Japanese Lessons

[la-li-lu-le-lo]

I was surprised to find that there weren't any threads about this, or at least none discussing exactly what I wanted to know. I want to learn to speak (and write, though that is secondary) Japanese, and I was wondering if you guys could recommend any books and/or software designed to teach beginners like myself.

[ave]

Minna no Nihongo is pretty good, we had that at the university. I believe there is a version with Kanji too, mine unfortunately is not.

[la-li-lu-le-lo]

I should also mention I live in the US, and I don't believe that book is available here.

[ave]

Its a release by the japanese gaijin department (I don't know the exact spelling of the name) so you can order it all over the world, i.e. here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BOOK-Japanese-Language-Minna-no-Nihongo-Kanji-I_W0QQitemZ330078438778QQihZ014QQcategoryZ378QQrdZ 1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

There are also some good pictures of the actual lessons. My book looks quite different, we neither had to learn Kanji nor Kana (I did anyway^^).

[Tachikoma]

You really want to do lessons, I learnt more in a few weeks of going to a proper class for 2 hours a week on a Saturday, than I did with months of CD's/software/books etc. They compliment proper lessons brilliantly, but on their own I found they weren't as good.

[ave]

I agree with that.
At first I tried to learn with a book and CDs alone for more than a year, but there was nobody kicking your ass when you don't want to learn or who can answer you questions besides the lessons.

I went to the university for one year (no longer japanese class available here, unfortunately) and it threw me forward more than anything I did before. For example, I overtook my hard earned 6 book lessons (of 30) within 6 hours of class.

If possible, go to a university nearby or any other class! :)

[GaijinPunch]

live in japan > classes > books

Is there a JC close by? They are cheap, and a great place to start.

[la-li-lu-le-lo]

What is a JC? Anyway, you guys are probably right that taking classes is preferable, but unfortunately my college doesn't offer a Japanese language class, and I probably won't be able to take one for another year at least. I just want to get started in the mean time, so that it won't be completely new to me when (and if) I start taking formal classes.

[Tatsujin]

going with self-educating japanese is a very hard way to learn this language. i did it myself over years before. to get the basics it is OK, but when you reached a certain level, it's getting very bumpy on the autodidactic way.

[Japan-Games.com]

I use a website called Rosetta Stone. It's $49 a month. I live in Japan but I'm not one to sit and stare at a book unless I'm doing recreational reading. I find I used the online classes a lot and it's really helps to fill some gaps that I have.

It's designed for people to get a quick overview of the basics before going to Japan on business, for example. The system doesn't just list words for you to memorize. It uses pictures and spoken Japanese (sentences). You have trial and error in the beginning but you start to understand the speech patterns as the pictures change.

I think it would be a good addition to a book because you can hear the spoken Japanese. You can also choose to use kanji or romaji. The site can record your voice and match it with the proper pronunciation to see how close you are.

Overall I'm pretty impressed by the way it gives you so many different ways to learn the same thing. Helps if you're having trouble in one area or if you just naturally learn faster using a certain method.

[GaijinPunch]

JC = Junior College. Sounds like you've got at least that, but they don't offer it. Bummer.

[Tatsujin]

btw: when you reached a certain level, the best what you can do to improve your communication skillz by your own is reading some conversations. the best way to read some ordinary conversations is reading some mangas. any kind of mangas, just what you feel like to read and what's corresponding with your level of knowledge. furigana is advantageous.

[Yakumo]

as everyone said, books etc won't do you any good without real communication. Use books for reading and writing practice as well as checking grammer if you must.

Unlike Tatsujin and GaijinPunch I never really studied Japanese however I can speak just as well as them. How? by talking to people. That really is the key. My reading isn't a patch on GaijinPunch mind you.

Yakumo

[Tatsujin]

of course you're absolutely right yakumo. but my example was concerned to people who have not the possibility to talk to other day after day, as you could do it the past decade ;)
also i think, that my level isn't still close to yours. i also never went to any schools, so my experience is based as well on self-study and the "forced" use over the past 1 1/2 years since i live here. mostly durning my work, coz i'm far to lazy to study anything at home after a 12~14h japanese work-day as usually, exept of try to read some lectures before sleeping :)

[Yakumo]

I always thought you were at the same level GaijinPunch :) Yeah, you haven't been here as long as us other two so I really admire your skill level in such a short time. Hard study is one way to go as you said but I guess it all depends on how quick you want to be a good speaker.

