some people say that the yellowing is because of smokers... Now as a far as my diplom in chemistry allows me to understand, is BS. I think no place is THAT smoky.

hope it helps somehow. ask questions and i'll elaborate.

karsten

Edited: so in short, i forgot my suggestions. Keep plastic that is white/gray or such in a dark place not hot place like your garage might be. If your item is Black/dark grey or such, you should have no big worries.

edited again: I forgot to state, that bad plastic batches will get yellow NO MATTER WHAT YOU'LL DO. You can only slow down the process. So A SNES that is not yellow today and has been used intensivly should be highly valued since even a brand new boxed one could get yellow in far shorter time.

[oldengineer]

Lastly, some people say that the yellowing is because of smokers... Now as a far as my diplom in chemistry allows me to understand, is BS. I think no place is THAT smoky.

hope it helps somehow. ask questions and i'll elaborate.

karsten




:banghead: ^^^ Seriously incorrect statement!!! :noooo:

...If you do decide to study for a diploma I'd advise you do a thesis on "Plastic(s)and their chemical reactions with low level (PPM) cigarette smoke", it will make interesting reading, trust me.

Typical cigarette composition is as follows:

Acetanisole
Acetic Acid
Acetoin
Acetophenone
6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane
2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine
2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran
Acetylpyrazine
2-Acetylpyridine
3-Acetylpyridine
2-Acetylthiazole
Aconitic Acid
dl-Alanine
Alfalfa Extract
Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil
Allyl Hexanoate
Allyl Ionone
Almond Bitter Oil
Ambergris Tincture
Ammonia
Ammonium Bicarbonate
Ammonium Hydroxide
Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic
Ammonium Sulfide
Amyl Alcohol
Amyl Butyrate
Amyl Formate
Amyl Octanoate
alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde
Amyris Oil
trans-Anethole
Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil
Anise
Anise Star, Extract and Oils
Anisyl Acetate
Anisyl Alcohol
Anisyl Formate
Anisyl Phenylacetate
Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins
Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate
1-Arginine
Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil
Ascorbic Acid
1-Asparagine Monohydrate
1-Aspartic Acid
Balsam Peru and Oil
Basil Oil
Bay Leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil
Beeswax White
Beet Juice Concentrate
Benzaldehyde
Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal
Benzoic Acid, Benzoin
Benzoin Resin
Benzophenone
Benzyl Alcohol
Benzyl Benzoate
Benzyl Butyrate
Benzyl Cinnamate
Benzyl Propionate
Benzyl Salicylate
Bergamot Oil
Bisabolene
Black Currant Buds Absolute
Borneol
Bornyl Acetate
Buchu Leaf Oil
1,3-Butanediol
2,3-Butanedione
1-Butanol
2-Butanone
4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil
Butyl Acetate
Butyl Butyrate
Butyl Butyryl Lactate
Butyl Isovalerate
Butyl Phenylacetate
Butyl Undecylenate
3-Butylidenephthalide
Butyric Acid]
Cadinene
Caffeine
Calcium Carbonate
Camphene
Cananga Oil
Capsicum Oleoresin
Caramel Color
Caraway Oil
Carbon Dioxide
Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder
Carob Bean and Extract
beta-Carotene
Carrot Oil
Carvacrol
4-Carvomenthenol
1-Carvone
beta-Caryophyllene
beta-Caryophyllene Oxide
Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract
Cassia Bark Oil
Cassie Absolute and Oil
Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute
Cedar Leaf Oil
Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana
Cedrol
Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin
Cellulose Fiber
Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract
Chicory Extract
Chocolate
Cinnamaldehyde
Cinnamic Acid
Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract
Cinnamyl Acetate
Cinnamyl Alcohol
Cinnamyl Cinnamate
Cinnamyl Isovalerate
Cinnamyl Propionate
Citral
Citric Acid
Citronella Oil
dl-Citronellol
Citronellyl Butyrate
itronellyl Isobutyrate
Civet Absolute
Clary Oil
Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract
Cocoa
Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder
Coconut Oil
Coffee
Cognac White and Green Oil
Copaiba Oil
Coriander Extract and Oil
Corn Oil
Corn Silk
Costus Root Oil
Cubeb Oil
Cuminaldehyde
para-Cymene
1-Cysteine
Dandelion Root Solid Extract
Davana Oil
2-trans, 4-trans-Decadienal
delta-Decalactone
gamma-Decalactone
Decanal
Decanoic Acid
1-Decanol
2-Decenal
Dehydromenthofurolactone
Diethyl Malonate
Diethyl Sebacate
2,3-Diethylpyrazine
Dihydro Anethole
5,7-Dihydro-2-Methylthieno(3,4-D) Pyrimidine
Dill Seed Oil and Extract
meta-Dimethoxybenzene
para-Dimethoxybenzene
2,6-Dimethoxyphenol
Dimethyl Succinate
3,4-Dimethyl-1,2 Cyclopentanedione
3,5- Dimethyl-1,2-Cyclopentanedione
3,7-Dimethyl-1,3,6-Octatriene
4,5-Dimethyl-3-Hydroxy-2,5-Dihydrofuran-2-One
6,10-Dimethyl-5,9-Undecadien-2-One
3,7-Dimethyl-6-Octenoic Acid
2,4 Dimethylacetophenone
alpha,para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol
alpha,alpha-Dimethylphenethyl Acetate
alpha,alpha Dimethylphenethyl Butyrate
2,3-Dimethylpyrazine
2,5-Dimethylpyrazine
2,6-Dimethylpyrazine
Dimethyltetrahydrobenzofuranone
delta-Dodecalactone
gamma-Dodecalactone
para-Ethoxybenzaldehyde
Ethyl 10-Undecenoate
Ethyl 2-Methylbutyrate
Ethyl Acetate
Ethyl Acetoacetate
Ethyl Alcohol
Ethyl Benzoate
Ethyl Butyrate
Ethyl Cinnamate
Ethyl Decanoate
Ethyl Fenchol
Ethyl Furoate
Ethyl Heptanoate
Ethyl Hexanoate
Ethyl Isovalerate
Ethyl Lactate
Ethyl Laurate
Ethyl Levulinate
Ethyl Maltol
Ethyl Methyl Phenylglycidate
Ethyl Myristate
Ethyl Nonanoate
Ethyl Octadecanoate
Ethyl Octanoate
Ethyl Oleate
Ethyl Palmitate
Ethyl Phenylacetate
Ethyl Propionate
Ethyl Salicylate
Ethyl trans-2-Butenoate
Ethyl Valerate
Ethyl Vanillin
2-Ethyl (or Methyl)-(3,5 and 6)-Methoxypyrazine
2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol, 3-Ethyl -2 -Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One
2-Ethyl-3, (5 or 6)-Dimethylpyrazine
5-Ethyl-3-Hydroxy-4-Methyl-2(5H)-Furanone
2-Ethyl-3-Methylpyrazine
4-Ethylbenzaldehyde
4-Ethylguaiacol
para-Ethylphenol
3-Ethylpyridine
Eucalyptol
Farnesol
D-Fenchone
Fennel Sweet Oil
Fenugreek, Extract, Resin, and Absolute
Fig Juice Concentrate
Food Starch Modified
Furfuryl Mercaptan
4-(2-Furyl)-3-Buten-2-One
Galbanum Oil
Genet Absolute
Gentian Root Extract
Geraniol
Geranium Rose Oil
Geranyl Acetate
Geranyl Butyrate
Geranyl Formate
Geranyl Isovalerate
Geranyl Phenylacetate
Ginger Oil and Oleoresin
1-Glutamic Acid
1-Glutamine
Glycerol
Glycyrrhizin Ammoniated
Grape Juice Concentrate
Guaiac Wood Oil
Guaiacol
Guar Gum
2,4-Heptadienal
gamma-Heptalactone
Heptanoic Acid
2-Heptanone
3-Hepten-2-One
2-Hepten-4-One
4-Heptenal
trans -2-Heptenal
Heptyl Acetate
omega-6-Hexadecenlactone
gamma-Hexalactone
Hexanal
Hexanoic Acid
2-Hexen-1-Ol
3-Hexen-1-Ol
cis-3-Hexen-1-Yl Acetate
2-Hexenal
3-Hexenoic Acid
trans-2-Hexenoic Acid
cis-3-Hexenyl Formate
Hexyl 2-Methylbutyrate
Hexyl Acetate
Hexyl Alcohol
Hexyl Phenylacetate
1-Histidine
Honey
Hops Oil
Hydrolyzed Milk Solids
Hydrolyzed Plant Proteins
5-Hydroxy-2,4-Decadienoic Acid delta- Lactone
4-Hydroxy-2,5-Dimethyl-3(2H)-Furanone
2-Hydroxy-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
4-Hydroxy -3-Pentenoic Acid Lactone
2-Hydroxy-4-Methylbenzaldehyde
4-Hydroxybutanoic Acid Lactone
Hydroxycitronellal
6-Hydroxydihydrotheaspirane
4-(para-Hydroxyphenyl)-2-Butanone
Hyssop Oil
Immortelle Absolute and Extract
alpha-Ionone
beta-Ionone
alpha-Irone
Isoamyl Acetate
Isoamyl Benzoate
Isoamyl Butyrate
Isoamyl Cinnamate
Isoamyl Formate, Isoamyl Hexanoate
Isoamyl Isovalerate
Isoamyl Octanoate
Isoamyl Phenylacetate
Isobornyl Acetate
Isobutyl Acetate
Isobutyl Alcohol
Isobutyl Cinnamate
Isobutyl Phenylacetate
Isobutyl Salicylate
2-Isobutyl-3-Methoxypyrazine
alpha-Isobutylphenethyl Alcohol
Isobutyraldehyde
Isobutyric Acid
d,l-Isoleucine
alpha-Isomethylionone
2-Isopropylphenol
Isovaleric Acid
Jasmine Absolute, Concrete and Oil
Kola Nut Extract
Labdanum Absolute and Oleoresin
Lactic Acid
Lauric Acid
Lauric Aldehyde
Lavandin Oil
Lavender Oil
Lemon Oil and Extract
Lemongrass Oil
1-Leucine
Levulinic Acid
Licorice Root, Fluid, Extract and Powder
Lime Oil
Linalool
Linalool Oxide
Linalyl Acetate
Linden Flowers
Lovage Oil And Extract
1-Lysine]
Mace Powder, Extract and Oil
Magnesium Carbonate
Malic Acid
Malt and Malt Extract
Maltodextrin
Maltol
Maltyl Isobutyrate
Mandarin Oil
Maple Syrup and Concentrate
Mate Leaf, Absolute and Oil
para-Mentha-8-Thiol-3-One
Menthol
Menthone
Menthyl Acetate
dl-Methionine
Methoprene
2-Methoxy-4-Methylphenol
2-Methoxy-4-Vinylphenol
para-Methoxybenzaldehyde
1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-1-Penten-3-One
4-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Butanone
1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Propanone
Methoxypyrazine
Methyl 2-Furoate
Methyl 2-Octynoate
Methyl 2-Pyrrolyl Ketone
Methyl Anisate
Methyl Anthranilate
Methyl Benzoate
Methyl Cinnamate
Methyl Dihydrojasmonate
Methyl Ester of Rosin, Partially Hydrogenated
Methyl Isovalerate
Methyl Linoleate (48%)
Methyl Linolenate (52%) Mixture
Methyl Naphthyl Ketone
Methyl Nicotinate
Methyl Phenylacetate
Methyl Salicylate
Methyl Sulfide
3-Methyl-1-Cyclopentadecanone
4-Methyl-1-Phenyl-2-Pentanone
5-Methyl-2-Phenyl-2-Hexenal
5-Methyl-2-Thiophenecarboxaldehyde
6-Methyl-3,-5-Heptadien-2-One
2-Methyl-3-(para-Isopropylphenyl) Propionaldehyde
5-Methyl-3-Hexen-2-One
1-Methyl-3Methoxy-4-Isopropylbenzene
4-Methyl-3-Pentene-2-One
2-Methyl-4-Phenylbutyraldehyde
6-Methyl-5-Hepten-2-One
4-Methyl-5-Thiazoleethanol
4-Methyl-5-Vinylthiazole
Methyl-alpha-Ionone
Methyl-trans-2-Butenoic Acid
4-Methylacetophenone
para-Methylanisole
alpha-Methylbenzyl Acetate
alpha-Methylbenzyl Alcohol
2-Methylbutyraldehyde
3-Methylbutyraldehyde
2-Methylbutyric Acid
alpha-Methylcinnamaldehyde
Methylcyclopentenolone
2-Methylheptanoic Acid
2-Methylhexanoic Acid
3-Methylpentanoic Acid
4-Methylpentanoic Acid
2-Methylpyrazine
5-Methylquinoxaline
2-Methyltetrahydrofuran-3-One
(Methylthio)Methylpyrazine (Mixture Of Isomers)
3-Methylthiopropionaldehyde
Methyl 3-Methylthiopropionate
2-Methylvaleric Acid
Mimosa Absolute and Extract
Molasses Extract and Tincture
Mountain Maple Solid Extract
Mullein Flowers
Myristaldehyde
Myristic Acid
Myrrh Oil
beta-Napthyl Ethyl Ether
Nerol
Neroli Bigarde Oil
Nerolidol
Nona-2-trans,6-cis-Dienal
2,6-Nonadien-1-Ol
gamma-Nonalactone
Nonanal
Nonanoic Acid
Nonanone
trans-2-Nonen-1-Ol
2-Nonenal
Nonyl Acetate
Nutmeg Powder and Oil