Yakumo

[GaijinPunch]

Unlike Tatsujin and GaijinPunch I never really studied Japanese however I can speak just as well as them. How? by talking to people. That really is the key.

We might have to go head to head sometime. I generally pride myself on my talking... although two years of living in Hawaii definitely didn't help. Fucked my English up too.

Anyways, I probalby should've mentioned (at least in my experience) schools really don't help you speak much either. Listening, yes, but there's not a lot of speaking practice. Until you put some time in in Japan, your spoken level will probably suck balls. I know mine did. Took a solid year in Japan until I really felt comfortable talking to people I really didn't know (unless of course I had to).


any kind of mangas, just what you feel like to read and what's corresponding with your level of knowledge. furigana is advantageous.

Eventually you will have to promote yourself to books if you want to be reading "real" Japanese. Even newspapers aren't as multi-dimensional as books. Take this from the person who has started 2-3 Japanese books and never finished them (I suck at reading English books too though).

[la-li-lu-le-lo]

Anyways, I probalby should've mentioned (at least in my experience) schools really don't help you speak much either. Listening, yes, but there's not a lot of speaking practice. Until you put some time in in Japan, your spoken level will probably suck balls. I know mine did. Took a solid year in Japan until I really felt comfortable talking to people I really didn't know (unless of course I had to).

Yeah, I noticed the same thing when I was learning Spanish in high school. I know enough to get the gist of almost any printed material. However, I've been around people speaking Spanish quite a lot lately as I'm in New Mexico, and I usually can't understand more than a word or two out of a whole sentence. Then again, high-school Spanish classes were pretty shitty anyway. It would seem there's no real substitute to exposure to native speakers, but unfortunately I won't be going to Japan any time soon.

[Tatsujin]

@yakumo: thanx for the flower, but i don't think i'm that strong yet. still need some years:nod:

@GP: yeah, i know mangas doesn't reflect a proper japanese all the time, but every sentence in a manga is a conversation which is the important point i mean.
books or newspaper are mostly anectodes or wrote down informations/thoughts, and as you surely know, the japanese language is quite varying between talking and writing in the aspect of grammar.

[Yakumo]

We might have to go head to head sometime. I generally pride myself on my talking... although two years of living in Hawaii definitely didn't help. Fucked my English up too.As long as we don't talk about politics I should be ok :) Can't stand politics in English, never mind Japanese.

I know what you mean about Fucked up English. 8 years of living in an area with NO real English speakers has certainly taken it's toll on me. The only time I get to speak real English is on these boards or if I hang out with my western mates (twice a month if lucky).

Yakumo

[GaijinPunch]

I know what you mean about Fucked up English. 8 years of living in an area with NO real English speakers has certainly taken it's toll on me. The only time I get to speak real English is on these boards or if I hang out with my western mates (twice a month if lucky).


Not sure what's worse. Surrounded by proper improper English, or Pidgen. It's unbelievable. The poor Japanese students that go to Hawaii to learn English.

[Funk Buddy]

Oh come on, you didn't like hearing phrases like:

Gonna' grind some mash
That's some ono grind brah!
da kine
Hows it?
and my favorite "the stink eye"

[MottZilla]

All I'd really like to be able to do is read (for video games) and understand it spoken (for newer video games and for anime). I wouldn't really care much for speaking japanese. ;) Wouldn't have anyone to talk to anyway and I don't plan on going to Japan anytime soon. But it certainly would make importing things more fun to actually be able to read and understand it. It's on my list of things to do someday.

[GaijinPunch]

Oh come on, you didn't like hearing phrases like:

Gonna' grind some mash
That's some ono grind brah!
da kine
Hows it?
and my favorite "the stink eye"

Or even worse, "I never thought I was gonna see you today".

[GaijinPunch]

Guess this is a good thread to express my surprise & hapiness. Got my JLPT-1 test reults back today. passed, with 296 / 400. 74%. Pretty amazing considering I sucked massive cocks on the first two parts (68 & 63, each out of 100). Basically the 3rd part (which I got 165 / 200 on ) is considered the deal-breaker.

[Jamtex]

How easy / cheap(!) is to to get Japanese lessons in Tokyo? I am going to be staying there for 4 months in a long holiday and I will be staying with my fiancee who has demanded I learn more nihongo...