Oak Chips Extract and Oil
Oak Moss Absolute
9,12-Octadecadienoic Acid (48%) And 9,12,15-Octadecatrienoic Acid (52%)
delta-Octalactone
gamma-Octalactone
Octanal
Octanoic Acid
1-Octanol
2-Octanone
3-Octen-2-One
1-Octen-3-Ol
1-Octen-3-Yl Acetate
2-Octenal
Octyl Isobutyrate
Oleic Acid
Olibanum Oil
Opoponax Oil And Gum
Orange Blossoms Water, Absolute, and Leaf Absolute
Orange Oil and Extract
Origanum Oil
Orris Concrete Oil and Root Extract
Palmarosa Oil
Palmitic Acid
Parsley Seed Oil
Patchouli Oil
omega-Pentadecalactone
2,3-Pentanedione
2-Pentanone
4-Pentenoic Acid
2-Pentylpyridine
Pepper Oil, Black And White
Peppermint Oil
Peruvian (Bois De Rose) Oil
Petitgrain Absolute, Mandarin Oil and Terpeneless Oil
alpha-Phellandrene
2-Phenenthyl Acetate
Phenenthyl Alcohol
Phenethyl Butyrate
Phenethyl Cinnamate
Phenethyl Isobutyrate
Phenethyl Isovalerate
Phenethyl Phenylacetate
Phenethyl Salicylate
1-Phenyl-1-Propanol
3-Phenyl-1-Propanol
2-Phenyl-2-Butenal
4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-Ol
4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-One
Phenylacetaldehyde
Phenylacetic Acid
1-Phenylalanine
3-Phenylpropionaldehyde
3-Phenylpropionic Acid
3-Phenylpropyl Acetate
3-Phenylpropyl Cinnamate
2-(3-Phenylpropyl)Tetrahydrofuran
Phosphoric Acid
Pimenta Leaf Oil
Pine Needle Oil, Pine Oil, Scotch
Pineapple Juice Concentrate
alpha-Pinene, beta-Pinene
D-Piperitone
Piperonal
Pipsissewa Leaf Extract
Plum Juice
Potassium Sorbate
1-Proline
Propenylguaethol
Propionic Acid
Propyl Acetate
Propyl para-Hydroxybenzoate
Propylene Glycol
3-Propylidenephthalide
Prune Juice and Concentrate
Pyridine
Pyroligneous Acid And Extract
Pyrrole
Pyruvic Acid
Raisin Juice Concentrate
Rhodinol
Rose Absolute and Oil
Rosemary Oil
Rum
Rum Ether
Rye Extract
Sage, Sage Oil, and Sage Oleoresin
Salicylaldehyde
Sandalwood Oil, Yellow
Sclareolide
Skatole
Smoke Flavor
Snakeroot Oil
Sodium Acetate
Sodium Benzoate
Sodium Bicarbonate
Sodium Carbonate
Sodium Chloride
Sodium Citrate
Sodium Hydroxide
Solanone
Spearmint Oil
Styrax Extract, Gum and Oil
Sucrose Octaacetate
Sugar Alcohols
Sugars
Tagetes Oil
Tannic Acid
Tartaric Acid
Tea Leaf and Absolute
alpha-Terpineol
Terpinolene
Terpinyl Acetate
5,6,7,8-Tetrahydroquinoxaline
1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclo(8.3.0.0(4,9))Tridecane
2,3,4,5, and 3,4,5,6-Tetramethylethyl-Cyclohexanone
2,3,5,6-Tetramethylpyrazine
Thiamine Hydrochloride
Thiazole
1-Threonine
Thyme Oil, White and Red
Thymol
Tobacco Extracts
Tochopherols (mixed)
Tolu Balsam Gum and Extract
Tolualdehydes
para-Tolyl 3-Methylbutyrate
para-Tolyl Acetaldehyde
para-Tolyl Acetate
para-Tolyl Isobutyrate
para-Tolyl Phenylacetate
Triacetin
2-Tridecanone
2-Tridecenal
Triethyl Citrate
3,5,5-Trimethyl -1-Hexanol
para,alpha,alpha-Trimethylbenzyl Alcohol
4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-1-Enyl)But-2-En-4-One
2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-Ene-1,4-Dione
2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl Methan
4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One
2,2,6-Trimethylcyclohexanone
2,3,5-Trimethylpyrazine
1-Tyrosine
delta-Undercalactone
gamma-Undecalactone
Undecanal
2-Undecanone, 1
0-Undecenal
Urea
Valencene
Valeraldehyde
Valerian Root Extract, Oil and Powder
Valeric Acid
gamma-Valerolactone
Valine
Vanilla Extract And Oleoresin
Vanillin
Veratraldehyde
Vetiver Oil
Vinegar
Violet Leaf Absolute
Walnut Hull Extract
Water
Wheat Extract And Flour
Wild Cherry Bark Extract
Wine and Wine Sherry
Xanthan Gum
3,4-Xylenol
Yeast


...ALL of the ingredients listed will react with 'plastic', some very aggressively, including water, which of course the best universal solvent known to man!

Hope this helps.

[ASSEMbler]

I LOVE ethyl oleate!!

I have about 200 psx I can do some tests I suppose.
I think my primary concern is the batteries.

I'll try and get some zelda from the pawn shop and open them.

[karsten]

:banghead: ^^^ Seriously incorrect statement!!! :noooo:

...If you do decide to study for a diploma I'd advise you do a thesis on "Plastic(s)and their chemical reactions with low level (PPM) cigarette smoke", it will make interesting reading, trust me.

Typical cigarette composition is as follows:

CUTTED


...ALL of the ingredients listed will react with 'plastic', some very aggressively, including water, which of course the best universal solvent known to man!

Hope this helps.

first of all i'm ready to bow to any superior knowledge. :) and you might have better knowledge than me in chemistry, no problem, really. I'm well aware of the experts warnings about smoke and yellowing, but as for working experience and personal reasoning appears ridicolous. So personally i do not believe it even tought people with higher degrees than mine might say the opposite, i think thay talk mostly in theoretical way or in limit cases.

so:

i'm well aware of the effects of those chemicals on plastic, and what comes out of cigarettes.
BUT i don't think that people can survive in a room in wich there's enough of these chemicals around to impact the console's plastic :P. no seriously, we are talking of less than ppm quantities present in the smoke. and we do not (i think) directly blow on the console... also most of those chemicals are highly volatile so will float to the ceiling of the room. i do HAVE a diplom in industrial chemistry BTW.

i might be wrong, but i keep thinking that normal level smoke (compatible with staying there without feeling sick) in a room with normal aeration will not reach this bad levels able to impact the console.

in any case the yellowing case i think are at the least 99% due to the plastic, not because of the smoke.

also i wonder how deeply "smoke yellowing" would manage to affect plastic. it would probably affect mostly the outside surface of plastic i guess so in case it's REAL smoke yellowing, bruising away the plastic surface might bring back good color...


i would try it gladly, but i still have to find a SNES yellowed because of smoke... if anyone have one might be interesting for him to try.

[ASSEMbler]

No one is collecting shit from as smoker's house. So let's pass on that one.

[andoba]

You can turn yellowed plastics to white using 80% concentrated H2O2 IIRC. It's on the internet, they tried with an Amiga and worked, at www.elotrolado.net has been prooved too. And it isn't a matter of UV or temperature, people who left they're sneses at the closet, with no light at all and when they got it from the closet 15 years later it looked like a lemon.

[karsten]

You can turn yellowed plastics to white using 80% concentrated H2O2 IIRC. It's on the internet, they tried with an Amiga and worked, at www.elotrolado.net has been prooved too. And it isn't a matter of UV or temperature, people who left they're sneses at the closet, with no light at all and when they got it from the closet 15 years later it looked like a lemon.

Read my post with more care. I have elaborated about that and plastic batches and much more.

hydrogen peroxide might help, but not with all kinds of yellowing and all kinds of plastic. Also details and writings on the console/cart might get deleted and color be changed from anything to white or other colors.

so better making a test on a small unseen part before trying it on your beloved console.

[ASSEMbler]

You can turn yellowed plastics to white using 80% concentrated H2O2 IIRC. It's on the internet, they tried with an Amiga and worked, at www.elotrolado.net (http://www.elotrolado.net) has been prooved too. And it isn't a matter of UV or temperature, people who left they're sneses at the closet, with no light at all and when they got it from the closet 15 years later it looked like a lemon.

You really need to be careful with those chemicals.
It also makes the plastic a bit brittle.

[Speed]

I just opened up the 4 Zelda carts I have and none of the batteries show any
sign of corrosion. I have not checked any of the Zelda 2s, but Legend of Zelda
still has my 20 year old save games.


http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9610/zeldabattery1tj9.th.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zeldabattery1tj9.jpg) http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2952/zeldabattery2ds6.th.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zeldabattery2ds6.jpg)

[Joe]

A suggestion for a yellowing SNES would probably be a custom paint job. Obviously not the best solution, but no one wants one of those ugly yellow SNESes.