[Calpis]

JLPT-1 test reults back today. passed
:pray: :pray: :pray:

[GaijinPunch]

How easy / cheap(!) is to to get Japanese lessons in Tokyo? I am going to be staying there for 4 months in a long holiday and I will be staying with my fiancee who has demanded I learn more nihongo...

Depends on how good you want them. Google around. Very easy to get into a school. Curious though.. where are you from, and what type of visa will you be on? I assume you'll be on working holiday, as 4 months won't fly as an American unless you do the ole in and out.


:pray: :pray: :pray:

:thumbsup:

[Yakumo]

Congratulations GaijinPunch ! Have a paint on me !

Yakumo

[GaijinPunch]

Congratulations GaijinPunch ! Have a paint on me !


No paint stores around here. I might be able to find a pint if I look though.

[Yakumo]

oops. What a spaz I am.

Yakumo

[WolverineDK]

oops. What a spaz I am.

Yakumo

Yakumo-sama. I think I have said it, before . But here goes anyway, when you are in a country long enough, then you will in the end, think, speak, and dream in the language of the country. If you of course learn the language :) and in some ways you will probably feel more Japanese, than the opposite, just like William Addams did in the end. Where something like 2 years before he died, there Tokugave gave him permission to take a ship home, but he felt. That he had become a Japanese man, and what was he going home to ?

A filthy, and dirty England in every bad way, where he was a nobody. But in Japan he was a somebody, who was helping alot. But enough of my babbling :)

[GaijinPunch]

when you are in a country long enough, then you will in the end, think, speak, and dream in the language of the country.

Not without conscious practice. Japanese is not a language you will learn by accident. I can point you to quite a few people who've spent years (far more than me) in Japan and can speak far less than the average anime dork. That doesn't mean you have to take classes, but you will definitely have to put forth some type of effort.

[WolverineDK]

Not without conscious practice. Japanese is not a language you will learn by accident. I can point you to quite a few people who've spent years (far more than me) in Japan and can speak far less than the average anime dork. That doesn't mean you have to take classes, but you will definitely have to put forth some type of effort.

Ok then, but when I try to learn a language, then I feel the best way of learning a language, is also learning to think in the language I am learning. Meaning when I write English then I think English, and not just writing it. Since that is to me true bilinguality.

[GaijinPunch]

I would agree w/ that 100%. To speak the language, you have to think in that langauge (at least is the case w/ two REALLY different languages). You could probably go far thinking in English and speaking Spanish...even more so w/ another romantic language.

The point was, being in the country unfortunately doesn't help on it's own. You have to be in the country AND attempt to learn. Osmosis won't really work, other than for bare balls survival anyway.

[WolverineDK]

I would agree w/ that 100%. To speak the language, you have to think in that langauge (at least is the case w/ two REALLY different languages). You could probably go far thinking in English and speaking Spanish...even more so w/ another romantic language.

The point was, being in the country unfortunately doesn't help on it's own. You have to be in the country AND attempt to learn. Osmosis won't really work, other than for bare balls survival anyway.

Well, I think osmosis was the reason why I learned the English language, Since I only had about 3/4 year in public school of English(I was 11), but as a side interest. I had computer, and I bought some UK official Nintendo magazines, that I didn´t understand that much off, back then. But it was English words, and I saw how they fitted together in sentences. And I began listening to the English language. And well when I was 12 I had my first real hard nut to crack in English. Since I met a lovely black woman who didn´t speak Danish. But she was on vacation in Denmark and lived with a family. And I had my first real English conversation with her. With quite a few mistakes in my English language, but we understood eachother, since my brain worked in overdrive to translate what she was saying. But it was a fun time being with her for those few hours. And speaking English for the very first time without any kind of "safetynet".

Then some time afterwards I became quite "famous" for my knowledge in the English language.
Because I spoke with some Dutch people at the special school I was at.

But to me it is not important, to me it is more important to speak a language very clearly without alot of accent. Since an accent when it is heavy, is distorting the understanding from one person to the other. So if you met me one day, then you would probably hear either a copy of an American accent , or a British accent. With very little original Danish accent.

Ok, I think I will stop now . But I agree with you all the way.

[GaijinPunch]

I think certain non-Asian langaues can be "picked up". The asians ones just kind of suck for that, other than a few phrases. That's what I meant. Japanese has a pretty high barrier even for some people that really want to learn.

There was an article I read somewhere on the internet about picking it up w/o taking classes. Pretty good read.