I think aside from corrosion, you also have to worry about the charge dieing. There is the rumor that booting up the game regularly will help the battery keep its charge longer. Any truth to this? From what I understand, it helps with CPS2 boards, but that's a different type of battery, right?

On the subject of labels, Atari 2600 labels come up all the time. You've got the infamous Acti-plaque, where black spots show up all over the label. A significant number of Activision cartridges have this problem, and the only game I own that does not have Acti-plaque is Beamrider.

Is there a life-span for these cartridge games? I've heard that Famicom Disc System games are prone to gradually demagnitizing over time. I'm not too familliar with the inner workings of an eprom, prom, and whatever else is used to store program data inside of cartridges to know if my Channel F and NES games will run 30 years from now.

[ASSEMbler]

It's a long lasting mixture with a hermetic seal. It doesn't pull a charge
and renew.

The problem with lithium batteries is when they do leak, they
are corrosive as hell.

I'm going to call up a few companies and ask. They will know for sure.

In button batteries I think it will come down to the lifespan of the
metal casing figuring in the corrosion of the contents.

I know for sure that any teradrives, mega pcs, and game copies
need to have their batteries changed asap.

The barrel type plastic shell lithiums don't hold up as well
as the button types. It think nintendo was very careful in choosing the
battery types.

[karsten]

batteries are supposed to last really long. leaking problems are usually due to low quality brand battery, or due to water/wetness.

I've been thinking about how to store properly carts protecting them from light, wetness, smoke, dust etc

and my best bet for long term preservation of the cart+insides from rusting/oxidating and wetness is this one:

http://www.ciao.it/Macchina_per_sottovuoto_Magic_Vac_Elite__274477

this machine is used to take off air from aliments and then wrap them in plastic by melting the bag's side.

these machines are really cheap, and the vacuuming is quite bland. Wrapping them this way and storing in boxes would for sure protect from light, wetness, dust, and smoke.

if you are a perfectionist or if the item you want to preserve is too big (like whole console/ cardboxes etc) you might try to use those boxes that are waterproof (the one that have a layer that looks like "petrolled" (can't find the english word) that are usually given in post offices for long shippings) and for being extra safe maybe adding silica gel to take care of excess wetness.

what do you guys think? good idea?

[ASSEMbler]

Plastics give off fumes that need to be vented off, or they may discolor.

Plus, plastic that soft has a lot of softeners in them that will leach or dry
out over time.

I was thinking more of an acid neutral rice paper really. Conservation
in other media is quite advanced, I was really just looking to address the
unique problems of our media.

[Importaku]

You can replace adhesive on labels using this great stuff, its the stuff they use to make labels in the first place.

http://home.earthlink.net/~billg4me/pinball/467MP/

[fluffstorm]

Information about the SNES' discoloring plastic: http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/189

[skavenger216]

Information about the SNES' discoloring plastic: http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/189

Great post, excellent read!!

[karsten]

wow i was almost 100% RIGHT! different batches, degradation, heat and UV rays as i stated :) even the same suggestions i gave. woooowwwww

oldengineer almost made my doubt my knowledge :D

[Arkanoid]

Yep you were right. It's the fire retardant in the plastic that oxidizes. I found MR Clean magic eraser and mild bleach (Clorox pens) work very well. I'd say just do a test on the back or the bottom of your console to see if eitehr have an effect.

[ASSEMbler]

There's chemicals to bleach the plastics in boats. You can use peroxide but
the accelerated oxidation would be very bad for plastic.

I think a test in the harsh winter sun would be in order.

Take a cart and put it out there and see how long it takes.
Put a cart in a hot but not sunny situation.

Clean the carts with a few methods, and then examine the surface textures
again.

Look into a solution you can soak the plastic in to stop the process.
I think sealing off the oxygen would stop the yellowing from returning.

However, the focus should be on preventing yellowing in the first place.

[ChiefPFF]

I'm just gonna jump in here and point you in the direction of the guys over at English Amiga Boards.. They've been investigating a solution for the oxidisation of plastics, and have even got an industrial chemist (!) among thier ranks.

Long story short..

Problem: Oxidisation of Bromine in plastics causes discolouration.

Solution: Removal of oxygen from bromine. Use Hydrogen Peroxide solution to replace the oxygen with hydrogen - restoring plastic to its original composition.

Very interesting reading here..

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=37808&page=6

and here..

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=458725#post458725

Look out for the posts by Merlin, tonyyeb and ZetrO.

And a wee piccy results they are achieving.. (I'm sure they won't mind the direct link)

http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=18310&d=1223733988

[karsten]

i'm diplomed in industrial chemistry too :)

in any case the case with the snes is different since the yellowing in that case it's on THE SURFACE while on the snes case IT'S ON THE WHOLE PLASTIC BODY (parts not exposed to the light too and the plastic's inside too).

that means that if you use h2O2 on a yellowed snes the results won't be the same. still worth a try tought :)

BTW be careful with hydrogen peroxide! you can get hurt with it.

[ASSEMbler]

Yeah you will blind yourself with anything over 70% unless you are skilled.

[BBaileys]

It looks like they are getting very good results from using the H202. The biggest issue I have is where do I get 30% H2O2. I live in a small town in Virginia so I don't have access to a chemical store. If anyone has any information or what commercial products are actually 30% H2O2.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[ASSEMbler]

Nothing. 30% h202 is waay too dangerous.

You'll have to mail order it.

I am not fucking around when I say it will blind you.
It's seriously not worth risking your eyesight over
making a game system whiter...

[karsten]

It looks like they are getting very good results from using the H202. The biggest issue I have is where do I get 30% H2O2. I live in a small town in Virginia so I don't have access to a chemical store. If anyone has any information or what commercial products are actually 30% H2O2.

Thanks for any help you can give.

i think You can find it in shops that sells products for swimming pools, and in some big distro shoping markets. maybe you can try in shops that sells paint too.

here is not too hard to find it.

PS if you are unsure/scared of using those chemicals i can give some suggestions on how to handle them.

[ASSEMbler]

i'm diplomed in industrial chemistry too :)

in any case the case with the snes is different since the yellowing in that case it's on THE SURFACE while on the snes case IT'S ON THE WHOLE PLASTIC BODY (parts not exposed to the light too and the plastic's inside too).

that means that if you use h2O2 on a yellowed snes the results won't be the same. still worth a try tought :)

BTW be careful with hydrogen peroxide! you can get hurt with it.

Karsten maybe you can school them on proper handling of H202 above 15%

[karsten]

i will as soon as i have a few free time. :)

[karsten]

So in short some real basic suggestions on how to handle Oxygen Peroxide (H2O2) and chemicals in genere.

First of all, it's important to understand that chemicals can be dangerous, so people playing around when you are using them, pets, little children ecc, are better not to be present when yuo are handling them.

H2O2 is used a disinfectant in very low concentration, and is basically harmless. But since we are going to use it in high concentration, we have to be careful.

The suggestions here will be "over-careful" with this i mean that *Me PERSONALLY* would not follow them. I consider the rubber gloves to be more than enough.

Rubber gloves are a really nice protection for your hands, and i suggest you to use them JUST MAKE SURE THEY ARE RUBBER GLOVES. Those mono-use latex ones are not suitable!

Concentrated H2O2 can cause real burns to your skin and blisters. For what concerns your eyes, there should be almost no risk, but in any case you can buy cheap plastic protection goggles. Since i doubt you have suitable dresses resistant to chemicals, just dress with something with long sleeves and long pants (this in case you would spill it on yourself) that can be easily taken off.

In case you spill it on yourself, washing fast under fast running water, and rubbing the skin with strenght and rubber should be a great help. But this WON'T HAPPEN IF YOU ARE CAREFUL.

Being over-scared is useless and potentialy worse. Just be relaxed and careful and nothing can EVER go wrong.

So another IMPORTANT thing to consider is using JUST the amount of chemicals you NEED. IE, in the link that was given for "cleaning" the keyboard parts they used an outrageous amount of chemical.

The main rule is: the little you use, the little mess you can do. Surely spilling on your pants a glass of h2o2 is not the same as spilling 2 liters, right?

Also, meddle with this process when you have the time and you are sober minded; as i stated using rubber gloves is a good idea, but if you are too distracted you might recover your piece with bare hands...

After you take back the plastic you have cleaned using gloves or another tool like Steel pincers, wash them carefully in water and let them dry. after washing them they are obviously not harmful anymore :D (H2O2 is a percentage dissolved in water)

If you want to trash the H2O2 you have used and doesn't want anymore, it's better NOT to throw it directly in your pipes or bathtub since it might damage the painting of it and maybe pipes too. The best is to throw the little you have used (i stated to use AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE, always) in a big basket of water and then after it being wastly diluted throwing it away.

last reccomendation, is to do the process being careful of not leaking the solution on the floor or furniture since h202 can damage it easily (expecially marble).

So far i can't think of anything else, if anyone have questions, please post them here so that i can help and answer.

karsten

PS i might have overlooked something, so ask! i wrote this in a hurry :)

[oldengineer]

PS i might have overlooked something, so ask! i wrote this in a hurry :)

Just a heads up for you guys...

To all potential 'users' you may wanna refer to this Material Safety Data Sheet, before you read / try Karstens so called "basic suggestions"

http://www.h2o2.com/intro/FMC_MSDS_40_to_60.pdf

[ASSEMbler]

Just watch your eyes, anything over 80% can blind you permanently.

[MrHard]

or you ca use this official Nintendo Product

http://cgi.ebay.it/Nintendo-NES-Kit-di-Pulizia-Console-giochi-CLEANING-KIT_W0QQitemZ200260396876QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item2 00260396876&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A758%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C2 40%3A1318#ebayphotohosting

[Alchy]

or you ca use this official Nintendo Product[/URL]That's just a cartridge cleaner. It won't do anything to faded console cases...

[Nicola]

Ok, we had a forum member at gamescollection.it who tried with a 36% solution on a yellowed SNES for hours. No results.
He think that it may be due to the fact that old computers are made of ABS 7801 and the SNES of PST 7801.

So, no results at all.

[RaZiel]

Don't know if it helps but I have had a few Genesis carts batteries go but on me, but luckily there are batteries that come with the tabs soldered into them.

[Taucias]

When offering advice on using chemicals, you might want a disclaimer on the bottom just to protect yourself.

IE:

Anything you try with chemicals using these guidelines is at your own risk and without liability of the poster. This information is intended to inform you of the process and risks, not as an absolute guide or as any guarantee of success. Should you use these guidelines, you do so with the understanding that other research should be conducted in addition to these guidelines before conducting any activities, and that these guidelines are intended for informational purposes only. The poster will not be held liable or responsible for any accidents or injuries either to property or person as a result of the use of these guidelines.

[karsten]

what you said, brother!

[PhreQuencYViii]

So the actual inside of the SNES turns yellow too?? I didn't know that.

What sucks is if anyone remembers the old SNES tank sim I mentioned I saw at an Army unit when I was a kid, it was yellow/brown on the bottom. Years ago I saw a similair looking SNES at a friends house and was like WHOMG THERE IT IS! Nope. I didn't know SNES turned yellow till I started hitting yard sales. Mine and my girlfriends are still normal, but her brother had fun coloring hers with Sharpie which were still trying to remove...

[ianoid]

I too have been concerned about leaving batteries in cartridges over the long term. I won't be playing 99% of my collection and I need to figure out if I have to take an aggressive stance on removing the batteries from my cart collection.

As well, I'm wondering which systems have batteries in them I should remove? And are there batteries that are guaranteed not to leak that I could replace them with? Or should I leave them without batteries? I was hoping to find or generate a master list.

Dead batteries are one thing, but corrosion spreading to a circuit board and killing a cart is another. This should be a concern for those who collect sealed games, yes?

[retro]

There's no such thing as a battery that won't leak, really. Especially if you don't want to hack the cart about. Don't forget, they usually use lithium batteries, which have a long life but will most likely leak eventually and it is nasty stuff.

[HardcoreOtaku]

Information about the SNES' discoloring plastic: http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/189
Great link here, thanks

[Cyantist]

Hey guys.

The batteries in my Saturn and Dreamcast are dead and constantly ask me to set the time upon bootup.

I dont use these two consoles that much (the saturn rarely and the DC doesnt need a battery in it as all memory is stored to VMU) and was wondering should i just take the batteries out and not bother to replace them or should i replace them and run the risk of the things going kaput sometime?

[karsten]

the saturn one you'll have to take off and put a new one, the dreamcast one is rechargeable.

[Cyantist]

Is it worth replacing the saturn one? and also is there any chance of the dreamcast one going defective? it only keeps the time.

[karsten]

the staurn one is supposed to last 2-3 years. concerning the dreamcast one if you are concerned and are not going to use it for a long time, you can take it out i guess

[modrobert]

This retr0bright gel seems to work fine without damaging the ABS plastic. It's not just any common bleach, TAED and UV light is also required for the wanted reaction to occur.

http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/


The activation process entails a reaction of the hydrogen peroxide with TAED to release peracetic acid, which is a fast-acting bleaching agent.

(CH3C(O))2NCH2CH2N(C(O)CH3)2 + H2O2 → (CH3C(O))2NCH2CH2NH(C(O)CH3) + CH3CO3H

This is what I've been talking about all along. The peracetic acid from the TAED is the magic part, the process doesn't work properly without it. The UV light destabilises the co-ordinate bond between the oxygen and the brominated flame retardant, so that the peracetic acid can release it and replace the oxygen with a hydrogen, effectively re-capping the polymer chain.